EPTTo be honest, I'd say BH is a better SS counterpick.
How would BH counter SS more then Chipper o.O?
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SC2Phoenix
Canada2814 Posts
How would BH counter SS more then Chipper o.O? | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 28 2010 09:13 SC2Phoenix wrote: How would BH counter SS more then Chipper o.O? With a loggers and iron shield you'll never get a good start against him, and unlike other melee you can't harass him out. You'd only get ck from demon hand if bh is good, no? | ||
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paper
13197 Posts
hey hey + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/498/pweese.png) | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
ryugie, i thought you were cool, but you're just a sicko | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:27 Pokebunny wrote: With a loggers and iron shield you'll never get a good start against him, and unlike other melee you can't harass him out. You'd only get ck from demon hand if bh is good, no? Chipper has huge base damage and can actually kill SS. Unlike BH, he doesn't require 5k gold in items to start the rape train and you're going to want to push SS's team asap because at level 5 demon hand becomes free dollars regardless of how well you're denying shit. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:41 L wrote: Chipper has huge base damage and can actually kill SS. Unlike BH, he doesn't require 5k gold in items to start the rape train and you're going to want to push SS's team asap because at level 5 demon hand becomes free dollars regardless of how well you're denying shit. Chipper does not have huge base damage, rofl. Bullshit. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:45 Pokebunny wrote: Chipper does not have huge base damage, rofl. Bullshit. His damage is really good for 600 range hero, and his atatck animation is ridiculously fast. So yes, L is pretty much right. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:46 Butigroove wrote: His damage is really good for 600 range hero, and his atatck animation is ridiculously fast. So yes, L is pretty much right. Chipper's base damage always feels really low to me. Maybe it's not, but it certainly feels super low. | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:47 Butigroove wrote: Oh yeah and BH is a shitty hero that does nothing in teamfights. (aghs on chipper beats whole teams) He silences one and stops another from moving, seems okay to me | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:47 Pokebunny wrote: Chipper's base damage always feels really low to me. Maybe it's not, but it certainly feels super low. Maybe its because you're bad and rely on lumber axe to last hit with 60 base damage melee heros. Heads up; you don't need 80 damage to last hit properly vs a hero that deals 35. He silences one and stops another from moving, seems okay to me Compared to what, exactly? The majority of heros that you REALLY want silenced are going to be blinking in anyways. | ||
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Alventenie
United States2147 Posts
In mid skill i would suspect a ss > chipper, but once you get to high skill a chipper can crush a SS all day with 1 exception, he has to have decent rune luck. If he gets an illu/dd at first ss will lose the lane and chipper will go on to an awesome game. I think SS can fight back but tbh chipper currently is just way too op for any hero mid to beat him (corrupted can break even though) | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:56 Alventenie wrote: Chipper's base is like 1-2 damage higher than corrupted. The only reason chipper is really good vs SS is his kill potential at level 3+ and his animation is really really good. In mid skill i would suspect a ss > chipper, but once you get to high skill a chipper can crush a SS all day with 1 exception, he has to have decent rune luck. If he gets an illu/dd at first ss will lose the lane and chipper will go on to an awesome game. I think SS can fight back but tbh chipper currently is just way too op for any hero mid to beat him (corrupted can break even though) I wouldn't say "any" hero mid, but its going to be a pretty consumable heavy lane regardless. I think the issue is more that he scales so well with triple rocket that its irrelevant whether or not he dominates his lane; he's still going to be eliminating your carry from fights until bkb and separating teams with his ult. When he hits aghs, his ult is just fucking stupid. Only way i can see SS winning is if he gets his own crow and gets to level 3 decently quickly, or gets lucky and pulls a DD/illu of his own. Even then, SS really doesn't provide much for 0:00 rune control because he doesn't deal any damage at level 1. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 28 2010 10:55 L wrote: Maybe its because you're bad and rely on lumber axe to last hit with 60 base damage melee heros. Heads up; you don't need 80 damage to last hit properly vs a hero that deals 35. Compared to what, exactly? The majority of heros that you REALLY want silenced are going to be blinking in anyways. Fair enough, but comparatively, it doesn't seem very high to me. I can lasthit fine with other ranged heroes, I just feel like chipper in particular was an issue to me. You don't think you'd rather have 80 damage vs 35 compared to 45-50 vs 35? I Is defiler's silence useless then? Stuns? What exactly IS the defintion of effective in teamfights? You don't have to be a support to be useful. You don't need to be so hostile about it, either. I never claimed I was better than you, and I've never played with you as far as I know. I'm just going off personal experience, and I'm totally open to learning. | ||
