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Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread - Page 174
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CicadaSC
United States1973 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22488 Posts
On August 30 2024 15:01 CicadaSC wrote: competitive rts doesnt sell enough, they need more casual players and 3v3 is much better for that. The more shared responsibility and blame the easier it is to attract less competitive players and the less intimidating it is.unfortunately, I agree. I thought 3v3 was supposed to be a competitive mode but it sounds like they want it to cater more towards newer players. they are making its focus uninteractive and on creep camps so players 'don't die early.' read for yourself - "Combat centered around Creep camps, capture points, and expansions, with the destruction of the enemy team’s shared structure acting as the central victory condition. These elements encouraged teamwork and prevented early eliminations, ensuring that players could enjoy the game from start to finish. " - Frost Giant | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1973 Posts
On August 30 2024 17:35 Gorsameth wrote: competitive rts doesnt sell enough, they need more casual players and 3v3 is much better for that. The more shared responsibility and blame the easier it is to attract less competitive players and the less intimidating it is. I mean sure, I agree, casual modes are great I just feel like I got blindsided reading that. I was expecting something else. I suppose we will see in a few months time. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9447 Posts
On August 30 2024 17:35 Gorsameth wrote: competitive rts doesnt sell enough, they need more casual players and 3v3 is much better for that. The more shared responsibility and blame the easier it is to attract less competitive players and the less intimidating it is. I think fifa does well enough as 1v1. Or teamfight tactics as 1v1v1.. And heartstone very popular for a long time as 1v1. Similarly 1v1 RTS games can work - there is muchmuch potential and new unexplored ideas. As I've been trying to write about for the past years, devs are getting it wrong and thus all the failures are predictable. A well-done 1v1 RTS game imo can be a better alternative for the solo-queueing MOBA segment. Many MOBA players don't actually enjoy the reliance on random-team mates, but the gameplay experience is simply better than any other RTS. (the whole idea that people secretly prefer team-games because they can blame team-mates for their losses is the nonsense. Trust me, I can easily blame protoss for my losses.  )3v3 RTS games can be... okay. But if the learning barrier is still high and the micro still mediocre, it doesn't solve the core issue that the 1v1 gameplay is having. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On August 30 2024 17:04 CicadaSC wrote: playercount = 413... about to drop to the 300s It is only EA, let them cook | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States695 Posts
LOL, the same stupid argument I hear since when, not sure, but the game is not fun at all. Like do they even understand what is fun? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16125 Posts
On August 30 2024 20:36 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: LOL, the same stupid argument I hear since when, not sure, but the game is not fun at all. Like do they even understand what is fun? I doubt he's being sincere. There's no defending this game at this point. The best anyone can do is to just put it on hold and come back in a couple of years, IF the studio survives that long. | ||
JimmyJRaynor
Canada17708 Posts
https://www.pcgamer.com/games/rts/real-time-strategy-almost-came-back-from-the-brink-of-death-and-then-fell-flat-on-its-face/ There's perhaps some hope for Stormgate, which is still in development. It ain't looking too hot right now, though, following its lacklustre early access launch. Honestly, I don't think early access is the right move for an RTS, especially one so focused on multiplayer, which needs polish and balance that you just can't get when it's still cooking. Frost Giant has also made the mistake of forgetting that, despite StarCraft—one of its primary inspirations, along with Warcraft 3—being an esports sensation, real-time strategy has always attracted more singleplayer fans. A good campaign is critical, and a couple of iffy missions aren't gonna cut it. When someone puts the word "Honestly" in their writing I figure they are lying somewhere. "PC Gamer, Can I Be Honest For Just 1 Minute?" On August 30 2024 11:27 Zergxhx wrote: Really? A few years ago, I played 8bit for dozens of hours. I thought the AI lacked challenges and PVE was boring, so I gave up on 9bit. Is AI a big improvement over 8bit? If so, I will try 9BIT. the AI is better. I think the maps are also designed to make the AI appear smarter as well. 9-Bit has the 2nd best Naval combat of any RTS I've played. For me, Red Alert 3 has the best integrated Naval Combat. In well made maps and when certain breaks happen during a long game you can win a game with just a Navy in RA3. I'd say 9-Bit armies is like Classic C&C , Nintendo Advance Wars, and Red Alert 3 rolled into a 2024 video game. 25 mission campaign with 12 missions for each of the 2 factions. The campaign has different difficulty levels with Bronze, Silver, and Gold level milestones. The campaign has online multiplayer co op. Its got a map maker. Its got 9BitTV for social play experiences. You can watch other people's games or join in on 9BitTV. All of the game's features have LAN support so you never have to be on any one else's server ever. IMO, for $15 the game is worth it. Other Notes The opening splash screen of 9-Bit Armies is the whirring of a 5.25" floppy drive powering up and an .exe line on the command line of an Apple ][ . Not an Apple 2, no no no, it is Apple ][ . ~2001, I found and booted up a C64 in my grandparents attic along with 500+ pirated games and a 1541 5.25" Floppy Drive. Ah good times! Forget the fake "1983 Video Game Crash" that never happened. The 1541 Floppy killed the Atari 2600. In other words, the guys designing this game are 50+ years old. LOL. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On August 30 2024 20:36 PurE)Rabbit-SF wrote: LOL, the same stupid argument I hear since when, not sure, but the game is not fun at all. Like do they even understand what is fun? i thought it was kinda obvious :D, ofc its sarcasm Not even Spartak would write something like that any longer. No way FGS makes it to 2025 | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States695 Posts
