• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 05:27
CEST 11:27
KST 18:27
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview4[ASL21] Ro4 Preview: On Course12Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview7[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13
Community News
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results2Weekly Cups (May 4-10): Clem, MaxPax, herO win1Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !11Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO4 & Finals Preview Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO8 Results Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - The Finalists MaNa leaves Team Liquid
Tourneys
GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament KSL Week 89 2026 GSL Season 2 Qualifiers Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 525 Wheel of Misfortune The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes Mutation # 523 Firewall
Brood War
General
vespene.gg — BW replays in browser Pros React to: TvT Masterclass in FlaSh vs Light BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion
Tourneys
[BSL22] RO8 Bracket Stage + Another TieBreaker [ASL21] Semifinals B [ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2
Strategy
Muta micro map competition Fighting Spirit mining rates [G] Hydra ZvZ: An Introduction Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2098 users

Civ IV BTS anyone? - Page 4

Forum Index > General Games
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
January 04 2009 23:09 GMT
#61
people prolly just forgot.
im interested! signing in now
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-04 23:14:07
January 04 2009 23:12 GMT
#62
yeah just like I figured, I can't see the game on the game list. im in the LAN lobby, im connected and I see you three on hamachi (status is green too), I forwarded ports and I have BTS 3.17 loaded but I still cannot see it :[
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-04 23:14:20
January 04 2009 23:13 GMT
#63
True, but also I just realized...since I can't actually start the game until everyone's in the lobby, you guys will have to also wait in the lobby until tomorrow.

So I'll leave the game open the full 24 hours like I said i would, but if you guys don't want to leave your computer on all day and night, then you can just try to sign in like 2 hours before I scheduled this to start =/

Edit: hmmm...odd, people seemed to connect just fine when I ran test games. Let me try to figure out what may be wrong.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
January 04 2009 23:15 GMT
#64
well I cant even join your game, I dont see it
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
January 04 2009 23:36 GMT
#65
I was afraid that since I'm behind a router (which I'm unable to forward the ports for at this time) people would be unable to come into my game. I thought that it'd be fine since I tested this system out with 2 people and it seemed to work ok.

Although Zelniq seemed to have problems connecting and I think a few others may have similar problems. So would there be anyone willing to host just in case? Hosting a pitboss game is pretty easy (and it should already be installed into your game if you have the latest patch).
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-05 02:04:01
January 05 2009 02:00 GMT
#66
Well I should be ready.

Edit: Also don't forget to switch off simultaneous turns or I don't think the saving will work...
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
January 05 2009 02:21 GMT
#67
I got questions.

I suck, so will I get wiped out on turn 200 after spending 10 hours playing?

How exactly does this turn stuff work? From what I can tell, it's procedural - one player makes his move while everyone else is frozen, then it's the next player's turn when he hits "done." Holy shit, but that could make a game last like 500 hours with just 10 players, couldn't it? Do you just have to deal with waiting 20 minutes in between turns?
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-05 02:30:51
January 05 2009 02:22 GMT
#68
lol yeah, I turned it off just now. Guess you're going to wait until tomorrow to join? I see you were in the lobby earlier, but I guess you left.

Edit: It could possibly take that long, yes. But since we're playing with pitboss, you won't have to sit there the whole time.

Also I'm hoping that people at least have a vague understanding of the game and won't dawdle too long on their turns, and hopefully we can have a few marathon gaming sessions where we can get through a whole age.

Edit2: oh, and you may get wiped out...that's kind of the risk you're taking with this
Edit3: for reference, if all the people who play this are active, and we get in 3 good sessions of continuous turns, I hope to finish this game within 1-2 weeks.
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
January 05 2009 04:02 GMT
#69
Oh, more questions:

I want to see how better players play. Is there some sort of "replay" functionality? Is there a place where I can get them?

Do you get to choose your country/leader? (Can't tell from the posted rules - maybe it's there but I don't recognize it.)

What's the purpose of putting in computers? Buffers between players? Aren't they abusable?

How does diplomacy between players work? Is everyone really sitting there chatting for the time in between their turns, so that they can respond to each others' trade requests? Would it work to accept a truckload of gold from someone to declare war on another, but never actually attack him?

I suppose most of these could be answered by sitting down and playing, but I'm under the impression that you already started a game which will apparently take >1 week...
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-05 04:15:54
January 05 2009 04:13 GMT
#70
On January 05 2009 13:02 BottleAbuser wrote:
Oh, more questions:

1) I want to see how better players play. Is there some sort of "replay" functionality? Is there a place where I can get them?

