• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:22
CET 04:22
KST 12:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.174Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League92
StarCraft 2
General
No more SC2 streamers on team liquid? How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 Evil Geniuses - shutting down REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Rollback Netcode in Brood War SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup Sagi.gg Launcher Released Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away.
Tourneys
Small VOD Thread 2.0 [Women's StarCraft] MonstarZ vs BA 2026-10-30 [IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine R I P Patrick Stewart European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 10486 users

Immortal: Gates of Pyre - F2P RTS from SC community - Page 5

Forum Index > General Games
95 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27471 Posts
September 18 2024 19:06 GMT
#81
Man my eyes glaze over at even the most passing reference to Web3, hopefully it doesn’t fuck up what looks a promising project
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12904 Posts
September 19 2024 07:59 GMT
#82
Well if it's just to make skin tradable by players, what's the downside other than people hating on web3/nft. What makes non tradable skin like league of legends better.

The only downside I can see if they would need to run another client that has no web3 stuff to be on steam
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-19 17:04:27
September 19 2024 10:38 GMT
#83
Well if it's just to make skin tradable by players [..] What makes non tradable skin like league of legends better.


That's easy without this junk, so it's not a benefit for us. It makes development longer and more complex, not easier. Skins aren't tradeable in LoL because the developers don't want them to be as part of the business model design, it has nothing to do with any technical limitation and so isn't a meaningful part of the discussion. It's just a red herring, a hook to trick people who don't know any better into thinking that they are recieving some benefit, but they're not. In that context, what is it doing for YOU? That is a difficult question and not one that anyone is able to provide a good answer for.

Flip it around - what is it doing for the developer and sponsor? It's there because it maliciously drains money from players and gives it to devs and their sponsors, directly or indirectly, in easier, earlier and larger amounts (sometimes) than creating an actually valuable product. It's as simple as that, and nobody trying to sell or push it has your interests in mind. The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money.

There is a graveyard piled high with dead games and scammed players wherever this business model goes. Sometimes devs and sponsors make bank, sometimes they lose it all, but the players lost every single time. This is why it's outright banned on Steam, and they're trying to bend over backwards to circumvent those regulations while still scamming players.

Sunspear fucked over all of their kickstarter backers in an attempt to do this, and from taking a look at how discussion around the topic is being handled (lied about and also deleted instantly on every channel that the devs control.. for example they made a quarantine channel for it on discord before making the announcement, deleted any discussion outside of that channel, and then later deleted the channel itself for an easy purge of all of the protests and information) i am sure beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew beforehand that it would be extremely unpopular to the point of sinking whatever is left of the game and community. They act to make it as difficult as possible for the remnants of the hooked people to realise that they got scammed.

If it were on the kickstarter, it wouldn't have been backed.

They (JaKaTaK and his team) got paid big to throw us and the game under the bus post-kickstarter, and they did. Remember their names.

It's not a huge shock with the project grappling with failure while 2-3+ years behind schedule, but it's always disappointing. Being an RTS fan these days is like https://theonion.com/man-who-thought-hed-lost-all-hope-loses-last-additional-1819565674/
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
blunderfulguy
Profile Blog Joined April 2016
United States1415 Posts
September 19 2024 15:24 GMT
#84
Well that sucks. Taking the CS/DotA route for tradeable cosmetics wouldn't make me feel one way or the other but doing anything with blockchain/NFT/web3 even without a Kickstarter instantly turns it into "avoid at all costs" for me.

Before it felt like "yet another cool-but-probably doomed RTS" and now it's flashing with red lights and sirens.

Actually a huge bummer. I wrote some short fiction and played a little tabletop RPG adventure in the setting a whole back whole waiting to see news about a big update or something. Now I'm mentally throwing it in the trash.
Blunder Man doing everything thing a blunder can.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33712 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-19 17:10:06
September 19 2024 17:08 GMT
#85
On September 19 2024 19:38 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Well if it's just to make skin tradable by players [..] What makes non tradable skin like league of legends better.


