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In dota where animations matter a lot more the 2nd method is MOSTLY the best method in addition of knowing when to use stop spam.
Using attack command and left click insures you never move your hero unnecessarily and is the same motion you use to deny anyway so it puts you in a good rhythm. However, there are times when you are clearing a creep wave either by yourself or with other laners and you have to use a+click then immediately right click the next creep so you hit the timing. Shift click works later when you have lots of damage but there are times where spamming right click is simply faster than a+click.
Knowing when to S stop is a whole different discussion because against heroes like potm or playing as am etc, adds a psychological element as well as keeping your hero completely stationary since a+click or right click you are moving left and right 90% of the time. Basically knowing when to s stop, a click, and right click come with time and experience but most pro players know that a+click and s spam is the majority of the time the best method.
Whether they choose to do this or not is personal preference. Last hitting analysis doesn't just boil down to how you execute it. There's mind games, mechanics, and variable factors like who is in your lane, how good is their animation compared to yours etc.. Some of the best last hitters in the history of dota mix it up all the time and change their play based on what hero they have: LoH, Remstar, FocusIRE, etc...
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On April 26 2011 17:17 BlueRoyaL wrote:
ohh wait, so is it something that i have to do really fast? does it have to be perfectly timed?
You basically have to finish channeling the ult before the TP finishes its own channeling.
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This has to be the most frustrating game to get into I have ever played.
Simple concepts like the fact that pebbles initiates is lost on the majority of people and then they end up blaming the Andromeda for their failures.
I suck at this game because I'm really new and all but the lack of BASIC BASIC knowledge is so lost on some people it makes me want to cry.
Seriously...pebbles won't jump in because he doesn't have enough armor. Ugh. Ugh.... It's hard to learn anything when shit doesn't go right.
I am wondering if I should keep playing support to get into it or go for Hag or something. Still going back and forth on it.
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On April 27 2011 03:20 Jayme wrote:
This has to be the most frustrating game to get into I have ever played.
Simple concepts like the fact that pebbles initiates is lost on the majority of people and then they end up blaming the Andromeda for their failures.
I suck at this game because I'm really new and all but the lack of BASIC BASIC knowledge is so lost on some people it makes me want to cry.
Seriously...pebbles won't jump in because he doesn't have enough armor. Ugh. Ugh.... It's hard to learn anything when shit doesn't go right.
I am wondering if I should keep playing support to get into it or go for Hag or something. Still going back and forth on it.
Hag is a really good hero to learn for solo purposes. Very good hero.
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On April 27 2011 03:20 Jayme wrote:
This has to be the most frustrating game to get into I have ever played.
Simple concepts like the fact that pebbles initiates is lost on the majority of people and then they end up blaming the Andromeda for their failures.
I suck at this game because I'm really new and all but the lack of BASIC BASIC knowledge is so lost on some people it makes me want to cry.
Seriously...pebbles won't jump in because he doesn't have enough armor. Ugh. Ugh.... It's hard to learn anything when shit doesn't go right.
I am wondering if I should keep playing support to get into it or go for Hag or something. Still going back and forth on it.
On some other forum a guy is posting exact same thing, but with "pebbles" and "andromeda" swapped around.
Regardless, pubs CAN and WILL fail, especially at lower ratings. You have to elevate your play to a degree where you seperate yourself from the average players and reach a point where your teammates aren't as bad.
Also TMM would probably make things much less frustrating if you can find a couple of sane and tolerable teammates. What I'm trying to say is, expect nothing from pubs or don't play with them.
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On April 27 2011 02:58 Risen wrote:
You may notice, but it's possible you notice too late, or your hero initiates a turn that puts you at a disadvantage. Sometimes your turn rate won't be enough to duck that arrow that's coming in if you've misclicked. Small things like this can wreck you.
That just means you already lost the lane. Edit: I should clarify that if you are doing things like that, which should never happen, that means you aren't comfortable in the lane and probably nervous. That really only happens and matters when you already stuck yourself too far out.
I have moved away from spamming S unless I am comfortable with the player playing opposite of me and will never do that in a dual/tri lane unless I am 100% sure I can pick up a wagon. The reason old school players do it (depending on how old) is because their lanes were generally pretty uneventful and everyone knew everyone.
