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Massimo Tartaglia called him clown seconds before hitting him with an statue.
An attacker hurled a statuette at Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, striking the leader in the face at the end of a rally Sunday and leaving the stunned 73-year-old media mogul with a broken nose and bloodied mouth.
He suffered two broken teeth, a minor nose fracture and cuts to his lip after being struck with an object said to be a souvenir of the city's cathedral.
Mr Berlusconi, 73, tried to assure supporters afterwards he was OK but was taken to hospital for tests.
An Italian man said to have a history of mental problems has been arrested. Massimo Tartaglia, 42, had no previous criminal record, police were quoted as saying.
Italian Source Video
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Well, if anyone deserves such things, its him. Though its pretty sad that this event will probably just gain him sympathy from the public
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United States12607 Posts
hate to say it, but dude had it coming
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On December 14 2009 07:17 538 wrote:Well, if anyone deserves such things, its him. Though its pretty sad that this event will probably just gain him sympathy from the public 
My thoughts exactly. :/
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United States4796 Posts
Does he or does he not have connections to the Mafia..?
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I don't wish bad things to the man, I just wish he would get his slimy tentacles out of every orifice of my beloved italy.
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On December 14 2009 07:19 JWD wrote: hate to say it, but dude had it coming This.
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can you give more information?
I can't read the italian article
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Massimo Tartaglia is sooo gonna get whacked by the mafia now :p
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Damm, but the pictures are taken in such a way so as to make the damage look a lot more severe than it actually is...
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Sympathy for the attacker. I hope he will get minimal punishment. Preferably none.
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English Article: http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5h-gZ27SjSkQz0utROaRHDDidV2EgD9CIM4K80
+ Show Spoiler + ROME — An attacker hurled a statuette at Italian Premier Silvio Berlusconi, striking the leader in the face at the end of a rally Sunday and leaving the stunned 73-year-old media mogul with a broken nose and bloodied mouth.
Police said the 42-year-old man accused of attacking Berlusconi as he signed autographs in Milan was immediately taken into custody. The Italian leader was rushed to a hospital where he was being held overnight.
The attack occurred at a time when Berlusconi, one of Italy's wealthiest men, is embroiled in a sex scandal, a divorce case with his wife and public protests demanding his resignation.
TV showed the stunned leader with blood under his nose, on his mouth and under one eye as he was lifted to his feet by aides after Sunday's attack. He was hustled into the back of a car, but he immediately got out, apparently to show he was not badly injured.
But Berlusconi suffered a "small fracture" of the nose, two broken teeth and an injury to the inside and outside of his lip, said Paolo Klun, chief spokesman for Milan's San Raffaele Hospital.
"He wanted to go home right away, but he is being held as a precaution" for overnight observation, Klun said. The premier suffered "a significant bruising trauma from this blunt instrument that was hurled at him."
Police first said it appeared the assailant had punched Berlusconi in the face while clutching a souvenir statue of Milan's Duomo, or cathedral with gargoyles that symbolizes the city. But state TV later showed a video, somewhat blurry, of what appeared to be the attacker's hand coming close to Berlusconi's face while holding the statue, then letting go of the object at the last minute as it hit the premier's face.
Berlusconi was "very shaken and demoralized," Klun said. "He didn't understand very well what happened to him."
Immediately after the attack, the premier, after getting out of the car and without saying a word, was pulled back into the vehicle by bodyguards.
The attack occurred after Berlusconi had just finished delivering a long, vigorous speech at the rally to thousands of applauding supporters from his Freedom People party in the square outside the cathedral at about 6:30 p.m.
Officials at Milan's police headquarters said they didn't immediately know what the miniature Duomo statue was made of.
Berlusconi's spokesman, speaking by telephone from the emergency room from San Raffaele hospital where the premier was taken, told Sky TG24 TV that doctors had decided to keep Berlusconi in the hospital overnight for observation. "We'll see what the doctors say tomorrow morning," spokesman Paolo Bonauiti told Sky. The exams of his jaw area included a CT scan, Bonaiuti said.
Police identified the man they were questioning as Massimo Tartaglia, 42. They said Tartaglia didn't have any criminal record but had suffered psychological problems in the past.
