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Okay so Maliken is a douche, no argument.
Ack1027: thanks for describing HoNs method of balance and telling us IceFrog's is exactly the same, but his is vastly superior. Also thanks for telling us about balance issues IN THE FUCKING BETA, which is a while ago now(2 years, actually. But yes, HoN obviously still suffers from balance issues in the beta). Thanks, too, for making yourself look like a retard.
What you're describing Blyadischa is exactly the same as you get when lagging out/losing connection to server. Playing on wireless? Either way I've never encountered getting stuck with a stable connection.. and I've played too many games.
Love your argument of being good at mid and 1shot capabilities = imbalanced. The hero you're looking for is Pebbles, who existed in dota. But I guess he's fucking imbalanced too. Oh and witch slayer(Lion), Pyromancer(Lina).. they're imbalanced too. But they existed in dota! Hmm.....
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On February 04 2011 14:51 Blyadischa wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 14:34 JeeJee wrote:yeah them s2 heroes they so imba all competitive games feature s2 heroes only and not like, 1-2 of them, if that now items on the other hand are a different story edit: On February 04 2011 12:44 Blyadischa wrote:They also haven't fixed pathing. Still getting stuck on buildings, creeps, and sometimes trees.
i keep hearing this but never encountered any huge issues i can only think of one pathing issue that i'd like to see fixed (has to do with spellcasting across impassable terrain), but that's so minor, i can't see how anyone's bothered by it can you give me some specific examples of what u mean? Walking around to defend a rax My hero get stuck on the corner of a rax, I'm oblivious to this because 9 ults just went off. I press c and see my hero no where near where I'm supposed to be. I'm walking to a tower going through some trees, I look over to my teammates in a fight, press c, and my hero is running in place towards trees in the opposite direction of where I sent him. shit like that. Also hate it when I try to cast spells across a mummy wall, but I miss by a tiny bit and so I start running to opposite direction.
never had either one of those happened to me
sounds like misclicks, especially the tree one
how does one even get stuck on a corner of a rax? surely it's reproducible since rax don't move/are always the same. i'll run some laps around them but i doubt i'll get stuck.
which rax and what hero was it?
edit: the third one is obviously misclick as you said yourself. but yeah that's mildly annoying, that's the 'casting across impassable terrain' that i was talking about earlier. most annoying with short-range cast spells but eh.
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On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Okay so Maliken is a douche, no argument.
Ack1027: thanks for describing HoNs method of balance and telling us IceFrog's is exactly the same, but his is vastly superior. Also thanks for telling us about balance issues IN THE FUCKING BETA, which is a while ago now(2 years, actually. But yes, HoN obviously still suffers from balance issues in the beta). Thanks, too, for making yourself look like a retard.
What you're describing Blyadischa is exactly the same as you get when lagging out/losing connection to server. Playing on wireless? Either way I've never encountered getting stuck with a stable connection.. and I've played too many games.
Love your argument of being good at mid and 1shot capabilities = imbalanced. The hero you're looking for is Pebbles, who existed in dota. But I guess he's fucking imbalanced too. Oh and witch slayer(Lion), Pyromancer(Lina).. they're imbalanced too. But they existed in dota! Hmm.....
Rofl at your rage.
S2 has the benefit of DotA having done most of its legwork for it and honestly this is the best that a company can come up? Never mind the whiners, but honestly trying to defend S2 is hilarious at best and ignorant at worst. There's an inherent difference as S2 actually charged money for their game. Do they learn from the balance problems in DotA and try to avoid them in HoN? No.
And rofl at your DotA analogies when each of those heroes were broken at one point in time until Icefrog patched them up. Lina was overnerfed, Tiny was just right, Lion was also the correct tweak after how some teams started using him.
S2 really doesn't have a clue on what they're doing, that isn't to say they're not going to learn or won't improve, but they really didn't do their homework on what made DotA finally popular.
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I think you may have swapped your adjectives there, Judicator, champ.
