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the games I watched from the tournament were fun. Especially banelingbombs from behind were fun to watch by Parting against Kiwian.
It seems a bit like some players just had one good build for each map and they played the heck out of it. Kiwian with the double lancers against Parting, and Parting with the drop play strat. But watch them adapt and react to each other was great. The play with the spawning broodlings is very strong and especially the drops can get out of hand very fast.
I heard Lucifron say on his stream that he had never played against Parting on ladder (different servers, I guess). So maybe Vortix also never played against Parting on ladder. I don't know.
There was some drama when they ruled a regame but after further examination ruled again that vortix won the first game, because the bug didnt win him the game (if I understood the ruling correctly). He used a bug (his units landed outside the walkable map behind a mine and attacked workers.), but by mistake. Twitch chat went crazy, but thankfully there is a button to close the chat.
all in all fun. I like Stormgate much more than the other new RTS games.
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Well, I just watched the finals of that tournament. It was my first experience with stormgate gameplay other than the showmatches, and I was not impressed.
(1) when your game is more difficult to figure out what is going on and who is ahead than a DotA cast, you've done something wrong.
(2) it seems utterly unforgiveable. Or maybe that was just Vortix. But he did one thing that didn't quite work out the way he wanted, and he gg'd out. Didn't even try to hang in there and play it out in game 8. If that was not Idra gg timing, the game really needs some work in comeback mechanics.
(3) I know it's beta, and this is something they can still work on, but it is visually bland. All the t1 infernal units are samesy, just different sizes. Maps also seemed bland. SC2, a 13-year-old game, has better graphics.
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After watching the tournament, I feel like this game already kind of rivals SC2. It's probably going to blow it out of the water as development continues.
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A good note from Frost Giant on reddit:
I'd like to add that Stormgate is not a marketing beta -- the game is far from final and we are still working on foundational gameplay design, features, art, sound, and story content. Then there's the editor we're planning to put into players hands. At this point in Wings of Liberty's development, for comparison's sake, the game wouldn't even be announced for another three years. We already have a playable beta in players' hands. You wouldn't see the Wings beta for another 5 years or so.
If you're comparing our beta to a beta test for an almost-finished game, they're completely different things. We are actively developing the game with our playtesters and their valuable feedback is part of why the game has gotten this far along in such a short time.
We are early and have a lot of work left to go, but we are excited to see how quickly the team is making progress with each new build. Art is one of the most-impacted disciplines as most game teams and publishers do not show the public unfinished work. We are making our game hand-in-hand with the RTS community and showing people our process and what we're up to--please expect everything in the game to continue to be worked on for months (and years) to come, with all the care and passion that this team can muster.
Thanks for being part of this journey with us!
From here: /r/stormgate
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They really just shouldn't have called it a beta, I'm not sure why they decided to market it as such. It's a feature incomplete alpha build.
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Mexico2170 Posts
On February 19 2024 09:31 SoleSteeler wrote:A good note from Frost Giant on reddit: Show nested quote +I'd like to add that Stormgate is not a marketing beta -- the game is far from final and we are still working on foundational gameplay design, features, art, sound, and story content. Then there's the editor we're planning to put into players hands. At this point in Wings of Liberty's development, for comparison's sake, the game wouldn't even be announced for another three years. We already have a playable beta in players' hands. You wouldn't see the Wings beta for another 5 years or so.
If you're comparing our beta to a beta test for an almost-finished game, they're completely different things. We are actively developing the game with our playtesters and their valuable feedback is part of why the game has gotten this far along in such a short time.
We are early and have a lot of work left to go, but we are excited to see how quickly the team is making progress with each new build. Art is one of the most-impacted disciplines as most game teams and publishers do not show the public unfinished work. We are making our game hand-in-hand with the RTS community and showing people our process and what we're up to--please expect everything in the game to continue to be worked on for months (and years) to come, with all the care and passion that this team can muster.