Defense Minister Ignazio La Russa told reporters he ran to help police hustle the man away from the scene of the attack "to keep him from a possible lynching from the crowd."
The assailant "was a man who had mixed in with the people who were applauding (Berlusconi), shaking his hand," La Russa said.
The attack occurred at a difficult political time for Berlusconi, who has been plagued by scandals.
On Dec. 5, tens of thousands of Italians fed up with the premier marched peacefully through Rome to demand his resignation.
The demonstrators expressed dismay over what they see as the businessman's conflict of interests, citing repeated government-backed laws they contend were tailored to help shield Berlusconi from prosecution in cases involving his media, real estate and sports empire. Berlusconi claims the laws benefit all citizens.
Other critics cite Berlusconi's sex scandals.
Berlusconi's wife is divorcing him after complaining about his infatuation with young women. A southern Italian businessman has told investigators he procured some 30 attractive young women for parties and dinners at the premier's Rome residence and Sardinian villa. Among the guests was a high-end prostitute who claimed she slept with Berlusconi. The premier has denied ever paying for sex.
Berlusconi has steadfastly denied any wrongdoing and blames his judicial woes on prosecutors he claims sympathize with the opposition left. Several of the cases either ended in acquittal or were dropped when limitation statutes expired. Others are pending.
On Sunday, Italian President Giorgio Napolitano condemned the "grave and unusual gesture of aggression" against Berlusconi. In a statement, the head of state renewed his plea that conflicting political points of view be expressed "within the limits of responsible self-control" and while "preventing and heading off every impulse and spiral of violence."
Associated Press reporter Giovanni Fontana contributed to this report from Rome.
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On December 14 2009 07:24 .risingdragoon wrote: can you give more information?
I can't read the italian article was giving an autograph, got hit with a knuckles, nothing much to say about it
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that guy is going to have a bad night (talking about Tartaglia)
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Most of the replies are good to quote and answer to:
On December 14 2009 07:17 538 wrote:Well, if anyone deserves such things, its him. Though its pretty sad that this event will probably just gain him sympathy from the public 
This had already been speculated long before the incident, and it is what is happening. Although the aggressor was a mentally insane person and doesn't appear to have any open connection with any politic party the use of violence is being used as an accusation to defend Berlusconi.
On December 14 2009 07:21 El.Divino wrote: Does he or does he not have connections to the Mafia..?
Many past italian presidents did, but what in the USA are called Guidos (openly supporting fascism and actively supporting Berlusconi) see the mafia as something "fun" and as an example to follow. Berlusconi, though, is more commonly considered to have reached his position through Freemasonry support.
Emblematic was the past scandal of Vallettopoli, which during 2006-2007 (can't precisely remember the year) saw famous Paparazzi Fabrizio Corona become an icon who would bash italian celebrities and hide behind the claim of being "protected", and had thousands of admirers.
On December 14 2009 07:24 DwmC_Foefen wrote: Massimo Tartaglia is sooo gonna get whacked by the mafia now :p
He most likely won't. A joke which is quickly spreading is that Tartaglia is going to be processed while Berlusconi is still free. (Berlusconi is guilty of having changed laws to among other things protect Mediaset, his TV, and Mondadori, book publishing brand).
On December 14 2009 07:24 bITt.mAN wrote: Damm, but the pictures are taken in such a way so as to make the damage look a lot more severe than it actually is...
He is just old, you don't need to work in an hospital to see how badly old ladies can come out of a fall from the stairs.
My 2 cents: it was just bound to happen. Italy's political state is not known to foreign countries because his gags draw the attention away, but it's pretty much a dollhouse with puppet masters left and right.
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On December 14 2009 08:14 r33k wrote: Many past italian presidents did, but what in the USA are called Guidos (openly supporting fascism and actively supporting Berlusconi) see the mafia as something "fun" and as an example to follow. Berlusconi, though, is more commonly considered to have reached his position through Freemasonry support. ...the fuck
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Wow, Demonid is back and this asshole gets attacked. Christmas came early this year.
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aaand his ratings have just skyrocketed... or so i guess, since every personal attack/misfortune buys any political figure lotsa rating points...