2 )Do you get to choose your country/leader? (Can't tell from the posted rules - maybe it's there but I don't recognize it.)

3) What's the purpose of putting in computers? Buffers between players? Aren't they abusable?

4a) How does diplomacy between players work? Is everyone really sitting there chatting for the time in between their turns, so that they can respond to each others' trade requests? 4b) Would it work to accept a truckload of gold from someone to declare war on another, but never actually attack him?

I suppose most of these could be answered by sitting down and playing, but I'm under the impression that you already started a game which will apparently take >1 week...
(numbered to make it easier to respond)

1) you can try civfanatics.com I know they have a lot of strategies listed there, as for replays, there aren't any replays like in SC. However you might find some decent battle reports in the forums.

2) You can, however for the sake of streamlining the start of this game I have everyone set as random.

3) The computers aren't very abusable at all. At least not in the sense that SC comps are abusable (which is what I think you're thinking of). The point of adding them is mostly to fill up space, and also I can have it set so that the computer can act as a placeholder until somebody takes control, at which point it becomes the players responsibility to finish the game. Right now I don't have any comps since I don't know how many people are going to join (the game hasn't started yet, I just have the lobby opened up, you can still join if you want ^_^).

4a) Yeah, pretty much. 4b) Yeah, you can lie, just like in real life. Just remember that if you lie, you won't really be doing much to help your reputation, and probably will find a hard time getting help later in the game...or not, it depends purely how forgiving the players will be

and remember if you want to play, you still can, the lobby's going to be up for another 16-18 hours before I hit start. (right now, there's noone in the lobby, and about 5 people who I think will choose to show up tomorrow =/ )
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-05 04:33:40
January 05 2009 04:23 GMT
#71
As far as paying someone to declare war on another and never doing it... it's impossible to do if you go through the diplomacy that the game allows. You will automatically declare. I suppose a player could pay you off "unofficially" but there's really no reason anyone would do that. Now you can not do anything except defend and pretty much get free gold (if your opponent leaves you alone), which comps love to do, but you're probably going to be incurring the wrath of someone. There's generally not much incentive to be an arse unless you believe in the might of your civilization...

I know if someone pisses me off I will focus soley on destroying them until someone else one ups them.
frankbg
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
Canada335 Posts
January 05 2009 04:33 GMT
#72
whats pitboss?
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
January 05 2009 04:36 GMT
#73
On January 01 2009 23:00 TheYango wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 01 2009 16:34 Falcynn wrote:
On January 01 2009 16:15 TheYango wrote:
On January 01 2009 15:29 ShloobeR wrote:
I wanna play but... timezones ... : (

Another reason why PBEM > Live games for Civ IV.
By PBEM I'm assuming you mean "play by e-mail"? If that's true, do you literally mean playing by e-mail? Because that seems like it'd get pretty tedious.

Or is there a way to keep a game live and we just take our turns whenever we're able and you want to play that way? If so, that seems like it might work.

Yeah, not literally be e-mail. Use the pitboss application to set up a server.

+ Show Spoiler +

PitBoss
The PitBoss is a unique application allowing the epic nature of Civilization to finally be easily integrated into the multiplayer realm. It is a lightweight application with a simple interface. While running, players will be able to log in and continue their progress in a game at any time. Once satisfied, players are welcome to log out and continue later.

Participating in a Pitboss Game:

Participating in a PitBoss game is simple. Join the game like you would any other; select a PitBoss game in the LAN or Internet lobby, or connect directly to a known IP Address. Aside from the indication in the 'PB' column of the lobbies, the fact that the game is being run by The PitBoss should be completely invisible to you when joining.

Once you are in the game, however, Civilization IV may play a bit differently from classic multiplayer games. If all participants are currently logged into the game, it will play exactly the same as a classic Civilization IV multiplayer game. You are free to move as soon as it is your turn, you are free to chat to the other players, you are free to conquer the world! However, the most important difference when playing a PitBoss game is that all other participants may not always be logged in.
If you are engaged in a PitBoss game, and another player logs out, you are free to make your move if it is your turn. Afterwards, the game is on hold until that player logs back in and makes his move. You are free to study the map. You can even manage cities and change technologies. But you cannot move your units until all other players finish their turns, and your turn is again active.

If the PitBoss has been set up to do so, you are free to register for alert E-mails that you will receive when your turn is made available. This is accomplished by entering your E-mail address in the player details screen (Alt-D). Also, the PitBoss may be set up to run a turn timer. You may have a limited time (typically 24 hours or so) to make your move. Make sure you recognize when a timer is being used since not moving within this time will result in passing on your turn!

