Your favorite RPG (PC)

On October 09 2008 05:11 .kaz wrote:
Why is there no Diablo or Diablo II when its going to be one of the most popular votes?

On October 09 2008 05:11 .kaz wrote:
Why is there no Diablo or Diablo II when its going to be one of the most popular votes?

On October 09 2008 05:14 Boblion wrote:

Because it isn't a RpG.

I voted BG1
But where are Valkyrie Profile and the other JRPG ??? ( haha )

On October 09 2008 05:19 Groslouser wrote:
Anyway, all these games are great but a bit old, does anyone got some more recent name to add (other than mass effect )?

On October 09 2008 05:19 Hitokiri wrote:


also Valkyrie P is a PS game not PC

On October 09 2008 05:19 Hitokiri wrote:
Your definition of RPG must be a bit off, also Valkyrie P is a PS game not PC
I vote for Monkey Island!

On October 09 2008 05:23 Krohm wrote:
NWN Part 1 was one of the best games I've ever played. The only thing I didn't like about it is how when you completed each "Area" you'd instantly be warped to the next one. There was no traveling around the world so to speak.

On October 09 2008 06:46 Mindcrime wrote:
kotor deserves to be on the list more than either iwd game and any bethesda game

On October 09 2008 06:21 .kaz wrote:
Why is morrowind considered an RPG if its just a hack n slash then..? Diablo 1 and 2 are both RPG's, you're trying to refine a genre for no reason .

On October 09 2008 07:00 BG1 wrote:


Well I haven't played kotor so I wasn't sure if it was as good as some of the other games..

On October 09 2008 07:07 BG1 wrote:


Morrowind is not a hack n slash rpg! It's probably the game with the most options and variety to role play your character properly... There's no comparison with Diablo.
Also Diablo is mostly known for its multiplayer aspects, as far as single player goes, not many people would mention it along with these games.

On October 09 2008 06:21 .kaz wrote:
Why is morrowind considered an RPG if its just a hack n slash then..? Diablo 1 and 2 are both RPG's, you're trying to refine a genre for no reason .

On October 09 2008 09:06 Shymon wrote:
is baldur's gate 2 still sold or do you have to search for it used or just dl it from a torrent site?


seems since everyone loves it i should at least give it a shot.

On October 09 2008 09:21 BG1 wrote:



You can buy it online on Amazon, Ebay etc. but I'm not sure if you'll find it sold in stores as it's pretty old. It doesn't have any cd keys or anything so yea you could go with torrents...
I bought mine off ebay for 10$.

* BG1Tutu is a project which automatically converts the resources in a Baldur's Gate, or Baldur's Gate + TotSC install to the BGII engine, allowing for Baldur's Gate to take advantage of higher resolutions, as well as various other improvements in the BGII engine.[5] A simpler installation method, EasyTutu, is also available. Most mods for Baldur's Gate are produced for Tutu distribution, primarily BG1 NPC Project.

On October 09 2008 09:45 Myrmidon wrote:
Which do people think had the best battles? In my limited experience I'd say BG2 by a fair margin, but I'm hoping that there's games out there I haven't played that reach or surpass it.

On October 09 2008 09:45 Myrmidon wrote:
Which do people think had the best battles? In my limited experience I'd say BG2 by a fair margin, but I'm hoping that there's games out there I haven't played that reach or surpass it.

On October 09 2008 09:50 Boblion wrote:

Icewind Dale and BG2 have probably the best battles. ( i don't really know about Neverwinter Nights and Morrowind / Oblivion are solo ).
If you get all the BG2 mods it has definitly the best battles.

On October 09 2008 10:03 dinmsab wrote:
no grandia 2?

On October 09 2008 10:12 .kaz wrote:
I'm not trying to derail this thread, but I have to keep pressing my point. Just because morrowind has more choices because it was made more recently and is a differen't style of game, and follows the elder scrolls agenda of being a mass world with thousands of quests, does not mean it isn't a hack and slash. You constantly click (hack n slash) monsters in the game, so by your definition it would be a hack n slash. I don't understand how you can say the Diablo series is not an RPG when it is effectively a top down morrowind that is less advanced, and a differen't style.

If any of the elder scrolls games would have had an online option, they would be known for that too. Just because Diablo is known for its online play doesn't make it a non RPG, it turns it into an MMORPG of some sorts, with limited characters per game. Why would the Diablo series have won best RPG of the year, etc, if it wasn't considered an RPG?

Lastely, how can you include the Baldurs Gate series or Neverwinter Nights when they are identical in gameplay to Diablo and Diablo 2, with the exception that the combat is turn based / stregically played out instead of real time (hack n slash). Like someone said on the last page, hack n slash is a description, or mini genre, similar to music, like metal, nu metal, black metal, etc.

