Honestly, this is a really cool story. tl;dr version is...on a Mississippi school bus, a girl pulled a gun out of her bag and started waving it around threatening to shoot people. This guy got up, opened the emergency exit in the back and tried to get everyone to escape while keeping the gunman's attention on him. Then while trying to talk to her, he sees an opening when she looked away or blinked or something and tackles her, disarming her.
The guy said, "I just tried to catch her attention to get the girl to point the gun directly at me and not at anyone else".
By Mike Celizic TODAYShow.com contributor updated 6:44 a.m. PT, Thurs., Sept . 3, 2009
This one wasn’t in the playbook. So, when a 14-year-old girl waved a loaded gun on a Mississippi school bus, high school quarterback Kaleb Eulls called his own play — and made a life-saving tackle for the record books.
It was just before 7 a.m. Tuesday. Eulls, star player for Yazoo County High School, was dozing in the back of the bus, lulled by the tunes on his MP3 player, when his 16-year-old sister, Kimberly, roused him from slumber with an urgent piece of news: “Kaleb, the girl has a gun.”
The bus was carrying 22 children ranging in age from 5 to 18. And Eulls, who excels both as a quarterback and a defensive end, wasted no time going into action.
Waving a weapon “I just immediately woke up and put my glasses on to see what was what, and she was just pointing the gun at different students at the back,” Eulls told TODAY’s Lester Holt Thursday from Pickens, Miss.
Surveillance video from the school bus shows that the girl had stood up earlier, taken out a cheap, chrome-plated .38 automatic handgun, slid a clip with five rounds of ammunition in it, and started walking up and down the aisle of the bus, brandishing the weapon.
“All I can tell from looking at the video is that she was very irate, and she was mad at somebody on the bus that she stated had been picking on her or messing with her,” said Yazoo County Sheriff Thomas Vaughan, who joined Eulls for the interview. “I don’t know what she was doing with the gun, but the way she was pointing it at everybody, if it would have went off even one time, it would have been very sad for some family.”
Eulls wasn’t about to let that happen. The girl, whose name is not being released because of her age, had ordered the bus driver to pull over. Eulls first opened the emergency door in the back and told the other kids to get off the bus. At the same time, he tried to get the girl to focus on him.
“I just tried to catch her attention to get the girl to point the gun directly at me and not at anyone else,” Eulls said.
‘I just lunged’ For several tense minutes, as panicked kids tried to get off the bus, Eulls faced the girl, calmly telling her to either give him the gun or put it down. He told Holt that he was aware that he could have been shot, but if the girl was going to pull the trigger, he would rather that she shot him instead of one of his three younger sisters or another student.
“I just tried to calm her down and tried to get the gun away from her, to give it to me or just put it down,” Eulls told Holt. As he faced her down, he looked for an opportunity to act.
Finally, she gave him the opening he needed — and at that crucial moment, his instincts as a defensive lineman took over.
“As she glanced or blinked for half a second, I just lunged at her,” Eulls said.
When the girl went down, she dropped the gun. The video shows Eulls getting up, holding the weapon aloft to show that the girl was disarmed. With the girl in pursuit, trying to get the gun back, he jumped out of the back of the bus.
Winning play Sheriff Vaughan was effusive in his praise of Eulls.
“He made the absolute right call. If it had not been for what he did on that bus, there would be a lot of sad families today,” Vaughan told Holt.
“He made the statement to one of my deputies that if she was going to shoot anyone, he would rather she shoot him,” Vaughan added in an interview with The Clarion-Ledger newspaper. “Watching him do that and him doing such a heroic act and not even caring about his own safety, that’s something you don’t see every day.”
But Eulls isn’t someone that Yazoo County sees every day. The 6-foot-4, 255-pound senior star is one of Mississippi’s “Dandy Dozen,” a designation given to the 12 best high school football players in the state. He’s already committed to play his college ball with Mississippi State as a defensive player.
He’s also an honor-roll student with a grade point average over 3.5.
Vaughan told the local newspaper that the gun the girl had is a cheap weapon with a propensity for accidental firing. Police were still trying to determine where she got it. The girl was taken to a juvenile detention facility and charged with 22 counts of attempted aggravated assault, 22 counts of kidnapping and one count of possession of a firearm on school property.
“It could have been terrible,” Vaughan told NBC News.
Thanks to the biggest play of Kaleb Eulls’ life, it wasn’t.
MSNBC has a horrible tendency to sensationalize these kinds of stories, so the article is written in a sort of ridiculous and over-the-top manner...but the story itself is still pretty cool. There's a video that has footage from the bus on the article's page.
I wonder who she wanted to Kill and why she didn't realize when perhaps her "target" got off the bus. but anyways, gj for the hero. Btw, What is GPA Really out of, 4 or 5.
On September 04 2009 05:54 On_Slaught wrote: That man is going to get more ass than a toilet seat because of this.
(woops misquote)
i don't think very many asses can resist him when he bears down on ppl anyways
lol and yeah the girl most likey weighed 1/3 his weight. shooting a guy his size anywhere but the head or heart with a cheap .38 prbly wouldn't have prevented him from taking her down anyways. not saying anything to demean his actions though, he's still a hero for what he did.
When I was in high school I took the dive at a gunner. Turns out the gun was fake. However everyone else in the lunch room turned instantly into pussies and ran away screaming or fell to the ground, I just said "fuck it" and charged at him. Got mentioned in the newspaper if I can find that clipping. Good times.
School shooting fuckers are the most pathetic imbeciles there are. Fucking ingrates.
The video shows Eulls getting up, holding the weapon aloft to show that the girl was disarmed. With the girl in pursuit, trying to get the gun back, he jumped out of the back of the bus.
He got the gun off her and then ran away armed, chased by the 14 year old girl?
The video shows Eulls getting up, holding the weapon aloft to show that the girl was disarmed. With the girl in pursuit, trying to get the gun back, he jumped out of the back of the bus.
He got the gun off her and then ran away armed, chased by the 14 year old girl?
Why not do that? You have the only thing that makes her dangerous so get away from her and let the authorities take her down while your getting the weapon away from her. If he stayed close she would have attacked him and you never know what could of happened in the struggle even if he had a huge physical advantage. She was only a threat when she had or was near the gun.
Since when did school buses have security cameras on them? It's like they're expecting shit like this lol. Its like Colorado schools and their 2-3 cop cars stationed per school.
I probably could have done more damage with my steyr 1-shot match air-pistol. Seriously, who do you think you are? 14 year old with a cheap-ass toy gun running around? Man, her parents must SUCK.
On September 04 2009 07:02 peidongyang wrote: I probably could have done more damage with my steyr 1-shot match air-pistol. Seriously, who do you think you are? 14 year old with a cheap-ass toy gun running around? Man, her parents must SUCK.
It always annoys the fuck out of me the ridiculous assumptions and bullshit that the people involved and the law enforcement say after the fact. no telling how many lives were saved", yea because she has infinite bullets and is a sharp shooter right? "there would be a lot of sad families if he wasn't there to stop her" fuck you, you don't fucking know that, are you psychic? Did redneck cop class teach you that all black kids are 100% murderers when they have a gun out?
This was a girl, she was young, probably dumb, she probably wouldn't have shot anyone. She probably didn't even know what the fuck she was doing. She most likely just brought the gun with intention of scaring everyone so they wouldn't fuck with her anymore.
This kid is no hero, he's either a dumb jock or just saw a really weak chick and read that she wasn't really gonna hurt anyone from her body language and just tackled her when opportune.
Just as suggested, this is overhyped sensationalized bullshit.
Holy shit CharlieMurphy, are you fucking serious? "he's either a dumb jock or just saw a really weak chick and read that she wasn't really gonna hurt anyone from her body language and just tackled her when opportune."
Saracen stop licking after Fanacist's scraps like you're some worm that can't find his own toliet to infest. I see you do this everywhere like you need his approval or some form of equivalent praise. It's disgusting. User was banned for this post.
On September 04 2009 07:34 ahswtini wrote: Yeah, the lengths some attention seekers go to, tackling someone with a loaded gun. Disgraceful.
If you are referring to my post, Don't put words in my mouth. I never said the kid was an attenion whore. All I'm saying is this obviously weak 14 year old girl who is resorting to scaring people with a gun is not very smart or dangerous.
Look at the anatomy of every other school shooting scenario, they plan that shit out, they block exits before hand, they pull out their weapons and unload asap.
This chick is waving it around trying to gain respect and intimidate. The guy just made a standard call taking the chick down when he had a chance.
He probably could have just as easily strolled off the bus with the rest of the kids and the girl woulda just made a scene for a few hours on the bus or some stupid shit.
I mean look how sloppy and casually this girl gets the gun out, loads it , walks around with it limply in her hand, starts making threats instead of actually doing anything.
I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just saying this is not awesome and is by no means heroic. "if not for the instincts of 18 year old football star.." blah blah american patriot propaganda. See guys! learning to play football and tackling people can save lives!
There was probably a higher chance of the gun accidentally going off then her actually trying to shoot some kids.
On September 04 2009 07:35 kdog3683 wrote: Saracen stop licking after Fanacist's scraps like you're some worm that can't find his own toliet to infest. I see you do this everywhere like you need his approval or some form of equivalent praise. It's disgusting. User was banned for this post.
On September 04 2009 07:34 ahswtini wrote: Yeah, the lengths some attention seekers go to, tackling someone with a loaded gun. Disgraceful.
If you are referring to my post, Don't put words in my mouth. I never said the kid was an attenion whore. All I'm saying is this obviously weak 14 year old girl who is resorting to scaring people with a gun is not very smart or dangerous.
Look at the anatomy of every other school shooting scenario, they plan that shit out, they block exits before hand, they pull out their weapons and unload asap.
This chick is waving it around trying to gain respect and intimidate. The guy just made a standard call taking the chick down when he had a chance.
He probably could have just as easily strolled off the bus with the rest of the kids and the girl woulda just made a scene for a few hours on the bus or some stupid shit.
