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[DotA] Replays~!! - Page 38

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BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
July 27 2008 07:51 GMT
#741
I've seen several ES first picks. They make about much sense to me as techies first pick.

Or lineups like Tree Magnataur Enigma CrystalMaiden Warlock. You might win, but it won't be because of your ult combo.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
Alventenie
Profile Joined July 2007
United States2147 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-07-27 15:25:19
July 27 2008 15:21 GMT
#742
Why would they pick naga in that line up x.x, I think Medusa would of been better in every way (to fight warlock and as a carry). Also going for push heavy they need to stop global ults/push breakers. They obviously picked pugna, so they should of had in mind of banning magnus/zeus/qop at least. I can't imagine who they banned if the other team picked those 5 heroes o.O

edit: also reading about how they played they seemed to mess up, a fast push with that line up was bound to fail, all heroes mentioned are extremely good mid game pushers, not early game. If they had omni/furion/zeus/warlock they should of early pushed, but their power comes around level 11-15 when they just finish most of their spells, and have items they need (guinsoo on DS, blink on ES, rest of team with hp/hood). Seems like they just pushed too early and got destroyed by their low hp vs spells.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 07:47:38
August 07 2008 07:20 GMT
#743
So I've been honing my skills in the clan war rooms of china, scrimming almost everyday. Last night I was sent. The bans I don't remember fully but were something like

Scourge: qop, es, puck
Sent: zeus, wl, bm

Picks were

Scourge: nec

Sent: na + potm

Scourge: pugna + cm

Sent: lich + snk

Scourge: bb + abaddon

Sent: sf

Sent top: na/potm vs loa/bb
mid: sf vs nec
bot: lich/snk(leoric) vs cm/pugna

I definitely fucked up with the sf pick. It should've been obvious they were going for fast push after they picked pugna + cm. sf needs to farm and is super weak without items. I picked him because we needed someone to clear creeps fast and since potm was gonna go diffusal I thought I needed another early midgame dps. For the last pick someone suggested pitlord, or kotl. If I could do it over I'd probably pick kotl instead of lich but for the last pick I really can't think of anyone who is good at defense except for maybe like chen, but he is a hard hero to use. I'm really not familiar with pitlord at all.

Basically what happened was, we had more kills early game, bottom lane dominated, snk 13 minute armlet. Middle was sorta even. Top my na died twice stupidly. Abaddon basically stayed really back and just gave bb shield and used mana potions. At about 12min ish they pushed the down outer middle tower. We couldn't do anything. They kept on pushing. Pugna's staff fucks me and sf up. Necrolyte heals. bb charges in front with shield from abaddon and we can't do anything. None of us have any items except for leoric's armlet. They kept pushing and the only time we won a battle was when sf did a good ult. By the time any one of us had any good items our middle was raxed and bb had radi by 25 minutes and we gg'd.

So, what should we have done, who should I have picked?
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
Last Edited: 2008-08-07 07:47:55
August 07 2008 07:36 GMT
#744
Replace SF with puck. EZ win.

But i'm kinda thinking the hero you're forgetting in bans was him.

A good puck orb/wane + ult pretty much sets up lich for a triple++ kill, since you kill everything and force people to stay close. If he WAS banned, pitlord sets up lich's ult beautifully, or you could have gotten mag. Even without dagger, teams rarely get sent wards because of potm, giving you a nice opportunity to invis into rp-> shockwave + rest of team's aoe.

Even with pugna's ward up, you should have them all dead (besides bb), so it shouldn't matter how much damage you take on the chin. If you survive the 12-16 window you win.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
August 07 2008 07:39 GMT
#745
SF isn't too bad against fast push. 3 quick area nukes is scary if he's used well.

Actually, the lineup doesn't look bad at all. Except for snk, everyone has area damage.

I suggest watching Mouz vs SK, I think it was, still on GGTV. Mouz's push strat was countered beautifully. SK basically gave up all their outer towers and out-farmed until they could meet Mouz's forces straight up.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 07 2008 07:46 GMT
#746
On August 07 2008 16:36 L wrote:
Replace SF with puck. EZ win.

But i'm kinda thinking the hero you're forgetting in bans was him.

A good puck orb/wane + ult pretty much sets up lich for a triple++ kill, since you kill everything and force people to stay close. If he WAS banned, pitlord sets up lich's ult beautifully, or you could have gotten mag. Even without dagger, teams rarely get sent wards because of potm, giving you a nice opportunity to invis into rp-> shockwave + rest of team's aoe.

Even with pugna's ward up, you should have them all dead (besides bb), so it shouldn't matter how much damage you take on the chin. If you survive the 12-16 window.


oh yea puck was 3rd ban
L
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Canada4732 Posts
August 07 2008 07:56 GMT
#747
oh yea puck was 3rd ban


T_T.

Also: NA probably prompted some sent dropping, so you'd need dagger on mag. Not TOO hard by 20 min.

I think the issue with SF's razes is more that if he moves into position to toss some off, he gets hit by aphotic, quills and takes netherward flare to the face. Around 600-700 damage on the low side. A single frostbite or anything, really, ends him. The flip side is that even if he lands 2 solid ones, it would take necro very little time to patch up his allies. The real strength of the opposition, imo, is 100% in bb. He can take razes, starfall, impale and with a shield/coil and death nova, he's back to full and your team has eaten 500 pure quill damage + pugna ward damage. The key to beating that has to be in being able to take down bb's support asap, which i think would be best done with an aoe combo.

