EPTThe 15 year olds are playing against the 50 year olds in these games... its kinda cool. LOL.
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread - Page 28
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
The 15 year olds are playing against the 50 year olds in these games... its kinda cool. LOL. | ||
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nforce
Bulgaria116 Posts
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_Spartak_
Turkey459 Posts
On June 08 2024 13:58 Waxangel wrote: That's part of why it's so interesting to me, because they consciously set aside some of the immersion, factional identity, and base-building aspects that appeal to the campaign-playing group of RTS players. Instead, they focused on some of the most action-y parts of Blizz-RTS/SC2. I found it quite fun and so did many of the testers with SC2 backgrounds (however credible you think we are given our incentives), and my feeling is that Uncapped won't have a problem enticing hardcore 1v1 SC2 players. However, I think their 'RTS for anyone' rhetoric is pretty nonsense as it's a pretty hands-heavy game, and it makes you wonder "WHO IS THIS GAME FOR?" Still, I'm very glad someone is taking a big swing at this with a big budget. The industry has shown that difficult and demanding multiplayer games can succeed, and I'm happy that someone is trying to reconfigure RTS to try and be one of those successes in the modern environment. I am not surprised this type of game would feel very fun for a few hours. I don't see how that feeling would last though. They stripped off pretty much all strategic depth from Blizzard RTS formula and even the battles (which is their sole focus) seem nowhere near as interesting as the battles in a Blizzard RTS. | ||
Waxangel
United States33693 Posts
On June 08 2024 18:13 _Spartak_ wrote: I am not surprised this type of game would feel very fun for a few hours. I don't see how that feeling would last though. They stripped off pretty much all strategic depth from Blizzard RTS formula and even the battles (which is their sole focus) seem nowhere near as interesting as the battles in a Blizzard RTS. I don't think there's a serious worry of it literally being a game most people are just interested in for like three hours. The closed test had enough depth with a limited # of units and just one map to keep SC2 vets interested and constantly tinkering for a while. The longevity issues are the ones that afflict any live service game these days, in terms of what kind of update cadence you need to keep people interested for years+, how do you keep each update interesting without complexity/power-creeping the game too fast, etc. | ||
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Miragee
8707 Posts
On June 08 2024 07:27 SoleSteeler wrote: I had the stream on for an hour or more, thinking when is the game going to be announced... trailer starts for "Lightspeed Studios" and I mute it while I finally start googling. Look back and it's the game... lol. Looks good - going through their website now: www.playbattleaces.com Thank you. The trailer itself looks a lot better than the one for Stormgate. However, ingame it's the same bland shit. On June 08 2024 07:37 Hider wrote: I am gonna take on a slightly different angle than I suspect most people will (I guess most people will dislike it for being arena game as opposed to more normal RTS type of map). However, my problem with the gameplay shown is that it doesn't actually contain battle micro. It appears that neither army at any point throughout the game wanted to take a fight and instead always ran away. That's a huge problem. Good RTS fundamentals create incentives in which both players are incentivized to actually fight each other instead of infinitive kiting/running away. It's possibly something that can be fixed but it worries me that David Kim hasn't yet realized its importance and ensured that it happened in their gameplay demo. Getting DoW2 flashbacks. retreatretreatretreatretreat.... And without a great campaign, which DoW2 had, I hardly doubt this is something for me. //I can't believe I'm going to say this but compared to this, Stormgate actually looks exciting. | ||
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Navane
Netherlands2761 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
On June 08 2024 18:13 _Spartak_ wrote: I am not surprised this type of game would feel very fun for a few hours. I don't see how that feeling would last though. They stripped off pretty much all strategic depth from Blizzard RTS formula and even the battles (which is their sole focus) seem nowhere near as interesting as the battles in a Blizzard RTS. Actually, it can increase the strategic depth. In the SC/WC/C&C type RTS the player is locked into a single faction with locked in interactions and timings that happen every game. The baneling, zergling, marine wars have played out milllions of times. In this game the player can set up an infinite # of various combos to create a giant tonne of unique timings. And BAM... the game is over in minutes because the game has a strict time limit. For Gen Z this game is amazing. Nintendo took 13 games from the 80s... jammed them into 1 cartridge and shortened each game into quick narrow competitive settings. Its