I mean look how sloppy and casually this girl gets the gun out, loads it , walks around with it limply in her hand, starts making threats instead of actually doing anything.
CM i understand where your coming from, but hey man you gotta give this guy some credit. He evacuated the people on the bus and YOUR assuming that this girl was dumb and all. She did have a gun and all and if he didnt distract her somebody COULD have got killed. Your right we are not psychic and we are assuming that bad shit wouldve happened, but then again what if it did?
On September 04 2009 05:52 Aegraen wrote: A .38 with 5 rounds....She must have been blonde.
Guy still has some balls even though a .38 is the weakest gun imaginable with very little penetrating or stopping power.
You think he knew what kind of a gun she had or even cared? The guy did what 99% of the population would be too scared to do. He deserves more credit then that.
Like I said, I'm not just assuming the best like they are assuming the worst. I'm basing myself off the girl's known motivation, her body language, her age, her lack of planning. All of which was plainly obvious for anyone on the bus.
Sure the guy gets credit for stopping the dumb cunt from wasting more time than she already has but I don't think he saved any lives (except maybe if the gun went off accidentally or some other student scared her into shooting them). So the guy gets credit there, but other than that it's not what it's made out to be.
On September 04 2009 08:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I'm not just assuming the best like they are assuming the worst. I'm basing myself off the girl's known motivation, her body language, her age, her lack of planning. All of which was plainly obvious for anyone on the bus.
Sure the guy gets credit for stopping the dumb cunt from wasting more time than she already has but I don't think he saved any lives (except maybe if the gun went off accidentally or some other student scared her into shooting them). So the guy gets credit there, but other than that it's not what it's made out to be.
On September 04 2009 08:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I'm not just assuming the best like they are assuming the worst. I'm basing myself off the girl's known motivation, her body language, her age, her lack of planning. All of which was plainly obvious for anyone on the bus.
Sure the guy gets credit for stopping the dumb cunt from wasting more time than she already has but I don't think he saved any lives (except maybe if the gun went off accidentally or some other student scared her into shooting them). So the guy gets credit there, but other than that it's not what it's made out to be.
Oh didn't realize you were on that bus.
Yeah i agree, CM if you were on that bus would you think rationally and say fuck this cunt not only is a stupid dumb blonde that has no planning but shes also wasting her fucking time!. Then would you just sit there and be chill and all. I'm not attacking you or anyhing like that CM but im still confused, if someone has a gun whether it be a retarted girl like this or a real hijacker and is stopped by a selfless person, doesnt this person deserve an ultimate praise and reward?
On September 04 2009 07:25 CharlieMurphy wrote: It always annoys the fuck out of me the ridiculous assumptions and bullshit that the people involved and the law enforcement say after the fact. no telling how many lives were saved", yea because she has infinite bullets and is a sharp shooter right? "there would be a lot of sad families if he wasn't there to stop her" fuck you, you don't fucking know that, are you psychic? Did redneck cop class teach you that all black kids are 100% murderers when they have a gun out?
This was a girl, she was young, probably dumb, she probably wouldn't have shot anyone. She probably didn't even know what the fuck she was doing. She most likely just brought the gun with intention of scaring everyone so they wouldn't fuck with her anymore.
This kid is no hero, he's either a dumb jock or just saw a really weak chick and read that she wasn't really gonna hurt anyone from her body language and just tackled her when opportune.
Just as suggested, this is overhyped sensationalized bullshit.
He didn't want her sisters to get shot at which is why he got the girl to focus on him instead, he is also an honour student not a dumb jock, what the fuck is wrong with you? were you on the fucking bus? why are you talking about body language and all that bs? maybe you should become a negotiator or something cause clearly you can tell exactly whether or not someone with a gun is actually gonna use it
On September 04 2009 08:21 writer22816 wrote: lol @ 3.5 gpa
whats funny about 3.5 gpa? Thats good gpa for a football player ;o 3.5 out of 4 that is.
That's a respectable GPA for anyone, unless it's out of 5.
Charlie, I hope you're trolling because I know you aren't that stupid. It's a bit over the top in the article, and the "no telling how many lives were saved" is pretty ridiculous, because the maximum that could have been lost was 5, unless the .38 bullet did some really tricky shit on it's way out, which it probably wouldn't have gone out anyway since it's not a very powerful gun, but I digress.
On September 04 2009 07:25 CharlieMurphy wrote: It always annoys the fuck out of me the ridiculous assumptions and bullshit that the people involved and the law enforcement say after the fact. no telling how many lives were saved", yea because she has infinite bullets and is a sharp shooter right? "there would be a lot of sad families if he wasn't there to stop her" fuck you, you don't fucking know that, are you psychic? Did redneck cop class teach you that all black kids are 100% murderers when they have a gun out?
This was a girl, she was young, probably dumb, she probably wouldn't have shot anyone. She probably didn't even know what the fuck she was doing. She most likely just brought the gun with intention of scaring everyone so they wouldn't fuck with her anymore.
This kid is no hero, he's either a dumb jock or just saw a really weak chick and read that she wasn't really gonna hurt anyone from her body language and just tackled her when opportune.
Just as suggested, this is overhyped sensationalized bullshit.
Really? Are you really trying to make this a racial issue? Generally speaking, whenever anyone pulls a gun out and starts to act aggressive with it, and point it at people, it's because they plan to hurt people. She may not have shot anyone, and she was absolutely stupid. But just because she's stupid doesn't mean she absolutely wouldn't have shot anyone. There are as many more criminals that don't plan things out well and get caught than there are criminals that do plan things out and "succeed."
In fact, you're the only one trying to be psychic here, because you're making assumptions that cannot possibly be made out of the story we have. Which is: girl loads gun, girl points gun at others and acts aggressive (ie, girl is angry). In which part of that do you get "probably wants to scare people." You're taking away from the situation. They over sensationalize the situation, I think we can all agree there, but you're taking it way too lightly.
And suppose you're right and she was just trying to scare people. What if she accidentally pulled the trigger? Someone still could have been shot and injured (though it's unlikely they would have died from such a small round, unless it hit a vital organ), which makes the situation very dangerous. Regardless of her intent, the situation is still dangerous. And, going by the article, the kid that tackled her is not a weapons expert, so he probably didn't know if it was a .38, or a .45, he just tried to stop her.
All that said, the writer needs to be fired:
This one wasn’t in the playbook. So, when a 14-year-old girl waved a loaded gun on a Mississippi school bus, high school quarterback Kaleb Eulls called his own play — and made a life-saving tackle for the record books.
One of the worst opening paragraphs I have ever seen. Seriously, we all get that he was a football player, but do you have to make lame football puns (or whatever, I can't think of the right word)? That line disgusts me. I can't believe that person is a paid journalist. Looks like some trash that was written by a high school kid. I almost didn't read the article because of that. Terrible attempt to pull in the audience. That line just screams "I'm a fucking moron, and you shouldn't read my horrible writing."
Honestly this can be discussed so many different ways which makes it really interesting. First off ammo, .380 ACP is pretty weak, however, let's be realistic these are highschool students many weigh less than 125 pounds which means its all the more lethality i.e. a .45 ACP would blow them up like a melon :O anyhow onward.
This is overhyped, its portrayed with "football hero" in the title, what does football have to do with anything? I do think its great that no one was harmed and that the situation was diffused, that's what we all want. I recognize the circumstances though and the reality is that its something ANYONE should do. It shouldn't be this. Everyone loves being a sheep and just running away instead of doing something about it. This is a perfect example where laws, police, and the government can't save you. You have to act on your own accord and live life. I think his action is commendable from an outsider looking in, inside looking out perhaps he's just a dumb jock who thought he's a bad ass football player and can tackle her, I don't know, but again outside looking in, its commendable...I'm not sure about heroic(everyone is a hero nowadays it seems).
Also as a previous poster used the term "gunman" I urge you to come to reality. This is a media created term and has no application as it was a "gungirl". Gunman is easy to say and really fits the profile of a disgruntled gun toting kook of a man which is why if someone has a gun its not a person, a guy, some dude, no its a GUNMAN. Really though in closing, its something anyone should do and should remind us to be not only polite to each other, but have some common interest in helping one another out in times of need rather than this every man for himself, hope I don't get hurt, I'm running away mentality.
On September 04 2009 08:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I'm not just assuming the best like they are assuming the worst. I'm basing myself off the girl's known motivation, her body language, her age, her lack of planning. All of which was plainly obvious for anyone on the bus.
Sure the guy gets credit for stopping the dumb cunt from wasting more time than she already has but I don't think he saved any lives (except maybe if the gun went off accidentally or some other student scared her into shooting them). So the guy gets credit there, but other than that it's not what it's made out to be.
If that isn't a heroic act when a kid saves a bunch of others from getting shot at then i don't know what we define as heroic, maybe marvel super heroes?
On September 04 2009 10:17 BalliSLife wrote: If that isn't a heroic act when a kid saves a bunch of others from getting shot at then i don't know what we define as heroic, maybe marvel super heroes?
On September 04 2009 08:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I'm not just assuming the best like they are assuming the worst. I'm basing myself off the girl's known motivation, her body language, her age, her lack of planning. All of which was plainly obvious for anyone on the bus.
Sure the guy gets credit for stopping the dumb cunt from wasting more time than she already has but I don't think he saved any lives (except maybe if the gun went off accidentally or some other student scared her into shooting them). So the guy gets credit there, but other than that it's not what it's made out to be.
On September 04 2009 10:17 BalliSLife wrote: If that isn't a heroic act when a kid saves a bunch of others from getting shot at then i don't know what we define as heroic, maybe marvel super heroes?
srsly wtf
He didn't really save anyone, that is my point. Kids were just strolling off the bus and he didn't even have to do anything. Girl was just nerd raging and attention whoring to intimidate people.
On September 04 2009 10:17 BalliSLife wrote: If that isn't a heroic act when a kid saves a bunch of others from getting shot at then i don't know what we define as heroic, maybe marvel super heroes?
