As we all know the swine flu pandemic is here. It will hit people with uncureable diseases and lung problems (maybe more, cant remember) harder then the usual people. I have astma myself, so I am included into the danger zone.
Then I started thinking about the vaccine, the media has been telling the public how bad and how dangerous the vaccine is supposed to be (atleast in Denmark they have).
The media's arguements were that the vaccine contains mercury and nervegas. Well that sounds awful, doesn't it? Well while the vaccine does contain mercury and nervegas, according to a doctor (who my dad talked to) there is more mercury in a plaicefillet. Now while people might argue for and against how much it contains. But if the doctor my dad asked isn't completely full of shit then either plaicefillet's are very unhealthy or the mercury in it does nonexistant damage.
Now, however I wouldn't go as far as saying the vaccine hasn't side effects. Because it has. The side effects I am experiencing + Show Spoiler +
while writing this
is pain in the place where the needle has been (can't use my left shoulder without it hurts), nausea, headache, stomachache and dizzyness. To say it so everyone can understand it, you get a not-so-bad influenza for 48 hours. Which is a pain in the ass. The doctor said that the side effects would last 1-2 day after the vaccine. Even though most of the pain was cured by taking a pinex (pain-relieving pill) I still had nausea.
So for all of you guys who consider taking the vaccine. I wouldn't advice you to unless you either have uncureable diseases or lung problems (such as astma) because 1-2 days of sickness really sucks. Also I am going to have another vaccine in a week. (Probally means another 48 hours of pain, yay!)
When my side effects aren't showing anymore I will keep you guys up to date with how many hours it took me to get back into shape. Sorry in advance if it is badly written, english isn't my native language.
My theory about the vaccination is that the events of "I am Legend" will happen in 2012! But seriously, my mother is a pharmacist and she told me to avoid taking the vaccination at the early stages because we don't really know what are the longer term side effects might be.
On November 21 2009 01:08 DragoonPK wrote: My theory about the vaccination is that the events of "I am Legend" will happen in 2012! But seriously, my mother is a pharmacist and she told me to avoid taking the vaccination at the early stages because we don't really know what are the longer term side effects might be.
Ahw, how I hate your last sentence, "long term" =( However unless you aren't in the danger zone (lung problems / uncureable disease).
Really? Our campus just got it's supply of H1N1 vaccines, but from what I've heard not many people have had many symptoms, and those who had symptoms got administered the nasal spray.
My sideeffect was slight pain when a friend slapped me on the muscle where they put the needle, nothing else. So for all of you guys who consider taking the vaccine. I would strongly advice you to so because death or weeks of sickness really sucks.
On November 21 2009 01:08 DragoonPK wrote: My theory about the vaccination is that the events of "I am Legend" will happen in 2012! But seriously, my mother is a pharmacist and she told me to avoid taking the vaccination at the early stages because we don't really know what are the longer term side effects might be.
Heh, and my mom's a district nurse. She's not taking it at all
And neither am I. The swine flu is milder than the regular, yearly flu we have, and I prefer to build my resistance the old fashioned way rather than taking this still debated vaccine.
I don't think you're qualified to advise people about having or not the vaccine, doctors are. It has side effects , like every vaccine , like any medication. ( personnaly my shoulder hurt a bit for about 24 hours).
The H1N1 can be dangerous (death) for everybody, even young people with no chronic disease. (older people are kind of immune because they were in contact with the virus years ago). It has already killed people. I don't think there is a case of someone whose life was in danger because of the vaccine.
*I did ask the woman who gave me my flu shot she said that most side-effects and dangers are only at risk of people who have serious illnesses and things like this happen in a 1 in a million.
On November 21 2009 01:08 DragoonPK wrote: My theory about the vaccination is that the events of "I am Legend" will happen in 2012! But seriously, my mother is a pharmacist and she told me to avoid taking the vaccination at the early stages because we don't really know what are the longer term side effects might be.
Heh, and my mom's a district nurse. She's not taking it at all
And neither am I. The swine flu is milder than the regular, yearly flu we have, and I prefer to build my resistance the old fashioned way rather than taking this still debated vaccine.
Thank you. I agree wholeheartedly with what you just said. I'm sooo tired of the talk about the swine flu in Sweden, people think it's some sort of mass killing virus. GET REAL lol
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
There are some people of the 20-35 year old group ( without chronic diseases ) who died because of ARDS or Cytokine storms.
On November 21 2009 01:16 amoxicilline wrote: I don't think you're qualified to advise people about having or not the vaccine, doctors are. It has side effects , like every vaccine , like any medication. ( personnaly my shoulder hurt a bit for about 24 hours).
The H1N1 can be dangerous (death) for everybody, even young people with no chronic disease. (older people are kind of immune because they were in contact with the virus years ago). It has already killed people. I don't think there is a case of someone whose life was in danger because of the vaccine.
So if I can advise people, do the vaccine.
I am qualified to say my opinion and tell other people what they're going into. And I didnt include the danger for children because of the reason so few children are on tl.net And I never said that your life was in danger? I said it had side effects which is really annoying, geez man, you sound like I try to scare people off the vaccine, I just told people that it what happend to me (and the doctor said I would get this).
I got it 2 days ago - went in to see the doctor for something unrelated and he told me I might as well get it since I was there. Regular flu vaccine went in one arm, H1N1 vaccine went in the other. The next day I had a mild pain in both arms, similar to if I was lifting weights the day before. 2 days later, the arm with the H1N1 vaccine is still sore (hurts to sleep on that side) but no other side effects.
It should be more important for people who are in certain environments during the day, such as health care professionals that work in hospitals for example. They are at increased risk of getting the H1N1. I just finished my rotations for my semester so I didn't receive it, nor do I think I will get it. But that is just personal preference!
On November 21 2009 01:45 DBunny wrote: I got it 2 days ago - went in to see the doctor for something unrelated and he told me I might as well get it since I was there. Regular flu vaccine went in one arm, H1N1 vaccine went in the other. The next day I had a mild pain in both arms, similar to if I was lifting weights the day before. 2 days later, the arm with the H1N1 vaccine is still sore (hurts to sleep on that side) but no other side effects.
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
students have died from this. if you can get the vaccine, get it. it's no more dangerous than a nomral flu shot and you're not just protecting yourself when you get it, you're protecting the people who you might otherwise transmit the virus too. h1n1 really isn't that dangerous, but a flu shot is a lot less dangerous.
Even if the chances of getting the swine flu or much less than the seasonal flu, theres no reason not to get the vaccine to prevent something that would make you feel like shit if you got it otherwise..
Also, the entire vaccine side-effects are dangerous and you shouldn't get it is complete bullshit. The chances of you having some unpredicted, life-altering thing happen to you as a result of the vaccine is astronomically low. The benefits of preventing swine flu (even though its danger is ridiculously over-hyped by the media) is much better than the non-existent side-effects that may happen to 1 person in a million. The real risk of swine flu is much higher than the theoretical risk of the vaccine.
The media just likes to take that 1 person in a million who actually had something bad happen to them, and make him the posterboy for what will happen when you get the vaccine.
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
Well it still sucks to be sick two weeks (unless you're unlucky) so a little inconvenience going to wherever you can get a shot is really worth it. You'll most likely get it anyway if you dont, so why not prevent it?
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
So even though it's milder then normal flu, why the hell wouldn't you just cure that as well if it's doable? Not as many is dying from swine flu but it's the same deal, people are dying, noone can argue against that. Tell me why that is waste of money.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
How many have been infected by H1N1: far far less How many have died from H1N1: far far less Percentage of people who die from H1N1: a lot more than seasonal flu
Even if the danger of swine flu is being greatly over-exaggerated and being called an epidemic and such, thats no reason not to get the vaccine for it. Just because something is being marketed as worse than it actually is by the media doesn't change the fact that you still don't want to get it and probably don't want to give it to others as well.
The side effects from vaccination are usually due to the dead virus inside the vaccine itself, not the other ingredients in the vaccine. That said, you can get those same side effects from the real virus, and the risk is much higher from live virus than dead virus (10x or so)
The other main danger of the vaccine is bacterial contamination, but that is usually quickly detected...
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
students have died from this. if you can get the vaccine, get it. it's no more dangerous than a nomral flu shot and you're not just protecting yourself when you get it, you're protecting the people who you might otherwise transmit the virus too. h1n1 really isn't that dangerous, but a flu shot is a lot less dangerous.
One of the first sentences I read: "This student had significant and serious health problems before contracting H1N1, the newspaper said." Another: "Further, he said that people with serious health problems are much more likely than others to be hit hard by H1N1." I hope I'm not taking anything too much out of context by quoting that.
Students die from the regular flu as well. It's really not that much of a deal to the average person. But I'm not stopping anyone from taking it, just saying that there's not really any reason to if you haven't gotten a vaccine from any other flu before
The funny thing is that bot H1N1 and the vaccine is hyped to be really scary and dangerous by the media. No matter what you do it apparently really really scary and people make weird decitions due to being scared or bored from the media crying wolf 24/7.