The point of this rant is that I think the Diablo series diserves a spot on a list of best / favorite PC RPGS, whether its best known for its gameplay properties of hack n slash, or online play.

On October 09 2008 11:03 .kaz wrote:
So the fact that you are, wait for it, playing the role of a character in the diablo world doesn't count!? How is fallout an RPG? How is Baldurs Gate an RPG? How is any RPG an RPG, or how is not every single game an RPG if all that is required is that you role play, or play the role of someone in a game, when you do that in every single game.

I could have sworn I was Incontrol, the double swing barbarian who was outcast as a child and is forced to eat to cope with my short comings .

On October 09 2008 11:36 .kaz wrote:
Again Mindcrime, the games listed in the discussion only have the creation of narratives because they are more advanced and have more gameplay in them. Also, take for example, Morrowind, your race, personality, guilds, and actions determine the "narratives". This is simply an advanced version of picking a character in diablo and having the dialogue and character speech be differen't, or adding an extra stat to change how characters react with you.

On October 09 2008 11:36 .kaz wrote:
BG1, I understand your reasoning, but some of the other games you listed are also click move, click kill games. Most of the games you listed were made after the diablo series, and have had more time to develop, and more dedication and requirements, giving them the more in depth storylines, role playing, and more dialogue and character interaction. I think that you should have defined what you were making a poll of beyond RPG, because by the title WoW should have been included, but you defined your games in the poll only. As an example, take Final Fantasy 1 or Zelda for the Nintendo. The games are as basic as you get, yet people wouldn't disclude it from a console RPG discussion simply because they were undeveloped.

I wouldn't think of Counter Strike or the Battlefield series the same as Half Life and Bioshock games either, because the games were designed to be played online only, with very very limited single player or non at all, making them MMO's only. The COD 4 story line is very in depth and very well done, and I would include that with the other FPS games you listed because of that. There are games that are designed for single player only, and games that are designed for multiplayer only. And then there are those with in depth story lines and all, that also have multiplayer capibilities, like Diablo, Half Life, and Crysis. A games success in either region shouldn't determine whether its included in a broad topic like this because the multiplayer sucks so its not popular for it, or the single player isn't fun and is only played online, hence why I am arguing my point that the Diablo series should be included in your discussion, no matter how the gameplay is differen't, because it wasn't defined in the OP what you were looking for.

Again Mindcrime, the games listed in the discussion only have the creation of narratives because they are more advanced and have more gameplay in them. Also, take for example, Morrowind, your race, personality, guilds, and actions determine the "narratives". This is simply an advanced version of picking a character in diablo and having the dialogue and character speech be differen't, or adding an extra stat to change how characters react with you.

Im going to stop responding, because we obviously have very differen't opinions on what is and what isn't an RPG, and what makes diablo not worth being in a poll for best PC rpgs, and what does. We could go on for hours about the small details and argue, but it would be pointless.

On October 09 2008 11:58 liger13 wrote:
KOTOR... need i say more?

On October 09 2008 15:14 TreK wrote:
its 2 hard 2 chose between fallout 2 and baldurs gate 2 : (

On October 09 2008 10:47 .kaz wrote:
Boblions origonal quote of me said that the Diablo series was not an RPG. I said that other than the differen't combat systems they are for all intents and purposes the same type of game, and I origonally asked how you could have a Favorite / Top rpg poll without including the most widely played / most popular game of its time, and for a long time to come, not including MMO only RPGS such as everquest, WoW, etc. There are only a few quests in diablo that tells you to kill something, it just so happens that there are enemies protecting the quest area and such. It is possible to get through the entire game with only killing the bosses and semi bosses that open up the way to bosses. If you don't know what quests aren't about killing things, look the quest list up or play it once. How is GTA more of an RPG than Diablo? You seem to not read my post when I say that the advanced games such as the recent GTA's don't nullify the fact that diablo is an RPG. Go play GTA 1 and tell me its more of an RPG than Diablo.

To answer your re-edited edit, list 1 rpg that has quests that don't require you to go kill something, collect an item, or run somewhere and talk to someone.

On October 09 2008 10:09 Mindcrime wrote:
Getting all of the BG2 mods is not advisable. There's over 461 of them and they're not all compatible.

On October 09 2008 14:45 JohnColtrane wrote:
i voted for morrowind, but i also really enjoyed fallout 2, although being able to get the advanced power armor from navarro at the very start of the game really made it way too easy. unless you were fighting deathclaws or guys with big guns/energy weapons, youd take 0 damage unless it was a lucky/critical hit. ploughing through noobs with shotguns and rifles and not taking a scratch was fun but eventually it wore off

On October 09 2008 15:06 FuDDx wrote:
Anyone play the Witcher?
Just bought it loading it right now hope it was worth the money.

