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On August 19 2008 08:21 Wysp wrote:
I think once they start facing the better russian teams, such as the new Ks.Int they're gonna get crushed, though (just like the last time they started dominating with this strat.) vigoss and ars-art on the same team is just too much.
spectre is the real reason teams are winning with this strat, though. Zues, sand king, furion and and QoP have an easy time controlling the map in the farm centred .52 play style, feeding spec kills, and we all know how stupid a 30 minute radiance diffusal is on spec. Infact, I don't think I've seen a PDL game inwhich the team with spectre has lost in a 2 week or more, because everyone is just farming. With any items spectre's ult does 500-600 damage to every hero during the engagements, and when you get massive AoE around it, such as QoP, you mash. Against a team with vigoss and ars-art, though, they'll gank the pants off these soft heroes and out farm them, even when dying themselves. They always win because they always get kills, and even with ganks and failed ganks they farm better than any players in the world.
Whenever the opposing team picks spectre with an excellent support like sp or wl I rarely try to go all gank on them since we're not really high level and I rarely play with teammates I know very well. Unless I'm able to get an excellent ganker that is usually banned like puck/bm/qop then I'd think about it. More often I'd try to play farm vs farm and pick heroes like brood/dk. get a healer, avoid heroes with low health and try to outplay them late game. Since although spectre is very powerful with items he still needs another hero or two to amplify the damage or support him, etc.
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I s'pose what I am saying is that if the team with spectre exerts control during the early stages on the game, absolutely no team can handle a decent 35 minute spectre farm. Teams have been content to let this happen and spectre has been shreading .52-.54 like he used to before the dispersion nerf. It takes absolutely massive play, and even with that a few lucky dispersions can ruin it.
http://forums.dota-allstars.com/index.php?showtopic=237169 (second game) it takes a disgustingly good effort from Loda as QoP to stop spec in this game, and if my memory is correct the only reason they even get a chance to win is because of a bad decision by the spectre while razing the bottom part of SK's base, during the mid game when his good farm made the hero beastlike.
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That is definitely true. In Chinese wcg the winning team Ehome often uses spectre as late game carry. It's just very hard to prevent spectre from farming especially if he's laning with a warlock or someone, if he's going straight radiance then only 50cs or so is needed which is very easily obtained by someone who has decent lasthitting skills. I remember I've seen a replay where travka gets a 14min radiance with sp laning with him I think. And if spectre's team wards well, congregates fast enough and have good aoe heroes to get by early game they've pretty much won the game. Spectre can also do decent damage to fast or mid game pushing teams. Just a very imbalanced hero overall. In China the three big late gamers are TB, Spec and FV however I haven't seen people use FV in so long.
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need closer to 100 cs... at least 70 and no spending money on anything else. 50cs is 2500 gold on average you babo, very doable by 10 minutes, even by 8, and you've never seen a 10 min radi have you
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Theres also money from the game and like side stuff like towers etc, maybe like 60 but definitely less than 70 imo. And I guess I meant relic and not radi 
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problem with Asian teams is the vast majority of them blow ass at laning and decision making, with sub par carrying abilities.
The other problem is that spec isn't as solid of a carry anymore, Asian teams caught the short end of the stick here learning from the euro teams, spec is so much more situational now then before, the 3 big STR carries CK-SK-DK are more durable and farm about the same than the AGI carries and lane better than them, no reason to run Spec who's only true advantage is mid game global assuming their lane didn't go to complete shit.
The problem with running those AGI carries (TB to a lesser extent) is that your lanes in general will be defensive, and running those STR carries your lane will be more offensive. With that in mind, you NEED to lane your heroes properly in order for you to accomplish two goals, one for your carry to remain relatively unscathed and two to keep their lanes down. The "problem" with running AGI carries, your lane is defensive (most of the time) thus even though you might accomplish goal number one, you run the risk of failing goal number two. Thus, AGI carries (again most of the time) have to lane very intelligently or the game will still be out of reach for their team.