On September 04 2009 08:20 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I'm not just assuming the best like they are assuming the worst. I'm basing myself off the girl's known motivation, her body language, her age, her lack of planning. All of which was plainly obvious for anyone on the bus.
Sure the guy gets credit for stopping the dumb cunt from wasting more time than she already has but I don't think he saved any lives (except maybe if the gun went off accidentally or some other student scared her into shooting them). So the guy gets credit there, but other than that it's not what it's made out to be.
On September 04 2009 10:17 BalliSLife wrote: If that isn't a heroic act when a kid saves a bunch of others from getting shot at then i don't know what we define as heroic, maybe marvel super heroes?
srsly wtf
He didn't really save anyone, that is my point. Kids were just strolling off the bus and he didn't even have to do anything. Girl was just nerd raging and attention whoring to intimidate people.
You're completely missing the point. This is not about what would or wouldn't have happened hadn't the kid had acted to diffuse the situation. I agree with you to a certain extent that what you have speculated is more likely and nothing may have happened after all even though the history has never been according to circumstantial measurements and speculations. Anyways, all that is irrelevant.
This is really about the bravery of this young boy. Whether the gunner is male or female, 10 or 20 year old, sloppy or organized, when someone is holding a gun then everyone is instantly intimidated and terrified. Not many people is rational enough to calculate their chances of success/survival if they were to act in that situation and potentially risk his/her life in a terrifying situation unless you're professionally trained that way.
Would you question the fact that his actions are not what 99% of the general population would have done especially if you are a Junior high student? The fact that he had enough courage to handle the situation the way he did alone is very commendable and needs recognition on his part.
What type of gun she was holding is also irrelevant as it's very very unlikely a 14 year old high school boy possess the knowledge about the lethality of the gun yet alone identifying the gun model.
Hero by definition is "A person noted for feats of courage or nobility of purpose, especially one who has risked or sacrificed his or her life" To me what is important is not whether the situation has really been deadly or not but his mindset. He did risk his life from his perspective and he showed feats of courage.
Professional criminals plan their gigs and they are driven by clear motivation. They kill for a reason and very well aware of the consequences. Hence the negotiators make their living right? From that viewpoint an irrational, enraged teenager can be more dangerous in a sense that their actions are often spontaneous and unarticulated. Remember Cho Seung Hui? He killed 32 people and wounded 25 people in an open campus. That is not exactly what a typical gangster would do.
The video shows Eulls getting up, holding the weapon aloft to show that the girl was disarmed. With the girl in pursuit, trying to get the gun back, he jumped out of the back of the bus.
He got the gun off her and then ran away armed, chased by the 14 year old girl?
The chased by 14 year old girl part just makes me lol, just picturing it, a guy with a gun running away. Very brave of the kid, I always thought that if i were in this situation I would try to do something. Chances are if its a school shooting they will kill someone so why not step up and take em down if you see the chance.
On September 04 2009 07:25 CharlieMurphy wrote: It always annoys the fuck out of me the ridiculous assumptions and bullshit that the people involved and the law enforcement say after the fact. no telling how many lives were saved", yea because she has infinite bullets and is a sharp shooter right? "there would be a lot of sad families if he wasn't there to stop her" fuck you, you don't fucking know that, are you psychic? Did redneck cop class teach you that all black kids are 100% murderers when they have a gun out?
This was a girl, she was young, probably dumb, she probably wouldn't have shot anyone. She probably didn't even know what the fuck she was doing. She most likely just brought the gun with intention of scaring everyone so they wouldn't fuck with her anymore.
This kid is no hero, he's either a dumb jock or just saw a really weak chick and read that she wasn't really gonna hurt anyone from her body language and just tackled her when opportune.
Just as suggested, this is overhyped sensationalized bullshit.
Are you kidding? That's all irrelevant to whether or not he is a hero. The simple fact that he confronted her, put his own life in jeopardy over others with a gun pointed at him, and tackled her at that makes him a hero.
If someone takes out a gun and starts waving it - besides the fact such "rational" thinking on your part would most likely go out the window - you have no idea whether or not they are crazy enough to use it. Once again, whether or not she would have used it if he didn't do anything is completely irrelevant.
On September 04 2009 12:25 1tym wrote: gun she was holding is also irrelevant as it's very very unlikely a 14 year old high school boy possess the knowledge about the lethality of the gun yet alone identifying the gun model.
Just gonna quote this for emphasis for everyone who is going on about the model of the gun and its lethality.
to all the keyboard warriors posting about the effectiveness of the gun to downplay the threat of the 14 year old.... its a gun with 5 fuckin bullets at point blank range. what did you expect from everyone? laugh at her toy gun (that can fuckin kill somebody) until she shoots someone in the face??
The hero is always like the most talented football player in school. I wish some story like that ever happens to a SC player.
- So, do you think playing Starcraft helped you react properly in this situation? - Oh yes, absolutely, I had it all planned. I let her scouting drone live on purpose so I could fake being passive, pretending I was going for a macro build, but actually I had a proxy factory in her main making vultures, then I raped her drones as soon as I see an opening. - Great story sir, thank you for your time.
And seriously, the 3D reenactment in the video is the most cheesy and hilarious thing I've ever seen on a news report.
While the sensationalism in the article is annoying, I dont see how anyone can take anything away from what that kid did. It was certainly a heroic act. You can theorycraft all you want, but its hard to be rational in a life threatening situation. Even if he though everything through and came to the conclusion that the girl was not a big threat, he had the balls to take action. Im pretty sure not that many people can confidently say they would have done the same thing (especailly not charliemurphy).
yea like you know me. In that kid's shoes, if I knew the girl, and saw the bullshit going on, I might have just walked away and encouraged/ushered the rest to do the same ignoring the girl.
The kid is a hero. He had a gun waved in his face and still had the courage and composure to think about everyone else's safety.
I don't care if it was a little girl or a grown man holding a pistol or a rifle. One shot to the head and you're still dead. Give the guy some credit for crying out loud.
Good job to him for handling the situation so well, although its kind of laughable that the girl was such a bad shooter that she couldn't at least shoot one person.
On September 04 2009 13:56 CharlieMurphy wrote: yea like you know me. In that kid's shoes, if I knew the girl, and saw the bullshit going on, I might have just walked away and encouraged/ushered the rest to do the same ignoring the girl.
Classic case of internet tough guy syndrome or not so subtle troll?
On September 04 2009 13:56 CharlieMurphy wrote: yea like you know me. In that kid's shoes, if I knew the girl, and saw the bullshit going on, I might have just walked away and encouraged/ushered the rest to do the same ignoring the girl.
Classic case of internet tough guy syndrome or not so subtle troll?
Sigh, yup. =( Why so many trolls?
I hated the MSNBC article. >_> So overplayed. I'm pretty amazed at what the guy did though. :o That takes courage. Like, I'm surprised he did that when he had a gun pointed at him instead of just being blank with shock. =/
On September 04 2009 13:38 lepape wrote: The hero is always like the most talented football player in school. I wish some story like that ever happens to a SC player.
- So, do you think playing Starcraft helped you react properly in this situation? - Oh yes, absolutely, I had it all planned. I let her scouting drone live on purpose so I could fake being passive, pretending I was going for a macro build, but actually I had a proxy factory in her main making vultures, then I raped her drones as soon as I see an opening. - Great story sir, thank you for your time.
And seriously, the 3D reenactment in the video is the most cheesy and hilarious thing I've ever seen on a news report.
I analyze all situations in my life like i would a starcraft game, as I'm sure everyone else who plays sc does too, so i thought this was funny.
But its more like he killed her scouting probe then when she was playing blind (when she looked away) he massed up 3 hatch speedlings and went all in.
Wow the fact that he is a quarterback and male, made this so much easier. She's a 14 year old girl with a gun and he becomes very authorative in comparison, so this is not that big of a thing imo. I would see this QB guy go up to a full grown man and do the same thing
On September 04 2009 20:33 Foucault wrote: Wow the fact that he is a quarterback and male, made this so much easier. She's a 14 year old girl with a gun and he becomes very authorative in comparison, so this is not that big of a thing imo. I would see this QB guy go up to a full grown man and do the same thing
yea i bet he would do the exact same thing if some crazy looking 6 foot 4 ex green beret got up and started pointing an ak47 around
In the story it says she had been picked on or had a hard time or something, i can't help but feel the entire situation could have been averted if people were a little more receptive to these sorts of things and showed a little compassion to one another.
Of course they wouldn't be commending the older gentleman who gave her the .38 snubnose she was really after, knowing that the only shot that needs firing to avoid things ever coming to this point is his trashy orgasm. The thanks he'd get would come in the way of a statutory charge and his name permanently engraved on a sex offender's list.
There are no heroes in a world where a 14 year old girl has to brandish a firearm to get a little attention.
On September 04 2009 12:25 1tym wrote: gun she was holding is also irrelevant as it's very very unlikely a 14 year old high school boy possess the knowledge about the lethality of the gun yet alone identifying the gun model.
Just gonna quote this for emphasis for everyone who is going on about the model of the gun and its lethality.
This was in Mississippi. I'm sure many 14 year olds in Mississippi understand gun dynamics. This wasn't in Massa. or Maine. People in the South grow up with guns, hence they are experienced with them. Many Southern States have open carry, and very loose CCW eligibility.
It also doesn't take a genious to see that the gun is the size of her hand. What kind of conclusion would you make from that? Im sure you can guess the lethality if on one hand she had the .380ACP and the other a 1911 Colt.
I would conclude that SHE HAS A GUN, and that gun is capable of killing someone. Are you seriously going to defend this line of reasoning? Do you honestly think that this 14 year old kid is going to calmly reason about the size of a gun in that situation? Like, he is just going to calmly sit there and rationalize about the firearm a crazy kid is waving around?