Thanks for being part of this journey with us! From here: /r/stormgate
They compare it to sc2 3 years before announcement and 5 befor release but this game is not realeasing in 5 years, it's releasing this year right?
The game looks grapphically very bland and that doesn't work in it's favour, and it seems 1 of the 2 factions shown still needs a lot of work, and they havent shown the third I guess because it's lacking even more.
I would focus on 2 races, then release the third one later and improving the unit interaction, graphics and having something else to do because it's cool tghat it has a low skill floor, buteven when you compare something like sc2 to league of legends where league is "easier", there is still a lot to do, a very high skill cap etc.
In storm gate it ffeels like there are point were you do 1 thing and you have some extra apm athat you can't really use for something meaningful
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It's genre redefining; expect the whole greek alphabet of tests! Plenty of time until the 2029 release...(Very much agreed, cha0)
I enjoyed watching a bit of the tournament. The observer interface is just not ready to accommodate clueless first time viewers.
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It might not be impossible for Blizzard to assemble an RTS dev team again and announce Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4 before 2029, if any RTS game within the next few years manage to become sufficiently commercially successful, like if Tempest Rising sells at least as much as C&C3, for example.
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Northern Ireland27228 Posts
On February 19 2024 09:31 SoleSteeler wrote:A good note from Frost Giant on reddit: Show nested quote +I'd like to add that Stormgate is not a marketing beta -- the game is far from final and we are still working on foundational gameplay design, features, art, sound, and story content. Then there's the editor we're planning to put into players hands. At this point in Wings of Liberty's development, for comparison's sake, the game wouldn't even be announced for another three years. We already have a playable beta in players' hands. You wouldn't see the Wings beta for another 5 years or so.
If you're comparing our beta to a beta test for an almost-finished game, they're completely different things. We are actively developing the game with our playtesters and their valuable feedback is part of why the game has gotten this far along in such a short time.
We are early and have a lot of work left to go, but we are excited to see how quickly the team is making progress with each new build. Art is one of the most-impacted disciplines as most game teams and publishers do not show the public unfinished work. We are making our game hand-in-hand with the RTS community and showing people our process and what we're up to--please expect everything in the game to continue to be worked on for months (and years) to come, with all the care and passion that this team can muster.
Thanks for being part of this journey with us! From here: /r/stormgate
Reasonable but it begs the question of the wisdom on dropping money on running an eSports event. I’m presuming they provided the funds, if I’m wrong folks feel free to correct me.
Like the tech trees aren’t really fleshed, the maps aren’t too great and the observer UI is terrible.
I don’t expect these things for an effective alpha build, sure. Equally it kind of means trying to do the whole razzmatazz of an eSports event falls a bit flat.
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On February 17 2024 08:15 LunarC wrote:
So can any of these games move beyond SC2? It's fast turning into army blob vs. army blob again. Why can't any of these games design their systems to produce multi-screen spanning battles on multiple fronts like Brood War regularly produced? I guess why do these games always revert to blob v. blob? Can the mechanisms ever be designed to revert to clashes on multiple fronts instead? Is there a solution besides a unit selection cap?
Easy solutions:
Just make a lot of AoE and make it really strong
Make a blob move slower the bigger it is (logistics are hard!) or give a speed bonus to smaller armies
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On February 19 2024 14:54 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2024 09:31 SoleSteeler wrote:A good note from Frost Giant on reddit: I'd like to add that Stormgate is not a marketing beta -- the game is far from final and we are still working on foundational gameplay design, features, art, sound, and story content. Then there's the editor we're planning to put into players hands. At this point in Wings of Liberty's development, for comparison's sake, the game wouldn't even be announced for another three years. We already have a playable beta in players' hands. You wouldn't see the Wings beta for another 5 years or so.
If you're comparing our beta to a beta test for an almost-finished game, they're completely different things. We are actively developing the game with our playtesters and their valuable feedback is part of why the game has gotten this far along in such a short time.
