EPTBut if I heard an intruder in the house late at night, I would call the cops, and scream for them to GTFO, but if they tried coming upstairs, all bets are off.
Home invasion & excessive force. - Page 5
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Powerpill
United States1693 Posts
But if I heard an intruder in the house late at night, I would call the cops, and scream for them to GTFO, but if they tried coming upstairs, all bets are off. | ||
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APurpleCow
United States1372 Posts
On September 02 2009 02:09 IceCube wrote: He said it all. Bravo man! Totally agreed. And I would like to add that if you have the right to shoot a person in your home no matter what (if you feel hes going to steal/harm you in any way) thats just plain stupid. That would just opened a hole in a law where person can kill anyone and then state he/she felt frightened by that persons actions... The law has tons of things like this, they just add a reasonable person clause. It wouldn't be, "If a person feels threatened," it would be, "If a reasonable person would feel threatened." | ||
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Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On September 02 2009 00:20 illu wrote: You may think it's ridiculous, but robbers do not break into your home to kill you - with very few exceptions (probably less likely than being killed by lightning). They break into your home because they want money, and the gun is just to scare you. On the other hand, if you bring a gun to defend yourself, the situation changes. The robber is human too - and thus will defend his life at all costs. When you point your gun at him, despite your so-called "just causes", you just made the robber to be more likely to open fire. So your saying that because the robber might have a gun you should just do nothing and let this guy do whatever he wants? | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
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Forgottenfrog
United States1268 Posts
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DrainX
Sweden3187 Posts
On September 02 2009 03:48 Forgottenfrog wrote: My dad and two nephews were home when we got robbed. My nephews were 4 and 5 at the time and my dad is in his 60's [sad that i dont know my dad's age]. There were 3 guys with guns who repeatedly beat my dad with their guns and tied all 3 of them up. My dad is a war veteran so he fought back which caused the beating. It was a good thing he fought back because they took awhile to tie my dad up, they left without taking much. Now we have cameras around and inside our house. I live in Hawthorne, CA. How is risking your health/life for material gain ever a good thing? | ||
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Alizee-
United States845 Posts
Here's what kills me though, you guys so desperately want a perfect world where we don't have guns and you want them to be gone away with yet at the very same time, you're saying its ok if criminals including robbers and potential murderers exist because...they don't deserve to die. So we're here at Point A, you wanna get to perfect world at Point B, but it sounds like you're ok if along the way getting to point B, we have all the innocent people dead from not being able to defend themselves and thieves running rampant. The people robbing homes know just as much what they're doing and the risks involved as the person defending their home. Ever wonder why more gun crimes occur in gun-FREE zones? Because the criminals know they have a lessened chance of great bodily harm or death. If you guys live in a country where you really have zero to worry about, more power to you. Frankly in America though we have guns and even if the law abiding citizens get rid of theirs, criminals still have them so disarming doesn't work. Secondly with the economy in the shitter and more people out of work than ever, people get desperate which justifies it even more. Bottom line is: be polite, respect others, and no harm will be done. None of us are people who wanna go to OTHERS people homes and harm them, but we just want to be at our home, safe, and with our families. That's life, you live, you die, but nothing is more important than family. | ||
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D10
Brazil3409 Posts
On September 02 2009 03:52 DrainX wrote: How is risking your health/life for material gain ever a good thing? Imagine how much he would be bullied by his old vet buddies if he didnt get beat up... MADNESS ? THIS IS AMERICA | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On September 01 2009 16:10 nttea wrote: well if they attack you and you have a gun the minimum force necessary is a gunshot to the head, im pretty sure of that, so it seems fair to me. it's not like they would charge you if you hold a gun pointed towards them though, so shooting seems like something you should go to jail for. Two wrongs don't make it right! So you wouldn't shoot them if your life depended on it? People aren't always so rational when faced with some crazy bastard(s) breaking into your home. Are you saying that it's better to be tied up and killed? That's just ridiculous tbh. Of course people should be able to defend themselves by any means necessary, everything else is just some theorycrafting. | ||
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Foucault
Sweden2826 Posts
On September 02 2009 03:52 DrainX wrote: How is risking your health/life for material gain ever a good thing? What kind of coward, defeatist attitude is that though? That is sort of accepting the criminals doing what they want and just roll over. It's obviously not just about loosing some things but to be brutalized and have someone enter your home and do what the hell they want. It's not okay for obvious reasons. The self-protection laws in Sweden are the worst ever btw. The guy protecting himself will many times be sued by the criminal who commited the crime in the first place and chances are that the victim of the original crime ends up getting fucked over due to the fact that he defended himself "too much". C'mon, he's not the one doing the original crime and he just reacted in a very normal way. While people getting shot obviously isn't a good thing, nobody should tell you that you can't defend yourself, your family or property if necessary. | ||