I'm guessing Captain Mayhem hasn't ever gotten the flu before. It's ok not to get the vaccine if you don't want to, but its not that much trouble to potentially prevent something you would otherwise regret if you did catch the flu. Especially if you got the swine flu which sucks 10x worse than the normal flu.
I got the H1N1 virus instead of the vaccine, survived, immunity built. It's all fear mongering and media hype. It's not a pandemic... Where's Socrates when you need him.
Its better to get the normal flu vacine than leting be a lab rat for testing purposes.
Here too its known that the swine flu vacine is not really healthy to take for x reasons. This new flu its not even that deadly. It only affects ppl with existing condinons. Only theese ppl are really in danger of geting complacitons and in some cases death .
Think the death rate is around 0.1% and its the same or even lower compared to normal flu.
On November 21 2009 02:20 jiabung wrote: I'm guessing Captain Mayhem hasn't ever gotten the flu before. It's ok not to get the vaccine if you don't want to, but its not that much trouble to potentially prevent something you would otherwise regret if you did catch the flu. Especially if you got the swine flu which sucks 10x worse than the normal flu.
I have. It sucked. I got over it.
Bleh, I'm abandoning this discussion. Just go with whatever you want, people -_-
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
students have died from this. if you can get the vaccine, get it. it's no more dangerous than a nomral flu shot and you're not just protecting yourself when you get it, you're protecting the people who you might otherwise transmit the virus too. h1n1 really isn't that dangerous, but a flu shot is a lot less dangerous.
One of the first sentences I read: "This student had significant and serious health problems before contracting H1N1, the newspaper said." Another: "Further, he said that people with serious health problems are much more likely than others to be hit hard by H1N1." I hope I'm not taking anything too much out of context by quoting that.
Students die from the regular flu as well. It's really not that much of a deal to the average person. But I'm not stopping anyone from taking it, just saying that there's not really any reason to if you haven't gotten a vaccine from any other flu before
I'm to lazy to find swedish sources of deaths and if they were in any risk groups but I'll give you the hospitalizations.
Under 5 years old: 20 5-14 years old: 17 15-39 years old: 68 40-65 years old: 54 over 65 years old: 8
Source: Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå.
While having to stay at a hospital wont equal death it's most likely mean that you are really ill and I think the numbers speak for themselves.
swine flu is fucking bullshit. Its just a harder flu that's all. Its not a terrible disease, the media just overreacted. we are here on a "second wave" flu and everybody just live their lives normally. IMO dont waste your money, just take health precautions and if you ever get contagion just treat yourself with care and nothign more
i have heard and read many opinions and doctors talking and i have to end up not taking the vaccine. Seriously, they don't even know if it works correctly, they don't even know if it can affect you in longterm. Some side effects don't have to be shown right after taking the vaccine, but it can affect your body in "invisible" ways. Also vaccination might be the origin of alergies. I am not taking that bullshit risk, i better take the risk of getting swine flu..If you are healthy person with no disorders, or lower imunity, you should do ok. The body itself is very strong to deal with these damn viruses. And if i die from swine flu, hell i was wrong, but i doubt that...
Also, how long the H1N1 virus known? Do you think that they actually can made in that time 100% working and safe vaccine...? I also doubt that. As someone said, you are more like laboratory rat if you take it..
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
Negative. The vaccine is a way of keeping societies healthy.
Yeah? How about adressing obesity in America instead of swine flu. I wonder how many people die from heart attacks and other obesity-related diseases each year. Now there is a real problem compared to the flu.
It's all about perspective. And paying huge amounts of money for a vaccine for this flu is ridiculous.
So far the people in Sweden that either has died or became serious ill in the swine flue all have had extremely poor health or rare and very bad chronic conditions or illnesses.
The last one that died wasn't even healthy enough to take the damn vaccine, there isn't much hope for these kinds of people.
I got the swine flue around 3 weeks ago (went to a hospital and got it confirmed) all I had was soar throat for around 3 days, then it was gone.
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
Negative. The vaccine is a way of keeping societies healthy.
Yeah? How about adressing obesity in America instead of swine flu. I wonder how many people die from heart attacks and other obesity-related diseases each year. Now there is a real problem compared to the flu.
It's all about perspective. And paying huge amounts of money for a vaccine for this flu is ridiculous.
Apples and oranges. Obesity can't be treated with a simple vaccine. It's a lifestyle change lol.
On November 21 2009 06:13 eNoq wrote: The Swine flu vaccine gives you permanent DNA damage, try youtube -> "David Icke swine flu"
lol
You can't be serious. We all know David Icke is the most reliable source of information ever. Actually I just got super curious as to what Dawkins would say about Icke :D
something makes me think that you are not being sarcastic and if you are, you're doing a bad job
On November 21 2009 06:13 eNoq wrote: The Swine flu vaccine gives you permanent DNA damage, try youtube -> "David Icke swine flu"
lol
You can't be serious. We all know David Icke is the most reliable source of information ever. Actually I just got super curious as to what Dawkins would say about Icke :D
something makes me think that you are not being sarcastic and if you are, you're doing a bad job
I'm not being sarcastic, i'm just putting the truth out there.
When there aren`t enough vaccines to go around, not everyone can have one.
I am a healthy male, aged 21. No major health problems (my biggest problem is my cholesterol could be a bit lower).
Now, one of the people I`m in rez with has a compromised immune system. She is on medications for arthritis which suppress some of her immune responses. As such, I made sure that she was going to get the shot as soon as possible. She definitely needed it more than me.
Unfortunately, she contracted H1N1 before she could get the shot..... As contagious as it is, there are 3 of us that were living in close proximity to her, and none of us caught it. So I think that there is a little bit of an unhealthy hype over it..... Not saying it`s something to be ignored, but it definitely isn`t as big of a deal as the media is making it out to be. She`s been over it for over 2 weeks now.
Regardless - if a surplus of vaccines suddenly appears, I would probably go out and get it myself. But, as of right now, I`ll let someone else have it. There are other people who need it much more than I do.
Also - any vaccine (or any medication for that matter) has the chance for complications. It happens. But if it happened too often, that medication would not be on the market. Or it would be taken off asap. That is how the system works. The system should be trusted.
I took the vaccine two days ago, I've had a small headache the entire day today and felt kinda feverish this morning, but the headache is fading now and I feel fine.
I think a lot of you are missing the point here. The real danger isn't that it's "super dangerous" and that people die because of it. People die in the regular flu each year. What I think is concerning people, is that we don't have a developed resistance against this virus. Which could potentially mean that, if it spreads quickly, schools and companies would get knocked out. People would be lying home sick, and it'd basically put society on hold for a few weeks which will cost a shit load of money and hospitals etc would be overrun.
On November 21 2009 02:36 Night[Mare wrote: swine flu is fucking bullshit. Its just a harder flu that's all. Its not a terrible disease, the media just overreacted. we are here on a "second wave" flu and everybody just live their lives normally. IMO dont waste your money, just take health precautions and if you ever get contagion just treat yourself with care and nothign more
Ya'know, the "don't waste you money" arguement is pointless for those who have health insurance (or what you call it in USA / Mexico)
H1N1 would hardly even be news if there was anything else worth making news about going on. I'm not going to bother with the vaccine, and most of the doctors I know wouldn't either if the state wasn't forcing them to get it.
Man so many people don't listen to reason. The purpose of the flu shot isn't so that you, the healthy individual, doesn't get swine flu. It's so that the people around you maybe friends, family, or anyone else who may not be as healthy or may have serious health problems doesn't end up getting the flu from you and put in serious danger just because you don't the shot because it's not dangerous for you.
I got the nasal spray about a month ago, and I didn't experience any side effects. A lot of people at my university campus got the vaccine, and there have been no reports of side effects.
On November 21 2009 02:20 jiabung wrote: I'm guessing Captain Mayhem hasn't ever gotten the flu before. It's ok not to get the vaccine if you don't want to, but its not that much trouble to potentially prevent something you would otherwise regret if you did catch the flu. Especially if you got the swine flu which sucks 10x worse than the normal flu.
What makes you so sure that the swine flu "sucks 10x worse" than the normal flu?
This is a good example of why having this kind of discussion on a forum like this is a little silly. Everyone has an opinion, but it's almost all just regurgitated bullshit they picked up from someone else who also didn't know what they were talking about.
Ok, I'm a med student and have just done my infection semester, and therefore I have been working with and close to the swineflu and have had discussions about it with both physicians and scientists. So I thought I might give you some insight into what I've heard/seen. Wall of text incoming.
First and foremost if you look at numbers H1N1 is not alot more dangerous than an ordinary flu. The main difference is who it hits, it is alot more often we see young people hospitalized with H1N1 than with our usual flu. That said, the risk of getting really sick/dying is still pretty low. What people should realize though is that much of the government's actions were taken at an early stage where not too much about the virus was known, apart from the fact that it was a "new strain" (hasn't been seen since the 1970:s). If anyone wants to know why you would rather err at the side of caution with these things, just read about the 1918 flu pandemic on wikipedia or whatever. I'd rather take 3-4 unnecessary vaccines than getting hit just once with something even resembling the spanish flu.