The recent replays show a lot of top European teams coming into the lanes with wards to either mess up junglers or pullers as well as rune control early with quicker bottles. This is very cumbersome to defensive lanes as it really adds more difficulty to laning, especially if they run 2 mid.
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Ah ok. I've only been exposed to Chinese Dota which learns mostly from itself and other Asian teams. Tb/Meepo are common bans in 6.51 as well as BB in 6.48. I haven't thought about the more aggressive lane part, which is very true. I never have an agi carry lane with anyone other than warlock or shadow priest. I feel like a lane with any carry paired with warlock is a.. counter aggressive lane I should say, it makes double stun lanes pay if they are over aggressive. With str carries I will pair them with half babysitters like TS/Lich, etc.
About the wards thing, I've been doing it in every scrim I've every played in. If we have a jungler + soloer in side lane we get sentries to counter ward. If we have an aggressive lane combo we get wards to seal neutrals from being pulled and check the runes on that side of the map. It is possible to seal three neutral spots with one ward on the sentinel side.
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What is the best forum for dota strategy discussion
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I don't know of a forum.
The two best outlets I know of are irc and vent. Tbh when I started out I wish there was some kind of decent strategy forum but I learned everything from replays+talking to other good teams [ mainly their leaders/pickers ] on irc or vent. I learned how to think about pick/bans from Lopi former Feeding Frenzy leader who's still on the EMG roster I think. But I didn't get to talk to him once he got into EMG, it was because feeding frenzy usually played my team in CAL or lower leagues and I rang for them sometimes. After games I'd ask him what he thought we could have picked/done better.
Your best bet is just to keep doing [which I think you are] you're already doing. Play with better players and ask them why they did a pick/ban/strat. Most people are happy to answer after a game ends even if they are on the other team.
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yea I thought that after browsing through the dota-allstars strategy section.
I have a question about laning. For combos such as potm/leoric, where leoric isn't the main carry on the team, how should both of them lasthit? Is potm supposed to attack heroes and only get some creeps while snk gets every creep? What about for combos such as TS/Leoric? TS is the support hero but is he supposed to just not lasthit or barely lasthit at all but only use lightning, deny and attack heroes? I don't know the English phrase but what do you call being aggressive in a lane by forcing enemy heroes back and chipping away at their health? It's called "pressuring" in Chinese.
For babysitter/carry lanes like warlock/dk, if warlock doesn't lasthit at all it will be very hard for him to get any items after buying wards and turning crow. Is a babysitter supposed to solo for some time after the mid solo leaves or something?
Lastly, during early game there are usually 4-6 wards piled up. Should you have 4 wards on the map at the point of the game until wards start running out or save some for when the opponents counter wards? Should the support always buy up all the wards early game even before getting any items?
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its beneficial to buy at least 1 ward pack as soon as you can as support (it starts the 6 minute timer for wards), no need for more than 1 asap, but you should always after you have steady income keep it at 1 set of wards or zero, buy more when it hits 2 (or if you need them).
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On August 20 2008 08:50 zulu_nation8 wrote:
yea I thought that after browsing through the dota-allstars strategy section.
I have a question about laning. For combos such as potm/leoric, where leoric isn't the main carry on the team, how should both of them lasthit? Is potm supposed to attack heroes and only get some creeps while snk gets every creep? What about for combos such as TS/Leoric? TS is the support hero but is he supposed to just not lasthit or barely lasthit at all but only use lightning, deny and attack heroes? I don't know the English phrase but what do you call being aggressive in a lane by forcing enemy heroes back and chipping away at their health? It's called "pressuring" in Chinese.
For babysitter/carry lanes like warlock/dk, if warlock doesn't lasthit at all it will be very hard for him to get any items after buying wards and turning crow. Is a babysitter supposed to solo for some time after the mid solo leaves or something?
Lastly, during early game there are usually 4-6 wards piled up. Should you have 4 wards on the map at the point of the game until wards start running out or save some for when the opponents counter wards? Should the support always buy up all the wards early game even before getting any items?
