EPTImmortal: Gates of Pyre - F2P RTS from SC community - Page 5
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27339 Posts
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ETisME
12866 Posts
The only downside I can see if they would need to run another client that has no web3 stuff to be on steam | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
Well if it's just to make skin tradable by players [..] What makes non tradable skin like league of legends better. That's easy without this junk, so it's not a benefit for us. It makes development longer and more complex, not easier. Skins aren't tradeable in LoL because the developers don't want them to be as part of the business model design, it has nothing to do with any technical limitation and so isn't a meaningful part of the discussion. It's just a red herring, a hook to trick people who don't know any better into thinking that they are recieving some benefit, but they're not. In that context, what is it doing for YOU? That is a difficult question and not one that anyone is able to provide a good answer for. Flip it around - what is it doing for the developer and sponsor? It's there because it maliciously drains money from players and gives it to devs and their sponsors, directly or indirectly, in easier, earlier and larger amounts (sometimes) than creating an actually valuable product. It's as simple as that, and nobody trying to sell or push it has your interests in mind. The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money. There is a graveyard piled high with dead games and scammed players wherever this business model goes. Sometimes devs and sponsors make bank, sometimes they lose it all, but the players lost every single time. This is why it's outright banned on Steam, and they're trying to bend over backwards to circumvent those regulations while still scamming players. Sunspear fucked over all of their kickstarter backers in an attempt to do this, and from taking a look at how discussion around the topic is being handled (lied about and also deleted instantly on every channel that the devs control.. for example they made a quarantine channel for it on discord before making the announcement, deleted any discussion outside of that channel, and then later deleted the channel itself for an easy purge of all of the protests and information) i am sure beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew beforehand that it would be extremely unpopular to the point of sinking whatever is left of the game and community. They act to make it as difficult as possible for the remnants of the hooked people to realise that they got scammed. If it were on the kickstarter, it wouldn't have been backed. They (JaKaTaK and his team) got paid big to throw us and the game under the bus post-kickstarter, and they did. Remember their names. It's not a huge shock with the project grappling with failure while 2-3+ years behind schedule, but it's always disappointing. Being an RTS fan these days is like https://theonion.com/man-who-thought-hed-lost-all-hope-loses-last-additional-1819565674/ | ||
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blunderfulguy
United States1415 Posts
Before it felt like "yet another cool-but-probably doomed RTS" and now it's flashing with red lights and sirens. Actually a huge bummer. I wrote some short fiction and played a little tabletop RPG adventure in the setting a whole back whole waiting to see news about a big update or something. Now I'm mentally throwing it in the trash. | ||
Waxangel
United States33693 Posts
On September 19 2024 19:38 Cyro wrote: The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money. ...So what makes it a scam? If it's functionally just some silly layer of blockchain tech to enable tradeable collectables, what's the big deal? Players will buy cosmetic items if they like them, and they won't by them if they don't. And if a tiny # of players who still believe in NFT's/whatever want to buy collectibles speculatively, then more power to them  | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20343 Posts
On September 20 2024 02:08 Waxangel wrote: ...So what makes it a scam? If it's functionally just some silly layer of blockchain tech to enable tradeable collectables, what's the big deal? Players will buy cosmetic items if they like them, and they won't by them if they don't. And if a tiny # of players who still believe in NFT's/whatever want to buy collectibles speculatively, then more power to them It's a scam because toxic monetisation (e.g. unregulated gambling, stealing and pump-and-dump schemes) is the only advantage that this "web3" stuff has over normal game store and trading systems which are much easier to create and much more popular (for good reasons). Due to that, nobody uses "web3" unless abusing said toxic advantages are the express intent of the feature and sponsorship - especially given the mountain of skeletons in its closet from these prior abuses.. which, by the way, were almost all sold in this exact way. It's 2024 and while some people took the fall in the first round, we know better now. | ||
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ETisME
12866 Posts
On September 19 2024 19:38 Cyro wrote: That's easy without this junk, so it's not a benefit for us. It makes development longer and more complex, not easier. Skins aren't tradeable in LoL because the developers don't want them to be as part of the business model design, it has nothing to do with any technical limitation and so isn't a meaningful part of the discussion. It's just a red herring, a hook to trick people who don't know any better into thinking that they are recieving some benefit, but they're not. In that context, what is it doing for YOU? That is a difficult question and not one that anyone is able to provide a good answer for. Flip it around - what is it doing for the developer and sponsor? It's there because it maliciously drains money from players and gives it to devs and their sponsors, directly or indirectly, in easier, earlier and larger amounts (sometimes) than creating an actually valuable product. It's as simple as that, and nobody trying to sell or push it has your interests in mind. The developer got paid by the sponsor and that sponsor expects to make more money than they spent via scamming the game players and backers - why else would they pay for access to the playerbase? Follow the money. There is a graveyard piled high with dead games and scammed players wherever this business model goes. Sometimes devs and