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On October 25 2016 23:03 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Would not be surprised if they end up doing map seeds/made maps with set starting positions and resource balances to make things more "fair." Hopefully doesn't end up as stagnant/identical across maps as SC2/BW though (which had more reasons to be uniform between matches than Civ).
An interesting notion, but I think making Civ maps will be a lot more difficult than an SC2/BW map.
For one thing, resources are everywhere and so many various types that balancing maps just around resources would be a tremendous endeavour.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. I just feel making a Civ 6 map would require a small team with many many iterations and testing.
However, for touranment purposes, I think made maps is the way to go to reduce the chances of wildly imbalanced starting positions that automated maps might design.
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On October 26 2016 01:51 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2016 23:03 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Would not be surprised if they end up doing map seeds/made maps with set starting positions and resource balances to make things more "fair." Hopefully doesn't end up as stagnant/identical across maps as SC2/BW though (which had more reasons to be uniform between matches than Civ). An interesting notion, but I think making Civ maps will be a lot more difficult than an SC2/BW map. For one thing, resources are everywhere and so many various types that balancing maps just around resources would be a tremendous endeavour. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. I just feel making a Civ 6 map would require a small team with many many iterations and testing. However, for touranment purposes, I think made maps is the way to go to reduce the chances of wildly imbalanced starting positions that automated maps might design.
What would be nice is auto-generated mirrored map. It would be even for all players at the start so no complaining about a bad start.
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On October 26 2016 02:36 Manit0u wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 01:51 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On October 25 2016 23:03 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Would not be surprised if they end up doing map seeds/made maps with set starting positions and resource balances to make things more "fair." Hopefully doesn't end up as stagnant/identical across maps as SC2/BW though (which had more reasons to be uniform between matches than Civ). An interesting notion, but I think making Civ maps will be a lot more difficult than an SC2/BW map. For one thing, resources are everywhere and so many various types that balancing maps just around resources would be a tremendous endeavour. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. I just feel making a Civ 6 map would require a small team with many many iterations and testing. However, for touranment purposes, I think made maps is the way to go to reduce the chances of wildly imbalanced starting positions that automated maps might design. What would be nice is auto-generated mirrored map. It would be even for all players at the start so no complaining about a bad start.
Lack of iron hurts most civs, whereas civs like Rome/Kongo just trolololol unit spam anyway.
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On October 26 2016 02:57 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 02:36 Manit0u wrote:On October 26 2016 01:51 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On October 25 2016 23:03 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Would not be surprised if they end up doing map seeds/made maps with set starting positions and resource balances to make things more "fair." Hopefully doesn't end up as stagnant/identical across maps as SC2/BW though (which had more reasons to be uniform between matches than Civ). An interesting notion, but I think making Civ maps will be a lot more difficult than an SC2/BW map. For one thing, resources are everywhere and so many various types that balancing maps just around resources would be a tremendous endeavour. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. I just feel making a Civ 6 map would require a small team with many many iterations and testing. However, for touranment purposes, I think made maps is the way to go to reduce the chances of wildly imbalanced starting positions that automated maps might design. What would be nice is auto-generated mirrored map. It would be even for all players at the start so no complaining about a bad start. Lack of iron hurts most civs, whereas civs like Rome/Kongo just trolololol unit spam anyway.
But i think we are in the realm of manageable bad luck. The thing with Rome is that you can spam legionaries no matter what. If you pick some other civilization, you should never depend on iron. You need an alternate plan and its entirely doable. You can even win a domination game, the real problem is surviving, but you don't need iron for that.
Removing the luck factor is nice, but the importance of exploration should not be removed.
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anygameplay videos of MP in a competetive matter or just MP in general?
This thread got me interested, perhaps the game itself can to and i might start to play this MP purely.
Looked at some at youtube, i dont understand anything and nothing happens either. Its a slow game isnt it?
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Russian Federation6 Posts
On October 26 2016 02:36 Manit0u wrote:
What would be nice is auto-generated mirrored map. It would be even for all players at the start so no complaining about a bad start.
Looks like map generator is the same LUA script as it was in Civ 4. So it's easy to make mirror versions of all map types.
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On October 26 2016 03:23 Foxxan wrote:
anygameplay videos of MP in a competetive matter or just MP in general?
This thread got me interested, perhaps the game itself can to and i might start to play this MP purely.
Looked at some at youtube, i dont understand anything and nothing happens either. Its a slow game isnt it?
Yes it's slow, you could probably get faster games by reducing the timer like in Blitz Chess. That would also add more mechanical skill to the game since you'd have a limited time to do potentially a lot of actions.
FilthyRobot is probably the player that uploads the most games to youtube. You can also look at Arvius (twitch.tv/anzleon) for another skilled player.
