EPT[HoN/DotA] Let's Play~!! - Page 1313
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
Isn't tb's 375? Also there are ults that hit harder (Pyro, WS). Defiler (Krobbus) is one of my better carries, but the issue with her is mostly just that she needs three things to be effective and it takes too long to farm all of them. Her spirits move super slow and she isn't exactly amazingly fast so you need ms and slow to prevent them from just running away (which is what most of the smarter people do when a leveled defiler ults). She also needs a lot of survivability and hp. Yes, you can get a bloodstone by the 20 minute mark without too much effort. To even reach this point though you need to not be against a hero that is good against defiler and not be ganked, and be massively better than them in general. (She does tend to own hag and a few other common mids). But then you need phaseboots and a fws(or frostfield plate or stormspirit in extreme situations I guess) to prevent people from literally just walking off, unless you have a very cc heavy team. If you get phaseboots before other people have them then yeah you can chase them to death at level 8 with your ult.... but you won't outdps two people or even one person and a tower, and you will have lower hp than them anyways if you didn't go hotbl or something similar. She needs about 6000 gold more than the other int carries to actually carry (Tort/Dr/Hag all are much more useful much earlier) . Her silence is incredible - 6 seconds MASSIVE aoe. It's easy to hit 3-5 people with and never becomes useless unless every person on the other team decides a bkb would be nice (in which case, congrats, you just got them to blow all of their bkbs. Back out and come back in 10 seconds when your silence is back off CD). I've never played her mid in high level games (ie 1800+ mmr), I've only ever solo'd, which I think is role she fits a lot better. In low level games with my like 1500 roommate and me on a smurf account on Defiler mid (which happens a strange frequency) i've gone 9-0 with 450 gpm and still lost. She just can't carry hard enough early enough really. On a more coordinated team she is fine (with lots of stuns/slows she's great) but you have to pick pretty carefully with her. | ||
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shawster
Canada2485 Posts
basically why pick defiler when you can pick aluna/any decent ranged carry. | ||
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SirMilford
Australia1269 Posts
On May 27 2011 09:27 Nevuk wrote: Isn't tb's 375? Also there are ults that hit harder (Pyro, WS). Defiler (Krobbus) is one of my better carries, but the issue with her is mostly just that she needs three things to be effective and it takes too long to farm all of them. Her spirits move super slow and she isn't exactly amazingly fast so you need ms and slow to prevent them from just running away (which is what most of the smarter people do when a leveled defiler ults). She also needs a lot of survivability and hp. Yes, you can get a bloodstone by the 20 minute mark without too much effort. To even reach this point though you need to not be against a hero that is good against defiler and not be ganked, and be massively better than them in general. (She does tend to own hag and a few other common mids). But then you need phaseboots and a fws(or frostfield plate or stormspirit in extreme situations I guess) to prevent people from literally just walking off, unless you have a very cc heavy team. If you get phaseboots before other people have them then yeah you can chase them to death at level 8 with your ult.... but you won't outdps two people or even one person and a tower, and you will have lower hp than them anyways if you didn't go hotbl or something similar. She needs about 6000 gold more than the other int carries to actually carry (Tort/Dr/Hag all are much more useful much earlier) . Her silence is incredible - 6 seconds MASSIVE aoe. It's easy to hit 3-5 people with and never becomes useless unless every person on the other team decides a bkb would be nice (in which case, congrats, you just got them to blow all of their bkbs. Back out and come back in 10 seconds when your silence is back off CD). I've never played her mid in high level games (ie 1800+ mmr), I've only ever solo'd, which I think is role she fits a lot better. In low level games with my like 1500 roommate and me on a smurf account on Defiler mid (which happens a strange frequency) i've gone 9-0 with 450 gpm and still lost. She just can't carry hard enough early enough really. On a more coordinated team she is fine (with lots of stuns/slows she's great) but you have to pick pretty carefully with her. Mind explaining why you go bloodstone? i freakin suck as defiler so would like to know. | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On May 27 2011 10:34 SirMilford wrote: Mind explaining why you go bloodstone? i freakin suck as defiler so would like to know. Bloodstone is situational on her, like with any hero. If you can get it by the 18 or 19 minute mark it's well worth it - as long as your team isn't going to die in the next 10 minutes and you think you will win the early team fights. In a lot of situations a nullstone will be better - but not always. A safer, slower build goes powersupply ->marchers - > hotbl ->ghost -> shamans -> frostwolf/frostfield . The super slow "i have no farm at all" build is ghost marchers - > stormspirit, vestments, and if you ever have 1200 a glowstone due to it's ridiculous cost value. Bloodstone punishes teams that can focus you down fast doing so, and aoe teams in general as when you die your team will be heal for some amount, and the xp from all of the teamfight can snowball pretty well. But you take it for its survivability, if something else gives better then get that instead. | ||
