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On April 04 2017 06:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
Or a lot of drafters are forcing it.
I'm accounting for that, but I still play Elysian way less than I feel I should.
On April 04 2017 07:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
I personally hate being pigeonholed and will draft fire as often as I damn well please. I like to think there's something to the fact that rakano is well within my comfort zone and I perform well with it, though I imagine many high level players' personal statistics are similar to this one.
It feels like the green in BFZ issue all over again. Fire is clearly the worst color, the question is whether it's bad enough that it's correct to never draft fire or is it still correct to draft it when it's open.
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Frankly justice looks weaker than fire to me. There's plenty of underwhelming cards, its bombs aren't that numerous and because of the stat spread it's sometimes hard to apply pressure early.
I'm happy to get a Magma Javelin and use it as a removal spell that'll cost me a couple life, but a Mithril Hammer is the kind of card you could pick 3-4 times in a whole draft when justice's open and you actively don't want it.
For every draft with 4th Tree Elder or Elder's Feather, you get drafts where Copperhall Recruit is required to fill your unit quota.
I thought at first I had trouble drafting Rakkano because fire was a bit flaky and it was hard to "get there" in terms of curve and aggression, but when it's open there's always torches, granite acolytes or katana to pick up, and a ronin or two. In the end justice's the limiting factor.
Now that I think about it I've had more success with fire/primal than both rakkano and combrei, outside of opening super bombs that carry my drafts. Combrei is like a worse elysian because it trades flyers and big butts for silences and weapons (more or less), and I never feel pulled toward it—I think at that point it'd require me to start time and get passed good combrei cards to consider picking up whatever decent justice comes to round it up.
It's also possible that I simply draft justice wrong, because it's usually open a bomb or pick up 2 great uncommons in a row, try to draft it, get underwhelmed. Or it doesn't seem that open pack 1, then pack 2 it picks up again and I try to go back to it since the bombs are bombs (Harsh Rule + Runehammer + Enforcer) but its fodder still isn't good enough.
I never feel pulled toward justice mid-pack, it's more at the end when I see 2 minotaur grunts in the last 4 picks that I realise maybe it's open.
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You can't pivot into Fire off either of the Elysian colors because the enemy color pairs aren't well supported. You can pivot into Combrei off of Time if Primal is cut off. That alone makes Justice better than Fire. "A worse Elysian" is still often better than either Fire archetype.
Elysian is just the only synergy-based archetype in a format where all the other color pairs are just decks with good cards. That's what makes it powerful. When you get Twinning Ritual + Sauropod, you're doing something completely unfair compared to what the other colors are capable of doing at low rarities--and when you don't get there on the synergies, your cards still aren't worse than the good stuff decks. The other color pairs have mechanics that either aren't strongly synergistic, or just don't get there on the synergies often enough because the baseline cards are too bad without them (Stonescar's sacrifice cards are the best example of this--Madness and Devour are great when you get to cast them together, but really bad when you draw one but not the other).
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Oh I wasn't saying Elysian isn't the best—as you said, their units are the best stat-wise, so they've got synergy on top of also being the best if you draft a synergy-less pile.
Maybe it's because I "require" more than you to consider a colour open, so even if I end up in primal/fire that's because I've got plenty of torches, acolytes, flyers, etc. instead of yeti snowslingers and guerrilla fighters.
I thought Feln was stronger at first because of all the removal, but infiltrate doesn't always get there, plenty of their gold cards are situational, and shadow is one half aggro, one half control and they don't mix well.
...
and now I get into a game against some Elysian guy who goes stranger, east-wind herald, static bolt for four meaning he's got two other, for all intents and purposes, unconditional removal, in his hand, then the flyer-lord.
I remove his board then play my Dinomancer after baiting the 2 bolts. He topdecks a 3rd, then topdecks Sapphire dragon. Then we enter a race and he topdecks the lifegain camel. Then a Terrazon.
Seriously, wtf?
These drafts are infuriating (my deck isn't strong by any means, its most notable feature is strong enough fixing to play 3c, and the fact that I had to go 3c to get enough playables), I don't understand how someone can receive all these cards in a single draft. At some point somebody should have been in primal to cut some of these bolts.
Next game, #4 of last season goes mistveil drake in opening hand, naturally 3c on turn 3, hatchling into hammer of might, then dispel on my dinomance, t5 friendly wisp, t6 terrazon and a +4/+4 dagger hit by hammer of might.
It doesn't feel like I'm losing to a good player at all. Just to straight up RNG and curving out on retardedly strong draws + having conditional answers in hand at all times.
Next in line gets his stonescar magus permastunned, so he nonchalantly drops an Infernal Tyrant on tun 6 to kill one of my 2/2s anyway and next turn throws a sidearm and shogun's scepteron it for good measure.
Oh, I could have had the Dinomancer to shrink it and double-block at that point, but opponent topdecks Combust to kill it right after I play it.
I think I see a pattern.
