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Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 176
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_Spartak_
Turkey464 Posts
https://www.twitch.tv/beomulf | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
Please add a "<<`Player`>> WINS! ! !" splash screen as the game ends. Even if Stormgate ends up cratering I think Beomulf is improving the brand value of his fledgling channel. To quote one of the most important RTS player of all time, Martha Stewart: "and that's a good thing". | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey464 Posts
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2238830255?t=03h27m13s This kind of fight shows Stormgate's vision in practice. Bunch of small micro adjustments throughout a minutes-long fight spanning across the whole screen. Hopefully, we see more of these following balance matches. | ||
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RogerChillingworth
Chad3132 Posts
On September 01 2024 01:45 _Spartak_ wrote: Great 3 minute back and forth fight between Elazer and Percival (wanted to clip it but it was too long): https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2238830255?t=03h27m13s This kind of fight shows Stormgate's vision in practice. Bunch of small micro adjustments throughout a minutes-long fight spanning across the whole screen. Hopefully, we see more of these following balance matches. That was nice. The beginning was essentially vanguard kiting but it became good. Miasma and tankevac continue to be the most interesting to play and watch. Feel like if we had a couple more of these things, some new maps, and some optimization for people with lower end machines, it'd be pretty sick. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey464 Posts
https://www.twitch.tv/beomulf | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27480 Posts
On September 01 2024 09:56 RogerChillingworth wrote: That was nice. The beginning was essentially vanguard kiting but it became good. Miasma and tankevac continue to be the most interesting to play and watch. Feel like if we had a couple more of these things, some new maps, and some optimization for people with lower end machines, it'd be pretty sick. It feels like SC2 only even with bigger swings to extremes. SC2 a bad game can be pretty fucking bad, but many tend to dwell in the ‘meh’ zone, or ‘hey decent game’. Then you get pretty frequent epic games or enjoyable clown fiestas. With SG, I’d say maybe I’ve only watched like 20-30 tournament matches (not sets, actual series) I’m stuck by how it’s almost entirely binary between terrible games, and really good, fun games to watch. I’m hoping with a few balance/design tweaks, better maps and the factions getting fully-fleshed out with T3 options that’ll push the balance a bit towards more decent thru great games, rather than most being either terrible or epic. When everything aligns right I can clearly see the game at its best, or its potential and hey it’s pretty tasty! I think part of it is just a meta that’s not figured out yet, plus is still in a state of flux for sure. Perhaps another is it feels very snowbally as it is currently. Maybe retool veterancy/infest a little, make them more dependent on PvP interactions rather than creeping/energy Celestials seem the least figured-out faction thus far, but as yet it feels they don’t quite have an equivalent snowball mechanic in their favour. They can still snowball in the more traditional way, but less so in terms of their actual faction mechanics. I haven’t played enough to comment myself, but there does seem a lot of feedback that it’s rough to play a straight-up macro game into late game against both Infernals and Vanguard Celestial’s kinda trump card mechanics wise is enabling taking a bunch of expos, but that’s way less economically potent when just creeping is a viable economic alternative. | ||
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Archeon
3275 Posts
The game is alright else as a PvE game. Obviously the map pool is way smaller, but in general I feel like the 3 coop maps are fun enough and it's still early access, so I assume more is to come. The creep camps are a fun way to add side objectives, I don't mind the hero focus in coop at all and compared to f.e. DoW3 heroes aren't these fight ending monstrosities. I feel like visibility could be a lot better, esp with how huge air units are and how close the zoom is, but all in all it's a nice change of pace from Sc2 and I like that damage is less terrible terrible and that I have more buttons to click. SG is in a lot of ways a hybrid between Sc2 and WC3 and for PvE that's not bad at all. They are just charging twice as much as they imo should be and that's kinda a game breaker right now. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
On September 02 2024 07:52 Archeon wrote: They are just charging twice as much as they imo should be and that's kinda a game breaker right now. So many dirt cheap options on Steam that it is tough for Stormgate to compete. 9Bit armies is $15 and you get a complete world builder along with a fully featured PvE sand box with 25 co-op campaign missions. Survival modes.. various other multiplayer and/or single player with AI modes. All inclusive $15. So far, the AI in 9Bit armies feels far more humanlike and interesting than the AI in Stormgate. I will need to spend 100 hours in each game to make a thorough judgment though. My preliminary view is (9Bit Armies AI) > (Stormgate AI) | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16129 Posts
On September 02 2024 02:47 WombaT wrote: It feels like SC2 only even with bigger swings to extremes. SC2 a bad game can be pretty fucking bad, but many tend to dwell in the ‘meh’ zone, or ‘hey decent game’. Then you get pretty frequent epic games or enjoyable clown fiestas. With SG, I’d say maybe I’ve only watched like 20-30 tournament matches (not sets, actual series) I’m stuck by how it’s almost entirely binary between terrible games, and really good, fun games to watch. I’m hoping with a few balance/design tweaks, better maps and the factions getting fully-fleshed out with T3 options that’ll push the balance a bit towards more decent thru great games, rather than most being either terrible or epic. When everything aligns right I can clearly see the game at its best, or its potential and hey it’s pretty tasty! I think part of it is just a meta that’s not figured out yet, plus is still in a state of flux for sure. Perhaps another is it feels very snowbally as it is currently. Maybe retool veterancy/infest a little, make them more dependent on PvP interactions rather than creeping/energy Celestials seem the least figured-out faction thus far, but as yet it feels they don’t quite have an equivalent snowball mechanic in their favour. They can still snowball in the more traditional way, but less so in terms of their actual faction mechanics. I haven’t played enough to comment myself, but there does seem a lot of feedback