The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money.


...So what makes it a scam? If it's functionally just some silly layer of blockchain tech to enable tradeable collectables, what's the big deal? Players will buy cosmetic items if they like them, and they won't by them if they don't. And if a tiny # of players who still believe in NFT's/whatever want to buy collectibles speculatively, then more power to them
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20345 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-19 17:38:09
September 19 2024 17:15 GMT
#86
On September 20 2024 02:08 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 19 2024 19:38 Cyro wrote:
Well if it's just to make skin tradable by players [..] What makes non tradable skin like league of legends better.


The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money.


...So what makes it a scam? If it's functionally just some silly layer of blockchain tech to enable tradeable collectables, what's the big deal? Players will buy cosmetic items if they like them, and they won't by them if they don't. And if a tiny # of players who still believe in NFT's/whatever want to buy collectibles speculatively, then more power to them


It's a scam because toxic monetisation (e.g. unregulated gambling, stealing and pump-and-dump schemes) is the only advantage that this "web3" stuff has over normal game store and trading systems which are much easier to create and much more popular (for good reasons). Due to that, nobody uses "web3" unless abusing said toxic advantages are the express intent of the feature and sponsorship - especially given the mountain of skeletons in its closet from these prior abuses.. which, by the way, were almost all sold in this exact way. It's 2024 and while some people took the fall in the first round, we know better now.
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12904 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-20 03:52:26
September 20 2024 03:44 GMT
#87
On September 19 2024 19:38 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
Well if it's just to make skin tradable by players [..] What makes non tradable skin like league of legends better.


That's easy without this junk, so it's not a benefit for us. It makes development longer and more complex, not easier. Skins aren't tradeable in LoL because the developers don't want them to be as part of the business model design, it has nothing to do with any technical limitation and so isn't a meaningful part of the discussion. It's just a red herring, a hook to trick people who don't know any better into thinking that they are recieving some benefit, but they're not. In that context, what is it doing for YOU? That is a difficult question and not one that anyone is able to provide a good answer for.

Flip it around - what is it doing for the developer and sponsor? It's there because it maliciously drains money from players and gives it to devs and their sponsors, directly or indirectly, in easier, earlier and larger amounts (sometimes) than creating an actually valuable product. It's as simple as that, and nobody trying to sell or push it has your interests in mind. The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money.

There is a graveyard piled high with dead games and scammed players wherever this business model goes. Sometimes devs and sponsors make bank, sometimes they lose it all, but the players lost every single time. This is why it's outright banned on Steam, and they're trying to bend over backwards to circumvent those regulations while still scamming players.

Sunspear fucked over all of their kickstarter backers in an attempt to do this, and from taking a look at how discussion around the topic is being handled (lied about and also deleted instantly on every channel that the devs control.. for example they made a quarantine channel for it on discord before making the announcement, deleted any discussion outside of that channel, and then later deleted the channel itself for an easy purge of all of the protests and information) i am sure beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew beforehand that it would be extremely unpopular to the point of sinking whatever is left of the game and community. They act to make it as difficult as possible for the remnants of the hooked people to realise that they got scammed.

If it were on the kickstarter, it wouldn't have been backed.

They (JaKaTaK and his team) got paid big to throw us and the game under the bus post-kickstarter, and they did. Remember their names.

It's not a huge shock with the project grappling with failure while 2-3+ years behind schedule, but it's always disappointing. Being an RTS fan these days is like https://theonion.com/man-who-thought-hed-lost-all-hope-loses-last-additional-1819565674/

You have written a lot but didn't exactly explain why it's a scam?

No one asks about how information and assets are stored, which cloud server provider etc.
Sure it MAY add to development cost, but...they are literally getting money to develop the game which includes this extra work.