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On April 04 2017 07:11 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 06:17 WaveofShadow wrote:
Or a lot of drafters are forcing it. I'm accounting for that, but I still play Elysian way less than I feel I should. Show nested quote +On April 04 2017 07:00 WaveofShadow wrote:
I personally hate being pigeonholed and will draft fire as often as I damn well please. I like to think there's something to the fact that rakano is well within my comfort zone and I perform well with it, though I imagine many high level players' personal statistics are similar to this one. It feels like the green in BFZ issue all over again. Fire is clearly the worst color, the question is whether it's bad enough that it's correct to never draft fire or is it still correct to draft it when it's open.
Yup and I did the same thing with BFZ and didn't avoid it even though it was supposedly correct most of the time to do so.
Uh oh, we're shitting up the TL thread now.
Should keep it to Skype
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Ok, I just drafted a weird deck with 3 different colors. I cut all the junk and here's what I think are playable. Anyone want to help me finalize this? My initial thought is to cut the time color and make it Feln?
1 Dark Return (Set1 #250)
1 Direfang Spider (Set1 #256)
1 Levitate (Set1 #190)
1 Rapid Shot (Set1 #259)
1 Sanctuary Priest (Set1 #73)
1 Elysian Stranger (Set1 #412)
1 Feln Stranger (Set1 #409)
2 Gorgon Swiftblade (Set1 #377)
1 Lightning Strike (Set1 #197)
2 Static Bolt (Set1 #194)
1 Whispering Wind (Set1 #202)
1 Yeti Snowslinger (Set1 #203)
2 Dispel (Set1 #91)
2 Flash Freeze (Set1 #209)
2 Gorgon Fanatic (Set1 #375)
2 Wisdom of the Elders (Set1 #218)
1 Xenan Destroyer (Set1 #281)
2 Jarrall's Frostkin (Set1 #220)
1 Praxis Displacer (Set1 #100)
1 Stonescar Magus (Set1 #288)
3 Xenan Guardian (Set1 #102)
1 Hunting Pteriax (Set1 #363)
1 Magus of the Mist (Set1 #233)
1 West-Wind Herald (Set1 #231)
1 Araktodon (Set1 #238)
3 Elysian Banner (Set1 #421)
2 Feln Banner (Set1 #417)
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This is what I came up with. This is my second ever draft, is it any good?
1 Dark Return (Set1 #250)
1 Direfang Spider (Set1 #256)
1 Levitate (Set1 #190)
1 Rapid Shot (Set1 #259)
1 Feln Stranger (Set1 #409)
2 Gorgon Swiftblade (Set1 #377)
1 Lightning Strike (Set1 #197)
2 Static Bolt (Set1 #194)
1 Whispering Wind (Set1 #202)
1 Yeti Snowslinger (Set1 #203)
2 Flash Freeze (Set1 #209)
2 Gorgon Fanatic (Set1 #375)
1 Trickster's Cloak (Set1 #369)
2 Wisdom of the Elders (Set1 #218)
1 Xenan Destroyer (Set1 #281)
2 Jarrall's Frostkin (Set1 #220)
1 Stonescar Magus (Set1 #288)
1 Magus of the Mist (Set1 #233)
1 West-Wind Herald (Set1 #231)
2 Araktodon (Set1 #238)
10 Primal Sigil (Set1 #187)
6 Shadow Sigil (Set1 #249)
2 Feln Banner (Set1 #417)
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A little hard to judge overall given we don't know what your packs looked like, but the overall card quality seems to be pretty inconsistent across your draft. It seems you took a rather long time to commit to a color pair. I also tend not to take banners that highly, as this really isn't a 3-color format, so ending up with 5 banners in your draft is rather unusual.
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Time looked good at the beginning, then it stopped coming later into the draft and I had to make a shift. I also decided to take a few legs/foil rares that were not in my color over some of the better commons.
My original thought was I could pick enough banners to make a 3-color deck work by going a bit over the 45 color limit, but I guess it would only work if you get lucky with all high quality cards.
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On April 04 2017 13:57 Glacierz wrote:
Ok, I just drafted a weird deck with 3 different colors. I cut all the junk and here's what I think are playable. Anyone want to help me finalize this? My initial thought is to cut the time color and make it Feln?
1 Dark Return (Set1 #250)
1 Direfang Spider (Set1 #256)
1 Levitate (Set1 #190)
1 Rapid Shot (Set1 #259)
1 Sanctuary Priest (Set1 #73)
1 Elysian Stranger (Set1 #412)
1 Feln Stranger (Set1 #409)
2 Gorgon Swiftblade (Set1 #377)
1 Lightning Strike (Set1 #197)
2 Static Bolt (Set1 #194)
1 Whispering Wind (Set1 #202)
1 Yeti Snowslinger (Set1 #203)
2 Dispel (Set1 #91)
2 Flash Freeze (Set1 #209)
2 Gorgon Fanatic (Set1 #375)
2 Wisdom of the Elders (Set1 #218)
1 Xenan Destroyer (Set1 #281)
2 Jarrall's Frostkin (Set1 #220)
1 Praxis Displacer (Set1 #100)
1 Stonescar Magus (Set1 #288)
3 Xenan Guardian (Set1 #102)
1 Hunting Pteriax (Set1 #363)
1 Magus of the Mist (Set1 #233)
1 West-Wind Herald (Set1 #231)
1 Araktodon (Set1 #238)
3 Elysian Banner (Set1 #421)
2 Feln Banner (Set1 #417)
Your final list looks good to me but the top-end is weak, basically because Araktodon is not a great card.
