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NBA Offseason Thread 2009 - Page 22

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tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
June 30 2009 01:35 GMT
#421
On June 30 2009 08:07 Xeris wrote:
Why is there an exponential increase in the amount of insider only content at ESPN? It seems like about 80% of everything posted since the finals is insider only. It's so fucking frustrating.

Yeah, it's really pissing me off.
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
June 30 2009 01:37 GMT
#422
On June 30 2009 07:32 poor newb wrote:
the rockets with no yao and no tmac somehow managed to be the closest team to beating the lakers in the playoffs who took them to 7 games, something must have worked for them, it wont be wise to break them up


The difficulty with the NBA is that anything less than finishing first is considered a failure. There's no glory for 2nd or 3rd, teams are either champions or "the rest". While the Rockets came the closest to beating the Lakers, it's hard to argue that a Yao-less Rockets team should be considered actual contenders for a championship.

If you accept that truth, then the next truth to realize is that the Rockets have a lot of money locked up in a guy who may never play again (Yao) and a guy who doesn't produce the way he should for what he's paid (TMac). It's going to be next to impossible to move Yao in light of his serious health issues, and TMac is only going to get them pennies-on-the-dollar value in trades because of his durability issues. That's a very tough financial situation to be in, to have almost all of your money invested in two players who aren't giving you anything, particularly in this current economic climate.

The writing on the wall is clear with the news on Yao's health, and it's that the Rockets need to go into a full rebuilding phase because the Yao-TMac experiment is over. Teams need Allstars to lead them to championships, and the Rockets don't have any. Artest is talented, but he's no leader, and he's shown himself to be unreliable as anything more than a 3rd option. It's not easy finding Allstar leaders, and the Rockets have very few options open to them right now or in the near future without some drastic changes.

If Morey is as smart as I think he is, I think he'll see what he's being forced to do now. Hopefully, he won't fall into the trap of "trying to remain competitive" while also rebuilding, which only ever lands teams in mediocrity and never a championship. It would be nothing short of a miracle if he's able to somehow turn Yao, TMac and Artest, and a group of role players, into an Allstar leader and solid building blocks in the near furture. The more likely scenario is him finding a way to unload all three from Houston's books, while hopefully getting some value for TMac and/or Artest in the process, and rebuilding through freeing up cap space and draft picks. I don't see how they could possibly do so in time for the infamous 2010 free agent class, but that'd be a nice opportunity to find a new Allstar or two to build around.

In the end, I expect that it will be 3-4 seasons before the Rockets will be able to become a serious competitor in the Western Conference again. It will be interesting to see how the Rockets go about rebuilding their team completely, as it will be a great exhibition for the power of the math and science side of basketball.
Moderator
KaRnaGe[cF]
Profile Joined September 2007
United States355 Posts
June 30 2009 02:53 GMT
#423
Indiana Pacers got Tyler Hansborough woo!
"We must remember that one man is much the same as another, and that he is best who is trained in the severest school." - Athenian General Thucydides Quantum Gaming
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
June 30 2009 03:44 GMT
#424
On June 30 2009 07:45 tenbagger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 30 2009 05:45 Hot_Bid wrote:
I have faith in Morey though, the Rockets will be fine.


ditto.

morey is the theo epstein of basketball.



yep.

http://nba.fanhouse.com/2009/06/29/houston-rockets-starting-first-of-kind-partnership-nba-d-league/