Now to the vaccine. I saw that someone in the thread said it was mostly the dead virus in the vaccin causing the symptoms. This is not really true. In every vaccine there is something called adjuvant which basically is only there to give you a decent immune response. This is because the same signal substances in your body that makes you feverish helps the cells that are responsible for antibody production to realize something's up and they should get to work. To get a proper immunization with a virus which is dead you need to help the immune system. Some of the response comes from the virus, but it is a minor part of what you see.
As for the mercury in the vaccin, as is posted earlier, you get more mercury in your bloodstream from eating 100 g fish caught in a lake in one of the big lakes in sweden, which in turn is still way less than the guidelines for what is acceptable intake per week. Even if you look at studies that show differences between the dangers of methyl-mercury vs ethyl-mercury, the fish is still more dangerous. Not even the fact that you inject the vaccine makes any real difference since both mercury-forms is absorbed to almost 100% in the gut.
Someone said that the vaccine wasn't properly tested. While in part true, the stages of testing which were done, were done with more people than a usual flu-vaccine. Also, all the components have been used in vaccines since the 70:s without any scientific data pointing towards any "hidden damage". The virus component hasn't been in a vaccine before but since the virus is dead it will not kill you. Or give you any symptoms even close to a usual flu.
That said, the vaccine can make you feel pretty sick for a day or two even though 4/5 only get pain in the arm. Although I don't have any numbers to back up this claim, I'd be more afraid of getting a secondary bacterial pneumonia due to the flu and from that you might get an autoimmune disease like psoriasis. You're just never safe :S
I don't know why it seems like everyone knows a shitton of medical professionals who says they aren't going to get the vaccine. among the ones I've spoken to there is only a couple who wouldn't get it and none of them were doctors. I dunno if there was anymore I should have written, if anyone comes up with any questions which they'd want my input on, I'd be happy to answer them.
Finally here is my thoughts about the whole ordeal: In hindsight, with the problems of getting the vaccine in time etc, I would probably not have bought vaccines for the entire population as Sweden did. However, with the information they had during the spring/summer it was in my opinion the right choice. The media has of course haussed both the dangers of the flu and the vaccine. It isn't that bad, it is however worse for young people than the normal flu. Since (in Sweden) the vaccine is free and the side-effects are that much less than getting the actual flu, even if your one of the unlucky ones who get sick for a day, you should get the vaccine. At least be honest with yourselves say "Nah, I'm not gonna get it because I can't be arsed" rather than "no, I'm not getting it because *insert a danger of choice here*".
You statistically have a MUCH better chance of dying to a bolt of lightning than to H1N1, so if you're going to go out of your way to get a shot, you might as well pick up a rubber suit. Getting a shot for the seasonal flu is only marginally less stupid than buying a rubber suit.
On November 21 2009 07:38 Probe. wrote: Man so many people don't listen to reason. The purpose of the flu shot isn't so that you, the healthy individual, doesn't get swine flu. It's so that the people around you maybe friends, family, or anyone else who may not be as healthy or may have serious health problems doesn't end up getting the flu from you and put in serious danger just because you don't the shot because it's not dangerous for you.
That`s assuming there is enough to go around. And if there isn`t, who gets priority..... The ones who would be more likely to have a complication, or those who are more likely to get over it without any complications.....
On November 21 2009 08:08 EAGER-beaver wrote: Isn't vaccinating an RNA virus completely redundant?
Uhm no. Poliovirus is a RNA virus and trust me, that vaccine has been a blessing.
Edit: to the poster above me: You are both kinda right. As it stands right now, the risk-groups should get the vaccine first since there is no way we can immunize enough of the population before they risk getting seriously ill. The optimal thing would've been if we could have had enough vaccine for all the healthy people back in July for the reasons previoulsy stated. Everyone should get it sooner or later though to help the people who can't get the vaccine due to for example immune supression.
TL;dr Vaccines are the best thing science has ever done in my opinion.
Props for creating a detailed post Zinbiel, that way I would not need to work on mine as much. As an individual who is casually interested in medical science I must say threads like these blow my mind, people should really try to differ judgment until thy have received all the facts they feel they need to make an informed decision.
If you’re looking for a great source of information try this, tons of great insight into pseudoscience and the glory that is science based medicine. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/
If you want to learn more about vaccines and their efficacy I highly recommend you check out the Wikipedia on the topic. Yes, wikipedia as a user edited content sire has issues but on topics of mainstream science Wikipedia is a stellar starting point. The best way to gauge the true merit of any wikipedia article is the references at the end of the article, follow up with them and you can learn more than you ever wanted to know about any topic.
On November 21 2009 02:25 SkelA wrote: Its better to get the normal flu vacine than leting be a lab rat for testing purposes.
Here too its known that the swine flu vacine is not really healthy to take for x reasons. This new flu its not even that deadly. It only affects ppl with existing condinons. Only theese ppl are really in danger of geting complacitons and in some cases death .
Think the death rate is around 0.1% and its the same or even lower compared to normal flu.
On November 21 2009 02:38 Ricjames wrote: i have heard and read many opinions and doctors talking and i have to end up not taking the vaccine. Seriously, they don't even know if it works correctly, they don't even know if it can affect you in longterm. Some side effects don't have to be shown right after taking the vaccine, but it can affect your body in "invisible" ways. Also vaccination might be the origin of alergies. I am not taking that bullshit risk, i better take the risk of getting swine flu..If you are healthy person with no disorders, or lower imunity, you should do ok. The body itself is very strong to deal with these damn viruses. And if i die from swine flu, hell i was wrong, but i doubt that...
Also, how long the H1N1 virus known? Do you think that they actually can made in that time 100% working and safe vaccine...? I also doubt that. As someone said, you are more like laboratory rat if you take it..
^If you chaps wanted to learn more about my contentions with your arguments please read up on how vaccines are made and the awesome power of their effects. Science is awesome learn it, I assure you is really cool stuff.
On November 21 2009 07:38 Probe. wrote: Man so many people don't listen to reason. The purpose of the flu shot isn't so that you, the healthy individual, doesn't get swine flu. It's so that the people around you maybe friends, family, or anyone else who may not be as healthy or may have serious health problems doesn't end up getting the flu from you and put in serious danger just because you don't the shot because it's not dangerous for you.
On November 21 2009 02:00 jiabung wrote: Even if the chances of getting the swine flu or much less than the seasonal flu, theres no reason not to get the vaccine to prevent something that would make you feel like shit if you got it otherwise..
Also, the entire vaccine side-effects are dangerous and you shouldn't get it is complete bullshit. The chances of you having some unpredicted, life-altering thing happen to you as a result of the vaccine is astronomically low. The benefits of preventing swine flu (even though its danger is ridiculously over-hyped by the media) is much better than the non-existent side-effects that may happen to 1 person in a million. The real risk of swine flu is much higher than the theoretical risk of the vaccine.
The media just likes to take that 1 person in a million who actually had something bad happen to them, and make him the posterboy for what will happen when you get the vaccine.
If you're reading this thread and are actually unsure, I strongly recommend doing a little research and not just taking the information in this thread at face value. I imagine none of these posters are doctors so just keep that in mind (no disrespect to anyone of course). All I can say is that if you have a pre-existing respiratory condition that you should seriously consider getting it, even if you do not usually get the flu shot.
On November 21 2009 01:12 Eatme wrote: My sideeffect was slight pain when a friend slapped me on the muscle where they put the needle, nothing else. So for all of you guys who consider taking the vaccine. I would strongly advice you to so because death or weeks of sickness really sucks.
On November 21 2009 01:12 Eatme wrote: My sideeffect was slight pain when a friend slapped me on the muscle where they put the needle, nothing else. So for all of you guys who consider taking the vaccine. I would strongly advice you to so because death or weeks of sickness really sucks.
Well I can avoid death by doing this:
Haha that one was funny, giggled by myself in front of the comp. But it's kinda hard to use that tip when your lungs are full of fluid.
On November 21 2009 02:24 Gnosis wrote: I got the H1N1 virus instead of the vaccine, survived, immunity built. It's all fear mongering and media hype. It's not a pandemic... Where's Socrates when you need him.
Me too. Im just now on the back 9 with this lame illness. I got worked up by the media. In reality though It wasnt any worse than the reg flu. Relax people.
On November 21 2009 01:12 Eatme wrote: My sideeffect was slight pain when a friend slapped me on the muscle where they put the needle, nothing else. So for all of you guys who consider taking the vaccine. I would strongly advice you to so because death or weeks of sickness really sucks.
Well I can avoid death by doing this:
Haha that one was funny, giggled by myself in front of the comp. But it's kinda hard to use that tip when your lungs are full of fluid.
Haven't you read the 1:43???! If you've been stabbed, shot or diagnosed with a terminal illness breathing may not help in prolonging your life. Results may vary.
I haven't got it due to the fact that my parents are being stupid
the risks involved with getting the shot and then the risk of getting the flu and dying are uncomparable its best just to get a little sore arm Oh and wait till they sort the flu vaccine out, i think there might be some issues atm
I'll just leave the fact out there that regular season flu killed more people this year than swine flu did. This is coming directly from a doctor who, even though works in a hospital (high risk of infection), didn't get the H1N1 vaccine, but did get the regular flu vaccine. He said he will probably get the H1N1 too, but only if the hospital imposes it, which they will probably not do.