We are early and have a lot of work left to go, but we are excited to see how quickly the team is making progress with each new build. Art is one of the most-impacted disciplines as most game teams and publishers do not show the public unfinished work. We are making our game hand-in-hand with the RTS community and showing people our process and what we're up to--please expect everything in the game to continue to be worked on for months (and years) to come, with all the care and passion that this team can muster.
Thanks for being part of this journey with us! From here: /r/stormgate They compare it to sc2 3 years before announcement and 5 befor release but this game is not realeasing in 5 years, it's releasing this year right? The game looks grapphically very bland and that doesn't work in it's favour, and it seems 1 of the 2 factions shown still needs a lot of work, and they havent shown the third I guess because it's lacking even more. I would focus on 2 races, then release the third one later and improving the unit interaction, graphics and having something else to do because it's cool tghat it has a low skill floor, buteven when you compare something like sc2 to league of legends where league is "easier", there is still a lot to do, a very high skill cap etc. In storm gate it ffeels like there are point were you do 1 thing and you have some extra apm athat you can't really use for something meaningful
I agree with this. I also wouldn't focus on "extending" things yet. Extend ensure the micro interactions work well and have a proper skill cap. This will require several larger reworks and perhaps some changes to pathing.
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On February 19 2024 14:54 [Phantom] wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2024 09:31 SoleSteeler wrote:A good note from Frost Giant on reddit: I'd like to add that Stormgate is not a marketing beta -- the game is far from final and we are still working on foundational gameplay design, features, art, sound, and story content. Then there's the editor we're planning to put into players hands. At this point in Wings of Liberty's development, for comparison's sake, the game wouldn't even be announced for another three years. We already have a playable beta in players' hands. You wouldn't see the Wings beta for another 5 years or so.
If you're comparing our beta to a beta test for an almost-finished game, they're completely different things. We are actively developing the game with our playtesters and their valuable feedback is part of why the game has gotten this far along in such a short time.
We are early and have a lot of work left to go, but we are excited to see how quickly the team is making progress with each new build. Art is one of the most-impacted disciplines as most game teams and publishers do not show the public unfinished work. We are making our game hand-in-hand with the RTS community and showing people our process and what we're up to--please expect everything in the game to continue to be worked on for months (and years) to come, with all the care and passion that this team can muster.
Thanks for being part of this journey with us! From here: /r/stormgate They compare it to sc2 3 years before announcement and 5 befor release but this game is not realeasing in 5 years, it's releasing this year right? The game looks grapphically very bland and that doesn't work in it's favour, and it seems 1 of the 2 factions shown still needs a lot of work, and they havent shown the third I guess because it's lacking even more. I would focus on 2 races, then release the third one later and improving the unit interaction, graphics and having something else to do because it's cool tghat it has a low skill floor, buteven when you compare something like sc2 to league of legends where league is "easier", there is still a lot to do, a very high skill cap etc. In storm gate it ffeels like there are point were you do 1 thing and you have some extra apm athat you can't really use for something meaningful
From KS:
We are currently planning to release Stormgate to Steam Early Access in summer 2024. This date is subject to change
This means about ~6 month till EA release. Not a lot
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On February 19 2024 20:31 gfdtrefgd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2024 18:55 WombaT wrote:On February 19 2024 09:31 SoleSteeler wrote:A good note from Frost Giant on reddit: I'd like to add that Stormgate is not a marketing beta -- the game is far from final and we are still working on foundational gameplay design, features, art, sound, and story content. Then there's the editor we're planning to put into players hands. At this point in Wings of Liberty's development, for comparison's sake, the game wouldn't even be announced for another three years. We already have a playable beta in players' hands. You wouldn't see the Wings beta for another 5 years or so.
If you're comparing our beta to a beta test for an almost-finished game, they're completely different things. We are actively developing the game with our playtesters and their valuable feedback is part of why the game has gotten this far along in such a short time.
