I am here with zAAz from Team Secret who just won the ESWC 2016 Women CS:GO tournament. First of all, congratulations for your title! You had quite a flawless run throughout the tournament up until the finals. Were you expecting your run to be that dominant, coming into the event?
I mean, we were so confident when we came in the tournament. We all expected it to be… hmm I don’t want to say easy, but rather fast matches and with great confidence. Yeah, we did.
You were pitted against Selfless in the finals, a team that you already encountered and beat convincingly in the group stage. Then, on Overpass, they managed to actually win the map. Was that an unexpected map loss, or did you thought about this possibility?
No. We were actually expecting them to choose Overpass against us, to be honest. I know that all teams are aware that we haven’t been practicing Overpass that much, and they know it’s a pretty weak map for us compared to the other maps, on which we are very strong in comparison. And we didn’t have that much time to practice Overpass. I think we just played that map five or six times, and that’s it. We didn’t have time because we were practicing so many other different maps, so I wasn’t surprised that they took this one. But after this map, I was a hundred percent sure that we were going to win Train, because it’s really one of our strongest maps.
Following up on that, you’ve been pretty dominant on LAN this year and very rarely dropped maps. When you lost Overpass, you went backstage looking quite upset, but then managed to come back and play Train with a very strong performance. How did you reset your mindset and went into the next map like that?
We went in, and I just told everyone like, “Ok, fuck this map, this is not our map”. And that’s it. We weren’t surprised that they won of course, but we just talked about Train and were a hundred percent confident that we would take it. That we would have it. And we just went in and.. yeah, won.
Coming into this tournament, you had a couple tournament where you fell to Reason Gaming, when they still had Ant1ka. And now you’ve picked Ant1ka, and she’s been tearing it during this tournament, playing very well. Did you think about sniping Reason Gaming somehow with that move, or did you just pick her up without any thought about that ?
I have been watching Ant1ka for a while, like for some months, to be honest. And I always thought about having her in my team, And for a moment we agreed on changing one player. We all thought about Ant1ka, and, hmm, I don’t really know what to say, we’re all so happy to have her in the team because she’s doing great.
Let’s move on to the team itself. You’ve been competing in a few tournaments that aren’t in the women's circuit, like Operation Kinguin #3, Global Grand Masters, or Hitbox Challenger Cup #2. Unfortunately you didn’t have much success during these tournaments. Are you working on something to start getting an edge in these tournaments, to climb the next step?
Right now we’re just thinking about doing it because, I mean, we really want to be the only female team in the world that does that. But it’s not that easy, it’s difficult because there’s so many players that are so so good, I mean male players. We learned from the male players, we didn’t learn from the female players, you know. So yes of course, with some time, who knows? In the future, we will try at least.
Also, Team Secret is the main story of this tournament, with your dominant run and very strong performance. But there’s also another big story, and that is CLG Red, who won the last one, dropping out so early. What’s your take on this?
I actually said that, before we came to the tournament and we saw CLG’s group, I said to the team that I thought they actually wouldn’t even go through their group and make it to the semifinals. They had actually a strong group where everything could happen, and I know that all these teams were around the same level. So everything could happen, and I really thought that they weren’t even going to pass that. Also, they were playing with a standin.
So you didn’t expect to see them in the finals?
No I didn’t. But what I also know is that they have potter and missharvey that are very experienced players, and that they can be down 14-1, they can still come back, you know.
I see. Before ESWC, you had a bootcamp, at Inferno Online in Stockholm. Do you really think this kind of practice gave you an edge over the other teams?
Yeah actually. We were all playing together, sitting next to each other every day, and it helps a lot. You can go through stuff more easily, you can come up with better tactics, you can talk. I mean, you’re doing everything together, it’s much easier.
Alright, that will be all for me. Any last comment?
Well, I want to thank everyone for the support, and thank you for the interview!
Nice to have such confidence and cool to see they try to break out into the male scene. Not being content with being best in their niche but trying to become better still.
On November 02 2016 15:45 graNite wrote: Why are there tournaments especially for women? Are men better in CSGO by their gender? (Serious question)
That's actually a tricky question. Yes, to begin with, these were there so that women could have their tournaments, as no women team would crack into the normal circuit.