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United States42691 Posts
I think Berlusconi is kinda funny. Italy is such a bad democracy and the only time it is at all politically stable is under an oligarch. Fun times. It's not his fault Italians can't rule themselves, he's a symptom, not the disease.
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I hope you understand that's an actor. Unfortunately the real one is not that different ._.
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So what did he do to provoke the attack? Was he playing protoss?
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
It may never be right to punch somebody in the face, but...
If it were, Berlusconi would be at the top of the list of deserving people.
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No sympathy here. The guy got what he deserved...
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Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone hate this guy so much?
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United States42691 Posts
On December 14 2009 12:11 decafchicken wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone hate this guy so much? He's a dictator.
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On December 14 2009 12:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 12:11 decafchicken wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone hate this guy so much? He's a dictator. He's also obscenely rich and routinely fucks girls like 50 years younger than him.
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United States42691 Posts
On December 14 2009 12:49 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 12:48 KwarK wrote:On December 14 2009 12:11 decafchicken wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone hate this guy so much? He's a dictator. He's also obscenely rich and routinely fucks girls like 50 years younger than him. Yeah but we're talking about why people hate him.
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On December 14 2009 12:55 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 12:49 jello_biafra wrote:On December 14 2009 12:48 KwarK wrote:On December 14 2009 12:11 decafchicken wrote: Pardon my ignorance, but why does everyone hate this guy so much? He's a dictator. He's also obscenely rich and routinely fucks girls like 50 years younger than him. Yeah but we're talking about why people hate him.
Must be jealousy then. Or maybe that he's a dictator. Or maybe he just acts like a douchebag.
I know absolutely nothing about this Italian guy but I've pieced this information together after a minute of reading the thread.
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Rofl he's not a dictator nor he controls information like foreign journalists say. Actually almost every single piece of paper you can read here is against him. He was although involved in investing money for italian mafia in northern Italy years ago (and like the 75% of italian politicians are/were involved with mafia, sigh) and makes laws ad personam to protect himself from the judges who want to incriminate him. But seriously how can you even think he's a dictator? We might actually need one right now.
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On December 14 2009 10:00 Draconizard wrote:...guidos? You mean these guidos? Guido was originally a derogatory term for italian working class i think.
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On December 14 2009 13:24 iG.ClouD wrote: Rofl he's not a dictator nor he controls information like foreign journalists say. Actually almost every single piece of paper you can read here is against him. He was although involved in investing money for italian mafia in northern Italy years ago (and like the 75% of italian politicians are/were involved with mafia, sigh) and makes laws ad personam to protect himself from the judges who want to incriminate him. But seriously how can you even think he's a dictator? We might actually need one right now.
To be honest that does sound kind of like a Dictator.
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Lol berlusconni a dictator ?
saying hes a dictator is like saying a kid on diapers is darth vader.
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On December 14 2009 13:31 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 13:24 iG.ClouD wrote: Rofl he's not a dictator nor he controls information like foreign journalists say. Actually almost every single piece of paper you can read here is against him. He was although involved in investing money for italian mafia in northern Italy years ago (and like the 75% of italian politicians are/were involved with mafia, sigh) and makes laws ad personam to protect himself from the judges who want to incriminate him. But seriously how can you even think he's a dictator? We might actually need one right now. To be honest that does sound kind of like a Dictator. Your own concept of dictator doesn't match the common meaning of the word sir :D Mussolini was a dictator, Berlusconi is just a guy using the stupidity and ignorance and lack of any form of morals of italian citizens to his own interest.
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United States42691 Posts
Ok, I'll put it like this. He's a multibillionaire media tychoon who leads the dominant political party in a system of political anarchy. There is no unified political opposition and despite his past filled with shady dealings and corruption he is above the law.
You can blame the Italian political system for his status (as I do) but you can't deny it.
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Actually anyone with a brain and common sense or just an average education can't like him for the above reasons, but that doesn't make him a dictator. If there was the possibility of having a dictator in Italy the country wouldn't be part of the 3rd world now.
