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Hey Y'all
I'm conducting a little knowledge elicitation experience for a graduate class in human factor research method I'm taking. I'm in need a few Starcraft experts to answer a few questions. If you have a few spare moments, and you consider yourself fairly well versed in Starcraft could you be so kind as to answer these questions. It may be better if you email me directly at cbranje @ gmail.com to keep answers private, it may not be appropriate to reveal your age publicly if you are under 18. If you're over 18 you could post in the forum directly also I suppose, it may make for some good conversation.
Thanks in advance!
Here are the questions
1) Your age
2) Number of hours experience with Starcraft (approximate)
3) What level of expert you consider yourself
(beginner, advanced, intermediate, expert, professional)
4) Could you please sort the and rank the following concepts in order of importance they are to winning a Starcraft match, the first in the list or (1) being the most important and the last on the list (9) being the least important. I've put the concept name and then a very brief definition underneath. The concepts are below listed in no particular order.
Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
Defense
Defensive actions or plans
Offense
Offensive actions or plans
Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
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That's all!
I'd really appreciate your input, it would help me out tremendously.
Thanks!
Carmen
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United States43808 Posts
There is no way you can order those concepts in importance because all the ones that actually directly relate to the game (rather than the execution (hotkeys)) are essential. You can't have an offensive plan without scouting etc.
It's like asking which is more important in football, running or kicking the ball.
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1. 19
2. Per day..? 5-6
3. intermediate (C)
1. Thinking about the Opponents Strategy
2. Resource Management
3. Exploration
4. Recruitment (Macro)
5. Offense
6. Interface management
7. Upgrading
8. Defense
9. Building Management (Placement?)
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1) 18
2) 7 years, I have no idea how many hours over those years
3) Advanced?
4)
That list is very difficult to use. Offense and Defense all fall under the same overall gameplan. Scouting and Thinking about what your opponent will do both affect that gameplan. Building management doesn't really exist. At the highest level of play, strategy is more important than interface management because everyone has goon hotkeys, micro, macro, etc. and strategy takes a larger role. However at low levels the mechanical side is very important. Resource management and recruitment both fall under the same set of actions to a starcraft player, securing and then spending resources via "macro". And upgrades happen but aren't really that important. They might fall under a gameplan to try to secure an advantage, but really they just sorta "happen", they aren't thaat crucial.
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Hmmm interesting point. Perhaps importance isn't the best word to use.
By no means is this conclusive, but I've done some video analysis of a couple of matches, and there seems to be consistent pattern of how a player's attention is divided up between those concepts or task groups. Perhaps I should ask, rank them in order of what percentage of game time should be allotted to each category? So rank 1 would have the most game time devoted to it and category 10 would have the least time. Would that be more appropriate?
Thanks for your input!
Carmen
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allow it! he must have something running.
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i assume by exploration you mean scouting your opponent yes? because "exploring" the map is pretty useless..
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On November 21 2009 09:53 lazz wrote:
i assume by exploration you mean scouting your opponent yes? because "exploring" the map is pretty useless..
Yes, scouting might be a more appropriate term.
Thanks!
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I think Building Management should include:
1. Timing of building infrastructures
2. Position of infrastructures
instead of...repairing and..moving(?) buildings
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I have a feeling this person is extremely lacking in starcraft experience.
I base this off the fact this is their 1st post
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On November 21 2009 09:57 KH1031 wrote:
I think Building Management should include:
1. Timing of building infrastructures
2. Position of infrastructures
instead of...repairing and..moving(?) buildings
Agreed, but I think they're are implicit in the act of building the buildings, ie you can't build a building with a build time and position. But yes, you are correct these aspect are part of building managment.
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On November 21 2009 10:00 Carthac wrote:
I have a feeling this person is extremely lacking in starcraft experience.
I base this off the fact this is their 1st post
I've owned the game since '99 and played it fair extensively for several years. I'd estimate I have a 1000 or so hours playing the game, although I admit I have played it much in the last few years.
Carmen
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On November 21 2009 10:08 Carmen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2009 10:00 Carthac wrote:
I have a feeling this person is extremely lacking in starcraft experience.
