EPTSwine flu vaccine - Page 4
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Illusion.
United States348 Posts
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Biochemist
United States1008 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:20 jiabung wrote: I'm guessing Captain Mayhem hasn't ever gotten the flu before. It's ok not to get the vaccine if you don't want to, but its not that much trouble to potentially prevent something you would otherwise regret if you did catch the flu. Especially if you got the swine flu which sucks 10x worse than the normal flu. What makes you so sure that the swine flu "sucks 10x worse" than the normal flu? This is a good example of why having this kind of discussion on a forum like this is a little silly. Everyone has an opinion, but it's almost all just regurgitated bullshit they picked up from someone else who also didn't know what they were talking about. | ||
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Zinbiel
Sweden878 Posts
First and foremost if you look at numbers H1N1 is not alot more dangerous than an ordinary flu. The main difference is who it hits, it is alot more often we see young people hospitalized with H1N1 than with our usual flu. That said, the risk of getting really sick/dying is still pretty low. What people should realize though is that much of the government's actions were taken at an early stage where not too much about the virus was known, apart from the fact that it was a "new strain" (hasn't been seen since the 1970:s). If anyone wants to know why you would rather err at the side of caution with these things, just read about the 1918 flu pandemic on wikipedia or whatever. I'd rather take 3-4 unnecessary vaccines than getting hit just once with something even resembling the spanish flu. Now to the vaccine. I saw that someone in the thread said it was mostly the dead virus in the vaccin causing the symptoms. This is not really true. In every vaccine there is something called adjuvant which basically is only there to give you a decent immune response. This is because the same signal substances in your body that makes you feverish helps the cells that are responsible for antibody production to realize something's up and they should get to work. To get a proper immunization with a virus which is dead you need to help the immune system. Some of the response comes from the virus, but it is a minor part of what you see. As for the mercury in the vaccin, as is posted earlier, you get more mercury in your bloodstream from eating 100 g fish caught in a lake in one of the big lakes in sweden, which in turn is still way less than the guidelines for what is acceptable intake per week. Even if you look at studies that show differences between the dangers of methyl-mercury vs ethyl-mercury, the fish is still more dangerous. Not even the fact that you inject the vaccine makes any real difference since both mercury-forms is absorbed to almost 100% in the gut. Someone said that the vaccine wasn't properly tested. While in part true, the stages of testing which were done, were done with more people than a usual flu-vaccine. Also, all the components have been used in vaccines since the 70:s without any scientific data pointing towards any "hidden damage". The virus component hasn't been in a vaccine before but since the virus is dead it will not kill you. Or give you any symptoms even close to a usual flu. That said, the vaccine can make you feel pretty sick for a day or two even though 4/5 only get pain in the arm. Although I don't have any numbers to back up this claim, I'd be more afraid of getting a secondary bacterial pneumonia due to the flu and from that you might get an autoimmune disease like psoriasis. You're just never safe :S I don't know why it seems like everyone knows a shitton of medical professionals who says they aren't going to get the vaccine. among the ones I've spoken to there is only a couple who wouldn't get it and none of them were doctors. I dunno if there was anymore I should have written, if anyone comes up with any questions which they'd want my input on, I'd be happy to answer them. Finally here is my thoughts about the whole ordeal: In hindsight, with the problems of getting the vaccine in time etc, I would probably not have bought vaccines for the entire population as Sweden did. However, with the information they had during the spring/summer it was in my opinion the right choice. The media has of course haussed both the dangers of the flu and the vaccine. It isn't that bad, it is however worse for young people than the normal flu. Since (in Sweden) the vaccine is free and the side-effects are that much less than getting the actual flu, even if your one of the unlucky ones who get sick for a day, you should get the vaccine. At least be honest with yourselves say "Nah, I'm not gonna get it because I can't be arsed" rather than "no, I'm not getting it because *insert a danger of choice here*". | ||
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Vedic
United States582 Posts
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EAGER-beaver
Canada2799 Posts
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Impervious
Canada4216 Posts
On November 21 2009 07:38 Probe. wrote: Man so many people don't listen to reason. The purpose of the flu shot isn't so that you, the healthy individual, doesn't get swine flu. It's so that the people around you maybe friends, family, or anyone else who may not be as healthy or may have serious health problems doesn't end up getting the flu from you and put in serious danger just because you don't the shot because it's not dangerous for you. That`s assuming there is enough to go around. And if there isn`t, who gets priority..... The ones who would be more likely to have a complication, or those who are more likely to get over it without any complications..... Seems like a pretty obvious choice to me..... | ||
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Zinbiel
Sweden878 Posts
On November 21 2009 08:08 EAGER-beaver wrote: Isn't vaccinating an RNA virus completely redundant? Uhm no. Poliovirus is a RNA virus and trust me, that vaccine has been a blessing. Edit: to the poster above me: You are both kinda right. As it stands right now, the risk-groups should get the vaccine first since there is no way we can immunize enough of the population before they risk getting seriously ill. The optimal thing would've been if we could have had enough vaccine for all the healthy people back in July for the reasons previoulsy stated. Everyone should get it sooner or later though to help the people who can't get the vaccine due to for example immune supression. | ||
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kiykiy
233 Posts
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dibban
Sweden1279 Posts
