On November 11 2022 03:31 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: The problem with stat allocation is that it is a false choice. In Maplestory half the stats do literally nothing for your character and then one gives you damage and one is for equipment or accuracy. It's trivial to understand the optimal stat allocation which means there is no value in the player doing it. Diablo 2 has almost the same problem where the optimal is to put everything into vit with just enough str/dex for equipment/block cap.
Energy has low value in D2 but both str and dex you can find your own balance for depending not just on what weapon you want to reach requirements for, but for how much you want to be able to hit and how much you can hit for cause str gives you +% damage bonus per point and dex also has such an effect on ranged weapons. Dumping as much as you can into vitality works but you would increase your health pool at the cost of hit power and your hit power also impacts your survivability so.. on my HC chars I don't usually put all points into vitality. Also depends on build and class, also if using shield depends on which shield you are using as it may cost a lot to get the +75% block.. Energy still has some value for putting a few points in it (still some choice to make as to exactly how much you put into it) and
I'll add that my diablo 2 stat allocation is specific to non-hit builds like a hammerdin. That is why I added the almost in there because some builds are basically locked into vit while others have slightly more variation. It's not Maplestory false choice, but there are some traps setup that aren't intuitive. I'd focus on energy being a dumb stat in the game more than str/dex options for some hit builds.
On November 11 2022 06:24 ProMeTheus112 wrote: depending again on class and build if you're not using insight (imo adding insight into the game was one of the actual mistakes, look how many uniques are invalidated by runewords like insight or spirit when comparing rarity). Before 1.10 you can't even buy mana potions from NPCs so you want to have enough energy to sustain your kills as you drop mana potions. Well and mana steal plays into that.
I'd argue exactly the opposite about insight. Having to constantly chug potions is just bad game design. What Diablo needed was insight or ways to keep mana sustain from the beginning so all the game systems could be designed around it.
On November 11 2022 06:24 ProMeTheus112 wrote: I like stat allocation a lot and I think Elden Ring gives quite a great example of how you can have 8 stats in the game and allow for a lot of different allocations.
I'd say most people like stat allocation which is what I was hinting at with the Diablo 3 comment. It just needs to be done in the way where there is meaningful choices for the player.
Regarding stat allocation in D2 I think they fumbled by not re-introducing hard caps at different points for different classes as it was in D1. It made each class more unique this way, when you couldn't get max block, use heavier armors or have high hp pool as sorcerer, had high str and vit but couldn't max dex as warrior etc.
It's definitely not perfect in D2 and I can agree ofc that having to chug potions constantly by default can be rather annoying. So something like insight does bring a kind of "fix" to that while also being in a odd balance spot vs the other items since that's not all it brings and invalidating a stat to an extent. [well even without insight energy isn't super valuable much of the time, also no real need to bring insight and not using it still opens up other options etc. I think mostly if you're not trying to rush, and you watch your mana efficiency in your build and place some energy points, and perhaps use mana leech and stuff then it really does work as originally intended, without having to be weird with storing and chugging mana potions.]
I think its ok if there is assymetry in the stats of course in terms of how much points in them can be worth, its just D2 has only 4 attribute stats and one has limited value, and then indeed for a certain array of builds that part can get even more simplistic if you want to disregard hitting with weapons.
On November 11 2022 11:24 ProMeTheus112 wrote: It's definitely not perfect in D2 and I can agree ofc that having to chug potions constantly by default can be rather annoying. So something like insight does bring a kind of "fix" to that while also being in a odd balance spot vs the other items since that's not all it brings and invalidating a stat to an extent. [well even without insight energy isn't super valuable much of the time, also no real need to bring insight and not using it still opens up other options etc. I think mostly if you're not trying to rush, and you watch your mana efficiency in your build and place some energy points, and perhaps use mana leech and stuff then it really does work as originally intended, without having to be weird with storing and chugging mana potions.]
I think its ok if there is assymetry in the stats of course in terms of how much points in them can be worth, its just D2 has only 4 attribute stats and one has limited value, and then indeed for a certain array of builds that part can get even more simplistic if you want to disregard hitting with weapons.
A large part of this design stems from the fact that when D2 was originally released, you couldn't actually buy mana potions from shops - the only way to get them was to find them.
On November 11 2022 11:24 ProMeTheus112 wrote: It's definitely not perfect in D2 and I can agree ofc that having to chug potions constantly by default can be rather annoying. So something like insight does bring a kind of "fix" to that while also being in a odd balance spot vs the other items since that's not all it brings and invalidating a stat to an extent. [well even without insight energy isn't super valuable much of the time, also no real need to bring insight and not using it still opens up other options etc. I think mostly if you're not trying to rush, and you watch your mana efficiency in your build and place some energy points, and perhaps use mana leech and stuff then it really does work as originally intended, without having to be weird with storing and chugging mana potions.]
