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Turbovolver
Australia2447 Posts
On March 23 2023 14:51 lestye wrote: OK? Our enjoyment of games isn't reflected in revenues and profits. Precisely. Evaluated as a company, I'm sure Blizzard is stronger under ATVI. Evaluated as a producer of games that I want to play? Nooooooope. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17841 Posts
On March 23 2023 14:51 lestye wrote: I don't think anyone would describe Starcraft or Warcraft 3 or Diablo 2 as small low budget games.They were fully priced, exceptional games when they came out. I think that's what Manit0u was talking about. What I meant was that before WoW all the games that Blizzard released were polished to perfection and genre-defining. Clearly a product of passion and something that set the bar for their other releases. I really don't know what happened after that, my assumption is that WoW grew so big that it exceeded everyone's expectations and simply consumed all the talent Blizzard had, reflecting on their work in other projects. After all, you have to keep the cash cow going and as it grew in size and complexity it also required more and more time and resources. There were stories of people being pulled from other teams to work on WoW. Then there was the advent of live service, always online games etc. | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
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lestye
United States4238 Posts
Really? That game screamed making a sequel for the sake of a sequel because of how poorly all the systems were handled. >and was probably why there was a gradual exodus from the original 'founding' team. Eh, I think thats just inevitability. But yeah, I think there's certainly a lot of bias when we get into discussion. Like Allen Adham was a founder. Allen Adham left in 2004, peak Blizzard. But if Allen Adham left 5 years later, I think people would infer "oh man, he was probably disgusted by the way ATVI was doing the company he founded". . | ||
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Miragee
8707 Posts
On March 24 2023 02:14 lestye wrote: > I know D3 was also originally a product of passion Really? That game screamed making a sequel for the sake of a sequel because of how poorly all the systems were handled. I think people forget D3 was in development since 2005 or so and was completely scrapped once between 2005-2012 and developed basically from scratch. Now, I don't know if it was ever a passion project but I could at least imagine it being one when they started originally before WoW became their financial success story. I would also like to hear honest thoughts of people who played WoW a lot on whether they think WoW was originally a passion project, if they try to put away their biases. I personally can't tell because the genre in general isn't for me I think. I tried to get into WoW multiple times but the time wasting mechanics, mind-numbing quests, boring item/skill system etc. were too off-putting for me to ever get far. | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10163 Posts
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lestye
United States4238 Posts
On March 24 2023 03:19 Miragee wrote: I think people forget D3 was in development since 2005 or so and was completely scrapped once between 2005-2012 and developed basically from scratch. Now, I don't know if it was ever a passion project but I could at least imagine it being one when they started originally before WoW became their financial success story. I would also like to hear honest thoughts of people who played WoW a lot on whether they think WoW was originally a passion project, if they try to put away their biases. I personally can't tell because the genre in general isn't for me I think. I tried to get into WoW multiple times but the time wasting mechanics, mind-numbing quests, boring item/skill system etc. were too off-putting for me to ever get far. Im aware of that, but that doesn’t make sense in the context because ATVI wasn’t in play. Vinvendi shut down that D3 with Blizzard north. That’d for sure be way more passionate because those guys actually worked on d1 and d2 | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
On March 24 2023 04:29 Godwrath wrote: Canilla WoW, the music, the theme. The Game was a masterpiece. Not saying nowadays WoW is worse or better or whatever, but if you played you could feel the freaking LOVE for the product. Yeah vanilla wow is amazing it has a lot of quality to it it's ambitious, has base depth and balance with 9 classes with quite a lot of customization big replayability and it tries to do a open world MMO I think more than any of its expansions, the focus quickly shifted to releasing content via powercreep through instances sold as expansions and activision bought blizzard quickly then. | ||
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Miragee
8707 Posts
On March 24 2023 04:42 lestye wrote: Im aware of that, but that doesn’t make sense in the context because ATVI wasn’t in play. Vinvendi shut down that D3 with Blizzard north. That’d for sure be way more passionate because those guys actually worked on d1 and d2 Right, fair point. //Thanks for the answers on WoW! | ||
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Southlight
United States11768 Posts
On March 24 2023 02:14 lestye wrote: > I know D3 was also originally a product of passion Really? That game screamed making a sequel for the sake of a sequel because of how poorly all the systems were handled. One can certainly argue that Wilson didn't have the greatest of ideas as pertains to Diablo 3 game design but I lean toward believing their hearts were in the right place. | ||
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lestye
United States4238 Posts
On March 24 2023 06:16 Southlight wrote: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyocC15CyN0 One can certainly argue that Wilson didn't have the greatest of ideas as pertains to Diablo 3 game design but I lean toward believing their hearts were in the right place. I’ll have to take to time to watch that, but seeing how dramatically different Diablo 3 was compared to 1 and 2, I don’t understand where any of the passion was. Maybe they had the passion to make an excellent ARPG or a game, but it certainlyy wasnt to make an excellent DIablo game. And not to be a bitch by bringing up literally a decades old drama, but him going “Fuck that loser” to David Brevik critiquing D3 really showed his mentality towards the people who created the franchise. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17841 Posts