PotM leo and TS leo are very strong lanes. And I agree with playing an aggresive lane. Pot shots should be taken on heroes as much as possible and then if they try to score creeps while missing a chunk of hp you can chain stuns and snag kills. Kinda similar to the old sven/lina lane. TS is harder to last hit with but some players have been able to dominate creep scores (goblak destroying Loda and LoH's shadow fiend's 1v1 centre lane comes to mind.) Lesh can do this on a side lane too, so you do have a chance against a lane with more fire power (such as one with NA, puck or zeus.)
And as for babysitters, the hero can only not take creeps if your team can afford to have that hero under farmed. Warlock, for example, can be very dominate after a solo farm mid game with necrom and many other number of quickly farmed items, but his true value comes in the infernal. It shreads if you don't counter it, and if it forces a hero to get diff that usually wouldn't it nullifies your poor farm by perhaps starving a NA or pugna of otherwise more useful items (such as a sheepstick to handle your carry.) Warlock without an infernal thrashing around just can't carry, so its often better to let other heroes get the gold he'd normal hog trying to do a gay deso/refresher carry. Venomancer can very often get away with having no items because they really don't do a lot for him. His ult is all he needs to affect a team engage, and his slow is all he needs for ganking. Veno can be stronger with items, but I'd rather see an extra 2000 gold to a carry than a crys or lothars on veno. An excellent performance by a babysitter can make a huge difference, if the babysitter can snag up creeps every chance he gets to make a mek, necrom or any other items easy to build items. This is infact the reason I believe the Russians have been so successful, as they have no issues with taking small risks to gobble up any extra creeps. They always get items on babysitters without taking anything away from carries. The russians never play veno because you get very poor value from gold you pour into him, they want heroes that can benefit from a small farm. Sometimes the veno babysitter gambit works, but goddamn it sucks when you got a 2-12 veno.
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On August 20 2008 08:50 zulu_nation8 wrote:
yea I thought that after browsing through the dota-allstars strategy section.
I have a question about laning. For combos such as potm/leoric, where leoric isn't the main carry on the team, how should both of them lasthit? Is potm supposed to attack heroes and only get some creeps while snk gets every creep? What about for combos such as TS/Leoric? TS is the support hero but is he supposed to just not lasthit or barely lasthit at all but only use lightning, deny and attack heroes? I don't know the English phrase but what do you call being aggressive in a lane by forcing enemy heroes back and chipping away at their health? It's called "pressuring" in Chinese.
For babysitter/carry lanes like warlock/dk, if warlock doesn't lasthit at all it will be very hard for him to get any items after buying wards and turning crow. Is a babysitter supposed to solo for some time after the mid solo leaves or something?
Lastly, during early game there are usually 4-6 wards piled up. Should you have 4 wards on the map at the point of the game until wards start running out or save some for when the opponents counter wards? Should the support always buy up all the wards early game even before getting any items?
last hitting in the lane is prioritized for the carry, but in your examples, Leoric and PotM have total freedom but both need to focus on nailing enemy heroes. Leoric has a "quicker" response time to punish opposing heroes for laning mistakes. For Leoric and TS, both freedom as well with TS prioritizing hero harass over CS, but quite honestly it depends both on your team and your match ups, but smart lightning harass will yield a respectable cs and his animation isn't hard (think Zeus with level 1 arc lightning but easier).
Pressuring only really works against weak teams, when players don't know how to deal with it, exceptions are solos versus aggressive lanes. Top players will almost never ever fall that far behind in CS regardless of lanes (other than the exception), even defensive lanes will hold their own.
Warlock if babysitting needs to let their carry farm as much as possible while focusing on denying, their role is to make the lane as favorable for them as possible, so no they aren't focused on cs as much, picking off whatever the carry can't reach. And you aren't expected to get items, because your role as Warlock as a babysit usually translates to ward buying and inferno dropping, just like a Sand King after his Blink Dagger, your next set of items isn't going to help you or your team too much compared to say semi-carries and carries.