Vaccination is probably among the worse ways to develop resistance to disease. It just like getting the disease itself except probabilistically it's much weaker. People can get the real disease through the vaccine. If the disease wasn't weak enough or if their immune system isn't strong enough, they'll get it. If you are already sick with something, vaccines are a bad idea. There are various other risks associated with vaccinations including allergic reactions to all the stabilizing chemicals they put in the vaccines.
Whether or not the vaccine is worth it depends on the duration of immunity, the severity of the disease, and the severity of vaccination risks. It wouldn't make sense if the vaccine only helped the recipient for two weeks. It wouldn't make sense for a disease that had mild symptoms and could be treated easily in any other way. It also wouldn't make sense if the vaccine causes nearly as much pain and suffering as the disease it is designed to prevent.
For H1N1: The flu isn't that severe compared to other strains of flu. It's just that people haven't ever been exposed to it before so not many people have developed immunities. Its spread through the population is almost over if some of these numbers are to be believed so duration of immunity would be very short. The risks associated with getting the vaccine is high since its development has been so rushed.
At this point, there is pretty much no compelling reason to get the vaccine.
Havent read this thread, so if its been said before, Im going to repeat it again.
Talk to your doctor, not someone on the internet. Seriously. Would you go ask some random person in the street about advice when building a bridge? No, you would ask an engineer. Every man and his dog thinks they know enough about medicine to give worthwhile advice, and its total bullshit.The media will do whatever they can to get ratings, which include extremely biased reports, so dont listen to their bullshit either.
If you are worried/curious, ask someone who ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about.
Taking to everyone is by far the better idea, although you will have to use proper judgement on discounting or discrediting the opinions of certain peoples.
Doctors might be medical professionals but it doesn't mean that they aren't trying to sell you something that you might not need. Advice on the internet also doesn't cost any money to get unlike your visit to the doctors.
The internet wouldn't be nearly as popular if everyone thought that advice should be bought out of people.
On November 22 2009 02:35 Fen wrote: Havent read this thread, so if its been said before, Im going to repeat it again.
Talk to your doctor, not someone on the internet. Seriously. Would you go ask some random person in the street about advice when building a bridge? No, you would ask an engineer. Every man and his dog thinks they know enough about medicine to give worthwhile advice, and its total bullshit.The media will do whatever they can to get ratings, which include extremely biased reports, so dont listen to their bullshit either.
If you are worried/curious, ask someone who ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about.
Uh, I have the vaccine, I didn't ask for advice because the doctor said it was going to happend.
Also, I was just trying to tell other people to be prepared for it when they recieved the vaccine.
I think that each time you go out the chances you get a swine flu would be somewhere around hitting a royal flush. Well if you still hit it and later die at least you help the evolution - weak genes won't pass on. That was a little sarcastic but since people had started to use antibiotics and vaccines on daily bases they have doomed theirselves.
Still I think it's again all about money - as most things that happen in the world these days. Firstly, to prevent mass system failure caused by many people sick. Scondly, for pharmacy companies to make big profit.
On November 22 2009 04:53 LastWish wrote: I think that each time you go out the chances you get a swine flu would be somewhere around hitting a royal flush. Well if you still hit it and later die at least you help the evolution - weak genes won't pass on. That was a little sarcastic but since people had started to use antibiotics and vaccines on daily bases they have doomed theirselves.
Still I think it's again all about money - as most things that happen in the world these days. Firstly, to prevent mass system failure caused by many people sick. Scondly, for pharmacy companies to make big profit.
Has nothing to do with my health (haven't been ill since spring it's just that I have asthma)
in case you guys don't know, the reason why this h1n1 virus is so dangerous is because its the same strain that caused the 1918 flu pandemic that killed over 50 million people, which is the worst virus pandemic of all time in history. just look it up if you dont believe it. people who are getting affected by it now are having the same symptoms as those in 1918. and yes h1n1 is more deadly than other types of seasonal flus because it specifically attacks the lung areas and lower abdomen, resulting in death where most people become unable to breathe.
also vaccination is one of the best ways to develop resistance to disease. when you get vaccinated, they are injecting dead viral proteins into you ( or weakened live virus for nasal sprays) which your body can easily deal with. obviously you might not want to do this if you know that you're already immuno-compromised. getting vaccinated helps your body develop its humoral response agaisnt that specific virus by creating memory cells the first time it sees that antigen. if you were to get infected a 2nd time, your body is already primed to make antibodies against that virus so you do not develop the disease.
Hah, seems I made the right choice to gtfo... Both sides utterly REFUSE to believe anything the other side has to say. One says it's 10 times deadlier than regular flu, the other says it's actually weaker. Next one says it's deadlier yet again, and someone counters by saying it's not. And nearly everyone wants the rest to do the hard work by looking up sources or take their word for it. (I admit I did the same. Sorry)
Speaking as a nay sayer, I almost feel that the other side *likes* to be scared... Deep inside.
Anyway, I've tried to come up with some unbiased facts and statistics about this thing, to see if this discussion might start going somewhere. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/images/qa_deaths.gif I recall someone saying that younger people had a higher risk of dying. I think this pie chart should at least disprove that point.
Swedish: http://www.krisinformation.se/web/StartPage____31105.aspx Basically it says that the difference between H1N1 and the seasonal flu is that more will be infected, due to it being another kind of flu. The symptoms are similar, i.e. fever and breathing problems.
On November 22 2009 04:53 LastWish wrote: I think that each time you go out the chances you get a swine flu would be somewhere around hitting a royal flush. Well if you still hit it and later die at least you help the evolution - weak genes won't pass on. That was a little sarcastic but since people had started to use antibiotics and vaccines on daily bases they have doomed theirselves.
Still I think it's again all about money - as most things that happen in the world these days. Firstly, to prevent mass system failure caused by many people sick. Scondly, for pharmacy companies to make big profit.
Following the statistics of the seasonal flu, you have a 5-20% chance of catching any flu. I believe you are thinking of the chance of you dying to H1N1, which is roughly 12x less likely than dying to a bolt of lightning. You're only slightly more likely to die to the seasonal flu than to lightning, even.
On November 21 2009 01:16 amoxicilline wrote: I don't think you're qualified to advise people about having or not the vaccine, doctors are. It has side effects , like every vaccine , like any medication. ( personnaly my shoulder hurt a bit for about 24 hours).
The H1N1 can be dangerous (death) for everybody, even young people with no chronic disease. (older people are kind of immune because they were in contact with the virus years ago). It has already killed people. I don't think there is a case of someone whose life was in danger because of the vaccine.
So if I can advise people, do the vaccine.
Well considering your name is amoxicilline you have an obvious bias but still a valid point :D. I never get flu shots or vaccine other than the ones i had as a kid (cant change that) an I have been sick twice in the last 5 years, both times lasting about a day and a half, both were mild colds. The best way to not get sick is to eat healthy and that's the bottom line.
On November 22 2009 08:41 Captain Mayhem wrote: Hah, seems I made the right choice to gtfo... Both sides utterly REFUSE to believe anything the other side has to say. One says it's 10 times deadlier than regular flu, the other says it's actually weaker. Next one says it's deadlier yet again, and someone counters by saying it's not. And nearly everyone wants the rest to do the hard work by looking up sources or take their word for it. (I admit I did the same. Sorry)
Speaking as a nay sayer, I almost feel that the other side *likes* to be scared... Deep inside.
Anyway, I've tried to come up with some unbiased facts and statistics about this thing, to see if this discussion might start going somewhere. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/images/qa_deaths.gif I recall someone saying that younger people had a higher risk of dying. I think this pie chart should at least disprove that point.
On November 22 2009 08:41 Captain Mayhem wrote: Hah, seems I made the right choice to gtfo... Both sides utterly REFUSE to believe anything the other side has to say. One says it's 10 times deadlier than regular flu, the other says it's actually weaker. Next one says it's deadlier yet again, and someone counters by saying it's not. And nearly everyone wants the rest to do the hard work by looking up sources or take their word for it. (I admit I did the same. Sorry)
Speaking as a nay sayer, I almost feel that the other side *likes* to be scared... Deep inside.
Anyway, I've tried to come up with some unbiased facts and statistics about this thing, to see if this discussion might start going somewhere. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/images/qa_deaths.gif I recall someone saying that younger people had a higher risk of dying. I think this pie chart should at least disprove that point.
On November 22 2009 08:41 Captain Mayhem wrote: Hah, seems I made the right choice to gtfo... Both sides utterly REFUSE to believe anything the other side has to say. One says it's 10 times deadlier than regular flu, the other says it's actually weaker. Next one says it's deadlier yet again, and someone counters by saying it's not. And nearly everyone wants the rest to do the hard work by looking up sources or take their word for it. (I admit I did the same. Sorry)
Speaking as a nay sayer, I almost feel that the other side *likes* to be scared... Deep inside.
Anyway, I've tried to come up with some unbiased facts and statistics about this thing, to see if this discussion might start going somewhere. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/images/qa_deaths.gif I recall someone saying that younger people had a higher risk of dying. I think this pie chart should at least disprove that point.