that it’s rough to play a straight-up macro game into late game against both Infernals and Vanguard Celestial’s kinda trump card mechanics wise is enabling taking a bunch of expos, but that’s way less economically potent when just creeping is a viable economic alternative. How much of the "meh" factor of SC2 games could you honestly attribute to you just being extremely familiar with the meta? Because one thing I've noticed with RTS games in particular is that an unfamiliar and unstable meta tends to be a lot more binary just because of how chaotic games can get. You get a lot more people just getting bopped by builds they haven't seen before or don't know how to counter and a lot more games where players get confused as to how to progress as the game goes later and it becomes a clown fiesta. SC2 the meta is so figured out that we have very few surprises anymore. Players take a lot fewer risks, and even the risks they do take are risks we've seen before so it's hardly exactly exciting most of the time. I think this was a big reason that the Starcraft EVO mod was so entertaining for a little while. We just had a bunch of chaotic games where players kept making decisions on the fly without knowing whether they were correct or not. Once the game actually settled into a more stable meta people lost interest fast. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On September 02 2024 11:20 Vindicare605 wrote: How much of the "meh" factor of SC2 games could you honestly attribute to you just being extremely familiar with the meta? .... Once the game actually settled into a more stable meta people lost interest fast. Isnt that the case in SG with the dog meta already? Kinda speedrunned there | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
But I really don't understand how they're supposed to get 3v3 to be playable? I have a close to average PC (according to steam surveys) and 1v1 becomes pretty unresponsive in the lategame. SC2 runs at 200fps but in SG I hit like 30-40 only in 1v1 early game and then it drops to <10 fps and horrible input lag at high supply. Everyone knows the game was shipped too early and there's a lot of improvements to make, and i'm no programmer, but is it even possible to optimise the game that much that people get 4-5x higher fps? I doubt 3v3 will even be able to load on my system. The release so far has shown that releasing unfinished products too early doesn't leave a good taste in people's mouths, much of the negative feedback is about things that are in the dev pipeline (graphics, hotkeys, optimisation) but people don't care, they want a finished product or they feel ripped off | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
Have an overclocked watercooled 5800x and tightly timed RAM, wth. I wonder how the Infernal would fare, when you really mass up on units | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
On September 02 2024 22:31 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote: Had the same issue with Vanguard when my bioball was like 60 units and it hit minute 17. Have an overclocked watercooled 5800x and tightly timed RAM, wth. I wonder how the Infernal would fare, when you really mass up on units did you try turning off netcode rollback? | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On September 02 2024 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote: did you try turning off netcode rollback? I've tried both ways and no rollback certainly runs a little better, but not enough to take it from unplayable to playable. It's similar with graphics settings. Early game it's at 30 fps on ultra or 40 on minimum, both are equally unplayable lategame. Even lowering the resolution does barely anything, it's clearly all a cpu problem. One thing that's especially worrying in 1v1, the lag will often be horrible until I win/my opponent leaves, then I get an instant performance boom (even though their units are still on the field). Given the sudden difference between 1 player and 2, I just don't see a world where 6 is possible. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On September 02 2024 23:32 JimmyJRaynor wrote: did you try turning off netcode rollback? Also tried both, it is better without. But come on, the 5800x runs like everything, whats the point of rollback when you need 7800x3d+ / 12900k+ ? Who is your playerbase then as F2P? | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
Stormgate is now at 48% approval on Steam and there are 272 people watching it on Twitch.tv | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20345 Posts
On September 03 2024 02:59 JimmyJRaynor wrote: If your opponent grabs 30 of his units and attack moves them someplace on the map... Does your screen noticably stutter and lag as he issues the attack command? That is a problem in sc2 even, it is just that the performance baseline is much better so it's not as obvious unless you have a really dated CPU or third party tools to e.g. overlay the frametime chart of the game on your screen. It's visible in the performance of the game when somebody builds 100 lings or moves a big army, so much so that it can provide a legitimate competitive advantage, but that's one of the flaws of the engine without a very reasonable way to mitigate it. There are also similar technical flaws with pathfinding that allow you to e.g. see if a choke is blocked or not and even if certain bases are occupied without having vision or getting close enough for your opponent to see your scouts because both clients know the full state of the map and units will path differently based on information that you as a player don't have, but can extract. For example if a choke or ramp is walled, then your scout will not even attempt to take that path even though it is the shortest. If a command center is on a base, it can make your scout path like "(" instead of "|" when you tell it to walk straight through that location from outside of fog and so you can confirm the presence of a building without coming into its vision range. I'm sure that getting rid of that stuff is a real headache and in reality it probably hasn't been abused much, but it must have been somewhat. These issues are a bit of an open secret in competition. The game forces you to accidentally abuse some of them with a simple command like you send a ground scout to a base, but instead of going up the ramp (which you don't know is walled) it just walks over to the nearest cliff and stops moving. I've discovered a scout that did or tried to do that probably hundreds of times - that's why it happens. If you are intentionally trying to extract information from the performance of the game and from the pathfinder then much more information is there. Stormgate is now at 48% approval on Steam 5.6k total reviews, 40 per day rn and they are at 46% positive this past week so that looks like where it'll sit until something major happens. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada18063 Posts
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