On September 04 2009 22:21 Manifesto7 wrote: I would conclude that SHE HAS A GUN, and that gun is capable of killing someone. Are you seriously going to defend this line of reasoning? Do you honestly think that this 14 year old kid is going to calmly reason about the size of a gun in that situation? Like, he is just going to calmly sit there and rationalize about the firearm a crazy kid is waving around?
I can't put myself in his shoes so it does no good to speculate what he is thinking. As someone who grew up in the South we know our guns very well. We aren't as afraid of guns as other sections of the country or the world. Also, people were leaving the bus when he decided to tackle her. It was pretty clear at that point she wasn't going to do anything. Just like the people who say they are going to jump off the bridge, but instead tie up traffic for 18+ hours; they're seeking attention, thats why Police use rubber bullets and shoot bridge jumpers off the bridge if the fall won't do any serious harm.
He didn't even need to do anything. He could have just nonchalantly walked off the bus like everyone else was. I was merely pointing out that with 5 rounds and .380 the amount of damage she could have inflicted would be very minimal at best. It's known that unless you precisely hit vital area, that a person can more times than not survive 9+ shots from 9mm let alone .380, which has 400 less F/S.
I've heard stories from my grandfather in his 30+ years as a Law Enforcement officer of people surviving 12+ shots from 9MM which has 33% more power than .380ACP.
Why do you think many PD's are going to .40? Why do you think every Military Branch phased out the 9mm and went back to the 1911 or the .40 (I own the CG used Sig Sauer .40 which packs a much more lethal punch than 9MM and far and away more than .380ACP)
I'm just curious. How much experience do you have shooting weapons? How much knowledge base do you have? Are you aware that guns are not a taboo thought or subject in the South and pretty much everyone has at least one?
lllllllllllllol at people being serious and saying this was no big deal. Even having a gun pointed in my direction would freak me out, let alone someone with half a mind to shoot it. What the guy did takes balls regardless of the size of the firearm...
On September 04 2009 22:58 Sprite wrote: lets all just be glad no one died.
Yea...in the end we'll never know what the hell she was going to do and even if the gun doesn't have the capacity to kill someone, better noone wounded than someone wounded in my opinion ^^
On September 04 2009 22:58 Sprite wrote: lets all just be glad no one died.
Yea...in the end we'll never know what the hell she was going to do and even if the gun doesn't have the capacity to kill someone, better noone wounded than someone wounded in my opinion ^^
Aegraen nothing you've said in the thread is very relevant...nobody wants to be shot or have a hole in their lung.
If some people try to mug me and a person helps me they are brave, it doesn't matter that I most likely would not die from being mugged.
edit: to expand
Lets say because of a situation a group of people each have a 1% chance of dieing or getting hurt. Somebody then takes that 1% chance in place of all the other people. That is practically the definition of bravery and sacrifice and it shouldn't be so mitigated. I'm not saying he deserves a MoH or anything.
On September 04 2009 22:58 Sprite wrote: lets all just be glad no one died.
Yea...in the end we'll never know what the hell she was going to do and even if the gun doesn't have the capacity to kill someone, better noone wounded than someone wounded in my opinion ^^
I have to agree though with those who said it's improbable she did that with the intention of shooting someone. An accident could have happened, no doubt about it, the risk was there and I certainly don't want to minimize the danger of the situation or what the guy did.
But if her goal was to kill one person, why would she do this in a bus in front of everyone, after threatening them? Also, her goal obviously wasnt to kill everyone in the bus either. It seems more like an extreme crazy attention whore situation.
I have a common sense question. How much real life and death gun related experience and gun knowledge does it require for a 14 year old high schooler to become completely immune to real life gun threat situation even in south? Do you ever become completely immune to something that can kill instantly with one trigger? You're really stretching it to a nonsensical extent to fit your retarded argument.
So you're actually assuming that the 14 year old high school star player quarterback with a bright future ahead was somehow dealing drugs and come to casually encounter guns on daily basis so he instantly figured that the gun she was holding was a 38 automatic handgun and with 5 rounds and .380 and rationalized that the amount of damage she could have inflicted would be wounded chest at best hence after studying her body movements concluded that she wasn't capable of killing anyone so he tackled her? Wow he must have been a FBI not a regular 14 year old high school boy! Also the proximity between the gunner and Eulls was close enough to cause fatality regardless of the lethality level of the gun.
Do you also realize it was Euls that opened the emergency door at the back despite her pointing a gun at him and let everyone off safe in the first place? How many people do you think had the guts to do that in that situation?
Please don't argue for the sake of arguing but really feel what you're saying.
On September 04 2009 22:21 Manifesto7 wrote: I would conclude that SHE HAS A GUN, and that gun is capable of killing someone. Are you seriously going to defend this line of reasoning? Do you honestly think that this 14 year old kid is going to calmly reason about the size of a gun in that situation? Like, he is just going to calmly sit there and rationalize about the firearm a crazy kid is waving around?
I can't put myself in his shoes so it does no good to speculate what he is thinking. As someone who grew up in the South we know our guns very well. We aren't as afraid of guns as other sections of the country or the world. Also, people were leaving the bus when he decided to tackle her. It was pretty clear at that point she wasn't going to do anything. Just like the people who say they are going to jump off the bridge, but instead tie up traffic for 18+ hours; they're seeking attention, thats why Police use rubber bullets and shoot bridge jumpers off the bridge if the fall won't do any serious harm.
He didn't even need to do anything. He could have just nonchalantly walked off the bus like everyone else was. I was merely pointing out that with 5 rounds and .380 the amount of damage she could have inflicted would be very minimal at best. It's known that unless you precisely hit vital area, that a person can more times than not survive 9+ shots from 9mm let alone .380, which has 400 less F/S.
I've heard stories from my grandfather in his 30+ years as a Law Enforcement officer of people surviving 12+ shots from 9MM which has 33% more power than .380ACP.
Why do you think many PD's are going to .40? Why do you think every Military Branch phased out the 9mm and went back to the 1911 or the .40 (I own the CG used Sig Sauer .40 which packs a much more lethal punch than 9MM and far and away more than .380ACP)
I'm just curious. How much experience do you have shooting weapons? How much knowledge base do you have? Are you aware that guns are not a taboo thought or subject in the South and pretty much everyone has at least one?
I have a common sense question. How much real life and death gun related experience and gun knowledge does it require for a 14 year old high schooler to become completely immune to real life gun threat situation even in south? Do you ever become completely immune to something that can kill instantly with one trigger? You're really stretching it to a nonsensical extent to fit your retarded argument.
So you're actually assuming that the 14 year old high school star player quarterback with a bright future ahead was somehow dealing drugs and come to casually encounter guns on daily basis so he instantly figured that the gun she was holding was a 38 automatic handgun and with 5 rounds and .380 and rationalized that the amount of damage she could have inflicted would be wounded chest at best hence after studying her body movements concluded that she wasn't capable of killing anyone so he tackled her? Wow he must have been a FBI not a regular 14 year old high school boy! Also the proximity between the gunner and Eulls was close enough to cause fatality regardless of the lethality level of the gun.
Do you also realize it was Euls that opened the emergency door at the back despite her pointing a gun at him and let everyone off safe in the first place? How many people do you think have the guts to do that in that situation?
Please don't argue for the sake of arguing but really feel what you're saying.
On September 04 2009 23:14 ShaperofDreams wrote: Aegraen nothing you've said in the thread is very relevant...nobody wants to be shot or have a hole in their lung.
If some people try to mug me and a person helps me they are brave, it doesn't matter that I most likely would not die from being mugged.
It's very relevant. What one person calls brave, another calls stupid. The people on the bus were all ready getting off the bus with no altercation. The guy could have just lept off the bus with the others and no harm would have happened. He actually increased the chances of something happening, by his actions.
Eulls first opened the emergency door in the back and told the other kids to get off the bus. For several tense minutes, as panicked kids tried to get off the bus.
A bus is a very very small inclosure, it would be impossible for her to not see people getting off the bus. It became plainly obvious her intention wasn't to shoot anyone, but to grab attention. Oh well, let's not analyze the situation lets just read "Gun / Tackle = brave". Now, the calibre and type of weapon is very relevant. Do you think he would have tried that if it was a .357 Mag, or 1911 Colt?
On September 04 2009 23:22 1tym wrote: I have a common sense question. How much real life and death gun related experience and gun knowledge does it require for a 14 year old high schooler to become completely immune to real life gun threat situation even in south? Do you ever become completely immune to something that can kill instantly with one trigger? You're really stretching it to a nonsensical extent to fit your retarded argument.
So you're actually assuming that the 14 year old high school star player quarterback with a bright future ahead was somehow dealing drugs and come to casually encounter guns on daily basis so he instantly figured that the gun she was holding was a 38 automatic handgun and with 5 rounds and .380 and rationalized that the amount of damage she could have inflicted would be wounded chest at best hence after studying her body movements concluded that she wasn't capable of killing anyone so he tackled her? Wow he must have been a FBI not a regular 14 year old high school boy! Also the proximity between the gunner and Eulls was close enough to cause fatality regardless of the lethality level of the gun.
Do you also realize it was Euls that opened the emergency door at the back despite her pointing a gun at him and let everyone off safe in the first place? How many people do you think had the guts to do that in that situation?
Please don't argue for the sake of arguing but really feel what you're saying.
Contrary to popular opinion, not everyone freezes and shits their pants when someone is armed and dangerous. Some people actually analyze the situation. Secondly, it never said his age, only that he was in Highschool. I would assume that he was older than 14, as 14 is the entry into High School. Secondly, shooting guns is a pastime in the South, so yes, the average kid in the South knows quite a bit about weapons, especially a guy. I'm also not sure how drugs got involved in the arguement....Are you aware that there are things called Ranges and backyards? What about hunting?
The mentality that everything related to weaponry is somehow associated with illegality, is absurd. Let's get back on topic shall we. He had no need to tackle her. It wasn't bravery, it was stupidity. Increasing the chance of an accidental firing occurence. What was the need to do that when the other kids were getting off the bus and she wasn't doing anything about it.