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NrG.Bamboo
United States2756 Posts
And I remember talking about this in Criminal Justice class last year. Basically you can use the same force as the intruder, plus one level higher. Meaning if your intruder has no weapon, you can probably beat him/her down with a bat (in my case, a golf club that I for some reason have in my room). If your indruder has a knife, you can shoot (hopefully only enough to "stop" them, not kill them) When it becomes you shooting some unarmed guy who wasn't actually threatening you, it's an issue. Of course you can fight that, but everything else would get you off ezpz. That being in New York, not sure about other states. | ||
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BlackJack
United States10574 Posts
On September 02 2009 03:19 illu wrote: And two week ago, a 5 years old boy in Ontario was killed by lightning. So yea, they seem to have about the same kind of risks. So your point is that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from crimes that are rare? When your daughter is raped and cut into pieces then you can come back here and say that it's okay what happened to her because it was a 1 in a million shot. | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
If someone forces entry into my home, I consider them to be threatening the safety of my family and myself. Simple as that. | ||
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Reuental
United States457 Posts
On September 02 2009 04:39 BlackJack wrote: So your point is that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from crimes that are rare? When your daughter is raped and cut into pieces then you can come back here and say that it's okay what happened to her because it was a 1 in a million shot. Your stance on this subject is obviously emotional. His from what I understand is being objective. Those are the two stances on this subject and no matter what you do you will almost never change anybodies opinion on this. So I think its wrong to bring such a gross mis exaggeration of a situation that is probably a billion to one shot( since you added in the cut into pieces part ) into this conversation. | ||
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Wr3k
Canada2533 Posts
On September 02 2009 07:25 Crabman123 wrote: Your stance on this subject is obviously emotional. His from what I understand is being objective. Those are the two stances on this subject and no matter what you do you will almost never change anybodies opinion on this. So I think its wrong to bring such a gross mis exaggeration of a situation that is probably a billion to one shot( since you added in the cut into pieces part ) into this conversation. I can understand why his position is emotional. The mere idea that it would be possible for someone to enter my home and stab/rape my family is the most enraging thing I can think of. | ||
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Chuiu
3470 Posts
On September 01 2009 16:04 Wr3k wrote: Quoted from an RCMP officer: "The Criminal Code authorizes people to use as much force as necessary to protect themselves and their property," she said. "However, that force must be the minimum amount necessary." Cpl. Patty Neely of the Strathmore RCMP. Do you agree with this? If someone comes into your home with the intent to threaten your life and steal your shit do you really think you should be limited in your actions towards said person? There have been situations in which guns have been held to babies heads, people have been tied up and raped, there was even a case where the invaders tortured and killed their victims (though I don't think it was in Calgary). You're kinda blowing this out of proportion. 'minimum amount necessary' means that you automatically get to match what they have without breaking any laws. If they have a gun or knife and are able to threaten your life you can reciprocate. But if they aren't armed at all are just being a dick on your lawn yelling and screaming then threatening to call the cops or giving them a nice shiner would be well within your rights. And if you're say, half the size of the dude and have no way of matching him then you would be very allowed to have a knife or gun. Just try to use it to scare them away and not preemptively attack them. | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
Although the chances of a serial killer or rapist breaking into your home is quite minute, and the chances that you'll be awake and in the same place as your loaded gun are even smaller. Do that many of you have a fuckin gun in your house? My god... | ||
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theron[wdt]
United States395 Posts
and i quote "I prayed that the police to show up but nobody answered." | ||
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eMbrace
United States1300 Posts
On September 02 2009 08:01 theron[wdt] wrote: nothing says "GTFO" or "stay away from my family" like a 12 gauge. and i quote "I prayed that the police to show up but nobody answered." id hate to be a person who lives in fear of being murdered when they go to sleep if you buy a fuckin shotgun for self-defense purposes you are loony. | ||
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theron[wdt]
United States395 Posts
On September 02 2009 08:04 eMbrace wrote: id hate to be a person who lives in fear of being murdered when they go to sleep if you buy a fuckin shotgun for self-defense purposes you are loony. welcome to riverside. | ||
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