We are early and have a lot of work left to go, but we are excited to see how quickly the team is making progress with each new build. Art is one of the most-impacted disciplines as most game teams and publishers do not show the public unfinished work. We are making our game hand-in-hand with the RTS community and showing people our process and what we're up to--please expect everything in the game to continue to be worked on for months (and years) to come, with all the care and passion that this team can muster.
Thanks for being part of this journey with us! From here: /r/stormgate Reasonable but it begs the question of the wisdom on dropping money on running an eSports event. I’m presuming they provided the funds, if I’m wrong folks feel free to correct me. Like the tech trees aren’t really fleshed, the maps aren’t too great and the observer UI is terrible. I don’t expect these things for an effective alpha build, sure. Equally it kind of means trying to do the whole razzmatazz of an eSports event falls a bit flat. Reasonable? You dont throw your alpha-beta at the general public, promote it on IGN, run tournaments and treat it like early access. What the fuck did they expect? They have to immediadly close this shitshow. Return to closed development.
They get a lot more data from having it as it is and probably quicker/better development.
Only thing to hope is that they dont listen too much what the players want, if they have no own vision it will be as you say a shitshow 
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I don't think the Stormgate tournament was funded by them at all, actually. It was funded by EGC from what they were saying on stream.
Early Access is early access, the game could still be "in development" or "in beta" for another 2 years if they want it to be (like Baldur's Gate 3 was).
If they have enough content (and remember the game is free) that is stable, I say let the people play.
I am more concerned for their campaign - short (I assuming it'll feel short) 3 chapter releases may kill some momentum for the story - or maybe they'll purposefully make it suspenseful and make you anticipate the next release? Who knows.
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On February 19 2024 19:58 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 17 2024 08:15 LunarC wrote:
So can any of these games move beyond SC2? It's fast turning into army blob vs. army blob again. Why can't any of these games design their systems to produce multi-screen spanning battles on multiple fronts like Brood War regularly produced? I guess why do these games always revert to blob v. blob? Can the mechanisms ever be designed to revert to clashes on multiple fronts instead? Is there a solution besides a unit selection cap? Easy solutions: Just make a lot of AoE and make it really strongMake a blob move slower the bigger it is (logistics are hard!) or give a speed bonus to smaller armies
Yes, that worked really well for SC2, didn't it? :D People are still blobbing while complaining about their armies dying in less than a second. I honestly don't think strong AoE alone is enough to incentivise not to blobb, especially if there are other design elements that strongly encourage blobbing.
On February 19 2024 22:24 MeSaber wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2024 20:31 gfdtrefgd wrote:On February 19 2024 18:55 WombaT wrote:On February 19 2024 09:31 SoleSteeler wrote:A good note from Frost Giant on reddit: I'd like to add that Stormgate is not a marketing beta -- the game is far from final and we are still working on foundational gameplay design, features, art, sound, and story content. Then there's the editor we're planning to put into players hands. At this point in Wings of Liberty's development, for comparison's sake, the game wouldn't even be announced for another three years. We already have a playable beta in players' hands. You wouldn't see the Wings beta for another 5 years or so.
If you're comparing our beta to a beta test for an almost-finished game, they're completely different things. We are actively developing the game with our playtesters and their valuable feedback is part of why the game has gotten this far along in such a short time.
We are early and have a lot of work left to go, but we are excited to see how quickly the team is making progress with each new build. Art is one of the most-impacted disciplines as most game teams and publishers do not show the public unfinished work. We are making our game hand-in-hand with the RTS community and showing people our process and what we're up to--please expect everything in the game to continue to be worked on for months (and years) to come, with all the care and passion that this team can muster.