I base this off the fact this is their 1st post I've owned the game since '99 and played it fair extensively for several years. I'd estimate I have a 1000 or so hours playing the game, although I admit I have played it much in the last few years. Carmen
then you should understand why your survey is impossible to answer.
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On November 21 2009 09:34 Carmen wrote:
Could you please sort the and rank the following concepts in order of importance they are to winning a Starcraft match, the first in the list or (1) being the most important and the last on the list (9) being the least important. I've put the concept name and then a very brief definition underneath. The concepts are below listed in no particular order.
Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
Defense
Defensive actions or plans
Offense
Offensive actions or plans
Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
Carmen
This is retarded. What's more important: units, plans, hotkeys, or management? The answer is you need all of these in every game! You can't win if you don't *ahem* recruit military units. You can't win if you don't have a plan. You can maximize utility without upgrades and hotkeys. And you can't do anything if you don't manage the dough.
Liken this to the human body:
What's more important? Nevous system? The brain? The heart? Thumbs?
Stupid. That that's with 5 O's.
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On November 21 2009 10:09 keepITup wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2009 10:08 Carmen wrote:On November 21 2009 10:00 Carthac wrote:
I have a feeling this person is extremely lacking in starcraft experience.
I base this off the fact this is their 1st post I've owned the game since '99 and played it fair extensively for several years. I'd estimate I have a 1000 or so hours playing the game, although I admit I have played it much in the last few years. Carmen then you should understand why your survey is impossible to answer.
Thank you for your input.
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The two big things I believe you are missing are the race matchups, and the type of map that is played on.
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On November 21 2009 10:08 Carmen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2009 10:00 Carthac wrote:
I have a feeling this person is extremely lacking in starcraft experience.
I base this off the fact this is their 1st post I've owned the game since '99 and played it fair extensively for several years. I'd estimate I have a 1000 or so hours playing the game, although I admit I have played it much in the last few years. Carmen
Quoted for the COMPLETE wrong way to act when you are asking a group of experienced, typically intelligent players, to answer a survey on a game which you have 0 clue to play.
I can not speak for everyone, but you will receive no more help from me.
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On November 21 2009 10:11 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
What's more important? Nevous system? The brain? The heart? Thumbs?
Stupid. That that's with 5 O's.
I would rank these,
1) brain
2) heart
3) nervous system
4) thumbs
Its an abstract question, but the survey is most definitely possible to complete.
But honestly, I'm really appreciating all of you criticisms, its helping me out tremdously.
Please keep it coming,
Carmen
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On November 21 2009 10:12 Carthac wrote:
The two big things I believe you are missing are the race matchups, and the type of map that is played on.
Good point, but these are not things you can attend to during the match. They certainly are aspects that affect the game, but in my particular study I'm looking at things experts do during the game itself.
Thanks,
Carmen
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1) 20
2) ~200 hours
3) advanced
4)
1. Resource Management
2. Recruitment
3. Interface management
4. Offense
5. Defense
6. Exploration
7. Thinking about the opponents strategy
8. Upgrading
9. Building Management
These choices for important factors aren't easy to put in a list. You need to have decent mechanical ability to be able to build your economy and forces, as well as scout. If you can't do these tasks at at least a basic level, then you cannot execute the strategic decisions you make based on interpreted information. Once you achieve a competent skill level with mechanical ability, it gradually becomes more important to properly scout, and then make proper strategic decisions.
I think a better set of points to organize based on importance would be:
-Economic Management (Macro, or the skill & speed with which you use the game interface to control your Economy)
-Unit Management (Micro, or the skill & speed with which you use the game interface to control your forces)
-Scouting (Information Gathering)
-Strategic Macro Decision Making (Which Units, Tech, Upgrades, Expansions, Defenses to get)
-Strategic Micro Decision Making (Harassment, Positioning, Timing of attacks, Ability usage etc.)
-Mindset (Confidence, determination, staying calm and thinking clearly).
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1) 22
2) 1000
3) expert
1)Resource Management (Wins by a loophole since not having enough workers is the worst thing you could do, but it only applies to early beginners)
2)Recruitment
3)Exploration (We can agree that seeing opponent's strategy is better than "thinking about opponent's strategy")
4)Offense
5)Defense
6)Upgrades
7)Building Management
8)Thinking about Opponent's strategy (Games are so ABC123 these days that not a lot of thought is required
9) Interface management (Having good micro/macro is more important than having good apm for example
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Wow thanks guys!! In spite of what some posters are saying, this task is possible to do, and I'm getting from great results so far.