Edit:
But Eulls isn’t someone that Yazoo County sees every day. The 6-foot-4, 255-pound senior star is one of Mississippi’s “Dandy Dozen,”
So, yes, he was more likely 17 or 18, not 14. A huge difference wouldn't you say?
On September 04 2009 23:24 1tym wrote: Do you also realize it was Euls that opened the emergency door at the back despite her pointing a gun at him and let everyone off safe in the first place? How many people do you think have the guts to do that in that situation?
Well judging by his first post on this page it certainly doesn't look like it
On September 04 2009 22:42 Aegraen wrote: Also, people were leaving the bus when he decided to tackle her.
I mean wtf, that's why he made her focus on him instead of the others so that they could leave via emergency door after he opened it HIMSELF. And as soon as she looked away instead of at him he tackled her and disarmed her.
Are you too freaking selfabsorbed too even read the OPs entire tl;dr??
On September 04 2009 23:30 KaRnaGe[cF] wrote: # 1 Aegraen FAN!!!!
OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. From your very first post in this thread you try to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
On September 04 2009 23:37 1tym wrote: OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. Your very first post in this thread was to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
Are you aware that they were on a bus? You can see everyone on the bus infront of you without even thinking about using your perepheral vision. It's absolutely impossible to not notice people walking off the bus.
Take credit away? I said he had balls. What else do you want? A glorious standing ovation, while I proclaim to the citizenry what a hero we have in our midst as we erect for him a 25 ft tall bronze statue.
Yes, what he did by opening the emergency door and having people get off the bus was a good deed, a hero though? I don't think so, especially when he decided to tackle her and cause a situation with an increased chance of an accidental fire.
He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
On September 04 2009 23:37 1tym wrote: OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. Your very first post in this thread was to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
Are you aware that they were on a bus? You can see everyone on the bus infront of you without even thinking about using your perepheral vision. It's absolutely impossible to not notice people walking off the bus.
Take credit away? I said he had balls. What else do you want? A glorious standing ovation, while I proclaim to the citizenry what a hero we have in our midst as we erect for him a 25 ft tall bronze statue.
Yes, what he did by opening the emergency door and having people get off the bus was a good deed, a hero though? I don't think so, especially when he decided to tackle her and cause a situation with an increased chance of an accidental fire.
Accidental fire... but if I'm not mistaken, you said earlier that the bullet wouldn't be likely to harm him?
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
On September 04 2009 23:37 1tym wrote: OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. Your very first post in this thread was to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
Are you aware that they were on a bus? You can see everyone on the bus infront of you without even thinking about using your perepheral vision. It's absolutely impossible to not notice people walking off the bus.
Take credit away? I said he had balls. What else do you want? A glorious standing ovation, while I proclaim to the citizenry what a hero we have in our midst as we erect for him a 25 ft tall bronze statue.
Yes, what he did by opening the emergency door and having people get off the bus was a good deed, a hero though? I don't think so, especially when he decided to tackle her and cause a situation with an increased chance of an accidental fire.
Accidental fire... but if I'm not mistaken, you said earlier that the bullet wouldn't be likely to harm him?
No, I said it wouldn't be likely to kill him. Lethality. The gun can still kill, but you have to be very precise in what area you hit, but any increase in that chance isn't what I would call a hero.
On September 04 2009 23:37 1tym wrote: OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. Your very first post in this thread was to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
Are you aware that they were on a bus? You can see everyone on the bus infront of you without even thinking about using your perepheral vision. It's absolutely impossible to not notice people walking off the bus.
Take credit away? I said he had balls. What else do you want? A glorious standing ovation, while I proclaim to the citizenry what a hero we have in our midst as we erect for him a 25 ft tall bronze statue.
Yes, what he did by opening the emergency door and having people get off the bus was a good deed, a hero though? I don't think so, especially when he decided to tackle her and cause a situation with an increased chance of an accidental fire.
Accidental fire... but if I'm not mistaken, you said earlier that the bullet wouldn't be likely to harm him?
No, I said it wouldn't be likely to kill him. Lethality. The gun can still kill, but you have to be very precise in what area you hit, but any increase in that chance isn't what I would call a hero.
The situation where a gun is firing "accidentally" is not, I believe, one where it will be precisely aimed.
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
If you read the thread it's not hard to find out who people think is retarded other than your fanboy KaRnaGe[cF].
On September 04 2009 23:37 1tym wrote: OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. Your very first post in this thread was to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
Are you aware that they were on a bus? You can see everyone on the bus infront of you without even thinking about using your perepheral vision. It's absolutely impossible to not notice people walking off the bus.
Take credit away? I said he had balls. What else do you want? A glorious standing ovation, while I proclaim to the citizenry what a hero we have in our midst as we erect for him a 25 ft tall bronze statue.
Yes, what he did by opening the emergency door and having people get off the bus was a good deed, a hero though? I don't think so, especially when he decided to tackle her and cause a situation with an increased chance of an accidental fire.
Accidental fire... but if I'm not mistaken, you said earlier that the bullet wouldn't be likely to harm him?
No, I said it wouldn't be likely to kill him. Lethality. The gun can still kill, but you have to be very precise in what area you hit, but any increase in that chance isn't what I would call a hero.
The situation where a gun is firing "accidentally" is not, I believe, one where it will be precisely aimed.
The time of firing and the accuracy when getting tackled no one can guess where the bullet will end up. It could be a fluke shot and shoot someone square in the forehead, or it could hit someone in the leg. No one knows. Therefore any increase in the chance of an accidental fire where you have no control over the precision of the weapon (When you're getting tackled your arm flails upward), is a risk not worthwhile especially in light of the fact people are getting off the bus all ready.
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
If you read the thread it's not hard to find out who people think is retarded other than your fanboy KaRnaGe[cF].
People also thought Galileo was retarded. Consensus =/= Correct.
Edit: Anyways, I'm done with the thread. I let my position be known. This has turned pretty pointless. You say he's a hero, I don't. Your definition of hero isn't any less subjective than mine.
On September 04 2009 23:37 1tym wrote: OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. Your very first post in this thread was to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
Are you aware that they were on a bus? You can see everyone on the bus infront of you without even thinking about using your perepheral vision. It's absolutely impossible to not notice people walking off the bus.
Take credit away? I said he had balls. What else do you want? A glorious standing ovation, while I proclaim to the citizenry what a hero we have in our midst as we erect for him a 25 ft tall bronze statue.
Yes, what he did by opening the emergency door and having people get off the bus was a good deed, a hero though? I don't think so, especially when he decided to tackle her and cause a situation with an increased chance of an accidental fire.
Accidental fire... but if I'm not mistaken, you said earlier that the bullet wouldn't be likely to harm him?
No, I said it wouldn't be likely to kill him. Lethality. The gun can still kill, but you have to be very precise in what area you hit, but any increase in that chance isn't what I would call a hero.
The situation where a gun is firing "accidentally" is not, I believe, one where it will be precisely aimed.
The time of firing and the accuracy when getting tackled no one can guess where the bullet will end up. It could be a fluke shot and shoot someone square in the forehead, or it could hit someone in the leg. No one knows. Therefore any increase in the chance of an accidental fire where you have no control over the precision of the weapon (When you're getting tackled your arm flails upward), is a risk not worthwhile especially in light of the fact people are getting off the bus all ready.
You knew what I meant anyway.
What I'm trying to say is: I believe that you either have to A) admit that there was risk to his life in his effort to help the other kids get off the bus or B) that the tackle was a reasonable measure.
On September 04 2009 23:37 1tym wrote: OK since you won't give in let's stop speculating as to what his motive was and what she was capable/incapable of. After all, it's all speculation based on circumstantial measurement. Your very first post in this thread was to take credit away from him but you're continually dismissing the fact that it was him who opened the emergency back door in the first place and shifted the attention from girl from everyone else to him? That is not bravery? It wasn't like everyone else was casually walking off the bus with a crazy girl pointing a gun at them.
Are you aware that they were on a bus? You can see everyone on the bus infront of you without even thinking about using your perepheral vision. It's absolutely impossible to not notice people walking off the bus.
Take credit away? I said he had balls. What else do you want? A glorious standing ovation, while I proclaim to the citizenry what a hero we have in our midst as we erect for him a 25 ft tall bronze statue.
Yes, what he did by opening the emergency door and having people get off the bus was a good deed, a hero though? I don't think so, especially when he decided to tackle her and cause a situation with an increased chance of an accidental fire.
Accidental fire... but if I'm not mistaken, you said earlier that the bullet wouldn't be likely to harm him?
No, I said it wouldn't be likely to kill him. Lethality. The gun can still kill, but you have to be very precise in what area you hit, but any increase in that chance isn't what I would call a hero.
The situation where a gun is firing "accidentally" is not, I believe, one where it will be precisely aimed.
The time of firing and the accuracy when getting tackled no one can guess where the bullet will end up. It could be a fluke shot and shoot someone square in the forehead, or it could hit someone in the leg. No one knows. Therefore any increase in the chance of an accidental fire where you have no control over the precision of the weapon (When you're getting tackled your arm flails upward), is a risk not worthwhile especially in light of the fact people are getting off the bus all ready.
You knew what I meant anyway.
I don't know you, but if I had the choice between having someone point a gun at me being able to shot anytime, or disarming the person, taking the risk of an accidental shot and a even less probable ricochet in the forehead, I'll take the second option.
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
If you read the thread it's not hard to find out who people think is retarded other than your fanboy KaRnaGe[cF].
People also thought Galileo was retarded. Consensus =/= Correct.
Edit: Anyways, I'm done with the thread. I let my position be known. This has turned pretty pointless. You say he's a hero, I don't. Your definition of hero isn't any less subjective than mine.
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
If you read the thread it's not hard to find out who people think is retarded other than your fanboy KaRnaGe[cF].
People also thought Galileo was retarded. Consensus =/= Correct.