The problem with spamming S is that players/teams can abuse you more, especially random players, I see you spamming S to last hit, I am gonna control the creep wave that much more effectively namely because I know you couldn't be priming a stun (like have the targeting up) and you're not gonna switch to harass in those brief moments.
That said, I use S spam to screw with last hits and throw off player tempos more than I use to last hit now.
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On April 27 2011 03:44 Alur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 03:20 Jayme wrote:
This has to be the most frustrating game to get into I have ever played.
Simple concepts like the fact that pebbles initiates is lost on the majority of people and then they end up blaming the Andromeda for their failures.
I suck at this game because I'm really new and all but the lack of BASIC BASIC knowledge is so lost on some people it makes me want to cry.
Seriously...pebbles won't jump in because he doesn't have enough armor. Ugh. Ugh.... It's hard to learn anything when shit doesn't go right.
I am wondering if I should keep playing support to get into it or go for Hag or something. Still going back and forth on it. On some other forum a guy is posting exact same thing, but with "pebbles" and "andromeda" swapped around. Regardless, pubs CAN and WILL fail, especially at lower ratings. You have to elevate your play to a degree where you seperate yourself from the average players and reach a point where your teammates aren't as bad. Also TMM would probably make things much less frustrating if you can find a couple of sane and tolerable teammates. What I'm trying to say is, expect nothing from pubs or don't play with them.
I understand that but yea I figure it's just a matter of bashing your head against the wall until you can basically carry yourself to higher ratings. I knew from the beginning that pubs will fail terribly but the depth of that failure is amazing. You are stuck with pubs until ...as you said I can elevate my play to not be stuck with fail all day long.
It will be awhile.
New hag alt avatar is amazing btw.
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Wauw those game vs Druidz were pretty pathetic. Oh well, grand final in a tournament without prizes.
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I was thinking of starting to play HoN a bit, so I'm wondering about what heroes would be good for a newbie. The two heroes I found most interest in was Plague Rider and Myrmidon. Are those good to start with? Or should I pick another?
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Myrmidon is a great hero to start with, but I think it's better for a new player to play everything at first.
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On April 27 2011 04:42 Jayme wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 03:44 Alur wrote:On April 27 2011 03:20 Jayme wrote:
This has to be the most frustrating game to get into I have ever played.
Simple concepts like the fact that pebbles initiates is lost on the majority of people and then they end up blaming the Andromeda for their failures.
I suck at this game because I'm really new and all but the lack of BASIC BASIC knowledge is so lost on some people it makes me want to cry.
Seriously...pebbles won't jump in because he doesn't have enough armor. Ugh. Ugh.... It's hard to learn anything when shit doesn't go right.
I am wondering if I should keep playing support to get into it or go for Hag or something. Still going back and forth on it. On some other forum a guy is posting exact same thing, but with "pebbles" and "andromeda" swapped around. Regardless, pubs CAN and WILL fail, especially at lower ratings. You have to elevate your play to a degree where you seperate yourself from the average players and reach a point where your teammates aren't as bad. Also TMM would probably make things much less frustrating if you can find a couple of sane and tolerable teammates. What I'm trying to say is, expect nothing from pubs or don't play with them. I understand that but yea I figure it's just a matter of bashing your head against the wall until you can basically carry yourself to higher ratings. I knew from the beginning that pubs will fail terribly but the depth of that failure is amazing. You are stuck with pubs until ...as you said I can elevate my play to not be stuck with fail all day long...
Not sure how this "carry yourself until you have higher rating and therefore decent teammates" perception came from. You will never get to a point in pubs where your teammates play how you think they should.
The majority of people are bad and you have to deal with it. Those who aren't bad (either relative to you or just terrible) may not even play the way you expect. That's not to say they're playing poorly; they have different tactics at any point in the game.
What you should be learning in pubs and what will serve you throughout your non-competitive HoN is reacting. You need to be able to react quickly and properly in any given situation. When your teammate decides to intiate, even if you don't think it's optimal, you need to immediately assess the situation and decide what you should do. Sometimes that involves cutting your loses by leaving your teammate to die when he initiates poorly in a 1500 MMR pub. Sometimes that involves going in yourself even if you're not in the perfect position. Sometimes you go halfway and return temporarily to stun and get your dumb teammate out.