I honestly have yet to see any legit argument, the game is good, and you can buy skin.
You can pay for the skin and don't trade it, just like any other games.
You don't want skin then don't buy the skin.

What it allows is players who want to trade can trade. I don't intend to trade but intend to buy skin. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to in the future. Can YOU trade your league of legend skin?

If they don't implement it and the game doesn't get the funding it needs, then it sure is a good option other than non objective hatred against nft.

And of course yes, payable content should and will always be money going to the company and its sponsors. Where should that money go otherwise?

I am just confused what's the controversy all about. Kickstarter backers getting their skin and able to trade essentially. Like they got what would have been a one time purchase into a collectible.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12904 Posts
September 20 2024 03:55 GMT
#88
On September 20 2024 02:15 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2024 02:08 Waxangel wrote:
On September 19 2024 19:38 Cyro wrote:
Well if it's just to make skin tradable by players [..] What makes non tradable skin like league of legends better.


The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money.


...So what makes it a scam? If it's functionally just some silly layer of blockchain tech to enable tradeable collectables, what's the big deal? Players will buy cosmetic items if they like them, and they won't by them if they don't. And if a tiny # of players who still believe in NFT's/whatever want to buy collectibles speculatively, then more power to them


It's a scam because toxic monetisation (e.g. unregulated gambling, stealing and pump-and-dump schemes) is the only advantage that this "web3" stuff has over normal game store and trading systems which are much easier to create and much more popular (for good reasons). Due to that, nobody uses "web3" unless abusing said toxic advantages are the express intent of the feature and sponsorship - especially given the mountain of skeletons in its closet from these prior abuses.. which, by the way, were almost all sold in this exact way. It's 2024 and while some people took the fall in the first round, we know better now.

So you mean like a collectible market?
Literally you turn a one time purchased skin to a tradable one. Even if it dumps 99.999% you are matching what a normal system is.
How's anyone supposed to get taken advantaged from here?
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27471 Posts
September 20 2024 11:13 GMT
#89
Whether they’re correct or logical about it or not, gamers tend to hate this Web3 stuff. So purely from a goodwill perspective it’s wise to steer well clear

As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them?
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12904 Posts
September 20 2024 22:52 GMT
#90
On September 20 2024 20:13 WombaT wrote:
Whether they’re correct or logical about it or not, gamers tend to hate this Web3 stuff. So purely from a goodwill perspective it’s wise to steer well clear

As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them?

Sure but that's not the problem of the tech but perception of it.
There is technical limitations to sell skin in a common market place that doesn't only sell your skin. Eg it is selling on a more open market.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Creager
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany1966 Posts
September 24 2024 10:00 GMT
#91
On September 21 2024 07:52 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 20 2024 20:13 WombaT wrote:
Whether they’re correct or logical about it or not, gamers tend to hate this Web3 stuff. So purely from a goodwill perspective it’s wise to steer well clear

As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them?

Sure but that's not the problem of the tech but perception of it.
There is technical limitations to sell skin in a common market place that doesn't only sell your skin. Eg it is selling on a more open market.


Not to get into a fundamental discussion but if the tech is not the problem, what issues that were existent did Crypto solve exactly and why is it beneficial for users?
... einmal mit Profis spielen!
TelecoM
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States10890 Posts
September 24 2024 12:33 GMT
#92
When are you able to play / planned release / demo and or beta? Looks cool.
AKA: TelecoM[WHITE] Protoss fighting
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12904 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-24 13:58:02
September 24 2024 13:20 GMT
#93
On September 24 2024 19:00 Creager wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 21 2024 07:52 ETisME wrote:
On September 20 2024 20:13 WombaT wrote:
Whether they’re correct or logical about it or not, gamers tend to hate this Web3 stuff. So purely from a goodwill perspective it’s wise to steer well clear

As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them?

Sure but that's not the problem of the tech but perception of it.
There is technical limitations to sell skin in a common market place that doesn't only sell your skin. Eg it is selling on a more open market.