There is a fine difference between plain internet nobody retard and well known physicist who made some absurdly bold claims at the time.
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
If you read the thread it's not hard to find out who people think is retarded other than your fanboy KaRnaGe[cF].
People also thought Galileo was retarded. Consensus =/= Correct.
Edit: Anyways, I'm done with the thread. I let my position be known. This has turned pretty pointless. You say he's a hero, I don't. Your definition of hero isn't any less subjective than mine.
lol you really just compared yourself to Galileo?
Nope, merely pointing out that having a consensus doesn't mean you are necessarily correct. Way to take what I said to the vapid extreme once again. Anyways, any further discussions with me you guys wish to have PM me please. This thread has moved a ways from its intent in the first place.
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
If you read the thread it's not hard to find out who people think is retarded other than your fanboy KaRnaGe[cF].
People also thought Galileo was retarded. Consensus =/= Correct.
Edit: Anyways, I'm done with the thread. I let my position be known. This has turned pretty pointless. You say he's a hero, I don't. Your definition of hero isn't any less subjective than mine.
lol you really just compared yourself to Galileo?
Nope, merely pointing out that having a consensus doesn't mean you are necessarily correct. Way to take what I said to the vapid extreme once again. Anyways, any further discussions with me you guys wish to have PM me please. This thread has moved a ways from its intent in the first place.
Unless it's a scientific or mathematical theory that can be tested and proved over and over again as far as person's behavior is concerned cultural and social perception at the time defines what is and what is not. It is true that having a consensus does not mean that you are correct, but then since there is no fixed metric that determines what a hero is and what is not, if majority of the people at the time perceive a person as a hero, then he is a hero by today's standards regardless of what people might think of him 100 years on.
Why the hell is Missouri white? You're an inconsiderate asshole for not including my state with a colour. I think I'll go with green since its unused and its a nice colour.
Aegaen you are consistently contradicting yourself in this thread.
and you pretend like you know precisely what would have happened and exactly what the guy did. Taking a risk for someone else not to have to = bravery IMO.
His argument (as I understand it) is that the boy is not a hero because of the manner in which the girl wielded the gun and because of the type of gun being wielded. He also insinuates that he is much more deserving of praise as he has "saved far more than 22 people".
On September 04 2009 07:48 CharlieMurphy wrote: I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just saying this is not awesome and is by no means heroic. "if not for the instincts of 18 year old football star.." blah blah american patriot propaganda. See guys! learning to play football and tackling people can save lives!
There was probably a higher chance of the gun accidentally going off then her actually trying to shoot some kids.
I think you're a sad, cynical douche bag.
The article is written like shit, and the sheriff did run his mouth like any other would on US media, but that's not the focus here.
You don't need infinite bullets nor need you be a sharpshooter to kill someone with a loaded weapon in the close confines of a school bus. Be realistic.
The guy is a hero for not freaking the fuck out like you and I would have done and for doing something constructive about it.
Regardless of whether or not she would have shot anyone, he ensured for a damn fact that no one would get shot. When it comes to people's lives like that, being willing to compromise and accept probabilities like you seem to be doing is just unacceptable.
-No one knows if the guy knew what kind of gun it was, and no one knows if he knew how powerful it was. -There was a loaded gun being waved around, therefore there was a chance that the guy could die, regardless of the caliber of the gun. -The guy stayed and disarmed the girl. No one knows what his motives were (fame? just being a good guy? does it really matter since the result is that he possibly saved people from being killed or injured?)
/end of facts/
I mean even if he knew what kind of gun it was, do you really think he was sitting there going "Oh that's a .38, this is going to be easy!" Even if that kind of thing doesn't scare you now, I think that instincts would come into play and you would just want to run as soon as you saw a gun come out anyway. Honestly if you look at this objectively and don't make a ton of assumptions, I don't see how you can say this guy didn't do a good thing here.
The simple truth is, none of us here did anything about this situation, so to do anything less than praise this guy is basically like going up to him after the fact and saying, "Yeah, thanks a lot...jackass. Everyone knows that gun probably wouldn't have killed you, and everyone also knows that she probably wouldn't have used it anyway."
I'm not saying the guy is like the hero of the century or anything, but he at least did something good for people other than himself.
On September 04 2009 07:48 CharlieMurphy wrote: I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just saying this is not awesome and is by no means heroic. "if not for the instincts of 18 year old football star.." blah blah american patriot propaganda. See guys! learning to play football and tackling people can save lives!
There was probably a higher chance of the gun accidentally going off then her actually trying to shoot some kids.
I think you're a sad, cynical douche bag.
The article is written like shit, and the sheriff did run his mouth like any other would on US media, but that's not the focus here.
You don't need infinite bullets nor need you be a sharpshooter to kill someone with a loaded weapon in the close confines of a school bus. Be realistic.
The guy is a hero for not freaking the fuck out like you and I would have done and for doing something constructive about it.
Regardless of whether or not she would have shot anyone, he ensured for a damn fact that no one would get shot. When it comes to people's lives like that, being willing to compromise and accept probabilities like you seem to be doing is just unacceptable.
I have to agree on that. ..When it comes to people's lives... that´s all that matters
On September 05 2009 00:01 1tym wrote: He is a hero to me. What have any of you done in your lifetime that is even remotely close to what he has done for 22 people that were on the bus other than keyboard warrior-ing on the internet? In fact yes a glorious standing ovation from an unappreciative skeptic like you would be nice
I've saved far more than 22 people. Making retarded assumptions on people you've never met is very accurate. /sarc
........... And this coming from a person who likes to make assumptions about the situation he's never been on.
There's a difference between retarded assumptions (Based on no evidence), and worthwhile assumptions (based on available evidence). I'll leave it to you to draw the conclusion from this analysis.
If you read the thread it's not hard to find out who people think is retarded other than your fanboy KaRnaGe[cF].
Do not discredit people on their opinions, but on how they present it, or on their arguments, please. This way the debate may conclude one day.
Wow he is a hero for risking his life to save others. But there always will be different opinions about heroic actions. For example, special forces attacking terrorists and then covering civilians with their own bodies (same like with a small gun here some may say that it's easy cuz they have bulletproof vests & helmets on). Real life is not a movie and you can't disarm all bad guys with zero casualties all the time... and its a good thing that this guy disarmed that crazy gunner (if someone thinks that it's nothing special than let em think so). Sure he is not a special forces member who died covering a child from crossfire but he reacted like a pro.
P.S. I'm not good with guns but I think it depends a lot of the bullet and not only of caliber. For example one can load his big caliber gun with non-lethal bullets (still could kill but less likely). Small gun like .38 loaded with normal bullets is much more lethal than a .50 caliber Magnum loaded with non-lethal bullets.
On September 04 2009 06:21 yejin wrote: Only in America !
Only in Sweden!
What happens only in Sweden? Please, explain you make no sense.
Perhaps I should have "only in Europe" because its basically the only continent to look down on the rest of the world while thinking their way of life is how everyone should live and oh no bad things EVER happen there.
I've seen in news that 7 year old kids playing robocop and killing their maids using 9mm glocks. So this stuff is pretty heroic imo. To the people thinking that it's nothing and all in a days work I dunno what are you guys thinking.
On September 04 2009 07:48 CharlieMurphy wrote: I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just saying this is not awesome and is by no means heroic. "if not for the instincts of 18 year old football star.." blah blah american patriot propaganda. See guys! learning to play football and tackling people can save lives!
There was probably a higher chance of the gun accidentally going off then her actually trying to shoot some kids.
I think you're a sad, cynical douche bag.
The article is written like shit, and the sheriff did run his mouth like any other would on US media, but that's not the focus here.
You don't need infinite bullets nor need you be a sharpshooter to kill someone with a loaded weapon in the close confines of a school bus. Be realistic.
The guy is a hero for not freaking the fuck out like you and I would have done and for doing something constructive about it.
Regardless of whether or not she would have shot anyone, he ensured for a damn fact that no one would get shot. When it comes to people's lives like that, being willing to compromise and accept probabilities like you seem to be doing is just unacceptable.
Notice how in the video clip they don't show the full unedited takedown and tape from start to finish. Yea the guy probably just got up while she was just waving the gun around (not pointing it at him or anyone else) and just took her down on sheer body weight alone.
also the story about doing to to protect others and shit is probably just thought up after the fact. Hell maybe some producer told him to say it to make the news better even. If anything he was just doing it thinking of only his sisters or just the fact that he didn't wanna take any shit from some girl waving a gun towards him and demanding shit.
edit- in the clips below I posted you can hear him yelling for her to put the gun down a few times. then she like backs away and turns and he just takes her down.
and again, I do not think this chick was planning or willing to kill anyone. So in my opinion I do not think he actually saved anyone at all. Chick is just letting kids run off the bus, she wasn't trying to shoot anyone.
the chick is totally frontin with the gun, look she even casually walks with her back to like 5-6 people and with the gun down like below the seat with her hand like half way holding the gun and the seat.
What the guy did was pretty cool. The result was that no one was hurt. (Minus an EPIC sack on a 14yo)
However, I really hate that the media sensationalizes everything like this. In reality, the guy should have just gotten some hugs and some high fives. Good humans look out for other humans. The media shouldn't be calling him a super hero. The proper response is "if that ever happens to me, I will be that awesome" not "Holy shit give that guy a million dollars, I would've never done that shit, fucking super man IMO"
On September 05 2009 10:20 keV. wrote: What the guy did was pretty cool. The result was that no one was hurt. (Minus an EPIC sack on a 14yo)
However, I really hate that the media sensationalizes everything like this. In reality, the guy should have just gotten some hugs and some high fives. Good humans look out for other humans. The media shouldn't be calling him a super hero. The proper response is "if that ever happens to me, I will be that awesome" not "Holy shit give that guy a million dollars, I would've never done that shit, fucking super man IMO"
High five to the hero, thumbs down to MSNBC.