On another note, has MrGameTheory played in a streamed game yet? (not necessarily on his stream)
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On October 25 2016 02:20 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2016 00:03 Salteador Neo wrote:On October 24 2016 23:57 Incognoto wrote:
Randomness doesn't matter in terms of competition. You need to be able to plan out for several different possibilities accordingly, that's what competition is. That depends on the level of randomness, doesn't it? If the starting locations were so imbalanced that they basically decide the outcome of a game, it would be difficult to take that competition seriously  Meanwhile poker tournament is still a thing, and fantasy sports study showing to the contrary belief, the amount of luck involved is small compared to amount of skill (you would lose money unless you are top percentile in term of skill), It is more of a question how to take account of the luck factor in the format.
The comparison to poker is frankly ridiculous. Over the course of a tournament poker players will play hundreds or even thousands of hands. This is why variance cancels itself out to some degree and the more skilled players are more likely to go far. With Civ each "hand" takes several hours and while you can absolutely be dealt a "game over" in poker (at least in no limit) for Civ it's just not feasible to have people watch a competitive game where one player starts with a worker less, so to speak. I'm sure there are ways to drastically reduce the luck factor, but that still leaves a huge question mark over the insanely long/slow games and if people would actually watch.
If someone has any stream viewer numbers for the last big Carlsen/Anand match I'd be very interested. IIRC they weren't that impressive considering Chess is a world wide accepted and popular sport with a several centuries long tradition.
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On October 26 2016 07:42 nothingmuch wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2016 02:20 ragz_gt wrote:On October 25 2016 00:03 Salteador Neo wrote:On October 24 2016 23:57 Incognoto wrote:
Randomness doesn't matter in terms of competition. You need to be able to plan out for several different possibilities accordingly, that's what competition is. That depends on the level of randomness, doesn't it? If the starting locations were so imbalanced that they basically decide the outcome of a game, it would be difficult to take that competition seriously Meanwhile poker tournament is still a thing, and fantasy sports study showing to the contrary belief, the amount of luck involved is small compared to amount of skill (you would lose money unless you are top percentile in term of skill), It is more of a question how to take account of the luck factor in the format. The comparison to poker is frankly ridiculous. Over the course of a tournament poker players will play hundreds or even thousands of hands. This is why variance cancels itself out to some degree and the more skilled players are more likely to go far. With Civ each "hand" takes several hours and while you can absolutely be dealt a "game over" in poker (at least in no limit) for Civ it's just not feasible to have people watch a competitive game where one player starts with a worker less, so to speak. I'm sure there are ways to drastically reduce the luck factor, but that still leaves a huge question mark over the insanely long/slow games and if people would actually watch. If someone has any stream viewer numbers for the last big Carlsen/Anand match I'd be very interested. IIRC they weren't that impressive considering Chess is a world wide accepted and popular sport with a several centuries long tradition.
Most people wait for the game sheets to get posted for chess, or for their favorite GM analysis to be finished and posted elsewhere. It's a hard game to digest live to say the least.
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On October 26 2016 01:51 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2016 23:03 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Would not be surprised if they end up doing map seeds/made maps with set starting positions and resource balances to make things more "fair." Hopefully doesn't end up as stagnant/identical across maps as SC2/BW though (which had more reasons to be uniform between matches than Civ). An interesting notion, but I think making Civ maps will be a lot more difficult than an SC2/BW map. For one thing, resources are everywhere and so many various types that balancing maps just around resources would be a tremendous endeavour. Don't get me wrong, I'm not against it. I just feel making a Civ 6 map would require a small team with many many iterations and testing. However, for touranment purposes, I think made maps is the way to go to reduce the chances of wildly imbalanced starting positions that automated maps might design.
There was a map editor in civ 2 amd the basic concepts of terrain haven't really changed much. I doubt we'll get one for civ 6 but it would definitely work to balance things out. I am picturing mirror maps with set starting locations, then the map maker can do things like create spots for 2nd and 3rd cities (expansions) where the player has to choose between different resources based on expansion pattern.
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Mrgametheory loses two games to arvius, then changes the map setting to 6 players without telling him. Arvius no longer wants to play because two players playing on a six player map is silly. This on top of Exo beating gametheory a few days ago. Catch all the drama and people making fools of themselves live!
https://www.twitch.tv/anzleon
[He said he'd be back in an hour. Taking a break after the shitshow].
It seems the general consensus among the NQ community is that mrgametheory is full of shit. That's detrimental, to say the least, to growing civ as an esport if he wants to be on top of it in any fashion. I repeat my earlier suggestion that mrgametheory re-evaluate his attitude to how he interacts with other players, as it is causing him quite a lot of negative animus in the community.
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Yeah, his attitude seems really poor and negative.
I'd say more but it just seems like that's the kind of person he is, unchangeable.
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Anyone have butter? I enjoy my popcorn buttered during the drama.
edit: Just so I don't get a warning, I will add a bit of meat to my content, and maybe fuel to the fire.
MGT can do whatever he pleases, and he doesn't have to act like he owes anyone anything. With that being said, of course he will alienate a sub-community (ie. NQ) with his actions. However, it remains to be seen how this affects his career and image.
I've known TL to usually recruit players that show respect, but I also didn't know TL had a Clash Royale team, so what the fuck do I know.