Setting up a PitBoss game:

The PitBoss game options are chosen through a simple setup wizard interface

Step 1: Choose a mod

The administrator is free to choose available Civilization IV mods. If a different mod is chosen, the PitBoss will automatically load this mod and restart.

Step 2: Enter SMTP information

The PitBoss will send out reminder emails to registered players using this information to interact with your SMTP server. The SMTP host (either an IP address or DNS name) is required. Depending on your E-mail provider, you may be required to provide authentication using Login and Password, as well as a return address. You are not required to enter any information if you do not wish to enable the PitBoss to send alert E-mails.

Step 3: Select the network type

This page will determine how to broadcast your PitBoss game. DirectIP games will not be broadcasted and will require all participants to manually specify the PitBoss IP Address. Private PitBoss games can be hosted and broadcasted on your LAN. Publicly available PitBoss games can be hosted and broadcasted on the Internet lobby. Due to the involved nature of PitBoss games, it is recommended that the DirectIP method is used.

Step 4: Log into the internet lobby (optional)

If you chose to host an Internet game, the Pitboss must log into the Internet Lobby. If you plan to also participate in the Pitboss game, the Pitboss must use a separate account from the participant.

Step 5: Select the game type

This page allows you to specify whether you'd like to start a new game using a random map, start a new scenario, or load a saved multiplayer game. Note that the PitBoss is able to load other types of multiplayer games, not just former PitBoss games! Depending on your choice, you will either be asked to provide a game name (for new games) or to choose a game to load (for saved games). For new games that are publicly available, you will be asked for a password. If provided, this password will be required by all joining participants. When loading a game, you may be prompted for a password as well.

Step 6: Choose a scenario (optional)

If you chose to host a scenario, this page presents you with all scenarios available for play.

Step 7: Staging Room (optional)

If you are hosting a new game or new scenario, you will be presented with a master setup room. This staging room is similar to the staging room in normal multiplayer games. You are given to option to change settings and options for the game and different players in the game. Additionally, participants are able to join the game at this time.
There are a few important differences with the PitBoss staging room. The Admin Password, if provided, gives the administrator access to any participating civilization, even if the player has enabled password protection. Additionally, if the Admin Password is provided, it will be required when loading a save game from the session.

There is also a new player status type, "Human". This indicates that this civilization is to be controlled by a human player but has not yet been claimed. As the administrator, you are free to launch the game before all Human slots have been claimed. However, the game turns cannot advance until all Human slots have been claimed and the participants have taken their turn. This allows administrators to launch games before all participants are ready and allows players to start playing as soon as they log in.

Also, the PitBoss turn timer is handled a bit differently from typical multiplayer games. Rather than the quick, dynamic timer of normal multiplayer games, the PitBoss turn timer does not change from turn to turn. Also, the PitBoss turn time will always be a matter of hours rather than minutes. It is up to the administrator to set the number of hours each turn is allowed.

The staging room marks the end of the setup interface wizard. Once "Finish" is clicked, the wizard will disappear and the game will launch. Once the game has finished launching, the administrator is presented with an Admin screen.

The PitBoss Admin screen:

The Admin screen provides game status information and limited administrative capabilities to the host.

The Player Panel:

Each player participating in the game is listed within the player panel. Their connectivity status is listed in the 'Ping' column. This will display the ping time of connected players, the claimed status of unconnected players (either Unclaimed or Disconnected), or will indicate if the player is an AI. Each player's score is also displayed, along with a 'Kick' button. If the civilization is claimed, the Kick button will be enabled. The administrator is free to reject a claim on a civilization by kicking the player from the game. If the player is ejected, the AI will claim their civilization.

The Message Panel:

The Message of the Day will be displayed to participants as soon as they log into the game. Click the 'Change MotD' button to change the message, and display it by enabling the check box. The administrator can also dynamically chat with participants using the Chat Dialog.
The administrator is also free to save the game, or to exit the game. If the administrator chooses to exit the game, all connected players will be returned to the Civilization IV main menu.

We at Firaxis sincerely hope you enjoy The PitBoss and the exciting new method of epic multiplayer play it provides for Civilization IV!


(check the spoiler)
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
January 05 2009 04:45 GMT
#74
How long are sessions usually? I'm usually free starting from (current time + 5 hours) to (current time + 18 hours). Ouch, that's when you're going to start. I think I can be there for the beginning, but what happens if I miss a day? For that matter, it's bound to happen that someone's going to go AWOL for a session - what then?