What's even better than reacting after the fact is to preemptively prepare for situations. You should be watching what your teammates are doing and thinking about what they might do. "If my teammate decides to initiate right now, am I in a good position?" or "If I initiate now, is my teammate close enough to use his skills?" Port keying into four guys and getting them all in your tempest ult may be a terrible play if your team isn't close enough to do anything.
The nature of pubs is that you will always have randoms on your team. You will not know how those randoms play. You need to be flexible with your play and not some rigid noob who thinks he knows best.
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On April 27 2011 04:56 Rawr wrote:
I was thinking of starting to play HoN a bit, so I'm wondering about what heroes would be good for a newbie. The two heroes I found most interest in was Plague Rider and Myrmidon. Are those good to start with? Or should I pick another?
Plague rider is a great starting hero. Myrmidon is good too except you need to practice using his skills together. You should jump into practice mode and try out every hero just to see what their abilities do because knowing what your opponents are capable of is pretty crucial.
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Yes there are optimal reactions to non-optimal plays from your allies.
However there's a difference between your allies knowing who to initiate with and the subtle spacing games.
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On April 27 2011 05:11 Durak wrote:
Not sure how this "carry yourself until you have higher rating and therefore decent teammates" perception came from. You will never get to a point in pubs where your teammates play how you think they should.
The majority of people are bad and you have to deal with it. Those who aren't bad (either relative to you or just terrible) may not even play the way you expect. That's not to say they're playing poorly; they have different tactics at any point in the game.
What you should be learning in pubs and what will serve you throughout your non-competitive HoN is reacting. You need to be able to react quickly and properly in any given situation. When your teammate decides to intiate, even if you don't think it's optimal, you need to immediately assess the situation and decide what you should do. Sometimes that involves cutting your loses by leaving your teammate to die when he initiates poorly in a 1500 MMR pub. Sometimes that involves going in yourself even if you're not in the perfect position. Sometimes you go halfway and return temporarily to stun and get your dumb teammate out.
What's even better than reacting after the fact is to preemptively prepare for situations. You should be watching what your teammates are doing and thinking about what they might do. "If my teammate decides to initiate right now, am I in a good position?" or "If I initiate now, is my teammate close enough to use his skills?" Port keying into four guys and getting them all in your tempest ult may be a terrible play if your team isn't close enough to do anything.
The nature of pubs is that you will always have randoms on your team. You will not know how those randoms play. You need to be flexible with your play and not some rigid noob who thinks he knows best.
This is a great way to pick up some of the shittiest habits in HoN or DotA. Play how you're suppose to play, screw the pubs, and understand why you adapt and how you would have played that differently if they weren't terribads. The latter is more important than trying to react to dumb shit, why? Because it puts you in terrible situations that you had 0 business being in.
Edit:
The reason I say this is because when I pub in DotA, and when some of the dumbest shit works and watch my dumbfuck teammates celebrate because they're doing well, I just think of the "positive" reinforcement they just had and how the stupidity is being celebrated.
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On April 27 2011 05:14 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Yes there are optimal reactions to non-optimal plays from your allies.
However there's a difference between your allies knowing who to initiate with and the subtle spacing games.
There isn't a difference. You're always changing your play based on how your teammates are playing. If your behemoth can't get a perfect ult off to start a teamfight, you start teamfights differently.
You adapt to how the game is being played. That's how you win pubs.
Edit:
On April 27 2011 05:15 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 05:11 Durak wrote:
Not sure how this "carry yourself until you have higher rating and therefore decent teammates" perception came from. You will never get to a point in pubs where your teammates play how you think they should.
The majority of people are bad and you have to deal with it. Those who aren't bad (either relative to you or just terrible) may not even play the way you expect. That's not to say they're playing poorly; they have different tactics at any point in the game.
What you should be learning in pubs and what will serve you throughout your non-competitive HoN is reacting. You need to be able to react quickly and properly in any given situation. When your teammate decides to intiate, even if you don't think it's optimal, you need to immediately assess the situation and decide what you should do. Sometimes that involves cutting your loses by leaving your teammate to die when he initiates poorly in a 1500 MMR pub. Sometimes that involves going in yourself even if you're not in the perfect position. Sometimes you go halfway and return temporarily to stun and get your dumb teammate out.