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On December 14 2009 13:40 iG.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 13:31 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:On December 14 2009 13:24 iG.ClouD wrote: Rofl he's not a dictator nor he controls information like foreign journalists say. Actually almost every single piece of paper you can read here is against him. He was although involved in investing money for italian mafia in northern Italy years ago (and like the 75% of italian politicians are/were involved with mafia, sigh) and makes laws ad personam to protect himself from the judges who want to incriminate him. But seriously how can you even think he's a dictator? We might actually need one right now. To be honest that does sound kind of like a Dictator. Your own concept of dictator doesn't match the common meaning of the word sir :D Mussolini was a dictator, Berlusconi is just a guy using the stupidity and ignorance and lack of any form of morals of italian citizens to his own interest.
True.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 14 2009 13:44 iG.ClouD wrote: Actually anyone with a brain and common sense or just an average education can't like him for the above reasons, but that doesn't make him a dictator. If there was the possibility of having a dictator in Italy the country wouldn't be part of the 3rd world now.
I've actually never heard someone from Italy speak about Berlusconi before, but from the US, (and the UK judging by KwarK's comments) we find him authoritarian, mean-spirited, and ridiculous. It baffles us over here that such insane political anarchy could exist in which this man is the leader of a country.
I don't think we understand in the US quite why Italy is so fractured as well, (obviously the history of the Italian region is one of independent cities and minor kingdoms) after all, we may not always agree in New York with the states of the former confederacy, but we just voted with several of them on our first African-American president, and at the very least we work together on larger issues.
Yet it always seems that the disconnect between your North and South is much more difficult to bridge, and we find it hard to imagine why. But that seems to be the root cause of your political dysfunction.
But at least from a foreign standpoint, what you call democracy would be called anarchy or oligarchy here in the states. I wouldn't call Berlusconi a dictator- otherwise he wouldn't get punched in the face - but I don't think he would mind being one.
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The best news iv'e herd in fucking forever, he is an evil bastard and he's sailing Italy down the river for the fat cats, I almost got a semi looking at the pics.
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dude completely had it coming to him.
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In response to tree.hugger: the only and real problem we have in Italy right now is the power mafia holds over the country. You won't hear this from anyone else than me probably, but it is like that because italians are pitiful, superficial, ignorant, close minded people who care only about their little self interest and aren't able to see things in a bigger perspective. It's obvious criminality can generate and grow powerful in such a social environment, especially in southern Italy, which doesn't have much of an own identity and was used to be dominated by many different cultures. Speaking about Berlusconi, foreign people tend to think he's a problem or a threat to italian democracy. But he's not. He was democraticaly elected by the majority of the country, and trust me the sad thing is that there was no valid alternative. To put it bluntly Italy is just a shithole populated by retards. You can't leave retards alone in their decisions because they will most probably do the wrong thing every single time. And Italy is the proof of that. The only government not falling apart before 4 years since 19th century was the one led by Berlusconi and his ridicolous badly patched together right wing. Funny isn't it? So what I say basically is that democracy doesn't work in Italy because italian people can't see anything that goes past their nose. It's just beyond them and their poor culture. If there was a dictatorship in Italy or something nearly similar to that the country would be much healthier socially and economically than it is now.
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From everything ive heard about the guy, he deserves much worse.
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United States42691 Posts
I find him hilarious but that's probably just because it's not happening in my country.
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Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On December 14 2009 14:31 iG.ClouD wrote: In response to tree.hugger: the only and real problem we have in Italy right now is the power mafia holds over the country. You won't hear this from anyone else than me probably, but it is like that because italians are pityful, superficial, ignorant, close minded people who care only about their little self interest and aren't able to see things in a bigger perspective. It's obvious criminality can generate and grow powerful in such a social environment, especially in southern Italy, which doesn't have much of an own identity and was used to be dominated by many different cultures. Speaking about Berlusconi, foreign people tend to think he's a problem or a threat to italian democracy. But he's not. He was democraticaly elected by the majority of the country, and trust me the sad thing is that there was no valid alternative. To put it bluntly Italy is just a shithole populated by retards. You can't leave retards alone in their decisions because they will most probably do the wrong thing every single time. And Italy is the proof of that. The only government not falling apart before 4 years since 20th century was the one led by Berlusconi and his ridicolous badly patched together right wing. Funny isn't it? So what I say basically is that democracy doesn't work in Italy because italian people aren't able to put into perspective anything that goes beyond their nose. If there was a dictatorship in Italy or something nearly similar to that the country would be much healthier socially and economically than it is now.
