EPT[DotA] Replays~!! - Page 15
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{ToT}Strafe
Thailand7026 Posts
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CubEdIn
Romania5359 Posts
Judicator: I get what you're saying about use of skadi, but seriously, any other high-priced-item would probably be better. Like an aga if you want the stats, guinsoo, orchid, heck even shiva, the new eul and so on. I don't think it gives you decent advantage as a first item, and I did try it as a fast item, it's just not that good as any of the other ones. And I have played clan wars, but I usually go strength stunners in them (like Sven, Sand king, Skeleton king, Earthshaker etc.) I know pub builds don't account for much but nevertheless zulu was asking about pub games. You can't expect him to play the way malek plays with qop. Also, I know that guinsoo is probably a better item to start with then lynken, if nothing else then to help your team, but I like the lynken because in most games you have at least 2 target-stunners and one targeted ulti that deals damage, so I play more selfishly, at least until I realize how good my team is. JeeJee: Bottle+2nulls+boots = 4 slots in your inventory. If you get a TP scroll or something then you're left with just one slot free. That's not enough for me in most games, but maybe you're ok with that. Also, the 'bad' thing I said about bottle is: So just to be clear, I only got annoyed when I heard someone saying that pers is crap and you should go bottle/nulls instead. No regen on qop is newb mode on k tnx bi. which doesn't contradict with any of the statements I previously made. If you read this and think "he's saying bottle is useless" then yes, you're right. But I don't think most people are. Also, one last thing: Not all pubs are noob matches. For example, take Romania Room-1. It's almost always full, and during the 'busy' times of the day it's got ~250 people in it, with over 100 gold members. And some of those guys are really good players, from top Ro clans like TeG, iGG and others. So most of the times, it's really really hard to win a game vs a pre-set team. Even if they're not together in lan or something, they're still very well coordinated because of the amount of experience of each player. Most of those games are of higher caliber than normal dota-league games, if you play with/against the right people. That's the very reason I bought a gold account. So don't diss all pubs, some are way better than you would expect. | ||
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rpf
United States2705 Posts
I'd think a pers would be better for staying in a lane for a long-ass time, but with a bottle you either have to be grabbing the one rune that spawns every even minute before the nine other players in the game do, or you have to go back to the fountain. Each has its use, but to say one is better than the other is like saying that BW is inherently better than WC3. Okay, that was a bad example. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
Each has its use, but to say one is better than the other is like saying that BW is inherently better than WC3. Okay, that was a bad example. that was a horrible analogy. anyways i agree that these arguments have no real point, as already been stated they serve different purposes imo for different qop playstyles. if i were to play a gank-heavy style on any hero i would prefer bottle over pers anyday. and lets stop arguing about skadi on qop. everyone knows there's better items but as judicator said it's true that it's not a bad item to rush on qop, in fact shes one of the only heroes who can do well rushing straight to skadi. but if you want to really benefit your team in ganks and battles guinsoo > any other 1st core item. i'm not sure if this is a good example but just as going dagon on qop is overkill simply because you don't need it considering your arsenal of nukes, another slow usually isn't necessary to gank successfully as you already have ss. i'm interested in ggc games now, i havent ever played dota on ggc only games i played were starcraft and wc3 a few times, and til this point i wasn't aware that it's a ladder =S makes me wanna play it. i guess what people were trying to say about bottle+nulls was that if you want to follow the current pro trends for qop right now, that's the way to go. i don't doubt the validity of any of judicator's arguments and advice as he's probably a far better player than me with much more experience in league-type play but no offense sometimes you come out a little cocky in what you say here, don't get it wrong though. whenever anyone here that plays at a higher level than me gives some advice i usually take it well and try to apply them in my games. | ||
Mynock
4492 Posts