What's even better than reacting after the fact is to preemptively prepare for situations. You should be watching what your teammates are doing and thinking about what they might do. "If my teammate decides to initiate right now, am I in a good position?" or "If I initiate now, is my teammate close enough to use his skills?" Port keying into four guys and getting them all in your tempest ult may be a terrible play if your team isn't close enough to do anything.
The nature of pubs is that you will always have randoms on your team. You will not know how those randoms play. You need to be flexible with your play and not some rigid noob who thinks he knows best. This is a great way to pick up some of the shittiest habits in HoN or DotA. Play how you're suppose to play, screw the pubs, and understand why you adapt and how you would have played that differently if they weren't terribads. The latter is more important than trying to react to dumb shit, why? Because it puts you in terrible situations that you had 0 business being in.
Understanding the best thing to do in a situation is completely different from what you should do in a pub. You should be playing to win with what you have not whining "oh if only my teammates were better and did this and this -- I wouldn't have died." Blaming your team is how you fail to improve and that's exactly what 90% of HoN players do.
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Of course there is a difference. Adapting is great, learning how to adapt is great, but there is a difference between the two extreme situations I posted. Optimal solo-play isn't optimal team play.
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On April 27 2011 05:18 Durak wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 05:14 Wala.Revolution wrote:
Yes there are optimal reactions to non-optimal plays from your allies.
However there's a difference between your allies knowing who to initiate with and the subtle spacing games. There isn't a difference. You're always changing your play based on how your teammates are playing. If your behemoth can't get a perfect ult off to start a teamfight, you start teamfights differently. You adapt to how the game is being played. That's how you win pubs. Edit: Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 05:15 Judicator wrote:On April 27 2011 05:11 Durak wrote:
Not sure how this "carry yourself until you have higher rating and therefore decent teammates" perception came from. You will never get to a point in pubs where your teammates play how you think they should.
The majority of people are bad and you have to deal with it. Those who aren't bad (either relative to you or just terrible) may not even play the way you expect. That's not to say they're playing poorly; they have different tactics at any point in the game.
What you should be learning in pubs and what will serve you throughout your non-competitive HoN is reacting. You need to be able to react quickly and properly in any given situation. When your teammate decides to intiate, even if you don't think it's optimal, you need to immediately assess the situation and decide what you should do. Sometimes that involves cutting your loses by leaving your teammate to die when he initiates poorly in a 1500 MMR pub. Sometimes that involves going in yourself even if you're not in the perfect position. Sometimes you go halfway and return temporarily to stun and get your dumb teammate out.
What's even better than reacting after the fact is to preemptively prepare for situations. You should be watching what your teammates are doing and thinking about what they might do. "If my teammate decides to initiate right now, am I in a good position?" or "If I initiate now, is my teammate close enough to use his skills?" Port keying into four guys and getting them all in your tempest ult may be a terrible play if your team isn't close enough to do anything.
The nature of pubs is that you will always have randoms on your team. You will not know how those randoms play. You need to be flexible with your play and not some rigid noob who thinks he knows best. This is a great way to pick up some of the shittiest habits in HoN or DotA. Play how you're suppose to play, screw the pubs, and understand why you adapt and how you would have played that differently if they weren't terribads. The latter is more important than trying to react to dumb shit, why? Because it puts you in terrible situations that you had 0 business being in. Understanding the best thing to do in a situation is completely different from what you should do in a pub. You should be playing to win with what you have not whining "oh if only my teammates were better and did this and this -- I wouldn't have died." Blaming your team is how you fail to improve and that's exactly what 90% of HoN players do.
So by adapting to the shittiest players of a game is the way to improve? Really?
It's not whining, its the truth, the sooner a player who isn't braindead and can be honest with themselves about the reality of their situation, the sooner they'll improve. As long as the player trying to improve is honest with themselves when they say "you are all terribads and we're losing cause of X", then the better they'll improve. That's developing the proper situational awareness and game sense/understanding, not some bullshit where you have to play down to their levels because that's "adapting".