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B-612
Canada33 Posts
Props for creating a detailed post Zinbiel, that way I would not need to work on mine as much. As an individual who is casually interested in medical science I must say threads like these blow my mind, people should really try to differ judgment until thy have received all the facts they feel they need to make an informed decision. If you’re looking for a great source of information try this, tons of great insight into pseudoscience and the glory that is science based medicine. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/ If you want to learn more about vaccines and their efficacy I highly recommend you check out the Wikipedia on the topic. Yes, wikipedia as a user edited content sire has issues but on topics of mainstream science Wikipedia is a stellar starting point. The best way to gauge the true merit of any wikipedia article is the references at the end of the article, follow up with them and you can learn more than you ever wanted to know about any topic. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2009 02:25 SkelA wrote: Its better to get the normal flu vacine than leting be a lab rat for testing purposes. Here too its known that the swine flu vacine is not really healthy to take for x reasons. This new flu its not even that deadly. It only affects ppl with existing condinons. Only theese ppl are really in danger of geting complacitons and in some cases death . Think the death rate is around 0.1% and its the same or even lower compared to normal flu. On November 21 2009 02:38 Ricjames wrote: i have heard and read many opinions and doctors talking and i have to end up not taking the vaccine. Seriously, they don't even know if it works correctly, they don't even know if it can affect you in longterm. Some side effects don't have to be shown right after taking the vaccine, but it can affect your body in "invisible" ways. Also vaccination might be the origin of alergies. I am not taking that bullshit risk, i better take the risk of getting swine flu..If you are healthy person with no disorders, or lower imunity, you should do ok. The body itself is very strong to deal with these damn viruses. And if i die from swine flu, hell i was wrong, but i doubt that... Also, how long the H1N1 virus known? Do you think that they actually can made in that time 100% working and safe vaccine...? I also doubt that. As someone said, you are more like laboratory rat if you take it.. ^If you chaps wanted to learn more about my contentions with your arguments please read up on how vaccines are made and the awesome power of their effects. Science is awesome learn it, I assure you is really cool stuff. +1 zone  + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2009 07:38 Probe. wrote: Man so many people don't listen to reason. The purpose of the flu shot isn't so that you, the healthy individual, doesn't get swine flu. It's so that the people around you maybe friends, family, or anyone else who may not be as healthy or may have serious health problems doesn't end up getting the flu from you and put in serious danger just because you don't the shot because it's not dangerous for you. On November 21 2009 02:00 jiabung wrote: Even if the chances of getting the swine flu or much less than the seasonal flu, theres no reason not to get the vaccine to prevent something that would make you feel like shit if you got it otherwise.. Also, the entire vaccine side-effects are dangerous and you shouldn't get it is complete bullshit. The chances of you having some unpredicted, life-altering thing happen to you as a result of the vaccine is astronomically low. The benefits of preventing swine flu (even though its danger is ridiculously over-hyped by the media) is much better than the non-existent side-effects that may happen to 1 person in a million. The real risk of swine flu is much higher than the theoretical risk of the vaccine. The media just likes to take that 1 person in a million who actually had something bad happen to them, and make him the posterboy for what will happen when you get the vaccine. Y'all best be trollin... + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2009 06:13 eNoq wrote: The Swine flu vaccine gives you permanent DNA damage, try youtube -> "David Icke swine flu" | ||
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Beside_kr
Canada902 Posts
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aG.Admirai
Canada55 Posts
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On November 21 2009 01:12 Eatme wrote: My sideeffect was slight pain when a friend slapped me on the muscle where they put the needle, nothing else. So for all of you guys who consider taking the vaccine. I would strongly advice you to so because death or weeks of sickness really sucks.  Well I can avoid death by doing this: | ||
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Eatme
Switzerland3919 Posts
Haha that one was funny, giggled by myself in front of the comp. But it's kinda hard to use that tip when your lungs are full of fluid. | ||
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DyEnasTy
United States3714 Posts
On November 21 2009 02:24 Gnosis wrote: I got the H1N1 virus instead of the vaccine, survived, immunity built. It's all fear mongering and media hype. It's not a pandemic... Where's Socrates when you need him. Me too. Im just now on the back 9 with this lame illness. I got worked up by the media. In reality though It wasnt any worse than the reg flu. Relax people. | ||
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ProoM
Lithuania1741 Posts
On November 21 2009 09:54 Eatme wrote: Haha that one was funny, giggled by myself in front of the comp. But it's kinda hard to use that tip when your lungs are full of fluid. Haven't you read the 1:43???! If you've been stabbed, shot or diagnosed with a terminal illness breathing may not help in prolonging your life. Results may vary. | ||
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puttputt
Canada240 Posts
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eNoq
Netherlands502 Posts
On November 21 2009 07:53 Illusion. wrote: Ill just leave the fact out there that OBAMA REFUSES TO GIVE HIS CHILDREN THE VACCINE. Because he's smart and he knows what it does, unlike the LOLMEDIAPEOPLETHATJUSTWATCHTVANDBELIEVESEVERYTHINGTHEMEDIASAYS. do some research thankyou | ||
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29 fps
United States5725 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
the risks involved with getting the shot and then the risk of getting the flu and dying are uncomparable its best just to get a little sore arm Oh and wait till they sort the flu vaccine out, i think there might be some issues atm | ||
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