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i play hon because i wanted dota-esque gameplay with little effort - that is matchmaking and leave-protection.
unfortunately, as has been stated before, s2 games sucks at balancing, their community involvement is laughable at best (an excuse not to have to act professional) and the community even lacks the... class i always felt when playing dota with smart people.
if i could have current dota gameplay on the hon platform, i would switch without hesitation - and if the next few weeks dont provide some balance changes (nerfs of s2 content only) i will probably even play some "classic" dota along with hon again. needless to say i will jump ship to dota2 aswell if the balance issues dont get adressed.
oh, and matchmaking does not really work - it finds you a match, but the system is just frustrating if you are good enough at the game to reach somewhat decent mmr levels. the last three times i wanted to soloplay i just went back to smurfing after waiting for ~10 minutes without any game forming. and 1850/1850/1750/1600/1600-esque teams are not exactly what i expected from matchmaking ("shit").
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On February 05 2011 02:05 Glull wrote:
oh, and matchmaking does not really work - it finds you a match, but the system is just frustrating if you are good enough at the game to reach somewhat decent mmr levels. the last three times i wanted to soloplay i just went back to smurfing after waiting for ~10 minutes without any game forming. and 1850/1850/1750/1600/1600-esque teams are not exactly what i expected from matchmaking ("shit").
That's probably my biggest complaint about matchmaking. It's not any better than PSR-balanced pubs, besides convenience. Sometimes even worse, because at least having a lower psr limit helps make the match not total shit.
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On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Okay so Maliken is a douche, no argument.
So essentially the guy who is part of the leadership is a douche, and also a retard, and likes to call people racial slurs and abuse his powers and position to better his stats. This is the kind of guy you want in charge [ or at least part ] of your game? Icefrog rarely makes public statements, and when he does its about the development of the game. He also congratulates people for winning as seen by loading screens, and he cares a lot about what top tier players have to say. You ever see Maliken doing that? Starting from the very base, it's impossible to even compare Maliken to Icefrog, and therefore you are already admitting that S2 is under inferior leadership.
On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Ack1027: thanks for describing HoNs method of balance and telling us IceFrog's is exactly the same, but his is vastly superior. Also thanks for telling us about balance issues IN THE FUCKING BETA, which is a while ago now(2 years, actually. But yes, HoN obviously still suffers from balance issues in the beta). Thanks, too, for making yourself look like a retard.
HoN's method of balance? You realize that HoN was created after Dota therefore it cannot be HoN's method of balance. Icefrog has pretty much standardized his process and at this point knows what tends to work and what doesn't. Many skill and hero ideas are copied directly over from DotA. Again, this fact already shows that S2 is inferior at creating balanced heroes and ideas. They simply steal and tweak. Also, it doesn't matter how long ago balance issues were present, the fact that they were blatantly present in an obnoxious manner is proof enough that HoN is worse at balancing than Icefrog [ the one person who decides what changes get made ultimately ]. Can you honestly think of a scenario where you would rather have Pebbles than Panda? Panda's skills are exactly like Pebbles except better. Flick > Toss because you can actually choose what you are throwing. In DotA and HoN you cannot choose with pebbles or tiny what to throw. It picks an object in the aoe around you. Not to mention that flick has a slow and reduces armor. Panda's cannon ball does more damage than Pebble's stun, moves Panda himself [ melee ] next to the target. Oh by the way it stuns longer than Pebbles' stun. Comparing Panda's ult to Pebbles? lol... This is just one example. If you can't see why its laughable to have a hero like Pebbles in the game when there's a hero like Panda you're probably not very good at DotA or Hon.
On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Love your argument of being good at mid and 1shot capabilities = imbalanced. The hero you're looking for is Pebbles, who existed in dota. But I guess he's fucking imbalanced too. Oh and witch slayer(Lion), Pyromancer(Lina).. they're imbalanced too. But they existed in dota! Hmm.....