That's my perspective, but i'm not hyperelitezomg good.
The number you have dialed is out of porkchops.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 07 2008 08:06 GMT
#748
well the thing is when they push bb is always way out in front and everyone else except for nec way out in back with a nicely placed death ward somewhere in between. Only way we can even attack is if we have a very good initiator, something like sf's ult first then we kill as many as we can. But of course without dagger and bkb sf can not pull off his ult, therefore we can't really get past bb. On another thought maybe it would've been good to pick omni so he can ult first. They have two big healers and we have none, in battles there is really no way we can engage unless they make a mistake. Actually if I can do it over again I would go something like

enigma omni

potm kotl

od
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
August 07 2008 08:30 GMT
#749
You could possibly use NA to assassinate someone while BB is out in front doing his shit. Even if NA doesn't actually get a kill, he could conceivably distract/stun the other team long enough for you to take out BB.
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 08 2008 08:27 GMT
#750
So I was scrimming yesterday with someone supposedly good and he banned cm
BottleAbuser
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
Korea (South)1888 Posts
August 08 2008 08:29 GMT
#751
CM LINA COMBO! MUAHAHAHHA
Compilers are like boyfriends, you miss a period and they go crazy on you.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 08 2008 08:43 GMT
#752
man fuck playing dota with dumb chinese people. Some starcraft people got challenged by some other people to a clan war and I wanted to call picks but this other dude did. First game the lineup was snk lich ts jugg morph, sick combos rite. Fucking noobies playing pubs don't know how to scrim picks jugg and morph on same team with one stun. I was lich supposed to buy wards, boots, two bracers, headress for 40 minutes. Afterwards they were like dude you suck you didnt have any items I WAS LIKE I WAS FUCKING BUYING AND PLACE WARDS TO SAVE YOU STUPID FUCKS SO YOUR JUGG CAN OMNISLASH CM AND DO NOTHING IN BATTLES.

Opposing team had brood cm lion th zeus. Jugg goes godlike in first 20min and then we get butt raped after brood gets bkb. Then first thing jugg says, I played well, I had nothing to do with the loss I wanted to go over to where he lived and choke him to death.

The second game this other dude fucking bans na tb cm, they get puck with first pick we get butt raped again by brood. Afterwards they started debating whose fault it was I started swearing at them in english telling them all to shut the fuck up then signed off.
thedeadhaji *
Profile Blog Joined January 2006
39489 Posts
August 08 2008 09:07 GMT
#753
zulu I read the last 5 pages of thsi thread exculsively looking for your rants ahhaha they are amazing please keep them rolling.
Chewits
Profile Joined September 2006
Northern Ireland1200 Posts
August 08 2008 11:36 GMT
#754
On August 07 2008 16:20 zulu_nation8 wrote:
So I've been honing my skills in the clan war rooms of china, scrimming almost everyday. Last night I was sent. The bans I don't remember fully but were something like

Scourge: qop, es, puck
Sent: zeus, wl, bm

Picks were

Scourge: nec

Sent: na + potm

Scourge: pugna + cm

Sent: lich + snk

Scourge: bb + abaddon

Sent: sf

Sent top: na/potm vs loa/bb
mid: sf vs nec
bot: lich/snk(leoric) vs cm/pugna

I definitely fucked up with the sf pick. It should've been obvious they were going for fast push after they picked pugna + cm. sf needs to farm and is super weak without items. I picked him because we needed someone to clear creeps fast and since potm was gonna go diffusal I thought I needed another early midgame dps. For the last pick someone suggested pitlord, or kotl. If I could do it over I'd probably pick kotl instead of lich but for the last pick I really can't think of anyone who is good at defense except for maybe like chen, but he is a hard hero to use. I'm really not familiar with pitlord at all.

Basically what happened was, we had more kills early game, bottom lane dominated, snk 13 minute armlet. Middle was sorta even. Top my na died twice stupidly. Abaddon basically stayed really back and just gave bb shield and used mana potions. At about 12min ish they pushed the down outer middle tower. We couldn't do anything. They kept on pushing. Pugna's staff fucks me and sf up. Necrolyte heals. bb charges in front with shield from abaddon and we can't do anything. None of us have any items except for leoric's armlet. They kept pushing and the only time we won a battle was when sf did a good ult. By the time any one of us had any good items our middle was raxed and bb had radi by 25 minutes and we gg'd.

So, what should we have done, who should I have picked?


You know why did you not take Magnus? He can solo mid, even against Necro. Then Magnus is great for mid game gangage when he is highest level. Also, Magnus is descent to defend with. Also, Magnus is SUPERB with Lich. Then if it transitions to late game, your PotM could carry with Magnus buffing her with his Rage.

I am just amazed he wasn't picked, considering he wasnt even banned!
Whats the altitude?
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 08 2008 18:55 GMT
#755
well magnus cant really pull off his ult without a dagger and he probably can't farm it before they start pushing.
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 08 2008 18:56 GMT
#756
btw i quite dota forever, dumb game imo.
Ack1027
Profile Blog Joined January 2004
United States7873 Posts
August 08 2008 19:10 GMT
#757
On August 09 2008 03:56 zulu_nation8 wrote:
btw i quite dota forever, dumb game imo.

shit happens.

I took a 2 month break [ well excluding the korean games with heen and bdares ] and this game is actually ' fun again '
Zelniq
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States7166 Posts
August 08 2008 19:16 GMT
#758
you should come play with us on GGC, BLY
ModeratorBlame yourself or God
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 08 2008 19:20 GMT
#759
I want to but theres laaaaaaaaaaat, I'll definitely play when get back to the states
zulu_nation8
Profile Blog Joined May 2005
China26351 Posts
August 08 2008 19:20 GMT
#760
I should ob your games
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