On August 30 2024 21:43 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote: i thought it was kinda obvious :D, ofc its sarcasm Not even Spartak would write something like that any longer. No way FGS makes it to 2025 Well, you got me there. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
I am just baffled how all that talk about making RTS better for a new player demographic amounted to this design. I played SC BW 15 or so yrs ago with my little cousin who never played an RTS and he did ok for his age after a few games. I cant even imagine how that would go with SG. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey459 Posts
https://www.twitch.tv/beomulf | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17708 Posts
On August 30 2024 22:51 _Spartak_ wrote: Stormgate Nexus tournament is live: https://www.twitch.tv/beomulf Beomulf is doing a great job. On August 30 2024 22:22 gingerfluffmuffnr2 wrote: Shout out to BeoMulf for trying to hype up the match like his life depends on it, but damn it is boring to watch. IMO, the way Beomulf broadcasts games he makes it exciting. I see the state of the game.. .and i just wanna give the poor guy a hug. If, somehow, Beomulf attains a net positive out of supporting SG and FG... good for him. | ||
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27230 Posts
The unit gives me nightmares just thinking about playing against a decent player. It’s all the frustration of getting caught by a muta switch in PvZ, but like seemingly every game from the start. Plus, with SC2’s higher macro demands and the multitasking requirements mean non-elite players will make mistakes. And if they do, lower TTK and squishy mutas can see you nail a good few mutas if they do make such an error. In Stormgate, it’s a bunch of units faster than anything else going, roaming constantly and establishing map control from the very start of the game. And if you do catch them, you’re not even guaranteed to get a kill off. It’s just an unbelievably frustrating meta, people have generally called for the nerf hammer forever but yet it’s still the meta? Combined with how potent creeping the map is, it’s also disincentivising players clashing and skirmishing too. If you have a tool that can just roam around, is too fast to be meaningfully punished, always gives the possibility of doing a runby, and creeping at present is probably just stronger than fast expanding, why wouldn’t you just run around, creep as much as you can and pin your opponent with the threat of backstabs? It’s the whole development process and its wonkiness in a nutshell. They’re quite receptive to some feedback, and almost neuter cool stuff by going the ‘design by committee’ route, the two areas that are most frequently complained about were the ones they put their foot down and said ‘hey we think we’re right on this’ Number 1 being the aesthetic style, probably a close number 2 being persisting with scouts in their current form and maybe tweaking a few numbers. It’s meant to be a scout and fill that hole, why not have it JUST be a scouting unit? Or give it some additional support ability. This ain’t my first rodeo, I find them a giant pain in the arse to deal with. God only knows what some relatively new RTS player experiences with mass dog being so potent | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States695 Posts
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gingerfluffmuffnr2
107 Posts
On August 31 2024 01:05 WombaT wrote: God only knows what some relatively new RTS player experiences with mass dog being so potent Nah, Steamcharts also knows. They go and play the many other great RTS. FGS couldnt have chosen a worse time to release a subpar game in this genre. | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20342 Posts
How is the dog meta still a thing? At this point in early development and balance i would suggest weekly tuning On August 30 2024 15:01 CicadaSC wrote: unfortunately, I agree. I thought 3v3 was supposed to be a competitive mode but it sounds like they want it to cater more towards newer players. they are making its focus uninteractive and on creep camps so players 'don't die early.' read for yourself - "Combat centered around Creep camps, capture points, and expansions, with the destruction of the enemy team’s shared structure acting as the central victory condition. These elements encouraged teamwork and prevented early eliminations, ensuring that players could enjoy the game from start to finish. " - Frost Giant It's gonna be something akin to 3v3 LoL or HOTS, low supply cap. They can't afford the performance of more and i doubt they can improve the performance radically in the time alotted. I am like 90 percent sure that this game is not recoverable any more, but they probably feel like they have to try something. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27230 Posts
On August 31 2024 01:38 Cyro wrote: At this point in early development and balance i would suggest weekly tuning It's gonna be something akin to 3v3 LoL or HOTS, low supply cap. They can't afford the performance of more and i doubt they can improve the performance radically in the time alotted. I am like 90 percent sure that this game is not recoverable any more, but they probably feel like they have to try something. I’m all for frequent tuning, I think my issue with the unit is its long, long history (relatively speaking) it’s just always been a problematic one. But they seem so determined to make it work as some kind of hill to die on. Sadly agreed that I don’t think the game is recoverable at this stage, and I’ve never really been anything than the cautious optimist on the project. I wanted it to deliver, equally I’m not so invested that I’ll ignore some missteps, stick my fingers in my ears and go ‘I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!’ People don’t like mass dogs, they haven’t since the earliest playtests. There’s plenty of feedback there to just overhaul the unit in a more radical way, make it more of a pure scout. Or a scout with some caster utility. | ||
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PurE)Rabbit-SF
United States695 Posts
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