I think its ok if there is assymetry in the stats of course in terms of how much points in them can be worth, its just D2 has only 4 attribute stats and one has limited value, and then indeed for a certain array of builds that part can get even more simplistic if you want to disregard hitting with weapons.
A large part of this design stems from the fact that when D2 was originally released, you couldn't actually buy mana potions from shops - the only way to get them was to find them.
Yeah I actually think that 1.09 was better in some ways : P (no buying mana potions, no OP 1.10 runewords, most higher runes are meant to be slotted into uniques or rares for their bonus, +100% to monsters hp per player in the game, no synergies inducing simplistic builds that destroy everything especially when teaming up and some more. There's probably a bunch of good changes in 1.10 though such as cow level gains rebalance and other)
It seems to me that by turning it into open world and live service they're just creating problems for themselves that they didn't need to. It also looks kinda like Lost Ark but darker instead of its own thing.
On November 11 2022 11:24 ProMeTheus112 wrote: It's definitely not perfect in D2 and I can agree ofc that having to chug potions constantly by default can be rather annoying. So something like insight does bring a kind of "fix" to that while also being in a odd balance spot vs the other items since that's not all it brings and invalidating a stat to an extent. [well even without insight energy isn't super valuable much of the time, also no real need to bring insight and not using it still opens up other options etc. I think mostly if you're not trying to rush, and you watch your mana efficiency in your build and place some energy points, and perhaps use mana leech and stuff then it really does work as originally intended, without having to be weird with storing and chugging mana potions.]
I think its ok if there is assymetry in the stats of course in terms of how much points in them can be worth, its just D2 has only 4 attribute stats and one has limited value, and then indeed for a certain array of builds that part can get even more simplistic if you want to disregard hitting with weapons.
For almost every build I ever played in D2, it was more cut and dried. Any build that can mana leech should mana leech. Any build that can't resorts to chugging potions.
In theory, D3 had a good system where certain skills would charge your "mana" resource and it would charge differently for each class. In practice, after power creep, most builds would just spam the mana spenders and the mana generators were barely used.
On November 15 2022 03:33 andrewlt wrote: For almost every build I ever played in D2, it was more cut and dried. Any build that can mana leech should mana leech. Any build that can't resorts to chugging potions.
For me I don't always need mana leech on my builds, i almost always put a few points in energy but not a lot, if my build works with drinking fewer mana potions than I'm dropping from monsters I'd say it's in a good spot ; and instead it gets weird when you're having to store a lot of potions in inventory and spam drink them + spam mana expensive spells which you'd do early on with builds based on maxed mana expensive high damage synergized spells while you don't have insight user around (for rushing especially) which is kinda the 1 most efficient way to XP to high level with a group, easy etc, though you'll likely lack gear at the end of the rush. Some builds like to have a lot of extra energy like sorc with a powerful energy shield but it's kinda rare. Nowadays since they made non-A2 mercs much more comparable, insight isn't as common and there's more benefit to playing without it so that's nice.
i wish a transcript existed because its a long vid but its not often you get some direct insight from someone like jay wilson into how development works at blizzard.
some streamers that have played the latest access version have given very positive reviews about the game so far. obviously no end game content so thats still in question but all the other stuff has been positive. cautiously getting hyped for release now
On December 09 2022 14:50 evilfatsh1t wrote: some streamers that have played the latest access version have given very positive reviews about the game so far. obviously no end game content so thats still in question but all the other stuff has been positive. cautiously getting hyped for release now
People who get early looks and other privileges to AAA titles generelly tend to not be too negative, because they want to keep on getting early looks at titles. Wait until the game is out, then make an opinion.
Basically if they can keep their grubby little paws off the 'MONETIZE HARDER" button, it just *might* be a good game. But don't believe the pre-release reviews because they've already "optimized" monetization in the past (D Immortal) between the copies they sent out to reviewers and the full release version available to the general public on day 1.
A friend of mine put it this way: They have 6 month left to fuck up now. Like with D3. Skillsystem? Nope, patched out. We realised people don't want one.
I would add that we haven't seen enough to know they didn't fuck up already.
The reviews of most people that were invited to the "First act until level 25 playtest" did indeed talk very positive about the game. But hold your horses and under no circumstances pre-order this game please
It seems to me that by turning it into open world and live service they're just creating problems for themselves that they didn't need to. It also looks kinda like Lost Ark but darker instead of its own thing.
Lost Ark does so much fundamentally right. The best thing D4 can do is go towards ARPG with some MMO elements. Thats the future of this genre in multiplayer at least thats how I see it.
A lot of people would love a less grindy/less work Lost Ark. Obviously raids and bosses probably wont be on the same level but I personally like the choice here
EPT