On November 22 2009 08:41 Captain Mayhem wrote: Hah, seems I made the right choice to gtfo... Both sides utterly REFUSE to believe anything the other side has to say. One says it's 10 times deadlier than regular flu, the other says it's actually weaker. Next one says it's deadlier yet again, and someone counters by saying it's not. And nearly everyone wants the rest to do the hard work by looking up sources or take their word for it. (I admit I did the same. Sorry)
Speaking as a nay sayer, I almost feel that the other side *likes* to be scared... Deep inside.
Anyway, I've tried to come up with some unbiased facts and statistics about this thing, to see if this discussion might start going somewhere. http://www.cdc.gov/h1n1flu/images/qa_deaths.gif I recall someone saying that younger people had a higher risk of dying. I think this pie chart should at least disprove that point.
I had the vaccine about week ago, had some slight fever yet lots of muscle pains (mostly in left arm where they put the shot) and several cramps. Lasted for some 3 or 4 days.
On November 22 2009 03:28 TanGeng wrote: Taking to everyone is by far the better idea, although you will have to use proper judgement on discounting or discrediting the opinions of certain peoples.
Doctors might be medical professionals but it doesn't mean that they aren't trying to sell you something that you might not need. Advice on the internet also doesn't cost any money to get unlike your visit to the doctors.
The internet wouldn't be nearly as popular if everyone thought that advice should be bought out of people.
But who do you believe on the internet?
And your previous post about risks of getting mexican flu by the vaccination: it's a dead version of the virus they give you, with dead meaning you ain't getting the flu from it.
@ Captain Mayhem:
Compared to the normal flue young people have a higher chance of dying. That combined with the higher infection rate creates a risk for that group as well compared to the normal flu.
Now I did get the vaccination as well and didn't have any side-effects from it besides a stiff arm for a day. But the vaccination is for free here, so why would you not get it? The risks of the vaccination are severly overrated, they used the same basis as all other vaccinations you got already, and you are still alive right? Do I think the virus is the most potent danger for the human race ever? Hell no, but I prefer having a stiff arm for a day over some serious flu infection.
On November 22 2009 09:31 Mango wrote:@ Captain Mayhem:
Compared to the normal flue young people have a higher chance of dying. That combined with the higher infection rate creates a risk for that group as well compared to the normal flu.
Hehe, I'm not gonna believe you until I see some proof It's near impossible for me to find a credible source that says the swine flu is more lethal than the regular one (apart from being more easily caught), so I'm afraid I must ask one of you to be able to agree.
I don't doubt you that much, though. That chart was mainly for the people/person who said that the younger people who get infected are more likely to die than the older who are. So, it was a older vs younger comparison. Not a H1N1 vs seasonal flu comparison.
On November 22 2009 09:31 Mango wrote:@ Captain Mayhem:
Compared to the normal flue young people have a higher chance of dying. That combined with the higher infection rate creates a risk for that group as well compared to the normal flu.
Hehe, I'm not gonna believe you until I see some proof It's near impossible for me to find a credible source that says the swine flu is more lethal than the regular one (apart from being more easily caught), so I'm afraid I must ask one of you to be able to agree.
I don't doubt you that much, though. That chart was mainly for the people/person who said that the younger people who get infected are more likely to die than the older who are. So, it was a older vs younger comparison. Not a H1N1 vs seasonal flu comparison.
You do realize that your wonderful pie-chart actually proves my point, not the other way around? I said it is more dangerous for young people than the normal flu. Your pie-chart has more than 50% of the deaths in the age group 0-49. Since I'm lazy I won't find you a pie-chart for the seasonal flu for you but I dare you to find one with more than 20% deaths in the aforementioned age group.
On November 22 2009 09:31 Mango wrote:@ Captain Mayhem:
Compared to the normal flue young people have a higher chance of dying. That combined with the higher infection rate creates a risk for that group as well compared to the normal flu.
Hehe, I'm not gonna believe you until I see some proof It's near impossible for me to find a credible source that says the swine flu is more lethal than the regular one (apart from being more easily caught), so I'm afraid I must ask one of you to be able to agree.
I don't doubt you that much, though. That chart was mainly for the people/person who said that the younger people who get infected are more likely to die than the older who are. So, it was a older vs younger comparison. Not a H1N1 vs seasonal flu comparison.
You do realize that your wonderful pie-chart actually proves my point, not the other way around? I said it is more dangerous for young people than the normal flu. Your pie-chart has more than 50% of the deaths in the age group 0-49. Since I'm lazy I won't find you a pie-chart for the seasonal flu for you but I dare you to find one with more than 20% deaths in the aforementioned age group.
1: Consider how big the distribution is in the age groups. It has been stated earlier in the thread that young people catch the swine flu easier. 2: Consider how many people there are in each group. I don't think half of the world's population is over 50 years old, to be honest. Do you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Median_age.png
I've come down with something recently. I have both vaccines though, so it's obviously not H1N1 ^^
It isn't clearly and obviously more dangerous than the normal flu. I guess the main danger is the possibility of a mutating strain or the high communicability.
On November 22 2009 03:28 TanGeng wrote: Taking to everyone is by far the better idea, although you will have to use proper judgement on discounting or discrediting the opinions of certain peoples.
Doctors might be medical professionals but it doesn't mean that they aren't trying to sell you something that you might not need. Advice on the internet also doesn't cost any money to get unlike your visit to the doctors.
The internet wouldn't be nearly as popular if everyone thought that advice should be bought out of people.
But who do you believe on the internet?
And your previous post about risks of getting mexican flu by the vaccination: it's a dead version of the virus they give you, with dead meaning you ain't getting the flu from it.
@ Captain Mayhem:
Compared to the normal flue young people have a higher chance of dying. That combined with the higher infection rate creates a risk for that group as well compared to the normal flu.
Now I did get the vaccination as well and didn't have any side-effects from it besides a stiff arm for a day. But the vaccination is for free here, so why would you not get it? The risks of the vaccination are severly overrated, they used the same basis as all other vaccinations you got already, and you are still alive right? Do I think the virus is the most potent danger for the human race ever? Hell no, but I prefer having a stiff arm for a day over some serious flu infection.
Who to trust? Use your judgment. Unconditionally trusting people is just asking for someone to take advantage of you.
Immunity derived from live/dead vaccine is very well perfect in theory, but the vaccine that the person on the street receives goes through industrial production and distribution. Dead vaccines may not be completely dead. Live vaccines may not be completely weakened. Probabilistically, it works well enough to grant some level of immunity. There's plenty of trade off though.
Dead vaccines should not reproduce so it's protection against whatever protein is there. Live vaccines are just weaker so it produces a more noticeable immune response, but usually results in a stronger immunity. Recipients can be mildly contagious during such a periods. Actual results vary depending on industrial process and many other factors.
Proteins don't just trigger immune responses just because they are there. There's plenty of protein in the human bloodstream and the immune systems has to be very discriminant as to avoid developing auto-immune disorders. Vaccines are usually packed with irritants designed to trigger an immune response and then carry along that immune response to the viral protein. If the immune response is too weak, then the inoculation will only be partially effective. Too few antigens will have been made for the body to be able to unconditionally fight off an invasion. It's better than nothing, but less than ideal.
Distributing the vaccine introduces the problem of preserving proteins until site of injection. The vaccines are packed with preservatives with various side-effects. The additives may produce a strong allergic reaction so those with known allergies to vaccines should avoid most if not all vaccines.
Now with respect to virus that mutate, the immunity doesn't last that long. If the virus partially mutates then the immunity is partially effective. Impossible to inoculate doesn't mean that the body can't develop an immune response to counter a disease. It just means that a virus mutates too quickly for vaccines to have effectiveness when they are available on the market.
When applied to the flu, the main benefit in the vaccine is the peace of mind. It's not a clear cut choice between getting the vaccine or getting sick. First of all, there is only a chance that a person will come down with the flu. After that, the flu may have already mutated enough to make the vaccine largely ineffective. Lastly, there are many risks involved in the industrial process required in producing these vaccines.
There are no incurable diseases. The poisen of denatured processed so-called "food" is what causes diseases. It's not food though. It's a foreign substance that invokes a white blood cell attack. Cease ingestion of poisen and the body fully heals itself always.
.... people who think the vaccines themselves can be a sizable risk ( or even a small one) should simply realize the oath medical doctors have to make.
I could have the vaccine soon I guess, I´m not sure if I should but I´m going to army soon and I probably will get some disease there anyways.
Didnt read the thread, just wanna say that several of my friends got the vaccine, some little side effects, their arms hurt for a day but that was all, now their fine.
I am going to tell you my humble opinion... I am more afraid of the traffic than the H1N1.
What is the worst it can do? Kill you? dude you can die in your house with the most stupid shit... to be honest we all going to die. And no this is not a media hype it is what happens to the human body, it grows old and die or you get in to some stupid accident and thats it.