And for wards, this is very deceptive from replays as top teams know each other relatively well so they have a general idea what to expect and how the game will play out, recent replays show that generally teams like SK don't really ward that much till the other team pushes them to. Case in point is SK versus Mouz (I think) in a not so recent match, JollyJoker was doing some comments as a spectator, and the minute he said SK will lose the game (because they will lose the lanes) if they don't gank, SK ganked the Mouz solo with PotM. Likewise MYM knows what to expect from VP during the 48b days and the wards were more defensive than offensive against VP than against others. Basically, the early wards can be defensive (on the hills rather than on the runes) or offensive on the runes for your bottle users to gank. Another thing you should notice with wards, be prepared to be ganked and counter gank whenever wards are being setup especially in tight games, you see top teams always ganking during warding and counter warding attempts by the other team; its one of the reasons that crow warding is so important (other than the CS lost by someone running out there)
and the examples of TS dominating their respective solos comes with a LOT of help from their teammates dominating the runes and coming in at the proper times; both Loda and LoH still got really solid farm even with that kind of harass/ganking.
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No, actually. goblak just dominated them. he could chain his spells with out an initiating stun, and also harrassed like a motherfucker. I dare say 99% of people can't play that well with TS solo, but it is possible. This was back with a stronger bottle, though.
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Thanks for responses. Goblak's TS is the best solo TS I've seen from replays. Him and Dendi are my favorite players now that Travka is gone. I loved how in MYM 10 they'd have him solo TS whenever the other team had a solo SF. Goblak usually got the better of SF everytime.
Another question about picking. I play all my scrims on 6.51 since Chinese people are slow with the times. I usually ask the other team whether they want to ban 3 or 4, most of the time the answer is 3. From the top of my head. BM, Zeus, Puck, NA, WL, QOP are the most common bans, followed by ES, Meepo, TB, Leoric, and sometimes Spectre. Whenever I have the chance to grab a combo like Zeus/WL, or heroes who are usually banned with my first picks I almost always do it, more for the reason that the other team doesn't get them than my own liking for those heroes. However the problem is the lineups are always determined by those picks and are a lot of times very boring. However when I watch replays of the top teams even in 6.48, there have being numerous times when heroes like BM or WL end up being second picks and sometimes not even selected at all. I assume that's because the teams already have a set strategy prepared. But for me who scrim vs unknown teams 90% of the time, should I just do what I always do unless I have a very specific strategy prepared? If so then to give an example of my problem;
Say I get WL, the best alternative by far is to have him babysit a really good carry right? If I get bm/na/qop/puck along with someone like zeus, I have no choice but to get more aoe and someone like sven for an aggressive gank heavy, lane dominating lineup to mid game push right? Or rather, those would be the better alternatives than if I pick a full carry like TB who has to farm for 30min. So to clarify my questions,
Can and how should Zeus, BM, NA be used in a none gank heavy lineup?
Can and how should WL be used in a lineup without a full carry?
Should potm be used in a farm heavy lineup as a support, or at all?
That is excluding exceptions like stopping fast push with warlock, etc. When I play aggressive gank I almost always get a Sven, TH, ES, Lich or TS if Lich is not available to complement the main aoe/gankers. Btw I'm gonna start using CK now just to change the pace a little.
If I'm facing an aggressive ganking lineup I try to get a NEC which helps massively and a strength carry for late game. Several posts back I described a scrim where I picked Leoric as carry and NEC/LOA/Lich as support with only one stun which is Leoric, no initiators vs a lineup that had TH, Sand King, ES and still won because everyone died in three hits to Leoric late game.
Lately I've also been experimenting with turtle lineup seen so often in 6.52. I'd get a brood, lich/dk, visage, etc. And ward our side of the map until they have items then rape. These lineups are more conservative since we are winning usually if we are not at a big disadvantage early game and the carries are farming successfully, however when facing offline teams who are good we do have problems with protecting vs gank.