There's this hero called Deadwood who could AoE punch the entire team with his ulti. There has never been a hero in DotA who could Stun and lower the strength and movespeed of one hero, while applying a % of his damage in a cone, therefore being able to potentially hit the entire team. The fact that this even passed alpha stages of hero testing shows you how incapable HoN testers are vs Icefrog. Also, rotten grasp? Stolen form Pit Lord's pit of malice. Oh yeah except Rotten grasp stuns for an entire second longer, costs less mana, reduces armor, and does 100 damage a second.
lol.
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On February 05 2011 02:56 Ack1027 wrote:Can you honestly think of a scenario where you would rather have Pebbles than Panda?
Yes? Pebbles is a reliable burst damage ganker. Panda is a semi-carry with less burst. They're absolutely not interchangable.
I thought you were making a reasonable argument before that.
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On February 05 2011 02:56 Ack1027 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Okay so Maliken is a douche, no argument.
So essentially the guy who is part of the leadership is a douche, and also a retard, and likes to call people racial slurs and abuse his powers and position to better his stats. This is the kind of guy you want in charge [ or at least part ] of your game? Icefrog rarely makes public statements, and when he does its about the development of the game. He also congratulates people for winning as seen by loading screens, and he cares a lot about what top tier players have to say. You ever see Maliken doing that? Starting from the very base, it's impossible to even compare Maliken to Icefrog, and therefore you are already admitting that S2 is under inferior leadership. Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Ack1027: thanks for describing HoNs method of balance and telling us IceFrog's is exactly the same, but his is vastly superior. Also thanks for telling us about balance issues IN THE FUCKING BETA, which is a while ago now(2 years, actually. But yes, HoN obviously still suffers from balance issues in the beta). Thanks, too, for making yourself look like a retard. HoN's method of balance? You realize that HoN was created after Dota therefore it cannot be HoN's method of balance. Icefrog has pretty much standardized his process and at this point knows what tends to work and what doesn't. Many skill and hero ideas are copied directly over from DotA. Again, this fact already shows that S2 is inferior at creating balanced heroes and ideas. They simply steal and tweak. Also, it doesn't matter how long ago balance issues were present, the fact that they were blatantly present in an obnoxious manner is proof enough that HoN is worse at balancing than Icefrog [ the one person who decides what changes get made ultimately ]. Can you honestly think of a scenario where you would rather have Pebbles than Panda? Panda's skills are exactly like Pebbles except better. Flick > Toss because you can actually choose what you are throwing. In DotA and HoN you cannot choose with pebbles or tiny what to throw. It picks an object in the aoe around you. Not to mention that flick has a slow and reduces armor. Panda's cannon ball does more damage than Pebble's stun, moves Panda himself [ melee ] next to the target. Oh by the way it stuns longer than Pebbles' stun. Comparing Panda's ult to Pebbles? lol... This is just one example. If you can't see why its laughable to have a hero like Pebbles in the game when there's a hero like Panda you're probably not very good at DotA or Hon. Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Love your argument of being good at mid and 1shot capabilities = imbalanced. The hero you're looking for is Pebbles, who existed in dota. But I guess he's fucking imbalanced too. Oh and witch slayer(Lion), Pyromancer(Lina).. they're imbalanced too. But they existed in dota! Hmm..... There's this hero called Deadwood who could AoE punch the entire team with his ulti. There has never been a hero in DotA who could Stun and lower the strength and movespeed of one hero, while applying a % of his damage in a cone, therefore being able to potentially hit the entire team. The fact that this even passed alpha stages of hero testing shows you how incapable HoN testers are vs Icefrog. Also, rotten grasp? Stolen form Pit Lord's pit of malice. Oh yeah except Rotten grasp stuns for an entire second longer, costs less mana, reduces armor, and does 100 damage a second. lol.
pebbles is actually one of the best heros in the game at the moment. panda is rarely picked or banned because he's pretty hard to use correctly and really easy to counter.