What concerns me is that this H1N1 things is a fear that is some how "injected" in to us. It is not normal, and the ones that are trying to scare us might do it for a reason... have you heard about any other vaccine being *mandatory*? why are they trying to force that on to the population?
and then this:
“It’s interesting to note that the President’s children have not gotten their shots and the explanation for this is it hasn’t been available to them – now that’s a little bit hard to buy when you think that probably anything the President wants can be available for their children,” said Paul, adding, “So in a way he’s made his decision not to give his children these inoculations – so if he has freedom of choice on this, I would like to make sure that all the American people have the same amount of freedom of choice.”
Others have echoed similar sentiments. “Surely if there is a national emergency and if the President and First Lady of the United States wanted flu shots for their daughters, they could get them. It is certainly connected to our national security right? I mean the president needs to have his wits about him 24/7 not worrying over sick children. Could this instead be yet another case of “do as I say, not as I do” from the Obama administration?” writes Cathryn Friar.
Paul compared Obama’s hypocrisy to politicians who lobby for the virtues of public education yet in every instance educate their own children privately.
“The biggest champions of public education make sure their kids never get public education, they always get private education where there’s a lot better choices than the kind of system they’re promoting,” said the Congressman.
Obama certainly isn’t stupid enough to inject his own kids with the same toxic soup that he encourages the idiot public to receive, and will probably be keen on getting access to the special additive-free swine flu shots produced by Baxter International that have been made available for the elite.
As Spiegel Online reported earlier this month, German Chancellor Angela Merkel and government ministers received a mercury and squalene-free H1N1 vaccine. “The Vakzin [vaccine] does not contain disputed additives — contrary to the vaccine for the remainder of the population,” reported the newspaper. Soldiers in the German army were also given the adjuvant-free vaccine.
Employees of the Paul Ehrlich Institute in Germany also received the “green” inoculation after their president Johannes Löwer labeled the vaccine a greater threat than the virus itself.
Löwer’s comment came after German lung specialist Wolfgang Wodarg said the vaccine increases the risk of cancer. The nutrient solution for the vaccine consists of cancerous cells from animals.
I mean those things look quite weird and I would rather QUESTION this vaccine thing until the bitter end.
on the side note... I am not a fan of David Icke and anything of the sort but that video about the vaccine brings up several things that we should at least *think* about. I don't buy the whole conspiracy theory (I think is silly and very similar to any other religion)but it is true that our immune system is being altered consciously or not with so many medicaments, additives in food and way too many vaccines even before your body has its system up and running.
Also note that they were already trying to scare people with the swine flu on the 70's!!!
The more I research the more I see that this whole thing is weird... I would rather be careful.
I do think that people on risk should be on the safe side but I wouldnt take this myself, I rather die letting my body fight this thing than going under some suspicious medicine that not even the doctors are sure if it works and the leaders are not willing to take under any circumstance.
On November 22 2009 09:31 Mango wrote:@ Captain Mayhem:
Compared to the normal flue young people have a higher chance of dying. That combined with the higher infection rate creates a risk for that group as well compared to the normal flu.
Hehe, I'm not gonna believe you until I see some proof It's near impossible for me to find a credible source that says the swine flu is more lethal than the regular one (apart from being more easily caught), so I'm afraid I must ask one of you to be able to agree.
I don't doubt you that much, though. That chart was mainly for the people/person who said that the younger people who get infected are more likely to die than the older who are. So, it was a older vs younger comparison. Not a H1N1 vs seasonal flu comparison.
You do realize that your wonderful pie-chart actually proves my point, not the other way around? I said it is more dangerous for young people than the normal flu. Your pie-chart has more than 50% of the deaths in the age group 0-49. Since I'm lazy I won't find you a pie-chart for the seasonal flu for you but I dare you to find one with more than 20% deaths in the aforementioned age group.
1: Consider how big the distribution is in the age groups. It has been stated earlier in the thread that young people catch the swine flu easier. 2: Consider how many people there are in each group. I don't think half of the world's population is over 50 years old, to be honest. Do you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Median_age.png
You're really talking about things you don't know.
Young people ( <49 years old) don't die from regular flu. Your chart is showing half of the dead people are young. H1N1 will kill less people than regular flu, but old weak people die from regular flu every year, and from every single other kind of infections. Young don't, that 's where is the difference. Still the risk of dying from getting H1N1 is still low , but personnaly I'd prefer not to take it.
I started feeling the full effects of swine flu yesterday. to me, it was way worse than any regular flu ive ever had and well, I wish I had gotten the vaccine ;p
On November 22 2009 09:31 Mango wrote:@ Captain Mayhem:
Compared to the normal flue young people have a higher chance of dying. That combined with the higher infection rate creates a risk for that group as well compared to the normal flu.
Hehe, I'm not gonna believe you until I see some proof It's near impossible for me to find a credible source that says the swine flu is more lethal than the regular one (apart from being more easily caught), so I'm afraid I must ask one of you to be able to agree.
I don't doubt you that much, though. That chart was mainly for the people/person who said that the younger people who get infected are more likely to die than the older who are. So, it was a older vs younger comparison. Not a H1N1 vs seasonal flu comparison.
You do realize that your wonderful pie-chart actually proves my point, not the other way around? I said it is more dangerous for young people than the normal flu. Your pie-chart has more than 50% of the deaths in the age group 0-49. Since I'm lazy I won't find you a pie-chart for the seasonal flu for you but I dare you to find one with more than 20% deaths in the aforementioned age group.
1: Consider how big the distribution is in the age groups. It has been stated earlier in the thread that young people catch the swine flu easier. 2: Consider how many people there are in each group. I don't think half of the world's population is over 50 years old, to be honest. Do you? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Median_age.png
You're really talking about things you don't know.
Young people ( <49 years old) don't die from regular flu. Your chart is showing half of the dead people are young. H1N1 will kill less people than regular flu, but old weak people die from regular flu every year, and from every single other kind of infections. Young don't, that 's where is the difference. Still the risk of dying from getting H1N1 is still low , but personnaly I'd prefer not to take it.
Just... wow.
I'm not even gonna bother anymore. Not a single one is even trying to back their shit up. As I've said before, go ahead and do whatever you want. I couldn't care less. All I was trying to do was give you guys some straight up FACTS to clear out some things in this thread, if you're still intent on getting a vaccination, then fine by me. But don't tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about if you're not going to prove that you do yourself.
And for the bolded part; yes, they do. Already weak young people have a high risk of dying from the regular flu if they get the full effect, just like with H1N1.
I still don't get the difference between regular flu and this particular strain. I believe one of the only differences are respritory effects and I have yet to hear of a single person around me who has it.
I really just think this is your typical flu scare, good hygiene probably would be the best vaccine for anyone.
FML I have the flu again after having had it like 3 weeks ago. I didn't get either vaccine, so it's likely I had H1N1 and now have the seasonal flu, or the other way around, not sure. When I had the flu last time my temperature peaked around 100.4 (when I had taken it, but it could have been higher during one of those nights) and now it seems to be hovering around the same place, more or less, at 100.7.
Aaaand I'm flying to Hamburg, Germany tomorrow to attend a Model United Nations conference on Thursday. FML.
I have no sympathy for the flu as I've never had one in 20 years of my life experience or vaccinated for any flu unless it was when I was a child people just; people just need to be dirty children more it's how I built up my immune system
The mortality rate of the flu is projected to be no higher than the mortality rate of any given seasonal flu it's just that this flu is a different strain so that's a higher infection rate with us the people getting sick and thus the people dying or becoming agitated or whatever it's higher; strictly speaking just the numbers not in percentage or ratio people basically not in context this flu sucks.
As far as getting vaccines; vaccines help you fight the flu for the rest of your life or something similar to that flu so not getting vaccine when one easily can and seems like poor decision making and just not the chance of something bad happening is fairly remote and unless you are like those parents that blame vaccines for their child's autism you should have no reason not to get the vaccine that isn't to some extent irrational if one readily can get the vaccine.
I have too much on my mind to get sick at the moment - so i would get the vaccine if i could. If this semester was like any other and i didn't have 15 buddies comming over to help me and my GF move to the 5th floor on saturday i wouldn't even consider getting it.
The reason is, that i am currently working with a study conserning how mercury (And other heavy metals) can affect your brain tissue in the long run (In this study related to alzheimer's).. And i'ts not looking good.
nobody finding it strange that its baxter who manufactures and profits on the vaccine? the same company who made vaccines against the bird flu and "accidentally" shipped a load of vaccines _infected_ with bird flu? I normally dont care much about conspiracy theories, but when facts stack up like this its just hard to ignore. Imo its hugely probable that the swine flu came out of baxters laboratories in the first place. Im not gonna get the vaccine, even if I personally have disadvantages from it. But thats what standing in for your believes consequently means imo.
LOL at all the demagogy and conspiracy theories in this thread. People like this deserve not to be vaccinated, go on, use your right to refuse anything. Just please stop spreading your propaganda, unless you're medically qualified. (And no, knowing someone who has heard of someone medically qualified doesnt count.)
As for the vaccination itself, I got vaccinated yesterday morning, and felt perfectly fine ever since.