Please keep it up!!
Thanks again,
Carmen
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1) 22
2) Total? 8000-10,000 hours? Maybe even higher.
3) Advanced
1) Resources Management - this is usually a non issue except with beginning players because the first thing you learn when you start playing is to "never stop building workers".
2) Recruitment - Macro/Micro
3) Exploration - If you keep your scouting up then "thinking about opponents strategy" really doesn't matter because all the counters are basic knowledge and you know what you should do immediately.
4) Offense - The best defense is a good offense.
5) Interface management - Hot keys, gotta have them.
6) Upgrading
7) Defense
8) Building Management
9) Thinking about the opponents strategy
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age 19, advanced
Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
These two go together, depending on your scouting:
Defense
Defensive actions or plans
Offense
Offensive actions or plans
Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
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Its really about combining all of these things together. After a while SC players learn how to distribute their time into paying attention to all of those. At different times, all of those things can win or lose the game, so they are all equally as important.
For example, you can have great micro, perfect split every time, can micro your units to the absolute maximum effeciency, but if you arent playing attention to your minerals and making more workers and building ttech and production buildings, producing units, and thinking about what you are going to do AFTER what you are doing, you are going to lose.
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1) Your age - 21
2) Number of hours experience with Starcraft (approximate) - on and off for a decade; your description of your own experience with Starcraft probably fits mine; so put whatever hours you designated for yourself to me.
3) What level of expert you consider yourself
(beginner, advanced, intermediate, expert, professional)
- advanced
4) Could you please sort the and rank the following concepts in order of importance they are to winning a Starcraft match, the first in the list or (1) being the most important and the last on the list (9) being the least important. I've put the concept name and then a very brief definition underneath. The concepts are below listed in no particular order.
6. Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
7. Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
9. Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
2. Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
4. Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
3. Defense
Defensive actions or plans
1. Offense
Offensive actions or plans
8. Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
5. Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
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Thanks!! I really appreciate it. I think I need about 10 more entries in order to make my data statistically significant.
Carmen
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I am 23.
Playing for eleven years.
Intermediate.
*
1. Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
2. Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
3. Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
4. Defense
Defensive actions or plans
5. Offense
Offensive actions or plans
6. Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
7. Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
8. Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
9. Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
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Can you elaborate on what you are trying to learn about through this study? It might help people to rank these interrelated aspects of gameplay. For example, should things that are ranked at the top of my list be such that if I ignore those elements of the game, then I am almost guaranteed to lose? Whereas things near the bottom of the list are such that if I ignore them, it won't hurt my chances of winning nearly as much?
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1) 19
2) 12500
3) High Intermediate, currently Advanced.
4)
Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
Offense
Offensive actions or plans
Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
Defense
Defensive actions or plans
Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
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On November 22 2009 08:01 category wrote:
Can you elaborate on what you are trying to learn about through this study? It might help people to rank these interrelated aspects of gameplay. For example, should things that are ranked at the top of my list be such that if I ignore those elements of the game, then I am almost guaranteed to lose? Whereas things near the bottom of the list are such that if I ignore them, it won't hurt my chances of winning nearly as much?
Being at the bottom doesn't mean you should ignore that category, it only means that category is less important (even very slighly) then all the other other categories.
Carmen
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1) 18
2) Over 10,000 Hours... what a waste of life
3) Intermediate
4)
1) Defense - Build up and defend and eventually move out
2) Offense - Kill off extra expos to stay ahead
3) Resources Management - Build a lot of miners and eventually does a lot of positives during the game
4) Upgrading - Siege, Stim, Mines, + damage + armor, very important
5) Recruitment- What good is resources if you don't use them?
6) Exploration - Know what you are up against
7) Thinking about the opponents strategy - Kind of hard to think about it unless you explore
8) Interface management - meh
9) Building management- This sort of goes under scouting and because i see it as a sub category it isn't too big. And only applies to terran
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Any more respondents, tonight is your last chance. Thanks to all who have participated so far!