On October 09 2008 15:54 Pangolin wrote:


That is your own fault for purposely breaking the order of the game and getting end game armor at the beginning. You cannot blame the game for that.

On October 09 2008 21:50 Ki_Do wrote:
warcraft3

On October 09 2008 17:33 Ghardo wrote:
sounds great. so what's better about MOTB? haven't played neither of the games but i'm a story fanatic and if MOTB's story should be better i'd rather pick that.

On October 09 2008 09:50 Shauni wrote:


SILVER! LOL

On October 09 2008 22:36 Spinfusor wrote:
a) Arcanum isn't on the list.
b) You replayed Oblivion voluntarily??!

On October 09 2008 19:45 JohnColtrane wrote:


no, the opportunity to gain end armor without risk and without long investment should not be feasible in the game, but it is (talking to chris the dumbass gas station attendant is not hard work or risky) and it is not a bug or a glitch or a 'sneaky' way either, you actually get a quest from matt the bos dude in san francisco to steal the plans and during that you recieve the armor at the armory. so its not breaking the order of the game at all because theres a quest at the start of the game to do it

On October 09 2008 17:33 Ghardo wrote:
sounds great. so what's better about MOTB? haven't played neither of the games but i'm a story fanatic and if MOTB's story should be better i'd rather pick that.

On October 09 2008 23:21 Groslouser wrote:
Well, if one play this game for the first time, if he head randomly to navaro he'll encounter a patrol => end of the trip and after 20 horrible deaths he'll go somewhere else. Only a player who knows that he can sneak in to get it will do it. Same for the brotherhood's armor. Does that make the game more easy?
i don't think so: it doesn't affect a first sime player and the other should be smart enough to avoid it
oh wait.... i did fallout 2 with a perfect char... nvm...
This could be a good blog topic: "should using hack/cheats/whatever in a game to see everything be considered as cheating or not?" (it a bit long though... )

On October 09 2008 23:42 JohnColtrane wrote:


you will barely ever encounter an enclave patrol that early on (before frank and his buddies rape the vault) and if you do you can just reload. all other things you can just run from if you have decent sequence

getting to navarro is not hard in that respect, neither is 'sneaking in'. even if you didnt go to matt for the quest, its all in the dialogue with chris, tell him your the new recruit and walk up into the bass with the password, the sergeant even tells you to get to the armory for your advanced power armor. also, even if you dont convince chris, if you say the wrong dialogue he will try to report you after he tells you the location of the hidden entrance anyway.

yeah it makes the game easier, of course it does, enclave power armor makes you invulnerable to everything outside of the enclave and all it takes (pretty much) is a little bit of luck or leveling up in the wastes to get the armor, not to mention all the weapons and shit

my point is it shouldnt even be available, even if you are 'metagaming' or whatever, other quests have restrictions (the sherrif in redding's quest has a level requirement i believe), why not put some sort of restriction upon that?

On October 10 2008 06:52 Pangolin wrote:


If I encountered an Enclave patrol and got my ass handed to me, my response would be to reload and NOT return to the place that I just got owned at. I would not continue walking in the random direction away from where I was told to go (Klamath) for no reason whatsoever. It may not be that difficult to do if you know what you are doing, but if you are just starting a game without knowing about it there are many obstacles that stop you from getting there. I stand by saying that it is your fault for getting it early in the game and ruining your fun. Perhaps it should have a level requirement but I don't really see it as necessary because first time players wont be going there anyway.

I can think of a few reasons why Redding would have a level cap and Navarro wouldn't. IIRC Redding was pretty close to Klamath/The Den and the encounters around it were not any more difficult than normal (i.e. no enclave/fire geckos) so it is much more conceivable for a person to go there at low levels on accident. If you do the Sheriff's quests at a low level you are likely to get massacred by that dude with the H&K G11. Also, the Redding quest is a side quest whereas I believe Navarro is essential to completing the game. It that the developers didn't want to restrict the players options for game completion by requiring you to be a certain level to beat the game. Anyway, those are just a couple theories, it could just be that the developers messed up or didn't have time, it was a very buggy and frankly incomplete game when it was released. This doesn't change the fact that you shouldn't even find San Francisco or Navarro that early in the game.

On October 10 2008 11:11 JohnColtrane wrote:


even though they are called random encounters for a reason? =/ the only enclave you encounter before reading was the one where you see frank horrigan and his buddies blast those farmers, then walk away, they dont attack you. and thats that

think of things this way: when you get into the den with the intention of completing the main quest i guess its called, you go to metzger and find vic. you can either a)pay 1500 or whatever it is for him (expensive especially at the start of the game when you have no money and no gear) or b)you slay metzger and his men (also a hard task since they all carry guns and theres like 10-12 of them altogether). so what did i do? i went around in the wastes trying to level up so i could beat them down, or at least work up some cash from killing hubologists. and i thought, instead of just browsing one square looking for enemies, i may as well explore everything and look for vault 13 in the meantime, right? since i wasnt metagaming, i had no knowledge that vault 13 wasnt accesible until you complete a certain quest, so i jumped around the map, and i entered the towns i found to do easy quests / steal / loot / kill etc. why shouldnt i find san francisco that early in the game then?