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OmgIRok
Taiwan2699 Posts
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 28 2010 11:04 Pokebunny wrote: Fair enough, but comparatively, it doesn't seem very high to me. I can lasthit fine with other ranged heroes, I just feel like chipper in particular was an issue to me. You don't think you'd rather have 80 damage vs 35 compared to 45-50 vs 35? I Is defiler's silence useless then? Stuns? What exactly IS the defintion of effective in teamfights? You don't have to be a support to be useful. You don't need to be so hostile about it, either. I never claimed I was better than you, and I've never played with you as far as I know. I'm just going off personal experience, and I'm totally open to learning. I see it in pubs all the time both for HoN/DotA, players who lack understanding of hero animations and base damage. To put it in perspective, if you understand timings and damage as well as when you need to hit creeps then 10 damage difference is as effective as a difference. This is one of the reasons why heroes/players who can get away with the +3/+3/+3/salve or the +3/+3/+1/+1/salve/tango starting items in DotA will almost always go for it. Giving yourself +9 or +8 in damage is huge for laning/harass/etc. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On April 28 2010 11:26 Judicator wrote: I see it in pubs all the time both for HoN/DotA, players who lack understanding of hero animations and base damage. To put it in perspective, if you understand timings and damage as well as when you need to hit creeps then 10 damage difference is as effective as a difference. This is one of the reasons why heroes/players who can get away with the +3/+3/+3/salve or the +3/+3/+1/+1/salve/tango starting items in DotA will almost always go for it. Giving yourself +9 or +8 in damage is huge for laning/harass/etc. I understand that, but I'd rather my opponent have 5% chance than a 10% chance to lasthit vs me. Obviously if you're perfect with your last hitting any extra damage helps, but below very top tier, 5-10 damage won't decide a lane. Basically: do you really get no extra benefit from having even more damage than you need? | ||
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Judicator
United States7270 Posts
On April 28 2010 11:31 Pokebunny wrote: I understand that, but I'd rather my opponent have 5% chance than a 10% chance to lasthit vs me. Obviously if you're perfect with your last hitting any extra damage helps, but below very top tier, 5-10 damage won't decide a lane. Basically: do you really get no extra benefit from having even more damage than you need? Let's put it this way, last hitting isn't hard. Last hitting at anything below the top tier range is easy, why? Because you don't have to worry about the other guy or his teammates beating your face in. In other words, 10 damage is huge, I'll take 3 most of the time, 5 makes things a lot easier. Get the notion that being perfect with last hitting is difficult, being good against good players is difficult, last hitting itself is not especially not low tier. Or if you want to hear it another way, last hitting is the easily the easiest thing to master on the way to becoming a better player. And the other reason why 3/3/3 and 3/3/1/1 is/was popular is because it gives you pretty much freedom for item progression without wasting gold. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
On April 28 2010 11:04 Pokebunny wrote: Fair enough, but comparatively, it doesn't seem very high to me. I can lasthit fine with other ranged heroes, I just feel like chipper in particular was an issue to me. You don't think you'd rather have 80 damage vs 35 compared to 45-50 vs 35? I Is defiler's silence useless then? Stuns? What exactly IS the defintion of effective in teamfights? You don't have to be a support to be useful. You don't need to be so hostile about it, either. I never claimed I was better than you, and I've never played with you as far as I know. I'm just going off personal experience, and I'm totally open to learning. Defiler's silence is aoe and has a longer range and perhaps most importantly doesn't give their carry +80% damage. Defiler also kills entire teams with her ult if she isn't focused down asap. She also has an aoe nuke and runs faster than most heros. See the difference in terms of team fight utility? BH does next to nothing during team fights. He deals pitiful damage before getting items (he seriously has one of the shittiest stat growths in the game) and ganks mediocrely once teams learn how to ward. He can't stop people from TPing away from his ganks alone, which means he's essentially a shitty ganking hero and a mediocre carry. The only reason why he's decent at mid level is because people are too shit to burst him out of lanes and they enjoy running around with rupture on. I use him as a hero to shit on pubs with, but I'd never take him in a real game. | ||
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L
Canada4732 Posts
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