Smart man
returns upon momentous occasions.
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
June 30 2009 04:39 GMT
#425
I don't know why it took this long for it to happen
seriously
unknown.sam
Profile Joined May 2007
Philippines2701 Posts
June 30 2009 05:05 GMT
#426
im shocked and saddened to hear the news about yao. playing for almost the whole season was gonna take its toll i guess.
"Thanks for the kind words, but if SS is the most interesting book you've ever read, you must have just started reading a couple of weeks ago." - Mark Rippetoe
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
June 30 2009 06:58 GMT
#427
So how much did the Chinese team commitments ruin Yao?
returns upon momentous occasions.
BalliSLife
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
1339 Posts
June 30 2009 07:19 GMT
#428
just made it came faster, i guess it was inevitable anyway.
Ya well, at least I don't fuck a fleshlight with a condom on and cry at the same time.
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
June 30 2009 09:21 GMT
#429
Nah, if he got a summer's worth of rest once in a while his foot wouldn't have broken down
returns upon momentous occasions.
unknown.sam
Profile Joined May 2007
Philippines2701 Posts
June 30 2009 12:05 GMT
#430
maybe it wouldn't have broken down in this year's post season, but it was gonna happen sooner or later
"Thanks for the kind words, but if SS is the most interesting book you've ever read, you must have just started reading a couple of weeks ago." - Mark Rippetoe
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14912 Posts
June 30 2009 13:58 GMT
#431
What I really hope, is that the Rockets owner has enough long term vision to give Morey 5 years to actually install the team that he wants. He has to be sure not to do what the Knicks did, or what the Rockets did before when their franchise big man started to break down, which was trade him for 30% and go into cap oblivion for years

Patience Rockets owner, patience
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
June 30 2009 15:38 GMT
#432
On June 30 2009 21:05 unknown.sam wrote:
maybe it wouldn't have broken down in this year's post season, but it was gonna happen sooner or later


Well all players have to stop playing "sooner or later", whether it's due to some injury or getting too old. The issue isn't whether he would have eventually broken down, but rather how much healthier he might have been in the past few years and how much longer he could have played before his foot injuries reached this point if he had taken most of the summers off (no way to expect him not to play in the Beijing Olympics).

Did Yao always have a shorter shelflife than most NBA players? Very likely, since his size puts an incredible amount of strain on his lower body. Could he have had more productive years and not broken down so early in his career if he had more time to rest in the offseasons? Very likely, since it's almost impossible that playing year-around, as opposed to just the NBA season, doesn't add a significant amount of additional strain on his body in general. The fact that he managed to play almost an entire season, including the first round of the postseason, even after all the injuries, shows that he likely had the capacity to be healthy for an entire season if he had been allowed to be more careful with his playing time.
Moderator
HonestTea *
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
5007 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-06-30 17:38:37
June 30 2009 17:37 GMT
#433
AAAAnd Michael Curry is out

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4297296

No replacement announced yet...
JVG acceptable.
in my wildest dreams I dream of Laimbeer.

Joe, Joe, Joe... help me keep my faith
returns upon momentous occasions.
Judicator
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States7270 Posts
June 30 2009 18:37 GMT
#434
On July 01 2009 02:37 HonestTea wrote:
AAAAnd Michael Curry is out

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4297296

No replacement announced yet...
JVG acceptable.
in my wildest dreams I dream of Laimbeer.

Joe, Joe, Joe... help me keep my faith


....you do know who Laimbeer is right? NOBODY in the NBA will vouch for the guy, and that's saying ALOT about his character.
Get it by your hands...
Deleted User 30223
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
3104 Posts
June 30 2009 19:01 GMT
#435
bah. yao. you almost had an injury-free season until the postseason. and now you have to miss more than an entire season? what?
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
June 30 2009 19:40 GMT
#436
Going to have to backtrack on my previous post about Houston's dire situation with Yao being out for an indefinite amount of time. It looks like the Rockets, even with TMac and Yao's contracts, had a very small payroll and are actually still in pretty good shape despite the injuries finance-wise. Here's a link to an Inside-only article at ESPN, but the intro paragraph gives an idea of their situation.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/insider/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=Yao-090630
Moderator
TheMusiC
Profile Joined January 2004
United States1054 Posts
June 30 2009 19:46 GMT
#437
i don't have an insider account, but this was posted on another forum (if i'm not allowed to paste this here let me know):

+ Show Spoiler +
Rockets still have options without Yao
Faced with the possibility of losing Yao, the Rockets could bounce back better than most
Comment Email Print Share

By John Hollinger
ESPN.com
Archive
Plan B.