One last question sorry, say you have a solo mid, then potm, leoric, es, lich. How should you divide up the side lanes usually? I know it depends on opponents also. potm/leoric have double stun and should be more aggressive than lich/leoric but if lich is paired with Leoric, Leoric will be able to farm more. I usually go with lich/leoric, es/potm since lich/es, potm/es are the same in aggressiveness but Leoric will be able to farm better? Now I'm thinking it doesn't really matter at all?
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On August 20 2008 08:50 zulu_nation8 wrote:
yea I thought that after browsing through the dota-allstars strategy section.
I have a question about laning. For combos such as potm/leoric, where leoric isn't the main carry on the team, how should both of them lasthit? Is potm supposed to attack heroes and only get some creeps while snk gets every creep? What about for combos such as TS/Leoric? TS is the support hero but is he supposed to just not lasthit or barely lasthit at all but only use lightning, deny and attack heroes? I don't know the English phrase but what do you call being aggressive in a lane by forcing enemy heroes back and chipping away at their health? It's called "pressuring" in Chinese.
For babysitter/carry lanes like warlock/dk, if warlock doesn't lasthit at all it will be very hard for him to get any items after buying wards and turning crow. Is a babysitter supposed to solo for some time after the mid solo leaves or something?
Lastly, during early game there are usually 4-6 wards piled up. Should you have 4 wards on the map at the point of the game until wards start running out or save some for when the opponents counter wards? Should the support always buy up all the wards early game even before getting any items?
Wysp and my teammate covered this pretty thoroughly but in case you were asking for my perspective, in brief:
If you have PotM/Leoric in the lane and Leoric isn't the main carry on the team I would still give last hit priority slightly to leoric. Imo its just easier to hit with melee heroes if you take out all other factors. Also PotM is a lot more mobile and her ganks will hit a lot harder, more impact if you will, so she should probably be helping the other closest lane after some farm. I'm fairly sure in saying that I don't think any teams [ even the top euros and russians ] actually discuss how they will split up the farm in a lane if its something like PotM/Leoric
However, in your next scenario Lesh/Skel king I would say that I like to follow these guidelines:
Lesh's lightning is used to last hit whenever your lane needs to be pushed. I would place lesh/skel king in a lane where you can pull neuts to your lane so you can better control the length of your lane. Lesh's harass [ I think this is the word you were looking for ] is incredible and his last hit is really easy imo compared to other range heroes. In fact I usually yell ' nightingale ' five thousand times during a game whenever I play lesh lol ask Judicator. This isn't to say however that Lesh should get no regular last hits. If skel is unable to get as many as he needs to, lesh should pick up the slack after skel lets him know. Sometimes if you're both not dying its good to communicate to each other to say one is focusing *more* on denying or lasthitting.
Babysitters: If you were to compare the last 2 paragraphs I typed with this one I'd say this is the one where your babysitter should be on complete-deny-only mode. However, this is only if you're confident in your lane partner who is probably a hero like spec. If you're the babysitter you should gauge how your partner is doing. If he's fucking up, pick up the slack. Otherwise your main priorities are keeping him healed and in good position to farm the last hits.
Only time you should buy wards right off the bat is when you know the other team is jungling, or running a roaming lineup. For jungling just ward the neut spots, I'm sure you know this.
Otherwise I would like to think you only need 2, maybe 3 wards down for the entire map early game.
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On August 20 2008 10:53 Wysp wrote:
No, actually. goblak just dominated them. he could chain his spells with out an initiating stun, and also harrassed like a motherfucker. I dare say 99% of people can't play that well with TS solo, but it is possible. This was back with a stronger bottle, though.
Actually yes, if you are thinking about the same games I am, loda's sf died first in the lane, then caught up within a minute then died again to a gank (pretty sure rune-assisted). It was the second death is what set loda back farther than he would have liked but cs wise nobody was dominated, despite two deaths loda still caught up to lesh, if anything lesh did a great job of containing loda's SF. The reason I remember this so vividly is because I remember thinking to myself, damn Loda got destroyed in the lane, then checked the stats and his items and was very surprised at what he had even with two deaths.