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Pokebunny
United States10654 Posts
On May 27 2011 10:39 Nevuk wrote: Bloodstone is situational on her, like with any hero. If you can get it by the 18 or 19 minute mark it's well worth it - as long as your team isn't going to die in the next 10 minutes and you think you will win the early team fights. In a lot of situations a nullstone will be better - but not always. A safer, slower build goes powersupply ->marchers - > hotbl ->ghost -> shamans -> frostwolf/frostfield . The super slow "i have no farm at all" build is ghost marchers - > stormspirit, vestments, and if you ever have 1200 a glowstone due to it's ridiculous cost value. Bloodstone punishes teams that can focus you down fast doing so, and aoe teams in general as when you die your team will be heal for some amount, and the xp from all of the teamfight can snowball pretty well. But you take it for its survivability, if something else gives better then get that instead. I generally go null stone -> frost plate against most lineups assuming they have at least a couple solid single target spells. | ||
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CrownRoyal
Vatican City State1872 Posts
steamboots > storm spirit > frostwulf on defiler | ||
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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DarkOptik
452 Posts
It takes literally ten seconds to go to the HoN heroes listing and figure out how much damage it does. "Activation Deals 100 / 175 / 275 / 350 Magic Damage to target and stuns for 0.1 seconds. Gives 1000 day clearvision and 700 night clearvision for 3 seconds. Reveals stealthed units and Wards around target in a 900 radius for 3 seconds" | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On May 27 2011 12:51 DarkOptik wrote: It takes literally ten seconds to go to the HoN heroes listing and figure out how much damage it does. "Activation Deals 100 / 175 / 275 / 350 Magic Damage to target and stuns for 0.1 seconds. Gives 1000 day clearvision and 700 night clearvision for 3 seconds. Reveals stealthed units and Wards around target in a 900 radius for 3 seconds" It's gotten changed before. It used to be 450 | ||
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Dacendoran
United States825 Posts
(All of this is theorycrafting and assuming standard 212 lanes)=o Pharoh in the short lane with the new hatchet and his tormented soul (Especially) on legion side can get tons of farm as long as its only 1v2 and their longlane isnt that aggressive due to the ability to pull and their lack of pulling. You could have a tempest/wb jungling for super push. Not sure what lane youd send long though my guess would be FA myrm for killing potential or Silo/Myrm for the kill potential/escapes. You have storng late/mid/early game prescence lots of gank and push the only problem I see with the team ialong with a vindicator because thats a hell of a lot of teamfight that can be screwed over by one little spell/even silencers prescence. Also Defiler is definitely one of my favorite heroes to play but I have the same issue with her ult people just run like hell . Farming/last hitting with her just feels so RIGHT such a fun hero. | ||
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BlueRoyaL
United States2493 Posts
which is why in all pro matches, they usually dont go into the match with a SET 5 hero strat but they adapt to the other teams picks as well  | ||
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Dacendoran
United States825 Posts
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Nub4ever
Canada1981 Posts
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xZiGGY
United Kingdom801 Posts
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Ethenielle
Norway1006 Posts
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GhostKorean
United States2330 Posts
On May 27 2011 14:57 Dacendoran wrote: The strat I posted above isnt strictly a push team its a push HEAVY team but by no means do you have to push to beat a team unless maybe they have a SW/chronos FA/Silo and defiler should be able to outcarry any hero they have with the exception of a few super hard carries (all of this assumes 212) if they 3/1/1 you could always swap out the tempest for behe or mag as a last pick (since an early tempest pickup just warrants vindi anyways) I dunno why pharoh isnt picked more often in games hes such a good hero and pretty easy to play. He's not picked because he's always banned lol | ||
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Butigroove
Seychelles2061 Posts
poke and i were gonna go hard | ||
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paper
13197 Posts
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