It's something not enough NBA teams talk about, and maybe more of them should. Because in a league where the whims of injuries mean franchise players can be here today, gone tomorrow, vague concepts like "cap flexibility" and "luxury tax planning" can become hugely important overnight.

The Houston Rockets are perhaps the league's best example of this. Three years ago they had two All-Stars in Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming, but lost in the first round of the playoffs. Two years ago they lost Yao late in the season, still ripped off 22 straight wins, and nearly won the division before, again, losing in the first round of the playoffs.

This year, they lost McGrady at midyear, then lost Yao in the playoffs, and somehow split the final four games of the series against the world champion Lakers without both -- even though they had $25 million in salaries going up against L.A's $75 million.

The reason? By carefully managing their cap and luxury tax situation, they put themselves in position to always have a Plan B. By the end of last year, Houston had so many decent role players, fill-ins and one-year contracts on the roster that it could compete with the league's best even after losing McGrady, Yao and Dikembe Mutombo.

Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, Luis Scola, Kyle Lowry, Von Wafer and Chuck Hayes were all rotation players for the Rockets last season -- and all of them were chosen 24th or later in their respective drafts and made less than $3.5 million last season. Hayes and Wafer weren't drafted at all, but Hayes started the last four games of the Laker series while Wafer scored double figures twice in the final three games.

By focusing not only on Plan A but also Plans B and C, the Rockets built in enough roster flexibility to compete anyway even with two maximum contract players sidelined.

And it's a good thing, because this year they may end up around Plan E before it's all said and done.

McGrady is already done for much of the coming season, if not all of it, after undergoing microfracture knee surgery in the offseason. And now comes word that Yao's recovery from a broken foot isn't going according to plan; Rockets team doctor Tom Clanton told the Houston Chronicle on Monday that "the injury has the potential for him missing this next season and could be career threatening."

Yao will have more tests and the Rockets are staying quiet until they know the results, but obviously this throws a huge monkey wrench into their plans for next season right as free agency opens up.

Re-signing free agent forward Ron Artest, for one example, makes a lot more sense if he can be paired with a healthy Yao and one or two other new pieces to make a run at a championship. But if keeping him means a potential dip into the luxury tax and the team isn't capable of winning the title, then it's pointless -- in fact, it's worse, as a multiyear deal for Artest would cut into their potential cap space in 2010.

That's the other part of the equation -- Yao's foot woes change the entire game as far as Houston's future. Up 'til now, the presumption was that Yao would opt out of his deal next summer, the Rockets would pony up the cash to re-sign him to another long-term deal, and that would be that.

Now?


Now a whole range of possibilities has opened up, both for good and bad. Yao presumably wouldn't opt out of a guaranteed $17 million if he played an injury-riddled season on one leg, which eliminates one variable from Houston's future plans.

But it adds others, in part because the Rockets have been so good at keeping Plan B options alive. Houston could have more than $20 million in cap space next year, potentially allowing an overnight rebuild; additionally, the Rockets have a copious lack of poisonous contracts aside from Yao and McGrady and multiple contributors at nearly every position, making them an extremely flexible trade partner.

Going forward, one option Houston could pursue is the Donnie Walsh approach, focusing on the star-studded 2010 free agent market. Doing so would mean essentially sitting out of this year's free-agent market, letting Artest go and offering only one-year deals or inexpensive multiyear deals to spare parts (retaining Wafer, also a free agent, might be more easily attained). While the Rockets have specialized in getting decent players on such deals, the odds of getting a true impact player out of this are stacked against them, and the result would most likely be a win total in the 30s or low 40s.

