I guess I play more aggressive harassing Axe than most people so I don't notice. I don't actually make the Hood until fairly late (post boots), just hold on the Cloak. I also don't stack like you guys do probably.

nitram

Canada5412 Posts

July 18 2010 22:41 GMT

#19845

You need to lvl up to harass. That kind of relies on killing neuts and even without stacking you're gonna have problems with high lvl creeps.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

July 18 2010 22:52 GMT

#19846

On July 19 2010 07:41 nitram wrote:
You need to lvl up to harass. That kind of relies on killing neuts and even without stacking you're gonna have problems with high lvl creeps.

I lane-pull the camps (after stacking on the 1 min mark) that I can and do the weak camp right afterwards, if I feel like it or can, I'll try to get the 2 minute pull doubled up on Sentinel bot with the eat-a-tree-pull. That usually gets me enough to harass pretty aggressively since I can effectively babysit the bot lane hero with just sheer annoyance and/or fear.

You'd surprised how many players at any level don't have an idea on how to deal with level 1 and 2 harass, it's riskier with Axe. I rather trade lane presence at sent bot or scourge top for some farm/levels as long as I don't hit 2 deaths early or quickly.

Alventenie

United States2147 Posts

July 18 2010 23:43 GMT

#19847

In nearly every game ive played the pull spot is warded.

nitram

Canada5412 Posts

July 18 2010 23:48 GMT

#19848

Has anyone ever seen Judicator play?

rabidch

United States20289 Posts

July 19 2010 00:03 GMT

#19849

you pull the weak creep spots yaya

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

July 19 2010 00:04 GMT

#19850

Real men pull the sent strong left camp into the midlane.
it's part of the patented shinbi strategy where you level up call first instead of helix. it worked well once (timing works out such that you kill that camp, you hit lvl 2, then go kill the weak camp as normal and have just enough time to call-pull the mid-strong camp into the bot lane with a 2nd call (unless the closest to bot lane isnt warded, then just pull that one).

but then this other time i fucked up the call and was stuck as a level 1 axe in the jungle with no helix. it sucked.

rabidch

United States20289 Posts

July 19 2010 00:07 GMT

#19851

On July 19 2010 09:04 JeeJee wrote:
pull the sent strong left camp into the midlane.
it worked well once.

I took out the useless parts

Nitrogen

United States5345 Posts

July 19 2010 00:10 GMT

#19852

remember when u could pull the hard camp to scourge 2nd tower mid? that was hilarious.

On July 19 2010 08:48 nitram wrote:
Has anyone ever seen Judicator play?

nope

rabidch

United States20289 Posts

July 19 2010 00:11 GMT

#19853

On July 19 2010 09:10 Nitrogen wrote:
remember when u could pull the hard camp to scourge 2nd tower mid? that was hilarious.

Show nested quote +

nope

I remember when axe could pull rosh to fountain

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

July 19 2010 00:12 GMT

#19854

On July 19 2010 09:07 rabidch wrote:

Show nested quote +

I took out the useless parts

that post doesn't really help anyone. it's posts like that which got this wonderful thread closed. yeah it worked well once, and didn't work well the other time. i didn't do it after that because, well, you look pretty stupid if you fuck up, haha.
still, i'm pretty sure you can pull it off consistently, and unlike the typical jungle start, it also fucks over scourge's mid cause now they're laning lvl 1 vs lvl 2 (none of the creeps make it out, because by pulling to mid the timing works out that you also stack the strong camp)

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

July 19 2010 00:57 GMT

#19855

On July 19 2010 08:43 Alventenie wrote:
In nearly every game ive played the pull spot is warded.

I am more worried about the people playing footsies with me in the jungle. I prefer going sentries if I can or have to; free protection and a free fuck you when you're running a solo bot? No thank you, I'll take the 200 gold hit to provide some control, after all I am in the jungle, I can farm that np regardless, having some roaming hero jumping into the jungle because he knows he can't get ganked from tps or runes is dumb, aka as safe as it gets for a roamer.

I played with you guys when you all first started playing on Garena, didn't bother coming back since you were all new. Then I ran into TL in a pug through IRC, devas was there along with corr,

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=64016&currentpage=523#10445

I saved it because I needed replays for DP2 vouch and ended up getting in without needing it, because they thought I was a member of a pretty good Serbian team lololol.

Alventenie

United States2147 Posts

July 19 2010 01:08 GMT

#19856

I don't think ive every played with you, but you'd have to burn sentries + a crow (if you have another person who will crow it at the beginning, further gimping a lane since your solo btm will need as much gold as he can get for hp vs dual lane) to kill his ward (since he can place it in the jungle to stop you, so you can either crow or burn your tangoes.

On top of that they can still have a ward to spot you on the way to the lane and still see the rune. Even if you kill their ward, you still spend alot of time and can't pull that camp until 2 minutes now and they should have already beaten your solo by pulling the lane back so he cannot go into exp range without fear of death. The 200 gold + time wasted leaves you behind if you don't get extremely easy camps to farm out quickly. Add that into you want to go hood first and try to play aggressive in lane, you will eventually split exp with your solo leaving you both in a spot where you began, virtually the same level, except your solo will be behind in cs and you could even be behind in levels before you try to harass your opposing lane.

Judicator

United States7270 Posts

July 19 2010 01:19 GMT

#19857

On July 19 2010 10:08 Alventenie wrote:
I don't think ive every played with you, but you'd have to burn sentries + a crow (if you have another person who will crow it at the beginning, further gimping a lane since your solo btm will need as much gold as he can get for hp vs dual lane) to kill his ward (since he can place it in the jungle to stop you, so you can either crow or burn your tangoes.

On top of that they can still have a ward to spot you on the way to the lane and still see the rune. Even if you kill their ward, you still spend alot of time and can't pull that camp until 2 minutes now and they should have already beaten your solo by pulling the lane back so he cannot go into exp range without fear of death. The 200 gold + time wasted leaves you behind if you don't get extremely easy camps to farm out quickly. Add that into you want to go hood first and try to play aggressive in lane, you will eventually split exp with your solo leaving you both in a spot where you began, virtually the same level, except your solo will be behind in cs and you could even be behind in levels before you try to harass your opposing lane.

To a point Alv. I try to go into the lane/jungle with sentries, not wait for you to ward before I opt for sentries, I am not crowing either. If you want to get into a ward trade with me sure, but I already won sent bot or scourge top that way then. I am also not going to counter-ward right away if I suspect 3/4 man shenanigans at either lane.

I am not going to play stupidly into aggression if the lane or situation doesn't allow it, I just prefer to punk the shit out of the lane if I can. If the situation plays out like you said, I would be calling for an early TP gank from the dual lane or just sit in the lane myself, whatever works best.