Otherwise, you can enjoy hitting that same exact wall at a higher level with some glorified pub stars.
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Hey guys, I noticed that even though there's a TL clan, there doesn't seem to be any TL teams or groups that play MMR together. I'd like to know if 4 other players in TL that speak english and enjoy HoNing are willing to group up and play Matchmaking games (casual/normal).
Solo Matchmaking is tormenting me as half the time I get a full foreign team (usually brazilian) which would be ok but when they don't communicate it's too difficult to play the game. (they also seem to say noob a lot, or try to kick you out of the game every few minutes if you ever get a kill they expected to be theirs) Due to these types of games my MMR rating has been literally going from 1420 to 1620 every few days of gaming.
Basically I'd like to get a team going to fix such issues:
-people understand their roles
-people can say things like 'mid mia, going to bot with haste' or even a 'top 1 ss' or the like (hell, even speaking english is good)
-support characters dont have to be argued with to ward lol
-etc etc, have a good time and instead of raging at randoms, learn/teach
I'm by no means a pro, I'd probably say I'm an average player who's gotten good with probably a quarter of the heroes
If you're interested, let me know. My in game name is DarkPyro. I think I've already played with a few of you.
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On April 27 2011 06:02 Dark.Pyro wrote:
Hey guys, I noticed that even though there's a TL clan, there doesn't seem to be any TL teams or groups that play MMR together. I'd like to know if 4 other players in TL that speak english and enjoy HoNing are willing to group up and play Matchmaking games (casual/normal).
Solo Matchmaking is tormenting me as half the time I get a full foreign team (usually brazilian) which would be ok but when they don't communicate it's too difficult to play the game. (they also seem to say noob a lot, or try to kick you out of the game every few minutes if you ever get a kill they expected to be theirs) Due to these types of games my MMR rating has been literally going from 1420 to 1620 every few days of gaming.
Basically I'd like to get a team going to fix such issues:
-people understand their roles
-people can say things like 'mid mia, going to bot with haste' or even a 'top 1 ss' or the like (hell, even speaking english is good)
-support characters dont have to be argued with to ward lol
-etc etc, have a good time and instead of raging at randoms, learn/teach
I'm by no means a pro, I'd probably say I'm an average player who's gotten good with probably a quarter of the heroes
If you're interested, let me know. My in game name is DarkPyro. I think I've already played with a few of you.
Olá, meu apelido é "Female", mas eu não falo Inglês muito bem. Eu ainda gosto de jogar com algum tempo.
User was warned for this post
Edit:
 I didn't think it needed any translation. The joke was that it was portuguese. I guess mods didn't think it was funny? T_T T_T T_T
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On April 27 2011 07:00 Gummy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 27 2011 06:02 Dark.Pyro wrote:
Hey guys, I noticed that even though there's a TL clan, there doesn't seem to be any TL teams or groups that play MMR together. I'd like to know if 4 other players in TL that speak english and enjoy HoNing are willing to group up and play Matchmaking games (casual/normal).
Solo Matchmaking is tormenting me as half the time I get a full foreign team (usually brazilian) which would be ok but when they don't communicate it's too difficult to play the game. (they also seem to say noob a lot, or try to kick you out of the game every few minutes if you ever get a kill they expected to be theirs) Due to these types of games my MMR rating has been literally going from 1420 to 1620 every few days of gaming.
Basically I'd like to get a team going to fix such issues:
-people understand their roles
-people can say things like 'mid mia, going to bot with haste' or even a 'top 1 ss' or the like (hell, even speaking english is good)
-support characters dont have to be argued with to ward lol
-etc etc, have a good time and instead of raging at randoms, learn/teach
I'm by no means a pro, I'd probably say I'm an average player who's gotten good with probably a quarter of the heroes
If you're interested, let me know. My in game name is DarkPyro. I think I've already played with a few of you. Olá, meu apelido é "Female", mas eu não falo Inglês muito bem. Eu ainda gosto de jogar com algum tempo.
english only boards, post a translation of it or face the wrath of mods
+ Show Spoiler +oh yeah and seriously there are plenty of groups on TL that play hon, you just gotta force your way in
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EPT