However, Houston's odds of hitting the free-agent jackpot are higher than most teams'. First, Yao would either be back on his feet in 2010-11 or offer a mammoth expiring contract that could be traded for more help; either way a prospective free agent wouldn't be joining an empty cupboard, especially with the multitudes of contributing role players I mentioned above.

Additionally, players love Houston. This always surprises people (like, um, me) given how many ordinary citizens can't wait to flee the place, but several NBA players spend their offseasons in Houston. Texas' lack of state income taxes is another inducement, as is, I would presume, the Yao halo regarding endorsement opportunities in the world's most populous country. Also, some suspect the Houston market may be especially alluring to players who hail from Texas, especially those who play in Canada for a losing team.

This approach offers the most abrupt exit from the Yao-McGrady nucleus, but it comes at a cost of essentially punting the 2009-10 season.

The other approach might be called "assume the best and plan for the worst." This would entail planning on Yao being available for at least part of the 2009-10 season and the Rockets making an honest go of contending once he's back. Presumably this would involve signing or trading for a quality big man to hold down the center spot while Yao is out and serve as a sixth man when he's returned.

It would also entail either re-signing Artest or acquiring an equivalent talent, and converting McGrady's $23 million whopper of an expiring contract into players who could provide some immediate help. The drawback, however, is that such moves would considerably cut into their space in the coveted 2010 market and might eliminate it entirely.

Finally, there's another factor to consider: The luxury tax. It's one thing to go over it when Yao is healthy and everyone is excited about taking the Lakers to seven games; it's another when $40 million of contracts might be on the sidelines and only about $35 million on the court. The Rockets would almost certainly go over if they re-signed Artest and Wafer, and would go far above it if they signed a veteran big man, making the option I outlined above as expensive to their present as it is to their future.

In fact, we may already have seen a window into the Rockets' thinking on draft day, when Houston already knew Yao's situation. The Rockets spent a midlevel exception's worth of owner Les Alexander's dough -- roughly $6 million -- acquiring three second-round picks that day. One wonders if this was in lieu of spending on the real midlevel exception, and if it signaled that the Donnie Walsh plan is more in vogue barring a jaw-dropping offer for McGrady.

Other evidence of this approach was left on the cutting room floor Thursday -- the Rockets were rumored to be involved in several offers involving McGrady, Shane Battier (owed more than $7 million in 2011), and the pursuit of assets like the second overall pick and Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio; we have no idea how much fire was behind that smoke since none of those deals were consummated, but it's worth noting.

As free agency opens this week, keeping an eye on Houston will clue you in to the Rockets' strategy. If they're wooing Artest and other coveted veteran wings (Anthony Parker, Shawn Marion, Josh Childress) and working the phones for a big man, then it's full-steam ahead with or without Yao.

And if not? Take it as a signal that they're getting prepped for the summer of 2010, with shopping McGrady likely the main personnel activity between now and then.

Either way, it's a tribute to their roster management of the past three years that they still have so many credible options going forward. The Rockets might be able to make the playoffs with two max contract players missing the entire season, and that would be amazing. Or they could emerge from next summer rebuilt overnight, which would be equally amazing.

That they can do either owes to the fact that they've always left the door open for a Plan B, and a Plan C, and so on. If Yao Ming's injury costs him the season or even beyond, that's a crushing blow. But it's one Houston has built itself to recover from relatively quickly. Few other franchises could say the same thing.
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
June 30 2009 20:44 GMT
#438
I find it funny that Joe booted Curry after he talked about how much he liked the guy and had his back. Don't get me wrong I'm fucking happy that he's gone.
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
tonight
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States11130 Posts
June 30 2009 20:45 GMT
#439
On July 01 2009 04:46 TheMusiC wrote:
i don't have an insider account, but this was posted on another forum (if i'm not allowed to paste this here let me know):

+ Show Spoiler +
Rockets still have options without Yao
Faced with the possibility of losing Yao, the Rockets could bounce back better than most
Comment Email Print Share

By John Hollinger
ESPN.com
Archive
Plan B.

