EPTDiablo IV - Page 39
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zrttztztrtzdfg
1 Post
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Harris1st
Germany7326 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17800 Posts
On November 08 2022 00:23 Harris1st wrote: Stop feeding the troll accounts. Not worth your time I'm really surprised so many of them pop up in this thread though. It's just like the Chinese politics thread - can't post anything without 2-3 bots trying to sow nothing but conflict. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11941 Posts
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Miragee
8690 Posts
On November 07 2022 04:05 Manit0u wrote: Heh, GW and GW2 such underrated games. Especially GW1 I think was way ahead of its time with a lot of the designs. I really wouldn't mind D4 adopting GW design of city hubs and then party-instanced zones. You can go at it solo or with friends, still meet people in the hubs for trading, party-forming or socializing. You avoid a lot of MMO problems with spawn-camping, griefing etc. GW2 was also really innovative with how they handled quests and exploration, completely removing backtracking, dumb pathing from A to B, made quests like "kill 5 wolves" actually make sense in the context of your activities and gave you a variety of different activites to complete every quest so it's not boring. I completely on your take on GW. It fixed so many MMO problems with its instanced approach. It also fixed the group vs solo play dilemma for example because almost every instance was designed to be played by a group with a certain size and could be balanced around that. It was honestly kind of annoying to see GW2 move away from that only to introduce many of the MMO problems GW had already solved. I get that you lose the open world feeling and possibilities that come with it. It's not for everyone. But seeing the idea being dropped completely still has me confused. There are literally dozens of MMOs with an open world but there is only GW, which was fairly successful in a time when it had to compete with peak WoW. Fun fact: In a recent interview, lead dev of GGG said that PoE's hub and instance system was inspired by GW. I don't think PoE takes advantage of all the benefits that come from a system like this, in fact very few of them. But that's already a plus in my book. On November 08 2022 03:58 Simberto wrote: I think that it is exactly one person constantly making new accounts. This. | ||
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emperorchampion
Canada9496 Posts
On November 08 2022 03:58 Simberto wrote: I think that it is exactly one person constantly making new accounts. Yeah I agree, gotta respect the hussle of relentlessly trolling a d4 thread in a 20+ year old StarCraft forum | ||
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StasisField
United States1086 Posts
On November 08 2022 05:15 Miragee wrote: I completely on your take on GW. It fixed so many MMO problems with its instanced approach. It also fixed the group vs solo play dilemma for example because almost every instance was designed to be played by a group with a certain size and could be balanced around that. It was honestly kind of annoying to see GW2 move away from that only to introduce many of the MMO problems GW had already solved. I get that you lose the open world feeling and possibilities that come with it. It's not for everyone. But seeing the idea being dropped completely still has me confused. There are literally dozens of MMOs with an open world but there is only GW, which was fairly successful in a time when it had to compete with peak WoW. Fun fact: In a recent interview, lead dev of GGG said that PoE's hub and instance system was inspired by GW. I don't think PoE takes advantage of all the benefits that come from a system like this, in fact very few of them. But that's already a plus in my book. This. Well many people would (rightly) argue that GW is not a MMORPG but an ORPG. As a fan of both GW and GW2, I'd say they are both very unique and quite good in what they set out to do. GW2's approach to the open world is pretty fantastic and its horizontal progression system has kept most of the game relevant even now. GW has, in my opinion, a much more engaging story and has a more strategic approach to combat, builds, and party makeup. Something like an ARPG should probably look more to GW for inspiration because of its combat and balanced instanced play but GW2 is still a great game and has plenty to offer the average MMO player. | ||
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Miragee
8690 Posts
On November 08 2022 05:43 StasisField wrote: Well many people would (rightly) argue that GW is not a MMORPG but an ORPG. As a fan of both GW and GW2, I'd say they are both very unique and quite good in what they set out to do. GW2's approach to the open world is pretty fantastic and its horizontal progression system has kept most of the game relevant even now. GW has, in my opinion, a much more engaging story and has a more strategic approach to combat, builds, and party makeup. Something like an ARPG should probably look more to GW for inspiration because of its combat and balanced instanced play but GW2 is still a great game and has plenty to offer the average MMO player. I know, tbh many people called GW a CORPG (c for cooperative). MMO is not a term with one solid definition though. I also didn't intend to shit talk GW2. For me personally, it was a huge disappointment coming from GW. I don't like MMOs very much for various reasons and GW2 took many steps in the wrong direction for me. However, compared to a lot of other MMOs, GW2 does a lot of things really well. It's a good game on its own for sure. I still played it a lot as well and got a lot of enjoyment out of it. It was just tainted and it doesn't fit my tastes as much as GW did. But I can see why so many people love the game. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On November 07 2022 01:41 Manit0u wrote: I guess this also means server issues in the first month after release. Does anyone remember D3 pre-orders and early access? What a grand failure that was... I remember D2's server problems on release being worse than D3's. D3 was actually relatively stable compared to D2 online at release. Neither beats WoW when it comes to server problems, though, especially if you played in one of the original West Coast AT&T servers that were the most notorious for server issues. Opening the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj anyone? That shit was a slide show. IIRC, WoW got a lot better by the 2nd expansion (Lich King). There were barely any server issues after that. | ||
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Miragee
8690 Posts