sponsors make bank, sometimes they lose it all, but the players lost every single time. This is why it's outright banned on Steam, and they're trying to bend over backwards to circumvent those regulations while still scamming players. Sunspear fucked over all of their kickstarter backers in an attempt to do this, and from taking a look at how discussion around the topic is being handled (lied about and also deleted instantly on every channel that the devs control.. for example they made a quarantine channel for it on discord before making the announcement, deleted any discussion outside of that channel, and then later deleted the channel itself for an easy purge of all of the protests and information) i am sure beyond a reasonable doubt that they knew beforehand that it would be extremely unpopular to the point of sinking whatever is left of the game and community. They act to make it as difficult as possible for the remnants of the hooked people to realise that they got scammed. If it were on the kickstarter, it wouldn't have been backed. They (JaKaTaK and his team) got paid big to throw us and the game under the bus post-kickstarter, and they did. Remember their names. It's not a huge shock with the project grappling with failure while 2-3+ years behind schedule, but it's always disappointing. Being an RTS fan these days is like https://theonion.com/man-who-thought-hed-lost-all-hope-loses-last-additional-1819565674/ You have written a lot but didn't exactly explain why it's a scam? No one asks about how information and assets are stored, which cloud server provider etc. Sure it MAY add to development cost, but...they are literally getting money to develop the game which includes this extra work. I honestly have yet to see any legit argument, the game is good, and you can buy skin. You can pay for the skin and don't trade it, just like any other games. You don't want skin then don't buy the skin. What it allows is players who want to trade can trade. I don't intend to trade but intend to buy skin. Doesn't mean I wouldn't want to in the future. Can YOU trade your league of legend skin? If they don't implement it and the game doesn't get the funding it needs, then it sure is a good option other than non objective hatred against nft. And of course yes, payable content should and will always be money going to the company and its sponsors. Where should that money go otherwise? I am just confused what's the controversy all about. Kickstarter backers getting their skin and able to trade essentially. Like they got what would have been a one time purchase into a collectible. | ||
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ETisME
12866 Posts
On September 20 2024 02:15 Cyro wrote: It's a scam because toxic monetisation (e.g. unregulated gambling, stealing and pump-and-dump schemes) is the only advantage that this "web3" stuff has over normal game store and trading systems which are much easier to create and much more popular (for good reasons). Due to that, nobody uses "web3" unless abusing said toxic advantages are the express intent of the feature and sponsorship - especially given the mountain of skeletons in its closet from these prior abuses.. which, by the way, were almost all sold in this exact way. It's 2024 and while some people took the fall in the first round, we know better now. So you mean like a collectible market? Literally you turn a one time purchased skin to a tradable one. Even if it dumps 99.999% you are matching what a normal system is. How's anyone supposed to get taken advantaged from here? | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27339 Posts
As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them? | ||
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ETisME
12866 Posts
On September 20 2024 20:13 WombaT wrote: Whether they’re correct or logical about it or not, gamers tend to hate this Web3 stuff. So purely from a goodwill perspective it’s wise to steer well clear As Cyro points out there’s no technical limitation preventing trading of assets that requires the use of NFTs to resolve. So why use them? Sure but that's not the problem of the tech but perception of it. There is technical limitations to sell skin in a common market place that doesn't only sell your skin. Eg it is selling on a more open market. | ||
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Creager
Germany1962 Posts
On September 21 2024 07:52 ETisME wrote: Sure but that's not the problem of the tech but perception of it. There is technical limitations to sell skin in a common market place that doesn't only sell your skin. Eg it is selling on a more open market. Not to get into a fundamental discussion but if the tech is not the problem, what issues that were existent did Crypto solve exactly and why is it beneficial for users? | ||
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TelecoM
United States10846 Posts
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ETisME
12866 Posts
On September 24 2024 19:00 Creager wrote: Not to get into a fundamental discussion but if the tech is not the problem, what issues that were existent did Crypto solve exactly and why is it beneficial for users? You are able to sell on an open market. has there even been any games that have a market that sell skins with cross platform/cross game on a non gaming platform? probably can be done without crypto, but there's a reason why it has always been only a dedicated platform for one game. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27339 Posts
On September 24 2024 22:20 ETisME wrote: You are able to sell on an open market. has there even been any games that have a market that sell skins with cross platform/cross game on a non gaming platform? probably can be done without crypto, but there's a reason why it has always been only a dedicated platform for one game. Is it a feature people interested in this particular game would be interested in? It just doesn’t seem a great fit | ||
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ETisME
12866 Posts
On September 24 2024 23:00 WombaT wrote: Is it a feature people interested in this particular game would be interested in? It just doesn’t seem a great fit Like I said, depends how it is implemented. If there's a store to buy the skin then what's the difference? Magic the gathering or Pokemon trading cards were never meant to have a market for collector yet here we are. | ||
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Xiphias
Norway2223 Posts
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