It's something not enough NBA teams talk about, and maybe more of them should. Because in a league where the whims of injuries mean franchise players can be here today, gone tomorrow, vague concepts like "cap flexibility" and "luxury tax planning" can become hugely important overnight.

The Houston Rockets are perhaps the league's best example of this. Three years ago they had two All-Stars in Tracy McGrady and Yao Ming, but lost in the first round of the playoffs. Two years ago they lost Yao late in the season, still ripped off 22 straight wins, and nearly won the division before, again, losing in the first round of the playoffs.

This year, they lost McGrady at midyear, then lost Yao in the playoffs, and somehow split the final four games of the series against the world champion Lakers without both -- even though they had $25 million in salaries going up against L.A's $75 million.

The reason? By carefully managing their cap and luxury tax situation, they put themselves in position to always have a Plan B. By the end of last year, Houston had so many decent role players, fill-ins and one-year contracts on the roster that it could compete with the league's best even after losing McGrady, Yao and Dikembe Mutombo.

Aaron Brooks, Carl Landry, Luis Scola, Kyle Lowry, Von Wafer and Chuck Hayes were all rotation players for the Rockets last season -- and all of them were chosen 24th or later in their respective drafts and made less than $3.5 million last season. Hayes and Wafer weren't drafted at all, but Hayes started the last four games of the Laker series while Wafer scored double figures twice in the final three games.

By focusing not only on Plan A but also Plans B and C, the Rockets built in enough roster flexibility to compete anyway even with two maximum contract players sidelined.

And it's a good thing, because this year they may end up around Plan E before it's all said and done.

McGrady is already done for much of the coming season, if not all of it, after undergoing microfracture knee surgery in the offseason. And now comes word that Yao's recovery from a broken foot isn't going according to plan; Rockets team doctor Tom Clanton told the Houston Chronicle on Monday that "the injury has the potential for him missing this next season and could be career threatening."

Yao will have more tests and the Rockets are staying quiet until they know the results, but obviously this throws a huge monkey wrench into their plans for next season right as free agency opens up.

Re-signing free agent forward Ron Artest, for one example, makes a lot more sense if he can be paired with a healthy Yao and one or two other new pieces to make a run at a championship. But if keeping him means a potential dip into the luxury tax and the team isn't capable of winning the title, then it's pointless -- in fact, it's worse, as a multiyear deal for Artest would cut into their potential cap space in 2010.

That's the other part of the equation -- Yao's foot woes change the entire game as far as Houston's future. Up 'til now, the presumption was that Yao would opt out of his deal next summer, the Rockets would pony up the cash to re-sign him to another long-term deal, and that would be that.

Now?


Now a whole range of possibilities has opened up, both for good and bad. Yao presumably wouldn't opt out of a guaranteed $17 million if he played an injury-riddled season on one leg, which eliminates one variable from Houston's future plans.

But it adds others, in part because the Rockets have been so good at keeping Plan B options alive. Houston could have more than $20 million in cap space next year, potentially allowing an overnight rebuild; additionally, the Rockets have a copious lack of poisonous contracts aside from Yao and McGrady and multiple contributors at nearly every position, making them an extremely flexible trade partner.

Going forward, one option Houston could pursue is the Donnie Walsh approach, focusing on the star-studded 2010 free agent market. Doing so would mean essentially sitting out of this year's free-agent market, letting Artest go and offering only one-year deals or inexpensive multiyear deals to spare parts (retaining Wafer, also a free agent, might be more easily attained). While the Rockets have specialized in getting decent players on such deals, the odds of getting a true impact player out of this are stacked against them, and the result would most likely be a win total in the 30s or low 40s.