called "Nintendo World Championships: NES Edition". That game is aimed directly at Gen Z. Gen Z-ers are gobbling up PvP games like competitive Mario Brothers. Not SUPER MARIO.. just plain old 1983 Mario Brothers! Do not bet against Nintendo. Any move they make is well researched. None of this is a guarantee the game will be great. Many things must be executed perfectly for it to turn out great. However, this is a refreshing, and different take on the RTS genre. Given that we are going to see 20+ new RTS games over the next little while .. uniqueness is critical. It is clear David Kim is a very smart guy. Now we know.... David Kim has got balls. It is going to be fun seeing how this game does in the market. Another clear indicator of this games' obvious superiority is that the 2 lead game designers are Canadian.  | ||
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WGT-Baal
France3541 Posts
On June 08 2024 09:24 Latham wrote: YIKES I must be getting old & jaded, because I can't stand to watch this being cast by Artosis & Tasteless for even 5 minutes, let alone consider playing it. 1st of all, why is it so goddamn zoomed in? 2nd of all, no base building... basically you control creeps from any moba. 3rd, a time limit for a match... 4th, non-stop action & micro This ain't it, chief. Not what I am looking for in a future RTS. Am I the only one who wants base building, larger scale engagements and a balance between micro & macro? Starcraft: Brood War, Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition, Armies of Exigo, Warhammer40K: Dawn of War 1... I could go on. This feels like its made for a zoomer audience with an attention span of a goldfish that wants "action!!! now!!!" without any build up to it. I m with you, i like base building. I also like darker graphics/less cartoony. Even sc2 was too cartoony for me. On the other hand, getting rid of the entirety of base building and having the decks may end up being a decent choice. You can also immediately see a path for monetization (selling some decks/units ^^), not that i enjoy the very concept of it, but it does make money. The match timer probably forces to attack? I assume defender advantage must go or something so you don't have a strat to "run down the clock". Overall this feels very mobile/switch friendly which would open up a good market for them, doesn't feel like it s for us old folks. | ||
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ZeroByte13
799 Posts
On June 08 2024 22:15 WGT-Baal wrote: Is there any defender advantage at all beside units spawn point being closer for defender?The match timer probably forces to attack? I assume defender advantage must go or something so you don't have a strat to "run down the clock". There is no static def, it seems, and no proper chokes or highground. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
On June 08 2024 22:18 ZeroByte13 wrote: Is there any defender advantage at all beside units spawn point being closer for defender? There is no static def, it seems, and no proper chokes or highground. Many of the units have a "recall back to nearest base" ability. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27340 Posts
On June 08 2024 22:10 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Actually, it can increase the strategic depth. In the SC/WC/C&C type RTS the player is locked into a single faction with locked in interactions and timings that happen every game. The baneling, zergling, marine wars have played out milllions of times. In this game the player can set up an infinite # of various combos to create a giant tonne of unique timings. And BAM... the game is over in minutes because the game has a strict time limit. For Gen Z this game is amazing. Nintendo took 13 games from the 80s... jammed them into 1 cartridge and shortened each game into quick narrow competitive settings. Its called "Nintendo World Championships: NES Edition". That game is aimed directly at Gen Z. Gen Z-ers are gobbling up PvP games like competitive Mario Brothers. Not SUPER MARIO.. just plain old 1983 Mario Brothers! Do not bet against Nintendo. Any move they make is well researched. None of this is a guarantee the game will be great. Many things must be executed perfectly for it to turn out great. However, this is a refreshing, and different take on the RTS genre. Given that we are going to see 20+ new RTS games over the next little while .. uniqueness is critical. It is clear David Kim is a very smart guy. Now we know.... David Kim has got balls. It is going to be fun seeing how this game does in the market. Another clear indicator of this games' obvious superiority is that the 2 lead game designers are Canadian. I’m really not sure it’s Gen Z who are the primary audience for some of these things, most folks I know who are big into retro gaming skew considerably older. There’s as much evidence of folks quite liking complex and ‘boring’ things as well, chess has been seeing an uptick in popularity to pick one example. It’s an interesting direction anyway, one I’m not sure of personally but we shall see. A million combos and commensurate timings is depth sure, but is it something that one can learn and at least feel a degree of mastery of, or does it become too volatile to properly sink one’s teeth into? There is a line between variety and options that can be crossed where there’s just so many options that it never really feels you actually know what you’re doing. I’ll remain cautiously optimistic I guess, haven’t seen a huge amount of the game. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
