In the 90s there was a guy that went around breaking into young girls apartments, raping them, and stabbing them to death. Maybe in your fairytaile world, if ordinary citizens couldn't own guns and cooperated with intruders, they would never need to defend themselves, but in the real world it doesn't work that way.
And two week ago, a 5 years old boy in Ontario was killed by lightning. So yea, they seem to have about the same kind of risks.
So your point is that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from crimes that are rare? When your daughter is raped and cut into pieces then you can come back here and say that it's okay what happened to her because it was a 1 in a million shot.
Your stance on this subject is obviously emotional. His from what I understand is being objective. Those are the two stances on this subject and no matter what you do you will almost never change anybodies opinion on this. So I think its wrong to bring such a gross mis exaggeration of a situation that is probably a billion to one shot( since you added in the cut into pieces part ) into this conversation.
Here is what he said on his first post..
"What if someone's door was unlocked, and for whatever reason only god knows, I entered purely by accident? Do I get shot?
I think it's bogus; in the end, it's the gun law that causes this problem. If no ordinary citizens can own guns, we won't need stupid laws like this.
How many people have been shot after "accidentally" entering somebody's home? I think we can agree that our opinion of "being objective" is different if you think it's being objective to mock the probability of someone assaulting you in your home while advocating the ban of firearms because there is a chance you could accidentally enter someone's house and be shot.
P.S. and totally off-topic, the town I group in and where my parents still live is Hollywood Florida. We are famous for being the city where America's Most Wanted Host John Walsh's son was cut to pieces and dumped in a canal. It happens more often than you would think.
In the 90s there was a guy that went around breaking into young girls apartments, raping them, and stabbing them to death. Maybe in your fairytaile world, if ordinary citizens couldn't own guns and cooperated with intruders, they would never need to defend themselves, but in the real world it doesn't work that way.
And two week ago, a 5 years old boy in Ontario was killed by lightning. So yea, they seem to have about the same kind of risks.
So your point is that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from crimes that are rare? When your daughter is raped and cut into pieces then you can come back here and say that it's okay what happened to her because it was a 1 in a million shot.
Your stance on this subject is obviously emotional. His from what I understand is being objective. Those are the two stances on this subject and no matter what you do you will almost never change anybodies opinion on this. So I think its wrong to bring such a gross mis exaggeration of a situation that is probably a billion to one shot( since you added in the cut into pieces part ) into this conversation.
"What if someone's door was unlocked, and for whatever reason only god knows, I entered purely by accident? Do I get shot?
I think it's bogus; in the end, it's the gun law that causes this problem. If no ordinary citizens can own guns, we won't need stupid laws like this.
How many people have been shot after "accidentally" entering somebody's home? I think we can agree that our opinion of "being objective" is different if you think it's being objective to mock the probability of someone assaulting you in your home while advocating the ban of firearms because there is a chance you could accidentally enter someone's house and be shot.
P.S. and totally off-topic, the town I group in and where my parents still live is Hollywood Florida. We are famous for being the city where America's Most Wanted Host John Walsh's son was cut to pieces and dumped in a canal. It happens more often than you would think.
I'd love for someone to bring up some statistics of how often people enter houses with the intent of killing random people.
On September 02 2009 08:01 theron[wdt] wrote: nothing says "GTFO" or "stay away from my family" like a 12 gauge.
and i quote "I prayed that the police to show up but nobody answered."
id hate to be a person who lives in fear of being murdered when they go to sleep
if you buy a fuckin shotgun for self-defense purposes you are loony.
I know my Criminal Justice teacher owns a pump-action for "self-defence". The sound of the CHCK CHCK is probably enough to make somebody run the fuck out if they aren't prepared to fight, no need to fire it. If it comes down to it, though, he is probably the kind of person to still shoot if needed = ]
I think your statement is pretty wrong, in the fact that a shotgun is pretty good on a purely psychological level.
In the 90s there was a guy that went around breaking into young girls apartments, raping them, and stabbing them to death. Maybe in your fairytaile world, if ordinary citizens couldn't own guns and cooperated with intruders, they would never need to defend themselves, but in the real world it doesn't work that way.
And two week ago, a 5 years old boy in Ontario was killed by lightning. So yea, they seem to have about the same kind of risks.
So your point is that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from crimes that are rare? When your daughter is raped and cut into pieces then you can come back here and say that it's okay what happened to her because it was a 1 in a million shot.
Your stance on this subject is obviously emotional. His from what I understand is being objective. Those are the two stances on this subject and no matter what you do you will almost never change anybodies opinion on this. So I think its wrong to bring such a gross mis exaggeration of a situation that is probably a billion to one shot( since you added in the cut into pieces part ) into this conversation.