deadwood fills a similar role to pebbles but is better at escaping and worse at team fights (i had no idea his ult could hit more than one person wtf). also scales worse in late game mostly due to lack of spellshards. his aoe thing has a fairly substantial delay after cast so it's hard to land without ulting them first.
if you have pebbles in the game i don't see anything wrong with having deadwood/gauntlet. when these heros are in the game soloing mid your team just needs to play differently o.0. sorta like how you would play vs NA (in 6.49b era - not sure if they nerfed him yet) cept you dont need wards/dust.
the only questionable s2 hero right now is dampeer imho (and maybe add a slight delay to bombadier's ult).
and why do we care how professional the admins act as long as they make a baller ass game?
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Vatican City State1872 Posts
On February 05 2011 02:56 Ack1027 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Okay so Maliken is a douche, no argument.
So essentially the guy who is part of the leadership is a douche, and also a retard, and likes to call people racial slurs and abuse his powers and position to better his stats. This is the kind of guy you want in charge [ or at least part ] of your game? Icefrog rarely makes public statements, and when he does its about the development of the game. He also congratulates people for winning as seen by loading screens, and he cares a lot about what top tier players have to say. You ever see Maliken doing that? Starting from the very base, it's impossible to even compare Maliken to Icefrog, and therefore you are already admitting that S2 is under inferior leadership. Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Ack1027: thanks for describing HoNs method of balance and telling us IceFrog's is exactly the same, but his is vastly superior. Also thanks for telling us about balance issues IN THE FUCKING BETA, which is a while ago now(2 years, actually. But yes, HoN obviously still suffers from balance issues in the beta). Thanks, too, for making yourself look like a retard. HoN's method of balance? You realize that HoN was created after Dota therefore it cannot be HoN's method of balance. Icefrog has pretty much standardized his process and at this point knows what tends to work and what doesn't. Many skill and hero ideas are copied directly over from DotA. Again, this fact already shows that S2 is inferior at creating balanced heroes and ideas. They simply steal and tweak. Also, it doesn't matter how long ago balance issues were present, the fact that they were blatantly present in an obnoxious manner is proof enough that HoN is worse at balancing than Icefrog [ the one person who decides what changes get made ultimately ]. Can you honestly think of a scenario where you would rather have Pebbles than Panda? Panda's skills are exactly like Pebbles except better. Flick > Toss because you can actually choose what you are throwing. In DotA and HoN you cannot choose with pebbles or tiny what to throw. It picks an object in the aoe around you. Not to mention that flick has a slow and reduces armor. Panda's cannon ball does more damage than Pebble's stun, moves Panda himself [ melee ] next to the target. Oh by the way it stuns longer than Pebbles' stun. Comparing Panda's ult to Pebbles? lol... This is just one example. If you can't see why its laughable to have a hero like Pebbles in the game when there's a hero like Panda you're probably not very good at DotA or Hon. Show nested quote +On February 04 2011 18:32 Ethenielle wrote:
Love your argument of being good at mid and 1shot capabilities = imbalanced. The hero you're looking for is Pebbles, who existed in dota. But I guess he's fucking imbalanced too. Oh and witch slayer(Lion), Pyromancer(Lina).. they're imbalanced too. But they existed in dota! Hmm..... There's this hero called Deadwood who could AoE punch the entire team with his ulti. There has never been a hero in DotA who could Stun and lower the strength and movespeed of one hero, while applying a % of his damage in a cone, therefore being able to potentially hit the entire team. The fact that this even passed alpha stages of hero testing shows you how incapable HoN testers are vs Icefrog. Also, rotten grasp? Stolen form Pit Lord's pit of malice. Oh yeah except Rotten grasp stuns for an entire second longer, costs less mana, reduces armor, and does 100 damage a second. lol.
wow you're an idiot
lol, i no longer care to read any of your arguments regarding hon/dota after reading that
User was warned for this post
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I played in beta and 2 months in after release so that's where its coming from. Its cool if heroes got balanced or panda is better than pebbles now [ after patches or gameplay changes most likely ] but I think there's a reason people like Chu had panda as one of their top 5 most played [ when I played ]. My point is that if you make heroes like that into the game you've already failed as a balancer...