Anyways, from what it sounds like, MGT is shaping up to be the Idra of SC2. Or Naniwa. Or maybe Lilbow, but first he needs to announce his preparation for Civ 7.
Honestly, I don't mind if he acts like a douchebag. I've yet to be invested in this scene. I'm just keeping an eye on it to see how things develop.
last edit: I watched Anzleon's stream, and he seems pretty cool. Not overly entertaining, but not a complete bore. He is educational, so I would recommend his stream to anyone that wants to learn a bit more about the game.
very last edit I promise: Trump is streaming Civ 6, and he is also educational. However, I find him to be mostly boring, but very good at explaining his actions/choices.
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Mr Game Theory is a complete fruad. No one in the nq group has ever heard of this guy. He hasn't played civ 5 in 5 years. He doesn't even stream his games. The achievements he claims he has are all from websites no one has used in forever. The NQ group doesn't even have rankings because they found that rankings in civ just did not work because people would unfairly team up on people and it just made for an unfair gameplay experience. Maybe he was good a long time ago, but they guy only has like 600 hours of civilization 5 gameplay when others have upwards of 4000 +. How can you say he is a legend when he hardly plays the game?
Anyone who watched MGT theory play against Arvius would know that not only is he not one of the best players, he makes rather noobish mistakes. The guy tried to rush someone with warriors. He spammed catapults. These things are traits of a horrible player, not a good one. And not only is he a bad player, he has a horrible attitude and tries to cheat people. Today he set a duel match to a 6 player landmass thinking Arvius woudn't notice and it worked. Who the hell plays a duel on a 6 player landmass? It's unplayable and he only did it to try to get an advantage being able to settle more land without arvius noticing the map is larger.
TL did a absolutely horrible job vetting this guy. There are many civ streamers you could have chosen to be the leader of team liquid's civ team. MGT isn't even one of them. He doesn't even stream. He hasn't played civ in 5 years until now. He is a charlatan with an ego the size of Donald Trump's. He cheats people. He has a horrible attitude. He quits when he is about to lose making excuses like, "I've gotta go to sleep" And worse of all, he isn't even good at the game. Why would you want a guy who isn't even good to be the leader of a competitive team? TL is supposed to be the New England Patriots not the Cleveland Browns.
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But MGT has proven himself as valuable part of Liquid'Clash, tl's flagship team.
How could you doubt his qualification? 
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Well Liquid said they were going to going to announce more people for the Civ team in a few days.
If MGT isn't that good, who are the best people at Civ V?
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Arvius is most likely the best. Have been watching his civ 5 stream for a long time. Guy is just a beast at everything turn based. He is 100% the best xcom single player. Also would make a good leader.
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On October 26 2016 16:34 Salteador Neo wrote:
Arvius is most likely the best. Have been watching his civ 5 stream for a long time. Guy is just a beast at everything turn based. He is 100% the best xcom single player. Also would make a good leader.
I would say FiltyRobots is better but it's hard to argue on the skill in Civiliztion
but I also agree that MGT is currentyl pretty far from being a great player.
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I understand Anzleon's Twitch stream just poured in after he just conceded. Welcome guys. Anzleon won his first duel with me, was caught breaking the rules in his second duel when he deleted a unit when he was -14 gold with 0 gold in reserve (https://www.twitch.tv/anzleon/v/97033165 Look at 1:34.22) and he just lost his 3rd duel just now. In the last duel Anzleon agreed to play a larger map so that there could be more building and he had the ability to review all settings before the match started. It is fine and fun to support your favorite streamer, but try to keep the trolling to a minimum. We are here to have a good time and to try and expand competitive civilization. We are only in our 5th day of Civilization VI and there will be plenty of great games to come. Anzleon has 7,000 hours of Civ V and is an amazing player. I look forward to more matches with Anzleon, NQ players, and other passionate players so stay tuned because we are only getting started.
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On October 26 2016 16:49 FaCE_1 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 26 2016 16:34 Salteador Neo wrote:
Arvius is most likely the best. Have been watching his civ 5 stream for a long time. Guy is just a beast at everything turn based. He is 100% the best xcom single player. Also would make a good leader. I would say FiltyRobots is better but it's hard to argue on the skill in Civiliztion but I also agree that MGT is currentyl pretty far from being a great player.
I agree its super hard to tell who is better but then again i cant imagine FilthyRobot being better because Arv is just too damn involved. He studies the games until he trivializes them, like he did with xcom long war. He is an aggro player but knows when to simcity too, and always keeps tabs on whats going on with the other players.
Then again im biased because FR is too whiny for me so I stopped watching him. Always complains and never accepts his mistakes. All around solid player tho.
My second fav is Baba. Such a nice guy and still with a casual attitude towards about a game he has more than 4-5k hours in. His style is way different too, he is more passive/simcity/wonderwhoring. Probably wins even more often than Arv.
Yoorus probably fights with FR for the third best player spot in my head. Super aggro player for sure. I think he is russian or very close so poker players can probably relate heh.
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EPT