Here is what he said on his first post..
"What if someone's door was unlocked, and for whatever reason only god knows, I entered purely by accident? Do I get shot?
I think it's bogus; in the end, it's the gun law that causes this problem. If no ordinary citizens can own guns, we won't need stupid laws like this.
How many people have been shot after "accidentally" entering somebody's home? I think we can agree that our opinion of "being objective" is different if you think it's being objective to mock the probability of someone assaulting you in your home while advocating the ban of firearms because there is a chance you could accidentally enter someone's house and be shot.
P.S. and totally off-topic, the town I group in and where my parents still live is Hollywood Florida. We are famous for being the city where America's Most Wanted Host John Walsh's son was cut to pieces and dumped in a canal. It happens more often than you would think.
I'd love for someone to bring up some statistics of how often people enter houses with the intent of killing random people.
Id love to bring up statistics of who would kill to protect their family from physical harm. Oh wait no need, its 100%. Sure you are more likely to die in a car accident, or heart disease or something, but honestly I wouldn't gamble with my familys safety even if I had a 99% chance of winning.
On September 02 2009 08:01 theron[wdt] wrote: nothing says "GTFO" or "stay away from my family" like a 12 gauge.
and i quote "I prayed that the police to show up but nobody answered."
id hate to be a person who lives in fear of being murdered when they go to sleep
if you buy a fuckin shotgun for self-defense purposes you are loony.
I know my Criminal Justice teacher owns a pump-action for "self-defence". The sound of the CHCK CHCK is probably enough to make somebody run the fuck out if they aren't prepared to fight, no need to fire it. If it comes down to it, though, he is probably the kind of person to still shoot if needed = ]
I think your statement is pretty wrong, in the fact that a shotgun is pretty good on a purely psychological level.
I'm not saying the sound of a shotgun wouldn't scare people away, I'm saying that the fact that you feel the need to own a firearm to feel safe in your own house is laughable. I mean, if people are getting murdered in your neighborhood on a monthly basis then perhaps there's a bigger problem at hand, but assuming you live in a relatively OK neighborhood, owning a shotgun is ridiculous.
I find it funny that people worry so much about bullshit that never happens that they spend money on things like firearms. Buy a fucking dog, they detect everything, wake you up, and alert the burglar that "oh these people know I'm trying to get in." -- they also make great companions for you and your family.
of course, most petty thieves look for houses that have no signs of people being home, and even then a dog may scare them away.
but you guys are thinking of situations where someone busts into your house with the intent of ripping you to shreds and raping your daughters, where a dog wouldn't be much help.
in which case I'd recommend (if you are so worried), that you send your kids to school equipped with kevlar vests and guns in their backpacks, because a gunman might open fire in their classroom.
that's my view on this, and I'm assuming you don't live in a fucking warzone of a neighborhood, and if you do -- i don't have the right to judge you. but other than that, if you live in the typical area, then you must be a pussy to think you need a gun by your side when you sleep.
Id love to bring up statistics of who would kill to protect their family from physical harm. Oh wait no need, its 100%. Sure you are more likely to die in a car accident, or heart disease or something, but honestly I wouldn't gamble with my familys safety even if I had a 99% chance of winning.
lol ok -- so you patrol your house every night checking for fire hazards right?
or are you too busy protecting your family against shit that won't ever happen?
"i wouldn't gamble with my family's safety even if I had a 99% chance of winning"
you gamble with your family's safety everyday -- it's called living life.
in texas the laws are crazy. There was a guy who saw his neighbors being robbed and went after the kids with a shotgun down the street as they escaped. Can't remember what the outcome was but in texas you can kill people in your house and get away with it.
On September 02 2009 09:02 CharlieMurphy wrote: in texas the laws are crazy. There was a guy who saw his neighbors being robbed and went after the kids with a shotgun down the street as they escaped. Can't remember what the outcome was but in texas you can kill people in your house and get away with it.
i remember hearing a story on the radio about a guy who shot an armed robber in his store. he shot him, disarmed him, and that was it -- the conflict was over and the kid was wounded and lying on the floor.
he leaves the room, comes back with another gun and shoots the helpless thief 5 more times and kills him.
everyone called him a hero, and all the people calling the radio station all supported his decision to kill the thief.
I don't own a gun, but sure as hell grabbing the bat / golf club / longest knife i can find and wacking / clubbing / slicing the bitch till i feel safe and then call the police.