On November 24 2009 19:38 538 wrote: LOL at all the demagogy and conspiracy theories in this thread. People like this deserve not to be vaccinated, go on, use your right to refuse anything. Just please stop spreading your propaganda, unless you're medically qualified. (And no, knowing someone who has heard of someone medically qualified doesnt count.)
As for the vaccination itself, I got vaccinated yesterday morning, and felt perfectly fine ever since.
Dude its not propaganda Im just stating cold hard facts and ask questions... Use your brain on the facts provided and couple it with the harsh market conditions, the ignorance of basic moral values for profit (see bank crisis) and the media hype about swine flu these days. If you don't at least admit its highly fishy that a company ships "accidentally" infected vaccines it is you who refuses critical thought. As I said in my first post, I normally laugh at conspiracy theories, but this is not me following some dumb theory, its just me thinking about a cpl of facts and believe me I would rather come to another conclusion, but sometimes its just hard to swallow all those "accidents" and "coincidents" when there is a ton of people profiting from them.
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
Negative. The vaccine is a way of keeping societies healthy.
Roger That, oh sorry... N E G A T I V E !! .. the vaccine is to keep the medicine-business in money. they medicine corporate bosses are the guys that are friends with some of the people the parlament and media owners. its easy way to make money, when you hype danger and death to public.
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
Negative. The vaccine is a way of keeping societies healthy.
Roger That, oh sorry... N E G A T I V E !! .. the vaccine is to keep the medicine-business in money. they medicine corporate bosses are the guys that are friends with some of the people the parlament and media owners. its easy way to make money, when you hype danger and death to public.
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
students have died from this. if you can get the vaccine, get it. it's no more dangerous than a nomral flu shot and you're not just protecting yourself when you get it, you're protecting the people who you might otherwise transmit the virus too. h1n1 really isn't that dangerous, but a flu shot is a lot less dangerous.
One of the first sentences I read: "This student had significant and serious health problems before contracting H1N1, the newspaper said." Another: "Further, he said that people with serious health problems are much more likely than others to be hit hard by H1N1." I hope I'm not taking anything too much out of context by quoting that.
Students die from the regular flu as well. It's really not that much of a deal to the average person. But I'm not stopping anyone from taking it, just saying that there's not really any reason to if you haven't gotten a vaccine from any other flu before
I'm to lazy to find swedish sources of deaths and if they were in any risk groups but I'll give you the hospitalizations.
Under 5 years old: 20 5-14 years old: 17 15-39 years old: 68 40-65 years old: 54 over 65 years old: 8
Source: Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå.
While having to stay at a hospital wont equal death it's most likely mean that you are really ill and I think the numbers speak for themselves.
EDIT:Damn, too late. You gave up TT.
What is the meaning of this post if youre too lazy to find sources wether or not these people were in risk groups? Afaik everyone in sweden who DIED from h1n1 was in a risk group, but hey, im too lazy to find sources for that statement.
Edit: Im definitelly not taking the vaccine, and if i die from h1n1 i give you all the right to dance on my grave. Just as i completelly take the right to say lololol told you so nubs if you would go blind or whatever in 50 years because of taking a over hyped vaccine shot.
On November 24 2009 19:38 538 wrote: LOL at all the demagogy and conspiracy theories in this thread. People like this deserve not to be vaccinated, go on, use your right to refuse anything. Just please stop spreading your propaganda, unless you're medically qualified. (And no, knowing someone who has heard of someone medically qualified doesnt count.)
As for the vaccination itself, I got vaccinated yesterday morning, and felt perfectly fine ever since.
Dude its not propaganda Im just stating cold hard facts and ask questions... Use your brain on the facts provided and couple it with the harsh market conditions, the ignorance of basic moral values for profit (see bank crisis) and the media hype about swine flu these days. If you don't at least admit its highly fishy that a company ships "accidentally" infected vaccines it is you who refuses critical thought. As I said in my first post, I normally laugh at conspiracy theories, but this is not me following some dumb theory, its just me thinking about a cpl of facts and believe me I would rather come to another conclusion, but sometimes its just hard to swallow all those "accidents" and "coincidents" when there is a ton of people profiting from them.
I dont want to engage deeply in this debate, yet I have to ask you: do you even know how do vaccinations work? They CONTAIN the virus, weakened down, so your immune system can develop immunity on its own. Hence, the existence of "infested" vaccines is not as delibrerate an error as it may seem in the eyes of someone prone to some social hysteria. (If they did have such vaccines shipped at all, I didnt bother looking it up.)
Why is it that critical thought is only valid when its applied against the popular opinion? There is no Umbrella Corp.
On November 24 2009 19:38 538 wrote: LOL at all the demagogy and conspiracy theories in this thread. People like this deserve not to be vaccinated, go on, use your right to refuse anything. Just please stop spreading your propaganda, unless you're medically qualified. (And no, knowing someone who has heard of someone medically qualified doesnt count.)
As for the vaccination itself, I got vaccinated yesterday morning, and felt perfectly fine ever since.
Dude its not propaganda Im just stating cold hard facts and ask questions... Use your brain on the facts provided and couple it with the harsh market conditions, the ignorance of basic moral values for profit (see bank crisis) and the media hype about swine flu these days. If you don't at least admit its highly fishy that a company ships "accidentally" infected vaccines it is you who refuses critical thought. As I said in my first post, I normally laugh at conspiracy theories, but this is not me following some dumb theory, its just me thinking about a cpl of facts and believe me I would rather come to another conclusion, but sometimes its just hard to swallow all those "accidents" and "coincidents" when there is a ton of people profiting from them.
Man you know those doctor people? The ones that spent the better part of a decade learning about medicine and disease? They know all about how vaccines are poison and its just corporations profiting. That's why when healthcare workers at hospitals are mandated to get vaccinated they totally flip out and protest because they know viruses are murder. They totally understand the biology of how viruses are manufactured and how they "protect" people and they know vaccinations are both useless and will kill you so they never get any vaccinations. Only really retarded people would ever get vaccinated since there's a huge body of information out there that says vaccines are dangerous.
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
students have died from this. if you can get the vaccine, get it. it's no more dangerous than a nomral flu shot and you're not just protecting yourself when you get it, you're protecting the people who you might otherwise transmit the virus too. h1n1 really isn't that dangerous, but a flu shot is a lot less dangerous.
One of the first sentences I read: "This student had significant and serious health problems before contracting H1N1, the newspaper said." Another: "Further, he said that people with serious health problems are much more likely than others to be hit hard by H1N1." I hope I'm not taking anything too much out of context by quoting that.
Students die from the regular flu as well. It's really not that much of a deal to the average person. But I'm not stopping anyone from taking it, just saying that there's not really any reason to if you haven't gotten a vaccine from any other flu before
I'm to lazy to find swedish sources of deaths and if they were in any risk groups but I'll give you the hospitalizations.
Under 5 years old: 20 5-14 years old: 17 15-39 years old: 68 40-65 years old: 54 over 65 years old: 8
Source: Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå.
While having to stay at a hospital wont equal death it's most likely mean that you are really ill and I think the numbers speak for themselves.
EDIT:Damn, too late. You gave up TT.
What is the meaning of this post if youre too lazy to find sources wether or not these people were in risk groups? Afaik everyone in sweden who DIED from h1n1 was in a risk group, but hey, im too lazy to find sources for that statement.
Edit: Im definitelly not taking the vaccine, and if i die from h1n1 i give you all the right to dance on my grave. Just as i completelly take the right to say lololol told you so nubs if you would go blind or whatever in 50 years because of taking a over hyped vaccine shot.
The meaning of my post was to show that the age group 15-39 seems to have the majority of people who get really sick from the flu. For seasonal flu it's generally old people. In 50years I'm pretty old so I dont really care. On the other hand all my grandparents are alive and well above 80. Were will your grave be located?
On November 21 2009 01:17 Amber[LighT] wrote: I got the regular flu vaccine since it's more dangerous and the shot was free from my job.
Swine Flu doesn't scare me.
That's incorrect. Swine flu is more dangerous for people of our age (15-35 ?) , without chronic disease. It's the opposite for older sick people.
So, why haven't I read anything in the news about people below the age of 40 who died from it? You'd think that the journalists would be more than happy to post that, since all they've got over here are a handful of people above 40, who all had asthma, cancer and such conditions beside the swine flu.
Risk patients, who got the vaccine FIRST, were all people with chronic diseases, hospital staff and school children. The 20-35 year old "clean" group will most probably get it last.
Actually, in Canada, most of the deaths from H1N1 have been below the age of 40 some with asthma and some without.
Could you post a source of that? Because, as I said earlier, this flu is actually MILDER than the regular one. I've got that confirmed from more than one doctor so far, so your results would be rather strange.
Fun thing, if you've got time left over THE FOLLOWING MESSAGE IS FOR EVERYBODY! Find a reliable source, ask your local doctor, or anything of the sorts. Check how many have been infected by the virus so far, and compare to how many have died from it. Worldwide. Now do the same with the regular flu.
The ONLY reason it's so scary is because it's a brand new strain, and that we don't have any resistance to it yet. NOT because it's especially deadly.
students have died from this. if you can get the vaccine, get it. it's no more dangerous than a nomral flu shot and you're not just protecting yourself when you get it, you're protecting the people who you might otherwise transmit the virus too. h1n1 really isn't that dangerous, but a flu shot is a lot less dangerous.
