EPTMaybe there will be heroes, or map objectives like towers or like there were in heroes of the storm, it's hard to say. But it will be interesting to see how they evolve this.
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread - Page 14
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[Phantom]
Mexico2170 Posts
Maybe there will be heroes, or map objectives like towers or like there were in heroes of the storm, it's hard to say. But it will be interesting to see how they evolve this. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
I also think there is a lot to learn from MOBA's. However, please don't give me heroes, minions, jungle camps or other neutral monsters. Also please encourage multitasking and larger armies spread all over the map. | ||
BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
I am not sure there is too much to read into right now. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On December 05 2023 04:07 BluemoonSC wrote: The only real thing that separates RTS from MOBA is a team element, by definition, right? So technically a 4v4 in starcraft is considered a MOBA? I am not sure there is too much to read into right now. I think it's more tied to the production element. E.g. in an RTS you build bases/static-defense/units. Although personally I like to think of MOBA's as more hero-centric and RTS as about controlling more units. An RTS game can have hero-units, but the main army power needs to come from the normal units. In MOBA's it's the other way around. A 1v1 hero-centric game (with almost no other units) doesn't work very well - it will barely have any strategic depth, which is why MOBA's needs to be team-centric. RTS games can't be team-centric but doesn't have to be. In terms of learning from MOBA's. What I think RTS games an learn from MOBA's is how to create cool abilities. MOBA's have spend the past 10 years inventing new abilities/hero-mechanics. Abilities can't be converted 1 to 1 from MOBA's to RTS, but there are concepts there that I think - in a tweaked form - could work for RTS games. Basic RTS micro such as kiting, focus fire and pulling away injured units is fine. But the potential is for so much more than just that. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16968 Posts
On December 05 2023 04:24 Hider wrote: Basic RTS micro such as kiting, focus fire and pulling away injured units is fine. But the potential is for so much more than just that. Even the simple stuff remains super fun if executed extremely well. I prefer to keep things simple rather than having a set of abilities that requires a half credit college course worth of study to optimize. A simple marine drop where I preserve my medivac with only 10 health remaining is a buzz. The rush of stimming blind up a Protoss ramp on a stim pack timing push is great. A great example of this is in hockey video games. EA keeps piling more and more layers of bullshit on their hockey games and it is not improving the fun. NES Ice Hockey and EA NHL '94 have not been topped in terms of fun factor. You can learn how to play these games in 20 minutes or less. Right now, more people are playing competitive EA NHL '94 than every EA NHL game combined except the currently released game. I don't want a bunch of abilities that require a bunch of study to optimize. "Easy to learn..." please. | ||
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elaclark
2 Posts
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elaclark
2 Posts
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-NegativeZero-
United States2142 Posts
On December 05 2023 04:07 BluemoonSC wrote: The only real thing that separates RTS from MOBA is a team element, by definition, right? So technically a 4v4 in starcraft is considered a MOBA? I am not sure there is too much to read into right now. I consider MOBAs to be competitive action-RPGs, there's actually very little in them that's unique to RTS games. | ||
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annawood
United States1 Post
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Hider
Denmark9407 Posts
On December 05 2023 04:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Even the simple stuff remains super fun if executed extremely well. I prefer to keep things simple rather than having a set of abilities that requires a half credit college course worth of study to optimize. A simple marine drop where I preserve my medivac with only 10 health remaining is a buzz. The rush of stimming blind up a Protoss ramp on a stim pack timing push is great. A great example of this is in hockey video games. EA keeps piling more and more layers of bullshit on their hockey games and it is not improving the fun. NES Ice Hockey and EA NHL '94 have not been topped in terms of fun factor. You can learn how to play these games in 20 minutes or less. Right now, more people are playing competitive EA NHL '94 than every EA NHL game combined except the currently released game. I don't want a bunch of abilities that require a bunch of study to optimize. "Easy to learn..." please. Yeh it's great. However, abilities if done well can enhance it. Abilities don't need to increase learning barrier noticeably, but can increase skillcap and creativity significantly. One thing the RTS genre needs to reduce the skill floor is to make it possible to use abilities without having to click units. This could be done with having an ability hotkey tied to certain units. The game would need to be designed around this, but I think it's essential. | ||
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hTx.diorcus
1 Post
Why not just remake a boardgame/marioparty-esque game that is strategically charged? I'm guessing they want to make a strawberry shortcake in a realm of wedding cakes, but are using muffin materials. A challenging experience for sure, but what of the cake lovers? Who's to say they will want to bake the cake and eat it two(II)? | ||
Mizenhauer
United States1900 Posts
On December 05 2023 21:39 hTx.diorcus wrote: Wants to decrease barrier of entry to RTS? Don't they have TBS? (turn-based-strategy)? Asking for myself (a marvel fan) who thinks that Marvel Snap and (Artifact) were decent turn-based-strategy games. Why not just remake a boardgame/marioparty-esque game that is strategically charged? I'm guessing they want to make a strawberry shortcake in a realm of wedding cakes, but are using muffin materials. A challenging experience for sure, but what of the cake lovers? Who's to say they will want to bake the cake and eat it two(II)? We just found the only artifact fan in the world. | ||
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BluemoonSC
SoCal8910 Posts
On December 05 2023 14:29 -NegativeZero- wrote: I consider MOBAs to be competitive action-RPGs, there's actually very little in them that's unique to RTS games. As a genre, "real time strategy" is extremely broad and lest we forget that MOBAs were birthed from RTS customs. If we're talking about how much Dota has in common with Starcraft, on the surface it might not seem like a lot but the fact remains that in both games you are making decisions in real-time and they are both strategy games. They have an economy, builds, micro and macro-management of your "army," and "base," etc. | ||
Waxangel
United States33479 Posts
Nothing tangible yet (the basically required spiel about making RTS more accessible), but interesting to hear that 30% of the company is ppl with ___Craft experience and they apparently have one of the key concept artists for SC2 on board? | ||
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Blargh
United States2103 Posts
On December 20 2023 14:36 Waxangel wrote: Some small tidbits about the upcoming game here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mCxTtiAHcg&t=10440s Nothing tangible yet (the basically required spiel about making RTS more accessible), but interesting to hear that 30% of the company is ppl with ___Craft experience and they apparently have one of the key concept artists for SC2 on board? Well, does ___ Craft experience include World of Warcraft, because I believe that was always Blizz's biggest team, and is also the least relevant to RTS  At least it sounds like they are interested in maintaining a large amount of community engagement and pro-player engagement. It helps that everyone will be playing the alternative RTS games betas soon too, and players can get a feel for what works and doesn't work from other RTS games too. I'm pretty curious to see what will pan out in the next 2-5 years. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada16968 Posts
On December 05 2023 20:25 Hider wrote: Yeh it's great. However, abilities if done well can enhance it. Abilities don't need to increase learning barrier noticeably, but can increase skillcap and creativity significantly. i agree. | ||
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namkraft
507 Posts
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CicadaSC
United States1821 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/WeCGmEt.png) there was a new job posting January 4th and one of the pluses they listed corroborates with my previous theory as to what the game could look like. | ||
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CicadaSC
United States1821 Posts
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/iyzbAI4.png) They once again reiterate in this job posting that the game will be a "paradigm shift" for the genre. | ||
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Comedy
461 Posts
It sorts of feelings like playing an arcade map in UMS, rather than playing a real game. Huge part of the game is just missing when you remove macro from the game, which seems to be the solution to all these developers to make the game more accesible to casuals. Why does nobody realise that Macro and base building are actually a fun part of RTS? | ||
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