I'd love for someone to bring up some statistics of how often people enter houses with the intent of killing random people.
I think it is obvious now what the law should be. If an armed robber breaks into your house, you have to wait until they shoot you before you can shoot them, because...well chances are they wont.
In the 90s there was a guy that went around breaking into young girls apartments, raping them, and stabbing them to death. Maybe in your fairytaile world, if ordinary citizens couldn't own guns and cooperated with intruders, they would never need to defend themselves, but in the real world it doesn't work that way.
And two week ago, a 5 years old boy in Ontario was killed by lightning. So yea, they seem to have about the same kind of risks.
So your point is that people shouldn't have the right to defend themselves from crimes that are rare? When your daughter is raped and cut into pieces then you can come back here and say that it's okay what happened to her because it was a 1 in a million shot.
Your stance on this subject is obviously emotional. His from what I understand is being objective. Those are the two stances on this subject and no matter what you do you will almost never change anybodies opinion on this. So I think its wrong to bring such a gross mis exaggeration of a situation that is probably a billion to one shot( since you added in the cut into pieces part ) into this conversation.
"What if someone's door was unlocked, and for whatever reason only god knows, I entered purely by accident? Do I get shot?
I think it's bogus; in the end, it's the gun law that causes this problem. If no ordinary citizens can own guns, we won't need stupid laws like this.
How many people have been shot after "accidentally" entering somebody's home? I think we can agree that our opinion of "being objective" is different if you think it's being objective to mock the probability of someone assaulting you in your home while advocating the ban of firearms because there is a chance you could accidentally enter someone's house and be shot.
P.S. and totally off-topic, the town I group in and where my parents still live is Hollywood Florida. We are famous for being the city where America's Most Wanted Host John Walsh's son was cut to pieces and dumped in a canal. It happens more often than you would think.
Maybe not people being shot by "accidentally" coming in to your home but by people who have the intent to steal things but are unarmed and try to escape when you present them with your weapon I believe that you should not have the right to shoot them unless they go for your gun then its fair game.
P.S. totally off-topic response to a totally off-topic topic, Was he raped though? if he was just cut up then it does not disprove the billion to one shot because the billion to one shot is if he was raped THEN cut up. Because of-course theirs a higher chance of you getting killed then cut into pieces than getting raped then killed then cut into pieces.
I'd love for someone to bring up some statistics of how often people enter houses with the intent of killing random people.
I think it is obvious now what the law should be. If an armed robber breaks into your house, you have to wait until they shoot you before you can shoot them, because...well chances are they wont.
I totally missed this was sarcastic for a few seconds and was piecing together an angry response in my mind lol.
Yeah you definitely can't deny people the right to defend themselves in their own homes... although limits have to be set for how easily you are allowed to just shoot at someone.... I'm not sure if I agree with the Texas mentality.
It's funny how everyone from a country other then America is going apeshit over the fact that we think shooting robbers is right.
I think that many other laws in other countries are better, but this is one that makes total sense. If we have the right to kill thieves, then won't they think twice about going into our houses?
On September 02 2009 10:55 GunsofthePatriots wrote: It's funny how everyone from a country other then America is going apeshit over the fact that we think shooting robbers is right.
I think that many other laws in other countries are better, but this is one that makes total sense. If we have the right to kill thieves, then won't they think twice about going into our houses?
Although I understand where you are coming from, be careful. You are stating your viewpoint as though it is somewhat revolutionary even though it is in part the foundation of the debate that's occurred between Americans and citizens of other countries for a long time.... so don't rush to take it as given.
edit: of course not all Americans or foreigners are in agreement amongst themselves either.
On September 02 2009 09:02 CharlieMurphy wrote: in texas the laws are crazy. There was a guy who saw his neighbors being robbed and went after the kids with a shotgun down the street as they escaped. Can't remember what the outcome was but in texas you can kill people in your house and get away with it.
i remember this case, here in texas this guy could have been convicted for shooting the burglars as they fled because at that point there is no immediate danger, but it comes down to the district attorney being willing to prosecute or not, seeing as the public was probably on the side of the neighbor even though the law was probably not, i'm fairly certain he didn't get charged with anything if i'm remembering correctly. so to clarify in texas you can shoot people if they come into your house to steal stuff or w/e pretty much without fear of prosecution, but if they are running away and you chase them and beat them up or shoot them you could certainly be prosecuted for agg assault or murder, w/e.
