EPTThe Official Fighting Games Topic - Page 88
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SayaSP
Laos5494 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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Ginseng
United States268 Posts
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freelander
Hungary4707 Posts
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pachi
Melbourne5338 Posts
On December 18 2008 03:37 anotak wrote: + Show Spoiler [stuff] + On December 17 2008 13:00 MCMcEmcee wrote: The reason I bring that up is because useful matchup experience involves a lot of observing ranges/angles/move interactions over a large sample of matches, not just stuff you could find out by looking at a frame data chart and think "oh that's punishable." If you are a stage where you still don't know how to block certain moves or what is/isn't punishable by whatever moves, then you maybe are going to have trouble learning that on GGPO (though truth be told, a lot of blocking well is an anticipation/mind game thing more so than reaction thing). That is not an insult, it's just the way you talk about matchup experience heavily implies that you still aren't looking for the right things. There are things that really ought to be a given (ex. Shoto sweep is punishable on block) but that isn't the kind of thing you should need much play time to figure out. What IS useful is seeing the ranges where a Shoto player uses their sweep, conditions where they will or won't go for it, what you can do to get them to do it, etc. Like Ken vs. Chun, sweep easily punishes whiffed bk+fierce on reaction, and it can "punish" Chun for pacing back and forth at her s.fierce range (Ken can also walk up sweep a whiffed s.fierce if it just barely whiffed, but that's kinda hard). Chun can of course just start "randomly" blocking low while she's doing the normal pacing thing, to see if she can draw out a sweep, or she can just make sure she's not in a position to whiff stuff. Or like, Yun/Yang jumps at Ken in a neutral situation. Frame data says "uppercut dat" and that is indeed the default reaction for a lot of people, but jump back j.RH on reaction to the jump is way easier/safer than trying to uppercut a divekick and generally more successful. Or Urien vs. Makoto, at around Makoto's max dash range Urien can anticipate a dash -> throw and do "random" c.fierce at that range if he expects her to dash; if he catches her, free juggle. It's not terribly hard to guess that Makoto wants to do dash -> throw once she gets into that sweet spot, either, if you know to be looking for it. These kinds of things are precisely what a no-pressure environment like GGPO is perfect for figuring out. Unless you're on some twisted faux Sirlin "PLAY TO WIN OMG" power trip or something, where the very thought of losing to overheads is the worst thing ever, there is a lot of opportunity on GGPO to be like "I wonder if Ken's s.jab beats Chun's s.fierce" (it does if your spacing is right, incidentally). All that to say that 3S is a fighting game, not a parry-situation minigame. GGPO is useful for learning how to play it like the former, not the latter. It's far more productive to be like "oh hey this move beats that move, I didn't know that" than to be like "omg I missed my hit-confirm lag makes this game pointless just like these guys I know said omg." I do understand a lot of these concepts. And, perhaps I do lack matchup experience outside of one particular matchup. That matchup Ken vs. Dudley, Ken because I play Ken and nobody else ever, and Dudley, because my teacher plays Dudley and maybe Hugo when he wants to go easy on me. Though he has played other character briefly to show me matchups, and that's something that's pretty easy to pick up on. In one game against his Dudley, I learn more than I do in a hundred games online. He's probably the best 3rd Strike player in the Atlantic South outside of Florida at the moment (based on placings at impact clash and the various georgia tournaments and the Birmingham monthly). Sure, I've played plenty of Kens, Akumas, Yuns, Alexes, Qs (I don't know why this guy is so popular around here), and Makotos, and I demolish most of them (at least in casuals). As far as higher level tournament players I've lost to them plenty before, but it wasn't because of that particular matchup but rather just sloppy play in general by me. I understand what matchup specifics are. I know why standing fierce is good against Dudley (and at what positions) but not so much as good against most other characters. And I don't play by frame data of course, I use it to see IF things are possible in some ways, but of course I don't worship it. And what you mentioned isn't even that matchup specific, many characters love to dash up and throw (sure, it's a particularly really really good option for makoto), and knowing everyone's maximum dash range isn't that hard. And I understand what you're saying about conditions where a player will or won't use their sweep. What I'm saying is that lag will make these conditions different. And there are situations that I see to be much more difficult online (ex. punishing a Ken c.mk with corkscrew blow on reaction like my opponent does, unless he seriously doesn't expect c.mk at that moment (which is hard to do, considering how much I overuse c.mk to super)). What you said about punishing Chun's b+fierce is again, something that takes reaction time. Online you have less reaction time and naturally it'll happen less often. It's nowhere near as fast as corkscrew blowing c.mk so it still happens a lot probably... but again, situations arise because of the lack of punish or the lack of blocking of certain moves that mean that you're learning the game's psychology and yomi differently than the real game. And that means that you will not be able to read players as correctly when it comes down to it. It also means you won't be prepared for people who can do things on reaction like that. And people online also play expecting certain things to be safer so many use those much more, again making it further faulty experience. It's just not the same matchup anymore. So you're saying that my iccup laddering isn't as beneficial for me as my 1v1 lan practice against jaedong? That iccup is worthless, I'm just going to drive down to my local progaming house and mass games against koreans all day. | ||
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New Zealand6138 Posts
On December 18 2008 05:21 freelander wrote: I believe in random supers. Like a famous man once said, you can't block random also lol at that first round | ||
Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
 On December 18 2008 05:56 Ginseng wrote: [BB vid] Nice comeback. But that Rachel player is newb for getting grabbed at such an obvious time: he should have done universal block. =P | ||
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Bill307
Canada9103 Posts
 As proof, I offer my Arakune, whose entire gameplan consists of cloud -> air rush -> air dive, and 2A 2A 2C.  | ||
GTR
51523 Posts
On December 17 2008 09:27 CynanMachae wrote: WHERE ARE YOU AT Watched this almsot ten times now Just amazingthat is plagoo-equivalent material | ||
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KOFgokuon
United States14900 Posts
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thedeadhaji
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NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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KOFgokuon
United States14900 Posts
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New Zealand6138 Posts
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
I've been trying to collect old #R Sol matches because my arcades have AC and #R machines and I like #R Sol, but I can only find terrible video quality ones on Youtube. If anyone happens to have good ones, or knows where I can get good #R Sol videos, by all means let me know. oh and 'terrible terrible burst', that one's a constant in BB too | ||
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thedeadhaji
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KOFgokuon
United States14900 Posts
track him down | ||
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H
New Zealand6138 Posts
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