Since you have 3 elysian banner and 1 elysian stranger, I would probably try to splash at least the Hunting Pteriax (fliers win drafts and this one is hella good) and maybe one or two xenan guardian, because it is also strong. As for what to cut, probably the two Arakto, maybe 1 Flash Freeze?
I also love to draft Feln and Elysian unless fire or justice are way too open. Looking at a feln list without a single Lethrai ranger feels weird to me 
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I did not see a single Lethrai ranger in my draft =(. I like the idea of splashing for late game, will try it out tonight.
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The Pteriax is certainly worth splashing. Also note that if you do so, the Elysian Stranger is another way to get the influence needed without compromising your power base too much (2 sigils, the stranger, and you should have enough).
Araktodon is underwhelming, so if you really feel like you lack beef you could put one, but 2 is definitely too many.
Trickster's Cloak isn't incredible either, no valuable infiltrate effects (since the gorgons die afterwards), and you don't have a giant unit to equip to burst through the last few life points either.
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Got crushed by LSV today while drafting.
Turn two double initiate of the sands and me on combrei with no way to remove them.
Was pretty hilarious and not even close.
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On April 05 2017 02:15 Alaric wrote:
The Pteriax is certainly worth splashing. Also note that if you do so, the Elysian Stranger is another way to get the influence needed without compromising your power base too much (2 sigils, the stranger, and you should have enough).
Araktodon is underwhelming, so if you really feel like you lack beef you could put one, but 2 is definitely too many.
Trickster's Cloak isn't incredible either, no valuable infiltrate effects (since the gorgons die afterwards), and you don't have a giant unit to equip to burst through the last few life points either.
With the splash, I managed to get 4 wins. I got mana screwed a couple of times (running only 17, although never had a color issue) and lost those, I guess that's not too horrible.
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Draft question for yall. What would you cut, and what would you splash here?
I've already weeded out some obvious cuts and am interested in opinions here.
Combrei Banner
Amber Monument
Copper Conduit
Levitate
2x Bold Adventurer
Borderlands Waykeeper
East wind Herald
2x Scaly Gruan
3x Storm Lynx
Synchronized Strike
Teleport
Violent Gust
Ageless Mentor
Amber Acolyte
Cobalt Acolyte
Combrei Healer
False Prince
Flash Freeze
Polymorph
Unlock Potential
Wisdom of the Elders
Feeding Time
Jarall's Frostkin
Xenan Guardian
Karmic Guardian
Serpent Trainer
Towertop Patrol
Magus of the Mist
Towering Terrazon
Dormant Sentinel
Looks like an 18-lander, the question is do I splash Justice for healer/guardian (easier splash, better boardstalling capabilities until i draw finishers) or Shadow for Feeding time (better removal in which I'm fairly lacking.)
Keep in mind I'm probably also cutting a 2 drop or two and a couple spells.
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I got blown out in a draft game when my opponent played madness on my Gorgon Fanatic, is this something I should be playing around?
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No, Madness is an uncommon and pretty bad in most scenarios. Sometimes you lose to bad beats, that doesn't necessarily mean the play was bad.
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Thanks for looking at my deck yangers
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quit whining, that just means he fully trusts you with making the good decisions!
On April 05 2017 11:47 WaveofShadow wrote:
Got crushed by LSV today while drafting.
Turn two double initiate of the sands and me on combrei with no way to remove them.
Was pretty hilarious and not even close.
See, assuming he curved into a 4-5 drop on turn 3 that'd just piss me off as a random "non-game", from your description. We just don't approach the game the same way.
I'd be curious to see what his pool is that he'd run double initiate when they're usually pretty bad in draft...
You don't really have buffs to slap on guardian to turn it into an actual threat so I don't think I'd splash it. If you had more removal/tricks your curve looks like you could pretty easily go for a tempo build, but as is...
Levitate doesn't seem important since you already have a bunch of flyers.
Do you have synergies with teleport? Copper Conduit, Mentor but that's probably too slow, and... Magus of the Mist says "when it dies", so you can get another dragon if you bounce the magus instead?
One of Unlock and Sync Strike probably has to go, I'd say Sync Strike since Unlock can make you walls much more efficient, and also benefits your bunch of 2/3s for 2 later on.
That's probably about all since you need ~5 cuts and you mentioned some yourself. I'd say splash Feeding Time but I'm pretty sure I overvalue Shadow removal consistently.
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Got masters in both Forge and Gauntlet. I guess the best way to spend gold is draft now? How many wins do you need in draft to be infinite?
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EPT