Is there like an auditor/supervisor stop sensationalize media whoring? I hate it myself
On September 04 2009 07:48 CharlieMurphy wrote: I'm not trying to be a downer, I'm just saying this is not awesome and is by no means heroic. "if not for the instincts of 18 year old football star.." blah blah american patriot propaganda. See guys! learning to play football and tackling people can save lives!
There was probably a higher chance of the gun accidentally going off then her actually trying to shoot some kids.
I think you're a sad, cynical douche bag.
The article is written like shit, and the sheriff did run his mouth like any other would on US media, but that's not the focus here.
You don't need infinite bullets nor need you be a sharpshooter to kill someone with a loaded weapon in the close confines of a school bus. Be realistic.
The guy is a hero for not freaking the fuck out like you and I would have done and for doing something constructive about it.
Regardless of whether or not she would have shot anyone, he ensured for a damn fact that no one would get shot. When it comes to people's lives like that, being willing to compromise and accept probabilities like you seem to be doing is just unacceptable.
Notice how in the video clip they don't show the full unedited takedown and tape from start to finish. Yea the guy probably just got up while she was just waving the gun around (not pointing it at him or anyone else) and just took her down on sheer body weight alone.
also the story about doing to to protect others and shit is probably just thought up after the fact. Hell maybe some producer told him to say it to make the news better even. If anything he was just doing it thinking of only his sisters or just the fact that he didn't wanna take any shit from some girl waving a gun towards him and demanding shit.
edit- in the clips below I posted you can hear him yelling for her to put the gun down a few times. then she like backs away and turns and he just takes her down.
and again, I do not think this chick was planning or willing to kill anyone. So in my opinion I do not think he actually saved anyone at all. Chick is just letting kids run off the bus, she wasn't trying to shoot anyone.
These consequentialist interpretations are so fucking stupid.
It doesn't matter if there were blanks in the gun or if it was a fucking bb gun that looked dangerous. The kid did not know at the time and he probably didn't know the caliber of the gun or how skilled she was with it. Even if he thought she was unskilled, a gun is an incredible equalizer between an expert and a newbie. The act itself was heroic, you dumb pieces of shit.
CM, stop looking at it with 20/20 vision of the situation. Think about it in the context as it happened. Unless you're Jason Bourne, you don't make the calculations you just tried to make.
On September 05 2009 10:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I do not think anyone was in any danger physically . Therefor no one can be a hero.
How were they not in any danger though? we never know if she would of eventually shot at someone because she was stopped. Does someone need to be shot at in order for him to be considered heroic?
How about if someone was holding an AK-47 and screaming that he is pissed off at life and about to kill people. Some kid knowing his and everyone else's life is in danger ensures the safe escape of everyone and tackles the man with the weapon when hes not looking. OH BUT WAIT IT TURNS OUT THERE WERE NO BULLETS IN THE GUN SO THERE WAS NO REAL DANGER. THE KID ISN'T A HERO AFTER ALL.
On September 05 2009 10:49 Probe. wrote: How about if someone was holding an AK-47 and screaming that he is pissed off at life and about to kill people. Some kid knowing his and everyone else's life is in danger ensures the safe escape of everyone and tackles the man with the weapon when hes not looking. OH BUT WAIT IT TURNS OUT THERE WERE NO BULLETS IN THE GUN SO THERE WAS NO REAL DANGER. THE KID ISN'T A HERO AFTER ALL.
fucking CharlieMurphy quit trying to sound cool
Although you were sarcastic, what you said is totally true. The move is less heroic when the weapon is less lethal, that's common sense.
-Is she was holding a fully loaded assault rifle, it would be f-king heroic because everyone could die.
-Is she was holding a kitchen knife, stopping her would be nice, not heroic, because the most she could do would be to stab someone's eye.
Stopping someone who has virtually no chance to inflict any damage, it's not heroic. At most, it's brave if the situation looks worse than it is.
because like I said before, this chick was just a nerd raging wuss, look how she carried herself, carried the gun, let people move around freely, etc. She was just doing something similar to a 'cry for help' which suicidal people do. She wasn't really going to do anything. Just fucking watch the video, look at her stupid ass.
edit- I'm not fucking referencing her weapon or if it had bullets. Stop bringing up arguments I'm not even talking about that some dumb fuck brought up on page 2.
PS- Also note that when the chick is sideswiped from obviously not paying attention, no rounds are shot off, this is because she wasn't looking to do so. I guarantee you, if someone was trying to shoot attackers a round would have gone off, and she definitely wouldn't have just dropped the gun so easily.
On September 05 2009 10:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I do not think anyone was in any danger physically . Therefor no one can be a hero.
By this definition...
A quiet bus ride to or from school is as safe as a bus ride with an irate 14 year old girl waving a gun around. Correct?
I'm not generalizing , you are. I'm saying in this particular video this chick is obviously bluffing. So yes, these kids are safe because again she just lets them all walk behind her and off the bus with no repercussions.
Just to clarify, the kid is either brave or stupid but he is no hero.
it's easy to talk about body language, gun type, and whatever after the incident has happened. I just think that in the future if you were unfortunate enough to be in that situation yourself you would be shitting bricks with that kind of mindset of just laughing it off as no big deal
On September 05 2009 10:39 CharlieMurphy wrote: Like I said, I do not think anyone was in any danger physically . Therefor no one can be a hero.
By this definition...
A quiet bus ride to or from school is as safe as a bus ride with an irate 14 year old girl waving a gun around. Correct?
I'm not generalizing , you are. I'm saying in this particular video this chick is obviously bluffing. So yes, these kids are safe because again she just lets them all walk behind her and off the bus with no repercussions.
Just to clarify, the kid is either brave or stupid but he is no hero.
Oh, you're trolling. No way you could be this stupid. My bad, troll on.
On September 05 2009 11:12 CharlieMurphy wrote: It's pointless to argue my points because half of you don't even leave your homes to understand what the fuck i'm talking about.
It doesn't matter what you think the girl might have done or know what she might have done. The fact is SHE HAD A FUCKING GUN and she was emotionally unstable. You can't use rational thoughts on someone who is acting unrational. In the eyes of the boy on the bus he saw a chick with a gun. No need to go into specifics about the gun. And instead of running the fuck out of there (or casual strolling out like CharlieMurphy would do if a gun is pointed at him) he stayed and ensured everyone left unharmed and the girls only means of harm was taken away from her. This selfless act alone makes him a hero.
On September 05 2009 11:14 CharlieMurphy wrote: There are people who front and try to act all crazy but they don't do shit. This is called "all bark and no bite". This girl is the perfect example.
Even if that true (keep in mind that there is no possible way of confirming it)
The bite is the gun, not the intent to use it. Even if she had no intention of executing someone with a sound mind. It does not mean that someone could not have gotten hurt when a loaded weapon was present. It says right in the article that she had a cheap gun with a tendency to misfire.
On September 05 2009 11:19 Probe. wrote: It doesn't matter what you think the girl might have done or know what she might have done. The fact is SHE HAD A FUCKING GUN and she was emotionally unstable. You can't use rational thoughts on someone who is acting unrational. In the eyes of the boy on the bus he saw a chick with a gun. No need to go into specifics about the gun. And instead of running the fuck out of there (or casual strolling out like CharlieMurphy would do if a gun is pointed at him) he stayed and ensured everyone left unharmed and the girls only means of harm was taken away from her. This selfless act alone makes him a hero.
this made me lol for some reason. Back to the meat of your post, I don't think you guys are reading into my whole perspective of the situation (which is actually kind of ironic because that is the basis of my points) I'm not gonna repeat myself again, just click the all button and ctrl+f to find my posts.
if this guy rode the bus with this girl every day and saw her often enough at school I'm sure he had a good enough read on her to make a totally safe move. It's like If this was my 14 year old sister when I was 18 and she did this I could easily do the same thing because I know what she is and isn't capable of even before the whole situation.
he's a hero. and gun > unarmed, as long as it has bullets and shooter can shoot. whoever is insulting the weapon of choice is probably stupid, since it doesn't matter when it's not a gunfight
On September 05 2009 11:19 Probe. wrote: It doesn't matter what you think the girl might have done or know what she might have done. The fact is SHE HAD A FUCKING GUN and she was emotionally unstable. You can't use rational thoughts on someone who is acting unrational. In the eyes of the boy on the bus he saw a chick with a gun. No need to go into specifics about the gun. And instead of running the fuck out of there (or casual strolling out like CharlieMurphy would do if a gun is pointed at him) he stayed and ensured everyone left unharmed and the girls only means of harm was taken away from her. This selfless act alone makes him a hero.
this made me lol for some reason. Back to the meat of your post, I don't think you guys are reading into my whole perspective of the situation (which is actually kind of ironic because that is the basis of my points) I'm not gonna repeat myself again, just click the all button and ctrl+f to find my posts.
if this guy rode the bus with this girl every day and saw her often enough at school I'm sure he had a good enough read on her to make a totally safe move. It's like If this was my 14 year old sister when I was 18 and she did this I could easily do the same thing because I know what she is and isn't capable of even before the whole situation.
So much bullshit in here that I actually laughed. Well played.
On September 05 2009 10:49 Probe. wrote: How about if someone was holding an AK-47 and screaming that he is pissed off at life and about to kill people. Some kid knowing his and everyone else's life is in danger ensures the safe escape of everyone and tackles the man with the weapon when hes not looking. OH BUT WAIT IT TURNS OUT THERE WERE NO BULLETS IN THE GUN SO THERE WAS NO REAL DANGER. THE KID ISN'T A HERO AFTER ALL.
fucking CharlieMurphy quit trying to sound cool
Although you were sarcastic, what you said is totally true. The move is less heroic when the weapon is less lethal, that's common sense.
-Is she was holding a fully loaded assault rifle, it would be f-king heroic because everyone could die.
-Is she was holding a kitchen knife, stopping her would be nice, not heroic, because the most she could do would be to stab someone's eye.
Stopping someone who has virtually no chance to inflict any damage, it's not heroic. At most, it's brave if the situation looks worse than it is.