On June 08 2024 09:24 Latham wrote: YIKES I must be getting old & jaded, because I can't stand to watch this being cast by Artosis & Tasteless for even 5 minutes, let alone consider playing it. 1st of all, why is it so goddamn zoomed in? 2nd of all, no base building... basically you control creeps from any moba. 3rd, a time limit for a match... 4th, non-stop action & micro This ain't it, chief. Not what I am looking for in a future RTS. Am I the only one who wants base building, larger scale engagements and a balance between micro & macro? Starcraft: Brood War, Age of Empires 2: Definitive Edition, Armies of Exigo, Warhammer40K: Dawn of War 1... I could go on. This feels like its made for a zoomer audience with an attention span of a goldfish that wants "action!!! now!!!" without any build up to it. in North East NA a "Zoomer" is a boomer with an active life style. In North eastern NA We have "Zoomer Radio". Its for old people. To your point, I'd say Uncapped Games isn't aiming at people 30-45 who've been playing SC1/SC2/WC2/WC3 for 25+ years. Similarly, EA isn't trying to use Madden NFL 2024 to attract the crowd that has been playing Super Tecmo Bowl non-stop since 1992. This is prolly Uncapped Games thinking: "There are Starcraft lifers out there... and its a waste of time trying to move them off the game with a similar experience." | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17793 Posts
On June 08 2024 22:58 WombaT wrote: I’m really not sure it’s Gen Z who are the primary audience for some of these things, most folks I know who are big into retro gaming skew considerably older. There’s as much evidence of folks quite liking complex and ‘boring’ things as well, chess has been seeing an uptick in popularity to pick one example. Gen Z and Retro. https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2024/apr/02/why-are-younger-generations-embracing-the-retro-game-revival Article summary: Retro video games and aesthetics are becoming popular among younger generations, not just gen X and older millennials. Pop culture is embracing retro gaming sounds, visuals, and experiences both online and in real life. On platforms like TikTok and YouTube, retro gaming content has seen a significant increase in views and uploads. The allure of retro gaming for millennials like Kingsley Ellis is primarily nostalgia-driven, particularly regarding old gaming hardware and peripherals. Gen Z and gen Alpha are also fascinated by retro tech, evident in various cultural trends and consumer behaviors. The charm of retro devices fosters a "hack and discover" mentality, offering longer-term satisfaction compared to modern tech. Video game soundtracks and graphics are finding new life in artistic contexts, contributing to a positive recontextualization of gaming. Actors and dancers are mimicking NPCs from retro games, adding a contemporary twist to nostalgic elements. For some, the appeal of older games lies in their comfort and simplicity, providing stress relief and mental escape. Retro gaming may offer a sense of stability and comfort amidst technological advances and AI anxiety. Retro games hold cultural significance and are viewed as a piece of history by enthusiasts like Gabi. Modern game studio employees continue to drag real world politics into their games while at the same time having their anti-consumer policies declared illegal by many governments. No thanks. My teenaged nephews and nieces have multi-game MAME arcade cabinets in their basements. They like them. I go to a "Barcade" to play EA NHL '94 competitive tourney and during all ages nights the place is filled with teenagers playing 80s arcade games. There is an immediate tension created when any one goes on a big "high score run". Every second matters ... every move adds to the high score. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5861 Posts
On June 08 2024 10:22 StasisField wrote: Honestly, I thought it looked pretty fun. I'll definitely give it a try and I plan on signing up for the beta. The responses in this thread are pretty much what I expected after watching the gameplay trailer. I think some of y'all are too close-minded to what makes a RTS good. Go outside of your comfort zone a bit and you might find you actually like it. It's not about being close-minded. They made an RTS stripped of most of its depth while claiming that wouldn't be the case. They reduced it to engagements and some rudimentary harassment. There's practically no scouting. Scouting/hiding/denying tech seems pretty much gone. No proxy plays. No scaling or diversification of production. No decisions/race asymmetry regarding how fast you saturate your economy. If I understood correctly, you can't even choose which expansion you take? No simcity. You can't supply block your opponent. You can't destroy their production. No positional play or defender's advantage (those could be fixed). I could probably go on. Maybe the game will be fun, but to pretend that it's not an extremely dumbed down RTS is false advertising. | ||