Nowadays they're controversial, because on the one hand, that's tournament where women's teams can go and compete for a cash prize without going against the toughest competition, while a tier 4 EU team will have a much harder time to get to a decent LAN, and tier 4 EU is still superior to the best women team right now. On the other hand, there's all the other arguments about how they could benefit from the exposure, and actually being able to go to a LAN, as a way to help them close the gap.
In my opinion, so far that argument is quite moot because it's hard to feel that it helped somehow, as Team Secret is still losing to teams like Tricked, Game Agents(!!!), and the likes, each time they compete in a mixed (as in, not closed to a gender like women tournaments are) tournament. And that's exactly what zAAz mentions here: Secret is good because they went against the standard competition, not because they stayed in the women's circuit.
I'm quite excited to see that they're motivated to actually try to take the next steps and crack into the standard circuit. That's the spirit that could actually close the gap.
But honestly, this is a tricky question and it's hard to ask/answer that with clear cut reasons as to why? (Esp. the second part). That's just my take on it.
Actually, I really encourage you to have a look at this post by masq, who's a NA women that played at a higher level than any of the other women's teams, notably in a few RGN tournaments where she actually could compete, and she wasn't part of a women's team.
They are caught in their female devisions and cant get out of it.
This sounds a bit drastic, but the core reason why female players cant compete with male players is neither their bodies, or reactions or inferiour something, it is not even a lack of wanted training. It is also not the low number, as female players are not that rare anymore, even if they would be 1:30 (which they are not, in casual they might be 1:10 depending on the leagues/ranks) there should be some girls reaching out into T1, T2 and T3 (or even T4) just by statistic. A player like zAAz (no doubt she is one of the very best female players, maybe even the best at some point) could easily join a T4 team, grind the gears and become T3 or better within a year. But thats not worth it for female players. zAAz makes more money in team secret than any T4 player in EU will ever make, even tho the female circuit is pretty small, she will compete for more money and at better lans (not better in skill, but better in money, production and stage) then EU T4 players ever will. Why should she leave her all female team and losing money and opportunities for the better practice regime?
All the female players in any esport who got decent enough to be material for a female team will peak in their development far before their true potential is unhidden, as are forced in a much weaker environment (which exists thanks to female players giving sponsors other pearks then pure results). When Team Secret competes agains T4 EU teams, like in Operation Kinguin, it does not help, they are still in their all girl team which holds them behind, as the very best female players have to deal with much worse female players who made it into a female team. Players liek zAAz are stuck in bad teams, it is like having simple in worst players (just on another scale) and for some reason he makes more money in worst players then NaVi and never leaves them.
The answer to the male/female separation is very simple. It's simply a matter of numbers. There are far more men who play than women (also far more men who play seriously). So the cream of the crop are going to have significant differences. If you pitted the best player out of 1000 people versus the best player out of 5 people, who is going to win? That's why there's separate tourney. Allow women do their thing against their own competition (in their smaller scene) and have a shot at being competitive.
On November 03 2016 04:36 Hydrolisko wrote: The answer to the male/female separation is very simple. It's simply a matter of numbers. There are far more men who play than women (also far more men who play seriously). So the cream of the crop are going to have significant differences. If you pitted the best player out of 1000 people versus the best player out of 5 people, who is going to win? That's why there's separate tourney. Allow women do their thing against their own competition (in their smaller scene) and have a shot at being competitive.
that doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't we allow US swimmer to compete at Olympic together with people from countries like Singapore, New Zealand ? Competition is all about finding the best players, as long as they are equal in ability. If women can compete with men, there is no reason for gender separating, but they can not, thats why we have tournament for women.
On November 02 2016 15:45 graNite wrote: Why are there tournaments especially for women? Are men better in CSGO by their gender? (Serious question)
Exact same reason regional competitions (or skill differences) exist. Many competitive leagues (E or sports) have rules to try to allow players to compete and develop equally.
Also because they can. (I don't think they're taking anything away from general competition since niche tournament sponsors usually do so to get the niche fans.)