I'm interested.
Perhaps because it's something we value so highly in America, but I think it's very interesting what you say about democracy not being able to work in Italy. I can say that we complain about stupid people voting idiots into office all the time here in the US, but we'd rather have imperfect decisions made by imperfect elected officials than by someone like Mr. Berlusconi, or any other kind of fiat.
I've never been to your wonderful country (I've seen it though, across the Swiss border) but I find it implausible that your voters are any different than ours. I'd bet they know a little more geography to start off with.
I agree with your analysis that Berlusconi was voted in because he represented a modicum of stability, and was the best alternative to Prodi and the neutered left, but I'd say that has little to do with the electorate as a whole, and more to do with party structures that discourage creativity and new ideas, and a deeply fractured party system which is highly beholden to various regions.
What do you think Italy needs to do to get out of it's stagnation? Is there any trans-formative political figure you have faith in?
On December 14 2009 14:41 KwarK wrote: I find him hilarious but that's probably just because it's not happening in my country.
Me too, and probably for the same reasons. Gaddafi too, because he's renounced nuclear bombs and terrorism, and is now trying to get Italian women to convert to Islam.
Can you imagine if Berlusconi and Gaddafi switched countries?
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Am I the only one who read the thread title and thought it was going to be a pokemon joke?
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I love him.. as a comedian.
"But Berlusconi said that, even in a militarized state, crimes like rape can happen. "You can't consider deploying a force that would be sufficient to prevent the risk," the ANSA and Apcom news agencies quoted him as saying. "We would have to have so many soldiers because our women are so beautiful."" ... Berlusconi, in an effort to explain himself, said he was complimenting Italian women "because there are only about 100,000 people in law enforcement, while there are millions of beautiful women."
SRC: http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=6726978
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On December 14 2009 14:45 tree.hugger wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 14:31 iG.ClouD wrote: In response to tree.hugger: the only and real problem we have in Italy right now is the power mafia holds over the country. You won't hear this from anyone else than me probably, but it is like that because italians are pityful, superficial, ignorant, close minded people who care only about their little self interest and aren't able to see things in a bigger perspective. It's obvious criminality can generate and grow powerful in such a social environment, especially in southern Italy, which doesn't have much of an own identity and was used to be dominated by many different cultures. Speaking about Berlusconi, foreign people tend to think he's a problem or a threat to italian democracy. But he's not. He was democraticaly elected by the majority of the country, and trust me the sad thing is that there was no valid alternative. To put it bluntly Italy is just a shithole populated by retards. You can't leave retards alone in their decisions because they will most probably do the wrong thing every single time. And Italy is the proof of that. The only government not falling apart before 4 years since 20th century was the one led by Berlusconi and his ridicolous badly patched together right wing. Funny isn't it? So what I say basically is that democracy doesn't work in Italy because italian people aren't able to put into perspective anything that goes beyond their nose. If there was a dictatorship in Italy or something nearly similar to that the country would be much healthier socially and economically than it is now. I'm interested. Perhaps because it's something we value so highly in America, but I think it's very interesting what you say about democracy not being able to work in Italy. I can say that we complain about stupid people voting idiots into office all the time here in the US, but we'd rather have imperfect decisions made by imperfect elected officials than by someone like Mr. Berlusconi, or any other kind of fiat. I've never been to your wonderful country (I've seen it though, across the Swiss border) but I find it implausible that your voters are any different than ours. I'd bet they know a little more geography to start off with. I agree with your analysis that Berlusconi was voted in because he represented a modicum of stability, and was the best alternative to Prodi and the neutered left, but I'd say that has little to do with the electorate as a whole, and more to do with party structures that discourage creativity and new ideas, and a deeply fractured party system which is highly beholden to various regions. What do you think Italy needs to do to get out of it's stagnation? Is there any trans-formative political figure you have faith in? Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 14:41 KwarK wrote: I find him hilarious but that's probably just because it's not happening in my country. Me too, and probably for the same reasons. Gaddafi too, because he's renounced nuclear bombs and terrorism, and is now trying to get Italian women to convert to Islam. Can you imagine if Berlusconi and Gaddafi switched countries? To put a comparison for a better understanding of italian situation watch the film Idiocracy. The film itself is kind of humorous but it explains perfectly what's going on in this country. For a democracy to work properly all you need is people who share a moral code that fit the model. The stupidest of the american citizens holds the same amount of voting power as the most enlightened one just because they share one thing: an easily understandable moral code that shares the same roots as the country and evolves from time to time along with it. For example if your prime minister lies about his involvement with criminality and you have the proofs of that what are you supposed to feel as a democratic citizen? Indignation of course, and you don't have to be particulary