Deadwood was able to hit everyone behind his ult's target in a cone of damage.
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lol ack
those comparisons make no sense
that's seriously akin to me saying that lion is always >> lina because they both have aoe stuns, but lion's hex scales way better than her wave and is always useful. and their ult is basically the same so lion is just a good lina, so wtf is lion doing in the game?
see a problem with that?
similarly, rotten grasp and pit of malice are nothing alike
just like cannonball and avalanche or flick and toss
they're completely different skills that serve different purposes
and yeah, there's never been a hero in dota that has dw's ult. so?
there's never been an astral trekker or a death ward sa in hon. problem?
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panda + deadwood on one guy would hurt
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i think they make the new heros imba when they first come out purposely, similar to what icefrog did.
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huskar was never imba
i wish he was though
and i still wish naix open wounds wasnt nerfed so hard
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On February 05 2011 04:17 JeeJee wrote:
lol ack
those comparisons make no sense
that's seriously akin to me saying that lion is always >> lina because they both have aoe stuns, but lion's hex scales way better than her wave and is always useful. and their ult is basically the same so lion is just a good lina, so wtf is lion doing in the game?
see a problem with that?
similarly, rotten grasp and pit of malice are nothing alike
just like cannonball and avalanche or flick and toss
they're completely different skills that serve different purposes
and yeah, there's never been a hero in dota that has dw's ult. so?
there's never been an astral trekker or a death ward sa in hon. problem?
Lion: Line stun that you can single target select, Hex, Mana steal, Target nuke.
Lina: Aoe stun, Aoe wave damage, MS/AS boost, Target nuke.
Their ulti is the only skill that overlaps.
Pebbles: Aoe stun, Displacement spell with AOE damage, Armor buff debuff helper, Give up attack speed to do more damage.
Panda: Aoe stun + melee range, Displacement spell with -Armor, slow, and target ability, Spammable physical attack, Give up attack speed to do more damage.
Lion is used competitively while Lina is not[currently]. It's similar to what others are saying. Lina and lion have both been used competitively during dota. Panda and pebbles have both been used competitively during HoN. The point that STILL seems to elude people are that you have to fix those things. Where lion and lina have both undergone many changes, panda with pebbles has not seen many changes. Without these changes Pebbles will continued to be used over Panda a very similar hero. This is considering HoN has way less heroes to begin with anyway. They shouldn't be running into this problem already.
Rotten grasp and pit of malice are very alike in that they are both aoe holds that you can cast from melee heroes. They are both str heroes and they both have delay on their spells [ although I guess deadwoods is a bit longer ]
Why is it that chipper, deadwood, forsaken archer [ s2 heroes ] were the best solos when they were introduced? Yes icefrog does the same with heroes like Batrider and kunkka but he also makes other roles.
Also striders and chalice.
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On February 05 2011 04:37 Ack1027 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 04:17 JeeJee wrote:
lol ack
those comparisons make no sense
that's seriously akin to me saying that lion is always >> lina because they both have aoe stuns, but lion's hex scales way better than her wave and is always useful. and their ult is basically the same so lion is just a good lina, so wtf is lion doing in the game?
see a problem with that?
similarly, rotten grasp and pit of malice are nothing alike
just like cannonball and avalanche or flick and toss
they're completely different skills that serve different purposes
and yeah, there's never been a hero in dota that has dw's ult. so?