Also, how much experience does everyone else here have playing civ4? As for me, I've played two games on single player with the "standard" settings ("play now!") on marathon from ancient, which amounts to somewhat less than 12 hours.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-05 04:49:51
January 05 2009 04:47 GMT
#75
i really hope we get another host, because I can't see his game, no matter what i've tried
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
January 05 2009 04:49 GMT
#76
ive played probably about 150-200 hours of civ4, all singleplayer, i know a lot about the game, except I often do war poorly and ive never finished a game, i always quit when im too far ahead or if ive no chance to catch up and start a new one
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
zer0das
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States8519 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-01-05 04:53:13
January 05 2009 04:49 GMT
#77
On January 05 2009 13:45 BottleAbuser wrote:
How long are sessions usually? I'm usually free starting from (current time + 5 hours) to (current time + 18 hours). Ouch, that's when you're going to start. I think I can be there for the beginning, but what happens if I miss a day? For that matter, it's bound to happen that someone's going to go AWOL for a session - what then?

Also, how much experience does everyone else here have playing civ4? As for me, I've played two games on single player with the "standard" settings ("play now!") on marathon from ancient, which amounts to somewhat less than 12 hours.


That's the point of Pitboss. We can still play turns if everyone logs in occasionally, even if we aren't all there.

I've probably played several hundred hours of vanilla Civ4, and maybe 10 of Warlords/Beyond the Sword. I've played a few multiplayer games with a few friends, but generally they were peace lovers, and I'd just roll the comps and then declare on them and it was over pretty soon. One time I managed to beat down Rome as the Aztecs when Rome declared on me early in a multiplayer game we were playing... so hard. -_-

My advice is to play safer in multiplayer. Barbarians always seem to get archers/swordsmen/axemen way faster and sometimes it takes some real effort to not get wiped out. At least in vanilla.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
January 05 2009 04:53 GMT
#78
On January 05 2009 13:47 Zelniq wrote:
i really hope we get another host, because I can't see his game, no matter what i've tried
Yeah, I should probably included something in the OP asking for people to host...

*doing that right now*
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
January 05 2009 06:43 GMT
#79
Oh right, since it's sequential, it just keeps going as long as the new "current" player logs in and does his turn.

What happens if one guy goes AWOL for a week? Can we like vote his civ into AI control? Eh, I guess we're just hoping everyone's going to be dedicated or "retire" if he knows he can't make it for a while.

If we do get a working host up, I'll be there~
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
Falcynn
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3597 Posts
January 05 2009 06:45 GMT
#80
On January 05 2009 15:43 BottleAbuser wrote:
Oh right, since it's sequential, it just keeps going as long as the new "current" player logs in and does his turn.

What happens if one guy goes AWOL for a week? Can we like vote his civ into AI control? Eh, I guess we're just hoping everyone's going to be dedicated or "retire" if he knows he can't make it for a while.

If we do get a working host up, I'll be there~
Yeah, first off you have 12 hours to make your move or you automatically skip your turn. I guess I'll make it so that if you miss 2 turns in a row, I kick?

I could also do 3, but 2 seems good imo.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
GSL
08:00
2026 Season 1: Playoffs
SHIN vs MaruLIVE!
herO vs TBD
CranKy Ducklings SOOP68
GSL EN (SOOP)0
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Rex 36
StarCraft: Brood War
Killer 1163
scan(afreeca) 465
Mind 296
Larva 285
Hm[arnc] 241
Zeus 143
hero 81
EffOrt 78
PianO 60
JulyZerg 38
[ Show more ]
Backho 27
Sharp 24
Sacsri 19
Bale 17
Noble 14
sorry 7
Dota 2
XaKoH 585
NeuroSwarm157
Counter-Strike
zeus207
Other Games
WinterStarcraft544
monkeys_forever262
crisheroes176
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL26486
StarCraft 2
IntoTheiNu 328
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH264
• LUISG 44
• StrangeGG 33
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1311
Counter-Strike
• C_a_k_e 1983
Upcoming Events
IPSL
6h 33m
Bonyth vs Napoleon
G5 vs JDConan
BSL
9h 33m
OyAji vs JDConan
DragOn vs TBD
Replay Cast
23h 33m
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 6h
Replay Cast
1d 14h
The PondCast
2 days
Kung Fu Cup
2 days
GSL
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
GSL
4 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Spring Champion…
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
WardiTV Spring Champion…
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
Classic vs SHIN
Rogue vs Bunny
BSL
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Afreeca Starleague
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W7
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
Heroes Pulsing #1
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
WardiTV Spring 2026
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.