On November 03 2016 04:36 Hydrolisko wrote: The answer to the male/female separation is very simple. It's simply a matter of numbers. There are far more men who play than women (also far more men who play seriously). So the cream of the crop are going to have significant differences. If you pitted the best player out of 1000 people versus the best player out of 5 people, who is going to win? That's why there's separate tourney. Allow women do their thing against their own competition (in their smaller scene) and have a shot at being competitive.
that doesn't make sense. Why wouldn't we allow US swimmer to compete at Olympic together with people from countries like Singapore, New Zealand ? Competition is all about finding the best players, as long as they are equal in ability. If women can compete with men, there is no reason for gender separating, but they can not, thats why we have tournament for women.
the bigger countries DO win way more medals every single olympics....
On November 03 2016 04:23 Clonester wrote: They are caught in their female devisions and cant get out of it.
This sounds a bit drastic, but the core reason why female players cant compete with male players is neither their bodies, or reactions or inferiour something, it is not even a lack of wanted training. It is also not the low number, as female players are not that rare anymore, even if they would be 1:30 (which they are not, in casual they might be 1:10 depending on the leagues/ranks) there should be some girls reaching out into T1, T2 and T3 (or even T4) just by statistic. A player like zAAz (no doubt she is one of the very best female players, maybe even the best at some point) could easily join a T4 team, grind the gears and become T3 or better within a year. But thats not worth it for female players. zAAz makes more money in team secret than any T4 player in EU will ever make, even tho the female circuit is pretty small, she will compete for more money and at better lans (not better in skill, but better in money, production and stage) then EU T4 players ever will. Why should she leave her all female team and losing money and opportunities for the better practice regime?
All the female players in any esport who got decent enough to be material for a female team will peak in their development far before their true potential is unhidden, as are forced in a much weaker environment (which exists thanks to female players giving sponsors other pearks then pure results). When Team Secret competes agains T4 EU teams, like in Operation Kinguin, it does not help, they are still in their all girl team which holds them behind, as the very best female players have to deal with much worse female players who made it into a female team. Players liek zAAz are stuck in bad teams, it is like having simple in worst players (just on another scale) and for some reason he makes more money in worst players then NaVi and never leaves them.
I think this is one of the biggest concerns w/ leagues set up exclusively for weaker players - especially for something like a gender split
On November 02 2016 15:45 graNite wrote: Why are there tournaments especially for women? Are men better in CSGO by their gender? (Serious question)
No they just outnumber 30-1. So of course men will have a lot more better players.
As simple as it sounds, but that is about 95% the reason imho.
Are there any figures for that? The only flawed study I could find said 66% in the FPS genre in favour of males. There are of course other things that play into this like history of gaming, social stigmas and so on but would like a source for that figure. (This is flawed since it doesn't split it into fps and mmo where I would think mmo would be more popular among other things.)
It really depends what games and what type of gameplay you're looking at, i think the amount of girls is much lower for high end / competitive play in particular and higher for some games than for others.
For high end MMO gameplay with a sample size of 100-200 players i've personally seen a male to female ratio around 10 to 1 which is five times higher than that article says. I've been in entire guilds with 25 active players that happen to be 100% male because there are no girls around
On November 02 2016 15:45 graNite wrote: Why are there tournaments especially for women? Are men better in CSGO by their gender? (Serious question)
For the same reasons why you have special olympics.
Do you mean the paralympics? The competitors there have disabilities that make it harder for them to do their sport.
But how does being a woman make it harder to play CSGO? The only possible reason I know is the fact(?) that women have worse spatial thinking.
If I remember correctly women have slightly slower reaction times than males. (I think something between 10-20ms)
I am speculating, but I would say that's probably because men are more likely to play sports and/or games - training at which decreases reaction time through practice. I was a swimmer in college and my reaction time off the block was pretty poor at first, but got better through training. Most of the women on the women's team still had better starts than me, lol. I would be surprised if there was a legitimate biological reason why one gender or another was better at FPS games. Upper body strength isn't going to help in FPS. Could be wrong of course, maybe there is some killer instinct men get that women don't. I think that if women can become fighter pilots flying an F-22, they can definitely play CS:GO at the highest levels.
EPT
and cool to see they try to break out into the male scene. Not being content with being best in their niche but trying to become better still.