The LoH game was art rune control. LoH got locked in the lane and didn't get help from his team, the rest played out like it should have played out.
I think what Goblak did both times was really harass SF early (SF's primary laning weakness) to make the 2nd and 3rd levels for SF really hard; you can see this when Maelk plays SF against the offensive lanes (as he almost always calls for a lane switch). I am sure ack1027 realizes this too when we played against the Brazilian team GDD way back in HTGN when he solo-ed SF against a really aggressive Viper.
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Btw posting on TLnet with Judicator is gay because I'm in vent with him for hours every day and I just call him by his real name. Shit is awkward. We never actually mention the posts we make about dota on TL even if we respond to each others post or refer to each other lmao.
What sf? We dominated those kids.
And yes I do have most of our old match screenshots.
Edit: irapeviper1v1witSF wthusmoking
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Btw for shits and giggles
Judicator signed us up for a dota tourney while I was in korea cuz we thought we might make the team again and play once I got back. However we did not and he just left it running.
http://tinyurl.com/6gagnf
We made it to the semi-finals without playing a single match and we're up against a friend's team. Remember how I said I gave all our JLIG spots to a friend when we quit? Well one of the guys on that new team got on Mug N Mouse roflllll.
what a awesomely run tourney.
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just starting to catch up on discussion.
I'm fairly sure in saying that I don't think any teams [ even the top euros and russians ] actually discuss how they will split up the farm in a lane if its something like PotM/Leoric
they certainly do. WG were the best example of this when they had travka. They would pump travka's pig/leo/centaur and they often would pump dendi's NA with all kills on a lane.
They are amazing lane controllers, though. Although, I agree with you at a lower level of play its almost always benefitial to do a maximum team farm. Other than just letting the best laner do his best lasthitting, timing your collective attacks and denies on the last 2 hits of hp a creep has can shut this down. If done with excellent sychronation it will really test the other teams ability to do likewise (which is very often lacking) and really punish them if they are attempting to pump a carry. WG would pump a dendi NA using the same method, except they timed it so that dendi hit slightly after his 'babysitter.' I don't even dare try this myself and when I see people trying it I'll usually be able to sneak in hits inbetween them.
Actually yes, if you are thinking about the same games I am, loda's sf died first in the lane, then caught up within a minute then died again to a gank (pretty sure rune-assisted). It was the second death is what set loda back farther than he would have liked but cs wise nobody was dominated, despite two deaths loda still caught up to lesh, if anything lesh did a great job of containing loda's SF. The reason I remember this so vividly is because I remember thinking to myself, damn Loda got destroyed in the lane, then checked the stats and his items and was very surprised at what he had even with two deaths.
Also, like zulu_nation said it wasn't only great performances against Loda and LoH (because indeed slowing them down is sometimes all you can do) it was complete rape against the weaker proteams. They let the other team pick shadow fiend and just snagged up other heroes because of goblak's disgusting skill.
I also want to put forth an opinion on a certain type of hero, the type of hero I see as currently having the largest impact on dota. I'll start with lich and ES as I think they are the best example of the quality I'm trying to express.
The lich has great laning abilities, especially as a babysitter and as a harrasser. But what makes this hero really such a great pick is his 'home run' ability. In baseball if you have homerun threats in your line-up, you're never out of a game. Chain frost makes lich, even with only a bracer and not even a mek, a power hitter. Engaging against a lich team is always dangerous, especially outside of lanes away from creeps, as he threatens the home run of 5-7 hits of chain frost doing thousands of damage (with some skill and luck this can easily happen on a lane too.) Likewise, the earthshaker shows this same potential, as he can trap you in many ways, often forcing entire teams into devestating damage through a geographical ambush. Also, once the earthshaker gets a dagger he gains the same several thousand damage threat as the lich, but he offers this advantage mainly in lanes around creeps, the opposite of the lich (of course.)