On April 04 2008 23:21 rpf wrote: I'm not sure why people are arguing so much about pers and bottle. I mean, one is a regen item, and one is a burst regen item. They aren't really comparable in the sense that they have two different uses. I'd think a pers would be better for staying in a lane for a long-ass time, but with a bottle you either have to be grabbing the one rune that spawns every even minute before the nine other players in the game do, or you have to go back to the fountain. Each has its use, but to say one is better than the other is like saying that BW is inherently better than WC3. Okay, that was a bad example. Well, if you don't think BW is better than WC3 maybe I should just rip your head off and shit down your neck? N00b. Go buy some bracers. + Show Spoiler + Strafe happy now, yes? | ||
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Naib
Hungary4952 Posts
On April 04 2008 15:04 paper wrote: WEB DOESNT GIVE VISION ANYMORE??!?!?!? W T F *true sight, but thank god for that. I really fucking hate to play against Broodshitmother for this. (I still do) | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
and guinsoo > brood easily before she gets bkb | ||
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rpf
United States2705 Posts
that was a horrible analogy. That was...the point? :3 N00b. Go buy some bracers. kk brb lulz | ||
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punt
Singapore50 Posts
for u dota fans.. a game i played with my friends on US WEST.. it was a pub game i played with 4 of my friends,, we went up against 5 pubbers and was it a hard earned victory.. the game dragged like no tml but eventually Sentinel took the win.. There's a bug on the posting screen coz we had an Invoker on the Sentinel side but somehow it does'nt show tt there was an invoker.. Sentinel: Butcher Tormented Sou Stealth Assasin Viper ( me ) Invoker ( not shown on the dl page) Scourge: Faceless Void Tinker Bounty Hunter Spiritbreaker Lightning Revenant I played kinda noobish for the early part of the game, fed a lot etc.. but somehow managed to farm up enough good items without my teammates pumping me.. anyway, hope u guys enjoy the vid.. | ||
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[TYG]Transcend
679 Posts
To make this post not be a total waste, the current debate seems to be about Bottle vs Perseverance. I'll just put my 2 cents, as I don't plan on reading such long text blocks as I'm going to assuming the same thing was said twice maybe thrice. Also for that point of if the game is pro or not (not sure if I read it from this thread or some other DotA forum), yes we shouldn't compare us to games such as MYM Pride, but you should look toward the better games to see why the items or heroes are chosen because, well, they are at the finals of Pride or HTGN Pro or whatever for a reason. Just because were not pro, doesn't mean we should look at the better players to see what we should do to improve our game play and have more fun, honestly if you never look to become better even if you just play for fun, it wont be as fun. It's ridiculous to tell us not to look at the better teams and compare, but constructively of course. That aside, if it's not part of this argument, my apologies. Any ganking style hero absolutely needs bottle to have burst hp/mana to gank, perseverance does not give a good enough regen for ganking heroes, as I think Judicator said Map control and Rune control wins games. So if you're a gank style QoP, which you should be but not necessarily, then get a bottle. Alternatively, if you're going to be a very passive QoP and farm for a long time, which could be good if you're missing a carry late game or something, the constant regeneration of perseverance is better for that style. Bottle is a much better choice because it'll force you to have that rune and map control to use it efficiently. Alternatively if you have plenty of gank style heroes that will get the runes and everything you could just play perseverance and farm and go in when you start pushing I guess. But the problem about perseverance is that for the cost, it's not that great, you can almost get your ultimate orb, or a staff + belt/book recipe for that gold. Linkens is still not that great ether as an item. There's a reason why the top tier players get bottle over perseverance on QoP. IMO it's probably best for her as her nukes early/mid game and the burst of mana/hp really helps. Besides the mana regen/hp is negligible by the Staff + Belt and the eventual function of book3. Anyways, I'm back from my little hiatus. =[ I want to play puck nao. | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 04 2008 14:30 Butigroove wrote: Silencer goes CotS versus viper because it just houses him so hard. heres the scenario, Silencer goes cots, viper dicks on him at 5, oh wait viper already dicks on him at 5 and 6 and 7 and 8 and etc. silencer basically has to win the lane before 5 assuming similar skill levels and your cots theory fails miserably with a single level into fervor and then the viper doesn't have to worry about your glaives hitting for +30 early on. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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!BigBlind!