On November 08 2022 08:04 andrewlt wrote: Took a look at GW's release date and it was April 2005. So WoW (Nov 2004) has it slightly beat in terms of who had instanced dungeons first. ? That was never the point of the argument. The argument was that GW was entirely designed around instanced play with certain party sizes, so the whole game could be designed and balanced as a party/group game. WoW had instanced dungeons and raids meant for party play but an open world for everything between single player and a giant horde of players. In case you didn't know (kind of sounds like it): GW is entirely instanced. You got hub cities/outposts, where you meet people. Once you venture outside, you are on your own with your party. Every map is its own instance. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17800 Posts
On November 08 2022 08:04 andrewlt wrote: Took a look at GW's release date and it was April 2005. So WoW (Nov 2004) has it slightly beat in terms of who had instanced dungeons first. I remember D2's server problems on release being worse than D3's. D3 was actually relatively stable compared to D2 online at release. Neither beats WoW when it comes to server problems, though, especially if you played in one of the original West Coast AT&T servers that were the most notorious for server issues. Opening the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj anyone? That shit was a slide show. IIRC, WoW got a lot better by the 2nd expansion (Lich King). There were barely any server issues after that. D3 had pretty big problems initially. One of my friends who pre-ordered it wasn't able to install it until 2 weeks after release (even though he was technically allowed to and attemptepted to do so a week before release) and after he managed to install he was unable to play the game for another 2 weeks after which he completely abandoned it. It's 5 weeks of being in possession of a game that you can't even play... Regarding WoW/GW release dates: They're 6 months apart, developing such games takes years, I think it's pretty clear neither of them was the originator of instanced play. All I wanted to point out was pretty much mentioned above, with GW's emphasis on making all maps instanced it solved a lot of typical MMO issues and helped balance it out. I also think it's a better approach than open world when it comes to ARPG style games. Even Lost Ark could use it, you wouldn't be aggravated by hundreds of bots running around all the time. | ||
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ProMeTheus112
France2027 Posts
I actually avoid instanced content in wow a lot, I always rather be out there in the unpredictable open huhu^^ but sometimes, can be fun/interesting too. [specifically i'm a huge fan of wpvp so that only really exists in open world it has no comparison otherwise, but open world is not easy to make and populate/balance] The bots are pretty much a anti cheating and administration issue. | ||
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evilfatsh1t
Australia8913 Posts
On November 08 2022 05:21 emperorchampion wrote: Yeah I agree, gotta respect the hussle of relentlessly trolling a d4 thread in a 20+ year old StarCraft forum at this point im 90% convinced that its actually an employee from blizzards pr team. nobody is pathetic enough to make as many accounts as this guy does for the sole purpose of commenting on 1 minor thread on tl in his free time. hes on blizzard's payroll. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17800 Posts
An interesting series of videos if anyone is interested in learning about the ARPG landscape while we wait for more news about D4. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
On November 08 2022 10:30 Manit0u wrote: All I wanted to point out was pretty much mentioned above, with GW's emphasis on making all maps instanced it solved a lot of typical MMO issues and helped balance it out. I also think it's a better approach than open world when it comes to ARPG style games. Even Lost Ark could use it, you wouldn't be aggravated by hundreds of bots running around all the time. For ARPGs, yeah, and I think Diablo4 may be going for something similar. For an MMO, I think WoW's mix of open world and instanced dungeons work better. It does have its issues because it is crowded whenever there is new content. But part of the immersion of an MMO is seeing other players out in the wild. | ||
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Miragee
8690 Posts
On November 09 2022 00:59 andrewlt wrote: For ARPGs, yeah, and I think Diablo4 may be going for something similar. For an MMO, I think WoW's mix of open world and instanced dungeons work better. It does have its issues because it is crowded whenever there is new content. But part of the immersion of an MMO is seeing other players out in the wild. I think you are speaking for a lot of people when it comes to immersion in MMOs. The other major point would be no loading screens, as those break immersion as well. However, for some some issues of an open world can make it less immersive. For me for example, the way most MMOs handle mobs in the open world is incredibly unimmersive. They just sit around and do nothing. When you kill them, they just respawn after a short time window. It's one of the more annoying and immersion-breaking things for me in MMOs. Also, meeting other players in the open world can also be very unimmersive, depending on the game and player behavior. Games move more and more towards super flashy microtransactions. If I run through the wilderness and a zerg surrounded by bouncing unicorns and rainbows breaks through the trees completely ruins any immersion I might have had. Btw. I think Diablo 4 is actually aiming for the WoW template: Open world with some instanced dungeons and story instances just for you/your party. On November 08 2022 22:31 Manit0u wrote: /snip Thanks, will have a look. I also tried to watch the Asmon video but quit after about 30 minutes because his take on respeccing was just too annoying. Well, not the take itself, that was just one-dimensional. I can live with that and disagree. But the way he presented it...I guess he likes calling everybody stupid who doesn't agree with his simplistic opinion. I noticed this trend a while ago. It's a bit of a shame because I used to enjoy watching some videos of him on different games from time to time. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17800 Posts
On November 09 2022 03:27 Miragee wrote: Thanks, will have a look. I also tried to watch the Asmon video but quit after about 30 minutes because his take on respeccing was just too annoying. Well, not the take itself, that was just one-dimensional. I can live with that and disagree. But the way he presented it...I guess he likes calling everybody stupid who doesn't agree with his simplistic opinion. I noticed this trend a while ago. It's a bit of a shame because I used to enjoy watching some videos of him on different games from time to time. True, he is kinda coarse and could definitely be less aggressive in his preaching. I do appreciate the passion and honesty about his own views but he's sometimes trying to push them too hard on others. | ||
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