When ever you can have homerun hitters in your line-up like these, it really tests the other team strategically. If they don't know all the nuances of engaging these heroes, including avoiding their engages, including taking proper probalistic routes to avoid engages from the fog (as this is exactly the luck these heroes bank on.) If your enemies are strategically poor, lich/es will hit many homeruns for your teams leading to double digit kill advantages. And even if they do know how to move around and properly engage, its still only playing a game of probability, because lich and earthshaker are always prime to get lucky.
How many times have you seen a team dominate the other, but then fail to finish the deal because the earthshaker destroys them a couple times? I personally have been gayed by chain frost regularly through the last 2+ years of dota. Sometimes the stars just align and it demolishes your team. "Homerun" heroes are always worth having in your line-up, as it often only takes one wipe to turn a game around. I would place zeus, warlock and beastmaster in this group of heroes, even though their utility isn't as universal as earthshaker and lich (almost always better heroes, but less universal.) They pump out disgusting damage with only a pick, as they don't need farms to begin dominating. These 5 heroes, and most often QoP, I see as a group that are always smart to pick. Like power hitters you can always imagine them in your line-up. Its just maximization of your odds. All these heroes can do thousands of damage with spells along with their general useful qualities.
Enigma is a hero with homerun power, but unlike lich, zeus, warlock, beastmaster and earthshaker he can be completely countered. Imagine Adam Dunn in a couple years and you got your enigma. Zeus pumps out disgusting damage and makes escaping 160-400 damage harder. Lich/es can do thousands of damage. Warlock can force you to change your item builds. Beastmaster can see you coming, and engage cleaner than any hero. There is nothing you can do to completely stop these heroes in a decent match.
In the current state of dota the tidehunter is a hero who is really able to hit homeruns in the current strategic atmosphere. His ultimate is extremely useful as it often hits 5 heroes as an engage, and can often be used for multiple specific tasks. In a recent game I watched bogdan play a fantastic TH (I've also seen quite a few amazing performances by asian players.) During one point he positioned his ultimate perfectly. A hero from the other team was trying to escape, being persued by a SK member, this hero seemed sure to escape. At the same time at the opposite end of the ultimates diameter, he hit 2 heroes that would surely of killed one of his teammates, who was in red HP. He saw both situations forming and moved to the only possible position to achieve both tasks and fired his ultimate. SK's low hp escaped, the other teams low hp hero died, and then bogdan and his companion killed atleast one other of the enemy heroes. It was a huge play. I think a strategy will emerge very soon that will reestablish this hero as one who is never banned. In the next major tournament with all the top teams (including russians) teams are gonna show off all their innovations and I think many teams are gonna snag wins through TH neutralizing strategy.
this post has become very long, but I'll wrap up on spectre. from my previous post you already know how I feel about spectre. He can absolutely dominate with correct timing. But even beyond the heroes capability for a fantastic player to make her shine, even a decent peformance can sometimes create huge upsets. There is always the chance that dispersion will just dominate. Disperse a few high damage hits in a long fight and suddenly spectre has wiped your team, taking a personal triple kill. Spectre lets you get lucky while offer great carrying even without luck. With this hero you're always in the game.
I guess what I'm ultimately suggesting is that some heroes must be picked when possible, and also denied from the other team's roster, because they are a constant threat to turn around the match, similar in vein to powerhitters in MLB line-ups. Last time i checked in PDL teams with zeus were 16-6. This is because he can deliver thousands of damage very easily very often. But when you quickly run out Barry Bonds Mark McGwires from bans and early picks, it never hurts to get a guy who quietly puts away 30 HRs a year, even if another hero who fills the same niche has a slightly better average.
I'm pretty tired, if my grammar is awful feel free to ignore this post or ask for clarification. I'm really bored until work starts. I s'pose I went overboard with my analogy to baseball, ha.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/6568/winvsgddsu4.jpg)