69 Posts
Can be found here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=68666 | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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punt
Singapore50 Posts
On April 05 2008 14:47 zulu_nation8 wrote: what kind of a hero is viper, i rarely see it being a carry in replays, is it just a early ganking hero? well i tend to use viper alot or rather i used to random him alot.. imo if u ask me viper's pretty much used along the lines of the typical low-health, high dps and attack speed agi.. the only difference is tt viper can solo a lane while harassing the crap out of his opponent.. his poison skill is uber irritating and his armor helps him to stay alive against nukers and what not.. however, he has shitty base stats when his health is concerned and tt is one thing you need to remember when using him.. im not a pro by any means but from experience, viper if given a chance to farm well is bad news for the opposition, well tt much is obvious for any other hero but i just thought i would say it anyway.. heh.. he can be used for ganks from early to late game.. its just tt u need to bear in mind tt the opponent will tend to aim for you if ur using viper as ur health is crap, as stated above.. his ulti slows down the opponent alot and his 2nd skill ensures tt the opponent stays slowed so much so tt whenever viper initiates an attack alongside his team mates, tt opponent will usually more often then not end up dead, assuming tt ur team mates help out coz sometimes team mates in pub games can be uber unreliable,, items wise i tend to go for vanguard first and a str power threads.. then i'll see how my farming goes and what are the opposing heroes before buying other items.. ideally i would just like to farm for a radiance or butterfly but tt will take time.. or if u would rather play it safe, u can farm for a linken for protection.. if u need more health, sny is an interestingly good item.. why i say so is tt sny gives u health and attack speed.. if u include ur frenzy tt means once ur mana runs out and u cant cast ur 2nd skill, u'll still be able to main ur opponent ensuring a kill.. ok back to the topic at hand.. basically imo, viper is a hero killer cum initiator of ganks as he is one of the dmg power house heroes.. tt is how i feel viper shld be used..im not too sure what the term carry refers to but if u explain to me then maybe i can ans ur qn better.. anyway, i have no idea if i ans-ed ur qn but tts my 2 cents worth on viper.. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Naib
Hungary4952 Posts
branches / bottle, BoT, MKB, Buriza (or nekkid rapier lolz. not suited for today's CW standards) | ||
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Naib
Hungary4952 Posts
Like: Viper - You already got your orb in your second skill, FUCK. NOOOOOOOO. | ||
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{ToT}Strafe
Thailand7026 Posts
On April 05 2008 21:23 punt wrote: well i tend to use viper alot or rather i used to random him alot.. imo if u ask me viper's pretty much used along the lines of the typical low-health, high dps and attack speed agi.. the only difference is tt viper can solo a lane while harassing the crap out of his opponent.. his poison skill is uber irritating and his armor helps him to stay alive against nukers and what not.. however, he has shitty base stats when his health is concerned and tt is one thing you need to remember when using him.. im not a pro by any means but from experience, viper if given a chance to farm well is bad news for the opposition, well tt much is obvious for any other hero but i just thought i would say it anyway.. heh.. he can be used for ganks from early to late game.. its just tt u need to bear in mind tt the opponent will tend to aim for you if ur using viper as ur health is crap, as stated above.. his ulti slows down the opponent alot and his 2nd skill ensures tt the opponent stays slowed so much so tt whenever viper initiates an attack alongside his team mates, tt opponent will usually more often then not end up dead, assuming tt ur team mates help out coz sometimes team mates in pub games can be uber unreliable,, items wise i tend to go for vanguard first and a str power threads.. then i'll see how my farming goes and what are the opposing heroes before buying other items.. ideally i would just like to farm for a radiance or butterfly but tt will take time.. or if u would rather play it safe, u can farm for a linken for protection.. if u need more health, sny is an interestingly good item.. why i say so is tt sny gives u health and attack speed.. if u include ur frenzy tt means once ur mana runs out and u cant cast ur 2nd skill, u'll still be able to main ur opponent ensuring a kill.. ok back to the topic at hand.. basically imo, viper is a hero killer cum initiator of ganks as he is one of the dmg power house heroes.. tt is how i feel viper shld be used..im not too sure what the term carry refers to but if u explain to me then maybe i can ans ur qn better.. anyway, i have no idea if i ans-ed ur qn but tts my 2 cents worth on viper.. Bit late for april fools, fool | ||
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Naib
Hungary4952 Posts
YOU ARE FUCKING LATE FOR APRIL'S FOOLS, THIS IS THE 5TH OF APRIL <- fixed | ||
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