Not to get into a fundamental discussion but if the tech is not the problem, what issues that were existent did Crypto solve exactly and why is it beneficial for users?

You are able to sell on an open market. has there even been any games that have a market that sell skins with cross platform/cross game on a non gaming platform? probably can be done without crypto, but there's a reason why it has always been only a dedicated platform for one game.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland27471 Posts
September 24 2024 14:00 GMT
#94
On September 24 2024 22:20 ETisME wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2024 19:00 Creager wrote:
On September 21 2024 07:52 ETisME wrote:
On September 20 2024 20:13 WombaT wrote:
Whether they’re correct or logical about it or not, gamers tend to hate this Web3 stuff. So purely from a goodwill perspective it’s wise to steer well clear

As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them?

Sure but that's not the problem of the tech but perception of it.
There is technical limitations to sell skin in a common market place that doesn't only sell your skin. Eg it is selling on a more open market.


Not to get into a fundamental discussion but if the tech is not the problem, what issues that were existent did Crypto solve exactly and why is it beneficial for users?

You are able to sell on an open market. has there even been any games that have a market that sell skins with cross platform/cross game on a non gaming platform? probably can be done without crypto, but there's a reason why it has always been only a dedicated platform for one game.

Is it a feature people interested in this particular game would be interested in? It just doesn’t seem a great fit

'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
TL+ Member
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12904 Posts
Last Edited: 2024-09-24 21:48:25
September 24 2024 21:46 GMT
#95
On September 24 2024 23:00 WombaT wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 24 2024 22:20 ETisME wrote:
On September 24 2024 19:00 Creager wrote:
On September 21 2024 07:52 ETisME wrote:
On September 20 2024 20:13 WombaT wrote:
Whether they’re correct or logical about it or not, gamers tend to hate this Web3 stuff. So purely from a goodwill perspective it’s wise to steer well clear

As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them?

Sure but that's not the problem of the tech but perception of it.
There is technical limitations to sell skin in a common market place that doesn't only sell your skin. Eg it is selling on a more open market.


Not to get into a fundamental discussion but if the tech is not the problem, what issues that were existent did Crypto solve exactly and why is it beneficial for users?

You are able to sell on an open market. has there even been any games that have a market that sell skins with cross platform/cross game on a non gaming platform? probably can be done without crypto, but there's a reason why it has always been only a dedicated platform for one game.

Is it a feature people interested in this particular game would be interested in? It just doesn’t seem a great fit


Like I said, depends how it is implemented. If there's a store to buy the skin then what's the difference? Magic the gathering or Pokemon trading cards were never meant to have a market for collector yet here we are.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
Xiphias
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Norway2223 Posts
November 12 2024 19:40 GMT
#96
There's gonna be another public playtest from 22nd of Nov to 24th of Nov. Should work to play from steam on those days: https://store.steampowered.com/app/2921580/IMMORTAL_Gates_of_Pyre/
aka KanBan85. Working on Starbow.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 8h 39m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ViBE161
CosmosSc2 72
SortOf 0
StarCraft: Brood War
GuemChi 2060
ProTech143
Force[name] 6
Dewaltoss 0
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm168
League of Legends
Doublelift3960
JimRising 642
Counter-Strike
taco 618
Other Games
summit1g10011
Coldzera 704
WinterStarcraft381
C9.Mang0172
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• davetesta25
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• Azhi_Dahaki26
• Pr0nogo 5
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt121
Other Games
• Scarra1025
Upcoming Events
GSL
8h 39m
Epic.LAN
9h 39m
Big Brain Bouts
13h 39m
OSC
18h 39m
Replay Cast
19h 39m
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 6h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 8h
Epic.LAN
1d 9h
IPSL
1d 12h
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
AI Arena Tournament
1d 14h
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
Yamato Cup
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
2 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
3 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-28
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.