However, Houston's odds of hitting the free-agent jackpot are higher than most teams'. First, Yao would either be back on his feet in 2010-11 or offer a mammoth expiring contract that could be traded for more help; either way a prospective free agent wouldn't be joining an empty cupboard, especially with the multitudes of contributing role players I mentioned above.

Additionally, players love Houston. This always surprises people (like, um, me) given how many ordinary citizens can't wait to flee the place, but several NBA players spend their offseasons in Houston. Texas' lack of state income taxes is another inducement, as is, I would presume, the Yao halo regarding endorsement opportunities in the world's most populous country. Also, some suspect the Houston market may be especially alluring to players who hail from Texas, especially those who play in Canada for a losing team.

This approach offers the most abrupt exit from the Yao-McGrady nucleus, but it comes at a cost of essentially punting the 2009-10 season.

The other approach might be called "assume the best and plan for the worst." This would entail planning on Yao being available for at least part of the 2009-10 season and the Rockets making an honest go of contending once he's back. Presumably this would involve signing or trading for a quality big man to hold down the center spot while Yao is out and serve as a sixth man when he's returned.

It would also entail either re-signing Artest or acquiring an equivalent talent, and converting McGrady's $23 million whopper of an expiring contract into players who could provide some immediate help. The drawback, however, is that such moves would considerably cut into their space in the coveted 2010 market and might eliminate it entirely.

Finally, there's another factor to consider: The luxury tax. It's one thing to go over it when Yao is healthy and everyone is excited about taking the Lakers to seven games; it's another when $40 million of contracts might be on the sidelines and only about $35 million on the court. The Rockets would almost certainly go over if they re-signed Artest and Wafer, and would go far above it if they signed a veteran big man, making the option I outlined above as expensive to their present as it is to their future.

In fact, we may already have seen a window into the Rockets' thinking on draft day, when Houston already knew Yao's situation. The Rockets spent a midlevel exception's worth of owner Les Alexander's dough -- roughly $6 million -- acquiring three second-round picks that day. One wonders if this was in lieu of spending on the real midlevel exception, and if it signaled that the Donnie Walsh plan is more in vogue barring a jaw-dropping offer for McGrady.

Other evidence of this approach was left on the cutting room floor Thursday -- the Rockets were rumored to be involved in several offers involving McGrady, Shane Battier (owed more than $7 million in 2011), and the pursuit of assets like the second overall pick and Spanish point guard Ricky Rubio; we have no idea how much fire was behind that smoke since none of those deals were consummated, but it's worth noting.

As free agency opens this week, keeping an eye on Houston will clue you in to the Rockets' strategy. If they're wooing Artest and other coveted veteran wings (Anthony Parker, Shawn Marion, Josh Childress) and working the phones for a big man, then it's full-steam ahead with or without Yao.

And if not? Take it as a signal that they're getting prepped for the summer of 2010, with shopping McGrady likely the main personnel activity between now and then.

Either way, it's a tribute to their roster management of the past three years that they still have so many credible options going forward. The Rockets might be able to make the playoffs with two max contract players missing the entire season, and that would be amazing. Or they could emerge from next summer rebuilt overnight, which would be equally amazing.

That they can do either owes to the fact that they've always left the door open for a Plan B, and a Plan C, and so on. If Yao Ming's injury costs him the season or even beyond, that's a crushing blow. But it's one Houston has built itself to recover from relatively quickly. Few other franchises could say the same thing.

thanks
if I come without a thing, then I come with all I need @tonightsend
XaI)CyRiC
Profile Joined October 2002
United States4471 Posts
June 30 2009 20:54 GMT
#440
Anyone think that, in addition to just being a smart guy, one of the reasons why Morey was maintaining such flexibility and had a Plan B, C, or even D, was because of the known problems with their two stars' durability? If you know that the two biggest contracts on your team are always on the verge of missing significant time due to injury, then you have a real strong incentive to maintain financial flexibility. The most amazing part of the Rockets' situation is that they were able to accomplish so much while spending so little.
Moderator
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