there's never been an astral trekker or a death ward sa in hon. problem? Lion: Line stun that you can single target select, Hex, Mana steal, Target nuke. Lina: Aoe stun, Aoe wave damage, MS/AS boost, Target nuke. Their ulti is the only skill that overlaps. Pebbles: Aoe stun, Displacement spell with AOE damage, Armor buff debuff helper, Give up attack speed to do more damage. Panda: Aoe stun + melee range, Displacement spell with -Armor, slow, and target ability, Spammable physical attack, Give up attack speed to do more damage. Lion is used competitively while Lina is not[currently]. It's similar to what others are saying. Lina and lion have both been used competitively during dota. Panda and pebbles have both been used competitively during HoN. The point that STILL seems to elude people are that you have to fix those things. Where lion and lina have both undergone many changes, panda with pebbles has not seen many changes. Without these changes Pebbles will continued to be used over Panda a very similar hero. This is considering HoN has way less heroes to begin with anyway. They shouldn't be running into this problem already. Rotten grasp and pit of malice are very alike in that they are both aoe holds that you can cast from melee heroes. Why is it that chipper, deadwood, forsaken archer [ s2 heroes ] were the best solos when they were introduced? Yes icefrog does the same with heroes like Batrider and kunkka but he also makes other roles. Also striders and chalice.
because when you've brought over almost every single important dota support there is there isn't any point to making new support heroes. you've already got it good. especially when you put striders and chalice on them holy shit
+ Show Spoiler +on a more serious note wretched hag
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On February 05 2011 04:37 Ack1027 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 05 2011 04:17 JeeJee wrote:
lol ack
those comparisons make no sense
that's seriously akin to me saying that lion is always >> lina because they both have aoe stuns, but lion's hex scales way better than her wave and is always useful. and their ult is basically the same so lion is just a good lina, so wtf is lion doing in the game?
see a problem with that?
similarly, rotten grasp and pit of malice are nothing alike
just like cannonball and avalanche or flick and toss
they're completely different skills that serve different purposes
and yeah, there's never been a hero in dota that has dw's ult. so?
there's never been an astral trekker or a death ward sa in hon. problem? Lion: Line stun that you can single target select, Hex, Mana steal, Target nuke. Lina: Aoe stun, Aoe wave damage, MS/AS boost, Target nuke. Their ulti is the only skill that overlaps. Pebbles: Aoe stun, Displacement spell with AOE damage, Armor buff debuff helper, Give up attack speed to do more damage. Panda: Aoe stun + melee range, Displacement spell with -Armor, slow, and target ability, Spammable physical attack, Give up attack speed to do more damage. Lion is used competitively while Lina is not[currently]. It's similar to what others are saying. Lina and lion have both been used competitively during dota. Panda and pebbles have both been used competitively during HoN. The point that STILL seems to elude people are that you have to fix those things. Where lion and lina have both undergone many changes, panda with pebbles has not seen many changes. Without these changes Pebbles will continued to be used over Panda a very similar hero. This is considering HoN has way less heroes to begin with anyway. They shouldn't be running into this problem already. Rotten grasp and pit of malice are very alike in that they are both aoe holds that you can cast from melee heroes. They are both str heroes and they both have delay on their spells [ although I guess deadwoods is a bit longer ] Why is it that chipper, deadwood, forsaken archer [ s2 heroes ] were the best solos when they were introduced? Yes icefrog does the same with heroes like Batrider and kunkka but he also makes other roles. Also striders and chalice.
line stun IS aoe stun, and hex is better than wave (certainly scales better). the only difference is manadrain versus as/ms boost, the effectiveness of both is pretty slim. in other words, lion > lina.
how you equate panda and pebble skills i still don't see
flurry and tiny's armor i'm sure are totally different
cannonball has a longer impact time and a crippling slow on whiff. much unlike tiny's ava
likewise, flick is like a self-target-toss with debuff. doesn't have nearly the versatility of toss
and how you equated their ults makes no sense. passive vs channeled ult? in the words of the virgin mary, come again?
yeah s2 also makes other heroes too y'know. i don't see myrm or whoever running mid and raping heroes
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A line is not the same as a circle...I don't know what else to say.
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EPT