Thanks for being part of this journey with us! From here: /r/stormgate Reasonable but it begs the question of the wisdom on dropping money on running an eSports event. I’m presuming they provided the funds, if I’m wrong folks feel free to correct me. Like the tech trees aren’t really fleshed, the maps aren’t too great and the observer UI is terrible. I don’t expect these things for an effective alpha build, sure. Equally it kind of means trying to do the whole razzmatazz of an eSports event falls a bit flat. Reasonable? You dont throw your alpha-beta at the general public, promote it on IGN, run tournaments and treat it like early access. What the fuck did they expect? They have to immediadly close this shitshow. Return to closed development. They get a lot more data from having it as it is and probably quicker/better development. Only thing to hope is that they dont listen too much what the players want, if they have no own vision it will be as you say a shitshow
They have no own vision. This was clear from the very first interviews. They just had some vague ideas about making the next great RTS with high skill ceiling and low skill floor, which enables a mass casual game and a highly competitive esport at the same time. However, they didn't communicate any ideas on how to achieve this and refered back to "we are going to ask the community" on every design question possible.
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Stormgate killed my hope for rts genre.
The only hope I have left for an rts I want to play is the age of mythology remake, if it's better than the original then it's going to be a masterpiece, it might suck aswell like all the new releases nowadays.
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On February 19 2024 18:39 qwerty4w wrote:
It might not be impossible for Blizzard to assemble an RTS dev team again and announce Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4 before 2029, if any RTS game within the next few years manage to become sufficiently commercially successful, like if Tempest Rising sells at least as much as C&C3, for example.
On February 20 2024 03:25 sertas wrote:
Stormgate killed my hope for rts genre.
The only hope I have left for an rts I want to play is the age of mythology remake, if it's better than the original then it's going to be a masterpiece, it might suck aswell like all the new releases nowadays.
I am personally looking forward to Homeworld 3, though it is a few months out. What they have shown is interesting and it is an IP that has had good games in it. I'll do as I've been doing recently and get it a year down the line when it is better than at release and never play multiplayer at all. Personally I feel MP is the least important part of an RTS.
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On February 20 2024 00:58 Miragee wrote:
Yes, that worked really well for SC2, didn't it? :D People are still blobbing while complaining about their armies dying in less than a second. I honestly don't think strong AoE alone is enough to incentivise not to blobb, especially if there are other design elements that strongly encourage blobbing.
I believe that blobbing in SC2 is a result of bad unit collision sizes. While it might look good on units like zerglings, the almost zero collision size and thus clumping together for other units looks terrible (and was one of the reasons why I didn't pick up SC2, didn't want to move blobs around). If they simply made it so that units have to keep some minimum distance between each other (depending on a unit) it would look better and make it into an interesting strategic choice. If you'd have plenty of units that can't just blob up then traversing the terrain becomes more challenging. It also makes the use of AoE abilities more tricky and puts greater emphasis on positioning.
Alas, we got the blob fights instead.
On February 20 2024 04:19 Yurie wrote:
I am personally looking forward to Homeworld 3, though it is a year out. What they have shown is interesting and it is an IP that has had good games in it.
Unfortunately after the recent beta they pushed HW3 back for 2 months to fix some of the issues. I hope they can get it right because right now the biggest problem are all the APM burden skills that are manual but should be automated - like a boost that has no drawback, lasts 10 seconds on a 15 second cooldown so you basically have to click the button on the unit 5 seconds after it runs out, or stealth bombers that can be cloaked permanently until they shoot but then have to be manually re-cloaked 3 seconds after each and every shot, or the mothership ability that boosts production on a cooldown so you have to keep pressing the button on the dot.
Those don't really add anything to the game other than APM sink that's not just unnecessary but also annoying. In previous Homeworld games this was balanced because using extra abilities on units used up more fuel so they had to be rotated out to recover more often. HW3 has no fuel so there's no drawback to those abilities which means you want to keep them up as much as possible but they're all manual so you have to constantly click through all your units all the time just to press the ability button.
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EPT