Your counter analogies are flawed because in them the perceived threat as well as the actual threat changes, where as in the first the perceived threat is inconsistent with the actual threat.
So I would argue that we should judge how brave someone is based upon the perceived threat and not the actual threat because the actual threat has not effect on action.
Consider this. A grenade is tossed. I dive on it to save my fellow soldiers in my squad.
Whether that grenade is defective or not, I am still being heroic because I, from my situation, have no way of knowing the difference between my prospective fates. That is, while I certainly hope the grenade is defective when I dive, I still am willing to die for my fellow soldiers. The act is equivalent in terms of bravery.
If you want to argue whether or not he is a hero, you can argue what qualifies as a hero, but should not dispute that his act was as courageous as if the chick had a more powerful gun, or ten bullets, or 20.
edit: In addition I feel that what a hero is has a somewhat fluid definition, but in general the kid should be considered one. Being a hero should be weighed in three ways, in my opinion. What was the risk to the potential hero, what was the potential damage that said maybe hero prevented, and what was his motivation.
Obviously his motivation lied in his siblings and his friends, a worthy motivation.
His life really could have been in danger as soon as he "tried to get her attention" People have focused a lot on the tackle itself, which may have been minimally (but still possibly) dangerous. However, I think as soon as you talk to a potentially unstable person with a gun no matter how "weak" it is. Clearly, he was at risk.
Finally, damage control. I think he potentially saved a life and a couple of injuries. Yeah, she's not hitting someone with every bullet, and maybe she doesn't shoot the gun, but she still has the capability to hurt quite a few people.
On September 05 2009 12:28 neobowman wrote: I doubt that too many high school students would be able to tell the difference between different guns either. Great move by the football player.
This was in Mississippi.....I know it's hard for a Canadian to understand, but just about everyone has a gun in the South. Think of Texas, and extrapolate that to the rest of the south and for that matter much of the southwest. The average High School student in Mississippi knows a whole hell of a lot more about guns than say, a High School student in Maryland or Michigan.
They way the police were talking in the article, it seems to me as if they think there could have been deaths. If anyone has better credentials than the police for telling us how fatal a bullet from a gun is, don't hesitate to make us aware of them.
If not, then I think we can say that there was serious risk to the lives of everyone on that bus. Whether or not what our protagonist did was the right move, we can leave that to the philosophers.
On September 05 2009 12:28 neobowman wrote: I doubt that too many high school students would be able to tell the difference between different guns either. Great move by the football player.
This was in Mississippi.....I know it's hard for a Canadian to understand, but just about everyone has a gun in the South. Think of Texas, and extrapolate that to the rest of the south and for that matter much of the southwest. The average High School student in Mississippi knows a whole hell of a lot more about guns than say, a High School student in Maryland or Michigan.
This may be hard for a hardened badass navy SEAL like yourself to understand, but most people aren't thinking about what kind of gun they are facing, rationalizing, then acting on that. They are going, wtf gun.
On September 05 2009 12:28 neobowman wrote: I doubt that too many high school students would be able to tell the difference between different guns either. Great move by the football player.
This was in Mississippi.....I know it's hard for a Canadian to understand, but just about everyone has a gun in the South. Think of Texas, and extrapolate that to the rest of the south and for that matter much of the southwest. The average High School student in Mississippi knows a whole hell of a lot more about guns than say, a High School student in Maryland or Michigan.
This may be hard for a hardened badass navy SEAL like yourself to understand, but most people aren't thinking about what kind of gun they are facing, rationalizing, then acting on that. They are going, wtf gun.
Aegraen's in Coast Guard training, which is clearly more badass than any navy SEAL could ever hope to be.
On September 05 2009 12:28 neobowman wrote: I doubt that too many high school students would be able to tell the difference between different guns either. Great move by the football player.
This was in Mississippi.....I know it's hard for a Canadian to understand, but just about everyone has a gun in the South. Think of Texas, and extrapolate that to the rest of the south and for that matter much of the southwest. The average High School student in Mississippi knows a whole hell of a lot more about guns than say, a High School student in Maryland or Michigan.
This may be hard for a hardened badass navy SEAL like yourself to understand, but most people aren't thinking about what kind of gun they are facing, rationalizing, then acting on that. They are going, wtf gun.
Aegraen's in Coast Guard training, which is clearly more badass than any navy SEAL could ever hope to be.
Yeah he claims to have saved farrrr more that 23 lives lol. Why hasn't he graduated yet?
and CM you're just trolling now, pretty funny I admit
On September 05 2009 12:28 neobowman wrote: I doubt that too many high school students would be able to tell the difference between different guns either. Great move by the football player.
This was in Mississippi.....I know it's hard for a Canadian to understand, but just about everyone has a gun in the South. Think of Texas, and extrapolate that to the rest of the south and for that matter much of the southwest. The average High School student in Mississippi knows a whole hell of a lot more about guns than say, a High School student in Maryland or Michigan.
This may be hard for a hardened badass navy SEAL like yourself to understand, but most people aren't thinking about what kind of gun they are facing, rationalizing, then acting on that. They are going, wtf gun.
Aegraen's in Coast Guard training, which is clearly more badass than any navy SEAL could ever hope to be.
Basically. Green Berets, SEALs, any special forces in the world worth their weight in shit model themselves off of AEGRAEN
On September 05 2009 12:28 neobowman wrote: I doubt that too many high school students would be able to tell the difference between different guns either. Great move by the football player.
This was in Mississippi.....I know it's hard for a Canadian to understand, but just about everyone has a gun in the South. Think of Texas, and extrapolate that to the rest of the south and for that matter much of the southwest. The average High School student in Mississippi knows a whole hell of a lot more about guns than say, a High School student in Maryland or Michigan.
Not everybody in the south has a gun, retarded shit.
NONE~~~~ of the southern people I know from fucking Georgia and Arkansas have been near a gun, so I doubt what your saying is true.
On September 05 2009 10:49 Probe. wrote: How about if someone was holding an AK-47 and screaming that he is pissed off at life and about to kill people. Some kid knowing his and everyone else's life is in danger ensures the safe escape of everyone and tackles the man with the weapon when hes not looking. OH BUT WAIT IT TURNS OUT THERE WERE NO BULLETS IN THE GUN SO THERE WAS NO REAL DANGER. THE KID ISN'T A HERO AFTER ALL.
fucking CharlieMurphy quit trying to sound cool
Although you were sarcastic, what you said is totally true. The move is less heroic when the weapon is less lethal, that's common sense.
-Is she was holding a fully loaded assault rifle, it would be f-king heroic because everyone could die.
-Is she was holding a kitchen knife, stopping her would be nice, not heroic, because the most she could do would be to stab someone's eye.
Stopping someone who has virtually no chance to inflict any damage, it's not heroic. At most, it's brave if the situation looks worse than it is.
Your counter analogies are flawed because in them the perceived threat as well as the actual threat changes, where as in the first the perceived threat is inconsistent with the actual threat.
So I would argue that we should judge how brave someone is based upon the perceived threat and not the actual threat because the actual threat has not effect on action.
Consider this. A grenade is tossed. I dive on it to save my fellow soldiers in my squad.
Whether that grenade is defective or not, I am still being heroic because I, from my situation, have no way of knowing the difference between my prospective fates. That is, while I certainly hope the grenade is defective when I dive, I still am willing to die for my fellow soldiers. The act is equivalent in terms of bravery.
If you want to argue whether or not he is a hero, you can argue what qualifies as a hero, but should not dispute that his act was as courageous as if the chick had a more powerful gun, or ten bullets, or 20.
edit: In addition I feel that what a hero is has a somewhat fluid definition, but in general the kid should be considered one. Being a hero should be weighed in three ways, in my opinion. What was the risk to the potential hero, what was the potential damage that said maybe hero prevented, and what was his motivation.
Obviously his motivation lied in his siblings and his friends, a worthy motivation.
His life really could have been in danger as soon as he "tried to get her attention" People have focused a lot on the tackle itself, which may have been minimally (but still possibly) dangerous. However, I think as soon as you talk to a potentially unstable person with a gun no matter how "weak" it is. Clearly, he was at risk.
Finally, damage control. I think he potentially saved a life and a couple of injuries. Yeah, she's not hitting someone with every bullet, and maybe she doesn't shoot the gun, but she still has the capability to hurt quite a few people.
I made a clear distinction between bravery and heroism in my post, these are two very different things.
Because no, heroism is never based on perceived threat instead of actual threat. You can't be a hero if there was no real danger in the first place.
On September 05 2009 22:08 BlackJack wrote: Well considering she had a loaded gun that she was pointing at people, I guess this makes him brave and a hero.
If you read correctly, you'd notice I never said otherwise. I was answering about the situation described in Probe's post.
On September 05 2009 11:19 Probe. wrote: It doesn't matter what you think the girl might have done or know what she might have done. The fact is SHE HAD A FUCKING GUN and she was emotionally unstable. You can't use rational thoughts on someone who is acting unrational. In the eyes of the boy on the bus he saw a chick with a gun. No need to go into specifics about the gun. And instead of running the fuck out of there (or casual strolling out like CharlieMurphy would do if a gun is pointed at him) he stayed and ensured everyone left unharmed and the girls only means of harm was taken away from her. This selfless act alone makes him a hero.
this made me lol for some reason. Back to the meat of your post, I don't think you guys are reading into my whole perspective of the situation (which is actually kind of ironic because that is the basis of my points) I'm not gonna repeat myself again, just click the all button and ctrl+f to find my posts.
if this guy rode the bus with this girl every day and saw her often enough at school I'm sure he had a good enough read on her to make a totally safe move. It's like If this was my 14 year old sister when I was 18 and she did this I could easily do the same thing because I know what she is and isn't capable of even before the whole situation.
My previous post still stands. You're a sad, sad man...and honestly, I think it's you that needs to get out more. Either that, or you're fourteen.
EPT
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