One of the first sentences I read: "This student had significant and serious health problems before contracting H1N1, the newspaper said." Another: "Further, he said that people with serious health problems are much more likely than others to be hit hard by H1N1." I hope I'm not taking anything too much out of context by quoting that.
Students die from the regular flu as well. It's really not that much of a deal to the average person. But I'm not stopping anyone from taking it, just saying that there's not really any reason to if you haven't gotten a vaccine from any other flu before
I'm to lazy to find swedish sources of deaths and if they were in any risk groups but I'll give you the hospitalizations.
Under 5 years old: 20 5-14 years old: 17 15-39 years old: 68 40-65 years old: 54 over 65 years old: 8
Source: Tidningarnas Telegrambyrå.
While having to stay at a hospital wont equal death it's most likely mean that you are really ill and I think the numbers speak for themselves.
EDIT:Damn, too late. You gave up TT.
What is the meaning of this post if youre too lazy to find sources wether or not these people were in risk groups? Afaik everyone in sweden who DIED from h1n1 was in a risk group, but hey, im too lazy to find sources for that statement.
Edit: Im definitelly not taking the vaccine, and if i die from h1n1 i give you all the right to dance on my grave. Just as i completelly take the right to say lololol told you so nubs if you would go blind or whatever in 50 years because of taking a over hyped vaccine shot.
The meaning of my post was to show that the age group 15-39 seems to have the majority of people who get really sick from the flu. For seasonal flu it's generally old people. In 50years I'm pretty old so I dont really care. On the other hand all my grandparents are alive and well above 80. Were will your grave be located?
You're a sheep. Propaganda is your shephard. One would have thought people would have learned by now.
Edit: So the majority of the infected are in between 15 and 65. Thats basically most of the population anyway, specially those who go to work or school and bunch up in buildings and infect each other. Why do you post these numbers, making conclusions, without even reflecting over them? Oh right, you're to lazy.
edit2:
15-39 years old: 68 (24 year interval) 40-65 years old: 54 (15 year interval)
Why dont you just say that 167 people between 0-100 went to hospital. OMG EVERYBODY WILL BE AFFECTED AND GO TO HOSPITAL AAAAH!
On November 24 2009 19:38 538 wrote: LOL at all the demagogy and conspiracy theories in this thread. People like this deserve not to be vaccinated, go on, use your right to refuse anything. Just please stop spreading your propaganda, unless you're medically qualified. (And no, knowing someone who has heard of someone medically qualified doesnt count.)
As for the vaccination itself, I got vaccinated yesterday morning, and felt perfectly fine ever since.
Dude its not propaganda Im just stating cold hard facts and ask questions... Use your brain on the facts provided and couple it with the harsh market conditions, the ignorance of basic moral values for profit (see bank crisis) and the media hype about swine flu these days. If you don't at least admit its highly fishy that a company ships "accidentally" infected vaccines it is you who refuses critical thought. As I said in my first post, I normally laugh at conspiracy theories, but this is not me following some dumb theory, its just me thinking about a cpl of facts and believe me I would rather come to another conclusion, but sometimes its just hard to swallow all those "accidents" and "coincidents" when there is a ton of people profiting from them.
I dont want to engage deeply in this debate, yet I have to ask you: do you even know how do vaccinations work? They CONTAIN the virus, weakened down, so your immune system can develop immunity on its own. Hence, the existence of "infested" vaccines is not as delibrerate an error as it may seem in the eyes of someone prone to some social hysteria. (If they did have such vaccines shipped at all, I didnt bother looking it up.)
Why is it that critical thought is only valid when its applied against the popular opinion? There is no Umbrella Corp.
Lol... Just keep watching tv man, and bash those idiotic conspiracy theorists on the internet based on your infinite wisdom... Oh and by the way, I know how vaccines work, thx! My gf studies pharmacy and came to the same conclusion many doctors and chemists who actually know a laboratory from the inside drew: Its virtually impossible to infest a vaccine by accident and then ship it out, especially with deadly viruses like avian flu. What security regulations do you think those laboratories have?? I guess its futile arguing with you, you dont even spend your time on looking shit up on the internet so its completely out of the question you would ever ask a pharmacist, doctor or bio-chemist about the case, that could be too much scientific information! Instead, keep on being uninformed and treating people like dumb retards by enlightening them with your petty common knowledge.
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
Negative. The vaccine is a way of keeping societies healthy.
Roger That, oh sorry... N E G A T I V E !! .. the vaccine is to keep the medicine-business in money. they medicine corporate bosses are the guys that are friends with some of the people the parlament and media owners. its easy way to make money, when you hype danger and death to public.
anyone agree with me?
because you make a shit ton of money by creating a vaccine, and then hand it out freely to every person in the country [atleast this is the case in sweden]? yeah...
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
Negative. The vaccine is a way of keeping societies healthy.
Roger That, oh sorry... N E G A T I V E !! .. the vaccine is to keep the medicine-business in money. they medicine corporate bosses are the guys that are friends with some of the people the parlament and media owners. its easy way to make money, when you hype danger and death to public.
anyone agree with me?
because you make a shit ton of money by creating a vaccine, and then hand it out freely to every person in the country [atleast this is the case in sweden]? yeah...
Let's not be naive on the other end of the debate either: They do get money for the vaccines, obviously, lets not have any doubts about that, it's just that they dont get that money directly from the people, but the government's public health departments.
On November 24 2009 19:38 538 wrote: LOL at all the demagogy and conspiracy theories in this thread. People like this deserve not to be vaccinated, go on, use your right to refuse anything. Just please stop spreading your propaganda, unless you're medically qualified. (And no, knowing someone who has heard of someone medically qualified doesnt count.)
As for the vaccination itself, I got vaccinated yesterday morning, and felt perfectly fine ever since.
Dude its not propaganda Im just stating cold hard facts and ask questions... Use your brain on the facts provided and couple it with the harsh market conditions, the ignorance of basic moral values for profit (see bank crisis) and the media hype about swine flu these days. If you don't at least admit its highly fishy that a company ships "accidentally" infected vaccines it is you who refuses critical thought. As I said in my first post, I normally laugh at conspiracy theories, but this is not me following some dumb theory, its just me thinking about a cpl of facts and believe me I would rather come to another conclusion, but sometimes its just hard to swallow all those "accidents" and "coincidents" when there is a ton of people profiting from them.
I dont want to engage deeply in this debate, yet I have to ask you: do you even know how do vaccinations work? They CONTAIN the virus, weakened down, so your immune system can develop immunity on its own. Hence, the existence of "infested" vaccines is not as delibrerate an error as it may seem in the eyes of someone prone to some social hysteria. (If they did have such vaccines shipped at all, I didnt bother looking it up.)
Why is it that critical thought is only valid when its applied against the popular opinion? There is no Umbrella Corp.
Lol... Just keep watching tv man, and bash those idiotic conspiracy theorists on the internet based on your infinite wisdom... Oh and by the way, I know how vaccines work, thx! My gf studies pharmacy and came to the same conclusion many doctors and chemists who actually know a laboratory from the inside drew: Its virtually impossible to infest a vaccine by accident and then ship it out, especially with deadly viruses like avian flu. What security regulations do you think those laboratories have?? I guess its futile arguing with you, you dont even spend your time on looking shit up on the internet so its completely out of the question you would ever ask a pharmacist, doctor or bio-chemist about the case, that could be too much scientific information! Instead, keep on being uninformed and treating people like dumb retards by enlightening them with your petty common knowledge.
Yes, thankfully I dont spend too much time arguing over the internet. (Let alone watching tv, but that's none of your business.) I didnt claim those shipments weren't made. It would be easier for both of us if you just cited some sources. I dont need walls of text copied here, the links will do.
On November 21 2009 02:03 Foucault wrote: I'm with Captain Mayhem. The vaccine is a huge waste of money
Negative. The vaccine is a way of keeping societies healthy.
Roger That, oh sorry... N E G A T I V E !! .. the vaccine is to keep the medicine-business in money. they medicine corporate bosses are the guys that are friends with some of the people the parlament and media owners. its easy way to make money, when you hype danger and death to public.
anyone agree with me?
Of course they're going to make money off of it. That's not nearly enough proof to make that kind of an accusation though. That's just ridiculous.
Besides, you can make that argument just as easily with global warming. A relatively unknown topic comes out of no where that claims to threaten the well-being of billions of people. There is a sudden sense of insecurity and danger in the minds of billions of people over a subject we know very little about. The public is looking for some sense of relief and the government responds with major overhauls in many aspects of American business and industry. Now, with more time and research, we discover that methane, a by-product of cow defecation, is 21 times more powerful of a greenhouse gas than CO2. Now we don't even know if the major overhauls in industry are significant.
Meanwhile, one of the forefathers and main promoters of global warming awareness and prevention, Al Gore, has made millions of dollars from his companies that benefit directly from the major overhauls caused by global warming prevention.
I don't see you getting your panties in a bunch over this.
EPT