NonY
8751 Posts
That said, I don’t doubt that it’ll be fun to play and I’m definitely eager to play it. But if they decide later on to give the units more complexity, it’s going to be a massive undertaking as opposed to planning it that way from the ground up. | ||
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_Spartak_
Turkey459 Posts
- Uncapped Games twitter account: 2.756 followers (barely increased after the reveal) - Battle Aces twitter account: 668 followers - Battle Aces discord: 628 members - Battle Aces subreddit: 138 members - Battle Aces youtube account: 385 subscribers with all of the videos under 10k views so far - Battle Aces reveal video at TheGameAwards youtube channel: 3.2k views (one of the least viewed game reveals) People here seem to think this game appeals to a mythical younger audience but it is gaining no traction whatsoever. ZeroSpace had much better numbers than this. | ||
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KingzTig
155 Posts
On June 08 2024 23:42 NonY wrote: I can’t believe the only abilities for 30 units are blink and recall. The fun thing about building a deck in a card game, or doing a draft in a moba, is putting together advanced synergies and creating extreme value. If I’m being invited to build my own faction / unit comp in an RTS then I want a lot more depth to the unit synergies than this. That said, I don’t doubt that it’ll be fun to play and I’m definitely eager to play it. But if they decide later on to give the units more complexity, it’s going to be a massive undertaking as opposed to planning it that way from the ground up. There's also overcharge. Though imo it doesn't matter, the core fun would be the units spec, and how you build the deck and work out a strategy around it. Since its a 10mins time limit, hyper aggression and fast paced, it's less about unit comp doing combos like archon toilet. i am expecting lots of unit wipes, rebuild to a higher tech comp to counter push etc Banelings, snipers, siege tanks all exist. Winter's got a few more games casted and it does look pretty interesting. | ||
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NonY
8751 Posts
I definitely understand that there’s a lot to do tactically with basic units. Figuring out the correct ratios to build them and where to send them and position them is enough to fill your plate. I fully expect to be challenged and engaged for 100+ hours if I choose to play it that much. I’m not shocked at all that sc2/BW pros got hooked and had a lot of fun. But it just seems a bit bizarre to me to simplify even this component of RTS. And I don’t know how new unit releases could possibly be as exciting. When you release a new card or a new hero in a moba, you can go back and look at every existing card and hero to find synergies and bring new life to old things. Bring back old metas etc. Technically that can still happen with basic units but it just seems like such low hanging fruit for a game like this, to make it an objectively better game. A lot more work, definitely, but I get the people calling this game a UMS map and it’s the fact that they seem to have taken the simplification too far. I could also play devil’s advocate and argue for simplicity. But I personally would prefer more to the units. Either give them more complexity by default or have upgrades be another tactical choice between expand/tech/army. | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1981 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33693 Posts
On June 09 2024 02:11 NonY wrote: When you release a new card or a new hero in a moba, you can go back and look at every existing card and hero to find synergies and bring new life to old things. Bring back old metas etc. Technically that can still happen with basic units but it just seems like such low hanging fruit for a game like this, to make it an objectively better game. A lot more work, definitely, but I get the people calling this game a UMS map and it’s the fact that they seem to have taken the simplification too far. I could also play devil’s advocate and argue for simplicity. But I personally would prefer more to the units. Either give them more complexity by default or have upgrades be another tactical choice between expand/tech/army. I asked some Q's during a Q&A about how they're gonna handle what I thought was inevitable power creep/complexity creep to keep the game interesting in the long-term. The answer was kind of a mix of "we'll cross that bridge when we get there"/"that would be a good problem to have." From the closed test, I think that the core game has a lot more depth than people are seeing from the outside (it just PLAYS really well when u get ur hands on it), so I'm not particularly concerned in the short term—let's say a year. But if the game manages to last beyond that, I do think that it'll end up having more active abilities, complicated passives, and all those burden-of-knowledge elements that these types of games inevitably end up having. Maybe it would go against the original thesis of the game, but if it's successful for long enough to warrant such additions, I don't think anyone would be complaining at that point. | ||
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