Carmen
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Hey guys, here are the results to my little ranking survey. Unfortunately I wasn't able to get enough respondents in time to hand in my assignment in order to make all the variables statistically significant, however Building Management and Resource Management were both found to be significant (p < 0.05). It would seem that experts are agreeing that the most important concept is resource managament and the least important is building management. The other rankings are interesting to see but since they weren't found to be statistically significant, we can't really draw conclusions on them.
Thanks again to all who participated!
Categories Mean Rank
Building Management 3.76
Upgrading 4.76
Interface Management 4.94
Offense 6.18
Exploration 6.24
Defense 6.35
Recruitment 6.47
Thinking about the opponent 6.59
Resource Management 8.71
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yeah u cant organize... way too many factors its not even funny.
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also the race you play matters too
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On November 21 2009 10:11 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2009 09:34 Carmen wrote:
Could you please sort the and rank the following concepts in order of importance they are to winning a Starcraft match, the first in the list or (1) being the most important and the last on the list (9) being the least important. I've put the concept name and then a very brief definition underneath. The concepts are below listed in no particular order.
Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
Defense
Defensive actions or plans
Offense
Offensive actions or plans
Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
Carmen This is retarded. What's more important: units, plans, hotkeys, or management? The answer is you need all of these in every game! You can't win if you don't *ahem* recruit military units. You can't win if you don't have a plan. You can maximize utility without upgrades and hotkeys. And you can't do anything if you don't manage the dough. Liken this to the human body: What's more important? Nevous system? The brain? The heart? Thumbs? Stupid. That that's with 5 O's.
i was about to say something very similar to this.
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1) 20
2) 10 years, hard to say how many hours. Probably around 3000.
3) Advanced (should be higher than Intermediate IMO).
4) Thinking about the opponents strategy
Exploration
Resource Management
Recruitment
Building Management
Defense
Offense
Upgrading
Interface Management
You are missing stuff like Harass (I guess this could be Offense but...)
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I honestly would say the ranking of those elements of gameplay differ greatly depending on what level of play you are at. It should be obvious to everyone but it's worth pointing out. For a beginner, interface management and resource management are the top priorities and are far more than most beginner or intermediate players can hope to handle, but as the level of play rises, these things become a given and most of the focus shifts to "thinking about your opponents strategy"; that is, guessing what your opponent will do and preparing a suitable strategy before the game. The higher the level of play, the more the focus shifts from basic mechanics to a sort of thinking game.
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hey carmen what do you mean by statistically significant
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On November 21 2009 10:11 MountainDewJunkie wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2009 09:34 Carmen wrote:
Could you please sort the and rank the following concepts in order of importance they are to winning a Starcraft match, the first in the list or (1) being the most important and the last on the list (9) being the least important. I've put the concept name and then a very brief definition underneath. The concepts are below listed in no particular order.
Exploration
Scanning or moving unit(s) to unexplored areas
Building Management
Building repairing, moving buildings
Upgrading
Upgrading or improving building or units
Thinking about the opponents strategy
Mental state or possible strategic plans of the opponent(s)
Interface management
The game interface, such as hot keys or group key assignments
Defense
Defensive actions or plans
Offense
Offensive actions or plans
Recruitment
The recruitment of military units
Resources Management
The recruitment of SCVs, assignment of SCV to extract resources, or the building of a gas extractor
Carmen This is retarded. What's more important: units, plans, hotkeys, or management? The answer is you need all of these in every game! You can't win if you don't *ahem* recruit military units. You can't win if you don't have a plan. You can maximize utility without upgrades and hotkeys. And you can't do anything if you don't manage the dough. Liken this to the human body: What's more important? Nevous system? The brain? The heart? Thumbs? Stupid. That that's with 5 O's.
That's not entirely true. Sometimes people leave the game if they scout a proxy (without you actually building units), lose a 12hatch to cannons, etc.
Just being difficult 
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shouldn't map control be in there somewhere....? or i guess you can argue that map control is multiple factors put together.
the arrangement of these components also depend on your race and strategy.
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On November 21 2009 09:37 KwarK wrote:
...It's like asking which is more important in football, running or kicking the ball.
It took me several seconds to decide that running vs passing the ball wouldn't be a better way to make this analogy because I'm American and was thinking of a different sport 
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EPT