Also to add, texas is a little crazy i suppose, at nighttime it changes everything with respect to deadly force, you can use deadly force when acts are taking place at night time, offenses like criminal mischief and someone messing around in your car which aren't justifiable during the daytime change at night time. The problem I have is people being too quick to pull the trigger, people get killed over stealing a car stereo or a chair or some property worth a couple hundred bucks, i don't think that is just punishment, I also remembering hearing a story of a drunk guy who was from europe walking back to where he was staying, he was lost and walked into the wrong house and was shot trying to open the door. anyway most burglaries take place when no one is home, but those at night are pretty scary if you are home and warrant the necessary self defense
The clause is to prevent a free license to do anything you want to a person with the justification of self-defense. If they didn't have this clause, they couldn't lay a hand on you if you claim self-defense.
There's a point where you're afraid and there's a point where you want to punish them, and the point where you want to punish them makes you a killer.
For instance, a 10 year old teenager sneaks into your yard to vandalize your house. In response, you gun him down with an assault weapon, and then you pump his head full of bullets and set his body on fire. I'm pretty sure you should be prosecuted.
Or you find your significant other cheating on you with your best friend in your house. Trespasser! you yell before you set his balls on fire, cut his tendons, blindfold him and drown him in a toilet.
Defending yourself with deadly force is one thing. Thinking you should be able to carry out justice, and in effect execute the death penalty on your own is another.
On September 02 2009 09:02 CharlieMurphy wrote: in texas the laws are crazy. There was a guy who saw his neighbors being robbed and went after the kids with a shotgun down the street as they escaped. Can't remember what the outcome was but in texas you can kill people in your house and get away with it.
Here in Texas, pretty close to where I live (about 15 minutes), a man (Joe Horn was his name I think) saw his neighbors house being robbed, he called 911, and was with them for a couple of minutes, eventually he got his shotgun out and told the dispatch he was gonna shoot them, obviously 911 told him to calm down and stay in his home, he saw the guys running out of his neighbors house, ran ouside and shot them both. And the cops were right around the corner. The guy got off clean with nothing, but it sparked massive debates over laws here in texas.
Oo found the 911 call .. you can hear everything, from the loading of the gun to the shooting.
This may have been the story you were talking about.
Another crazy thing happened here in Texas, some teenage kids tried to rob a dude delivering ice cream and other snacks to a gas station, and one of them was shot and killed, and I dont think the guy got in any trouble.
I'm happy i lived my teenage years in germany and not in the USA. All you psycho cowboys in this thread would have probably killed me 5 times while I was in some other people's gardens at night playing a prank....
On September 02 2009 08:01 theron[wdt] wrote: nothing says "GTFO" or "stay away from my family" like a 12 gauge.
and i quote "I prayed that the police to show up but nobody answered."
id hate to be a person who lives in fear of being murdered when they go to sleep
if you buy a fuckin shotgun for self-defense purposes you are loony.
I know my Criminal Justice teacher owns a pump-action for "self-defence". The sound of the CHCK CHCK is probably enough to make somebody run the fuck out if they aren't prepared to fight, no need to fire it. If it comes down to it, though, he is probably the kind of person to still shoot if needed = ]
I think your statement is pretty wrong, in the fact that a shotgun is pretty good on a purely psychological level.
I'm not saying the sound of a shotgun wouldn't scare people away, I'm saying that the fact that you feel the need to own a firearm to feel safe in your own house is laughable. I mean, if people are getting murdered in your neighborhood on a monthly basis then perhaps there's a bigger problem at hand, but assuming you live in a relatively OK neighborhood, owning a shotgun is ridiculous.
I find it funny that people worry so much about bullshit that never happens that they spend money on things like firearms. Buy a fucking dog, they detect everything, wake you up, and alert the burglar that "oh these people know I'm trying to get in." -- they also make great companions for you and your family.
of course, most petty thieves look for houses that have no signs of people being home, and even then a dog may scare them away.
but you guys are thinking of situations where someone busts into your house with the intent of ripping you to shreds and raping your daughters, where a dog wouldn't be much help.
in which case I'd recommend (if you are so worried), that you send your kids to school equipped with kevlar vests and guns in their backpacks, because a gunman might open fire in their classroom.
that's my view on this, and I'm assuming you don't live in a fucking warzone of a neighborhood, and if you do -- i don't have the right to judge you. but other than that, if you live in the typical area, then you must be a pussy to think you need a gun by your side when you sleep.
My dad bought a gun when my parents were dating, and my mom was being stalked by one of her ex-boyfriends and felt very threatened, even at home. Their house was very shitty, and although living in a quiet place, there was not much force needed to get inside.
Does it seem unreasonable here? Just wondering your opinion, not trying to fight back or anything.
EPT