On October 10 2008 11:46 Pangolin wrote:


Firstly, $1000 dollars is pretty easily obtained by simply doing quests in the Den or Klamath. Secondly, why would you walk all the way to San Francisco instead of going to one of the much closer cities like Redding? Thirdly, I do not believe that you could walk all the way to San Francisco, up to Navarro, and back to San Francisco without running into Enclave patrols, fire geckos, aliens, or some other encounter that is much harder than killing Metzger and his crew. At some point you should have realized that you were in a place that you are not meant to be until you are at a much higher level. If you weren't metagaming then you got extremely lucky (or unlucky I suppose) to stumble upon and survive the quest. And even afterwards you always had the choice to just not wear the armor. It is your fault for making the game easy, not the developers. Alright, that's it, I'm done arguing.

How has nobody mentioned the Ultima series?

On October 10 2008 13:13 JohnColtrane wrote:
everyone is different

but if morrowind had placed wraithguard and the tools in the middle on balmora city, along with ebony mail it would detract from my game again

On October 10 2008 06:19 0xDEADBEEF wrote:
I feel the Elder Scrolls series is going downhill though, Oblivion was rather disappointing (though some mods, again, make it much better) and TES 5 is coming only 2 or 3 years after Oblivion... and Bethesda is also working on Fallout 3... I'm not sure if that's a good sign. And of course they're rather console-centric these days.

On October 09 2008 23:27 WiljushkA wrote:motb's story is the one that black isle/obsidian keep re-telling over and over, which doesnt mean its bad, just familiar expect strong pst and kotor2 vibes from it

of course i could choose not to wear the armor, but just having it available without cheating detracts from the game and makes it seem like a noob route for people that dont want to work hard at getting cash or just steamrolling towns

On October 10 2008 21:17 JohnColtrane wrote:
i got sick of all the bugs and the plotline was just shit, i think i ended up getting killed by the mantella thing in the end. fucking lame. morrowind had nicer things to look at, more stuff like artifacts, better quests, it was 3rd, etc. daggerfall was big but it was just a mass of nothing

On October 10 2008 21:17 JohnColtrane wrote:the map isnt big, you get something like 13 years of play time before the game ends, so the map is really small for the time you get to play it. i wandered all over every box so i found all possible locations apart from the hidden questy ones

On October 10 2008 12:38 JohnColtrane wrote:


alot of these quests are bad for karma and i already needed alot of money for sulik and other things too. why would i walk all the way to san fran? because i had already been to redding and i was searching for the vault. Lol, i never saw an enclave patrol before the deathclaws in the vault got exterminated, if i run into aliens or deathclaws i simply run, however if i run into the hubbos vsing the caravaners, i wait and loot whoever dies, and if i can i kill the other team and loot them. also, lol at 'surviving' the quest. do you know how absurdly easy it is to get the second best armor in the game? it requires no fighting, not thinking, no puzzle solving, nothing pretty much. thats why it shouldnt be in the game. why should it be, if it was for higher level players it should have been scaled for higher level players ie the quest should be harder, but its absurdly easy for a low level character to obtain.

of course i could choose not to wear the armor, but just having it available without cheating detracts from the game and makes it seem like a noob route for people that dont want to work hard at getting cash or just steamrolling towns

On October 10 2008 20:51 JohnColtrane wrote:
yeah but daggerfall was boring as fuck, its questline could be as complex as anything and morrowind still would have raped it blind

oblivion isnt such a bad game, the combat system is much better than morrowinds, if you are a higher leveling you can just swing swing swing and the other dude dies, but in oblivion at least theres more strategy like blocking and power attacks and the like

On October 10 2008 22:49 KlaCkoN wrote:
Btw my vote goes to BG2 or fallout 1 .. I think.

On October 11 2008 11:32 tube wrote:
if only i had ever played a single one of these games listed in the poll, mayhaps

On October 11 2008 13:27 Motiva wrote:
BG2 easy. Kotor1 would definitely be in contention were it on there. For me it's

1) BG2
2) Kotor
3) Starcraft (It counts right?)

On October 13 2008 20:24 TopGear wrote:
BG2 is still such a fun game to play, but because i have played it so many times, I always end up cheating at the beggining (because its so boring) and then it gets too easy because ive cheated.. i need more patience, its such a great game.