On March 24 2023 03:19 Miragee wrote: I think people forget D3 was in development since 2005 or so and was completely scrapped once between 2005-2012 and developed basically from scratch. Now, I don't know if it was ever a passion project but I could at least imagine it being one when they started originally before WoW became their financial success story. I would also like to hear honest thoughts of people who played WoW a lot on whether they think WoW was originally a passion project, if they try to put away their biases. I personally can't tell because the genre in general isn't for me I think. I tried to get into WoW multiple times but the time wasting mechanics, mind-numbing quests, boring item/skill system etc. were too off-putting for me to ever get far. Despite me being a big opponent of WoW, or at least what it has become, I have to admit that in the beginning it was an excellent game (what you'd expect of Blizzard) that I sunk quite a lot of hours into (being a big WC3 fan and all). I quit WoW somewhere after TBC (which was still good) but I would not return to it now. I checked it out a year or two ago when I got free 30 days of gameplay but after finding out other MMOs that were released around/after WoW and seeing how they handled things I simply can't endorse the WoW model at all. Edit: And speaking of passion and good products, to touch on BAR again... | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17791 Posts
What have these top Blizzard employees gone on to produce since leaving BLizzard and the evil ATVI management umbrella? I think Metzen made a board game. | ||
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Qikz
United Kingdom12054 Posts
On March 23 2023 11:03 Manit0u wrote: In any case, somewhere along the way Blizz seems to have lost some of it passion in pursuit of money. When WoW blew up they pooled most resources into it to the detriment of their other IPs, which is now kinda biting them in the ass with WoW being on the decline and having increased competition. Thankfully there are still some passion projects out there for the RTS fans. There's a pretty dedicated Total Annihilation fanbase that's working on reviving the franchise (since Supreme Commander wasn't enough). https://www.beyondallreason.info/ I realise it wasn't well loved at release but Planetary Annihilation is absolutely incredible. It's 100x better a game than Sup Com and playing it feels epic as all hell. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17841 Posts
On March 29 2023 03:37 Qikz wrote: I realise it wasn't well loved at release but Planetary Annihilation is absolutely incredible. It's 100x better a game than Sup Com and playing it feels epic as all hell. Well, I guess most of it comes down to the fact that small studios tend to make games they'd like to play themselves while big studios have to focus on recouping the costs and making big bucks for the shareholders. It can be clearly seen in how Blizzard started approaching their own games, with D4 being the most recent example. Some stuff in there is good but quite a bit of it seems completely unnecessary and made solely for the purpose of adding monetization (extensive character customization in a game where you barely even see your character?). Those are resources that could've been spent on improving more vital areas (like character run/attack animations for example). Just like the BAR video by Winter shows how important it is that the game is done with passion for it, where devs are also players and have added features he didn't even know he needed before he found out about them but are absolutely brilliant from the gameplay perspective. Or when people keep asking people behind Last Epoch why they don't have gender select on characters or customization and they explained that they're focused on developing gameplay first and adding more options to your character is just a lot of dev time spent on duplicating and adjusting assets and animations, time they'd rather spend polishing the core experience. It's often small details like that which tend to get lost for big studios who just keep flaunting their amazing cinematics, graphics and customization options but their game is just disappointing in practice. | ||
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lestye
United States4238 Posts
On March 29 2023 04:38 Manit0u wrote: Well, I guess most of it comes down to the fact that small studios tend to make games they'd like to play themselves while big studios have to focus on recouping the costs and making big bucks for the shareholders. It can be clearly seen in how Blizzard started approaching their own games, with D4 being the most recent example. Some stuff in there is good but quite a bit of it seems completely unnecessary and made solely for the purpose of adding monetization (extensive character customization in a game where you barely even see your character?). Those are resources that could've been spent on improving more vital areas (like character run/attack animations for example). Just like the BAR video by Winter shows how important it is that the game is done with passion for it, where devs are also players and have added features he didn't even know he needed before he found out about them but are absolutely brilliant from the gameplay perspective. Or when people keep asking people behind Last Epoch why they don't have gender select on characters or customization and they explained that they're focused on developing gameplay first and adding more options to your character is just a lot of dev time spent on duplicating and adjusting assets and animations, time they'd rather spend polishing the core experience. It's often small details like that which tend to get lost for big studios who just keep flaunting their amazing cinematics, graphics and customization options but their game is just disappointing in practice. I don’t think your point has merit. If we look at other games in the genre, they offer the same kind of customization options. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4446 Posts
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On March 29 2023 16:42 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: Haven't been following it super closely, any video footage yet or will we need to wait until beta is supposedly out in 2-3 months? Only this Who said 2-3 months though? I'm increasingly confident that this is "The One", the true next step from Starcraft. Can't wait to see you all on Beta (: | ||
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2 Posts
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