smart or cultured to know that there are things which are plain wrong if you live in a democratic country. Italian politicians can do or say whatever they can because italians lack any sort of moral education. After Mussolini admitted to have ordered multiple murders the crowd applauded him. Just because italians lacked, and still lack for the most part, any form of moral education. The same is happening with Berlusconi, he was involved with mafia, he runs the country only for his own self interest, he can spit on family values, but very few people feel indignated. And that's pretty much the reason democracy can't work, hasn't worked, and won't work in Italy as well and effectively as it does for USA. That's why I think Italy can't get out of its stagnation through democracy. The only kind of government that worked well for this country (economically and technologically-wise) was the dictatorship under Mussolini. So no, I don't think any politician right now could represent what Italy needs to get through this stagnation. Italy will just slowly become third world and won't be considered anymore a civilized country in a very short time.
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On December 14 2009 15:42 iG.ClouD wrote:Show nested quote +On December 14 2009 14:45 tree.hugger wrote:On December 14 2009 14:31 iG.ClouD wrote: In response to tree.hugger: the only and real problem we have in Italy right now is the power mafia holds over the country. You won't hear this from anyone else than me probably, but it is like that because italians are pityful, superficial, ignorant, close minded people who care only about their little self interest and aren't able to see things in a bigger perspective. It's obvious criminality can generate and grow powerful in such a social environment, especially in southern Italy, which doesn't have much of an own identity and was used to be dominated by many different cultures. Speaking about Berlusconi, foreign people tend to think he's a problem or a threat to italian democracy. But he's not. He was democraticaly elected by the majority of the country, and trust me the sad thing is that there was no valid alternative. To put it bluntly Italy is just a shithole populated by retards. You can't leave retards alone in their decisions because they will most probably do the wrong thing every single time. And Italy is the proof of that. The only government not falling apart before 4 years since 20th century was the one led by Berlusconi and his ridicolous badly patched together right wing. Funny isn't it? So what I say basically is that democracy doesn't work in Italy because italian people aren't able to put into perspective anything that goes beyond their nose. If there was a dictatorship in Italy or something nearly similar to that the country would be much healthier socially and economically than it is now. I'm interested. Perhaps because it's something we value so highly in America, but I think it's very interesting what you say about democracy not being able to work in Italy. I can say that we complain about stupid people voting idiots into office all the time here in the US, but we'd rather have imperfect decisions made by imperfect elected officials than by someone like Mr. Berlusconi, or any other kind of fiat. I've never been to your wonderful country (I've seen it though, across the Swiss border) but I find it implausible that your voters are any different than ours. I'd bet they know a little more geography to start off with. I agree with your analysis that Berlusconi was voted in because he represented a modicum of stability, and was the best alternative to Prodi and the neutered left, but I'd say that has little to do with the electorate as a whole, and more to do with party structures that discourage creativity and new ideas, and a deeply fractured party system which is highly beholden to various regions. What do you think Italy needs to do to get out of it's stagnation? Is there any trans-formative political figure you have faith in? On December 14 2009 14:41 KwarK wrote: I find him hilarious but that's probably just because it's not happening in my country. Me too, and probably for the same reasons. Gaddafi too, because he's renounced nuclear bombs and terrorism, and is now trying to get Italian women to convert to Islam. Can you imagine if Berlusconi and Gaddafi switched countries? To put a comparison for a better understanding of italian situation watch the film Idiocracy. The film itself is kind of humorous but it explains perfectly what's going on in this country. For a democracy to work properly all you need is people who share a moral code that fit the model. The stupidest of the american citizens holds the same amount of voting power as the most enlightened one just because they share one thing: an easily understandable moral code that shares the same roots as the country and evolves from time to time along with it. For example if your prime minister lies about his involvement with criminality and you have the proofs of that what are you supposed to feel as a democratic citizen? Indignation of course, and you don't have to be particulary smart or cultured to know that there are things which are plain wrong if you live in a democratic country. Italian politicians can do or say whatever they can because italians lack any sort of moral education. After Mussolini admitted to have ordered multiple murders the crowd applauded him. Just because italians lacked, and still lack for the most part, any form of moral education. The same is happening with Berlusconi, he was involved with mafia, he runs the country only for his own self interest, he can spit on family values, but very few people feel indignated. And that's pretty much the reason democracy can't work, hasn't worked, and won't work in Italy as well and effectively as it does for USA. That's why I think Italy can't get out of its stagnation through democracy. The only kind of government that worked well for this country (economically and technologically-wise) was the dictatorship under Mussolini. So no, I don't think any politician right now could represent what Italy needs to get through this stagnation. Italy will just slowly become third world and won't be considered anymore a civilized country in a very short time.
So, what you are saying is that Berlusconi's problem is not that he is authoritarian but that he isn't authoritarian enough?
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Now someone to do this to Sarkozy plz.
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ok now i feel sorry for him. this guy is a hero
edit: "I hope you understand that's an actor. Unfortunately the real one is not that different ._."
damn. than hit him with more statues
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On December 14 2009 15:42 iG.ClouD wrote: To put a comparison for a better understanding of italian situation watch the film Idiocracy. The film itself is kind of humorous but it explains perfectly what's going on in this country. For a democracy to work properly all you need is people who share a moral code that fit the model. The stupidest of the american citizens holds the same amount of voting power as the most enlightened one just because they share one thing: an easily understandable moral code that shares the same roots as the country and evolves from time to time along with it. For example if your prime minister lies about his involvement with criminality and you have the proofs of that what are you supposed to feel as a democratic citizen? Indignation of course, and you don't have to be particulary smart or cultured to know that there are things which are plain wrong if you live in a democratic country. Italian politicians can do or say whatever they can because italians lack any sort of moral education. After Mussolini admitted to have ordered multiple murders the crowd applauded him. Just because italians lacked, and still lack for the most part, any form of moral education. The same is happening with Berlusconi, he was involved with mafia, he runs the country only for his own self interest, he can spit on family values, but very few people feel indignated. And that's pretty much the reason democracy can't work, hasn't worked, and won't work in Italy as well and effectively as it does for USA. This isn't the main reason, at all.
When Berlusconi talk about himself, he doesn't talk about a man involved with mafia or a man who runs the country only for his own interests. He doesn't talk about the origin of his money, nor about his big interests conficts. Surely the morality of italians people is degenerated in the last years, but not enough to allow him to present himself the way he really is and gain the consensus anyway.
What he is telling, everytime he has the oppurtunity to, is the story of his persecution by the opposition, by magistrature, by media, by the bad comunists hidded among people (and last but not least, by mafia... LOL). He is presenting himself like the only man caring about the insterest of italians, the man who resolved the trash-emergengy in Campania and the man who build homes for the displaced of Abruzzo. When he talk, he doesn't try to exploit the absence of morality of italians people, he tries to exploit their IGNORANCE. It's different.
On December 14 2009 13:24 iG.ClouD wrote: Rofl he's not a dictator nor he controls information like foreign journalists say. Actually almost every single piece of paper you can read here is against him.
That's false, and I see this as the main problem instead. What papers are you reading?? What TV news are you watching??? Maybe he isn't a dictator in the common sense of the term, and he can't censor the informations he doesn't like at will, but ALL of the public media is heavily influenced by him. HEAVILY. You talk about italians with "a brain and common sense or just an average education", I think this isn't enough. They must be able to KNOW about what's happening, before all, or their average education is simply useless.
Internet is the only way, rare exceptions aside, to really be informed nowadays in Italy. If you want a reason for why democracy seems to fail in our country, there it is.
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