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On December 12 2015 02:36 whatusername wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 02:30 kyllinghest wrote:On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
If you dont wanna play Counter-Strike there are loads of other shooters. Counter-Strike have been one of the deepest and best shooters for more than a decade, and its largely because of extremely reliable core weapons with high skill ceilings and very little rng. in cs1.6 there were several spray patterns and which one u got was literally determined by RNG
In 1.6 you could easily control your fourth and fifth bullet when rifling in mid range, in CS:GO right now every gosh darn bullet is going for a spin trough the rng. I prefer bursting over spraying on most ranges, but bursting right now is hilariously random.
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On December 12 2015 04:58 zzdd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 04:45 Censured wrote:On December 12 2015 04:41 saddaromma wrote:On December 12 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote:
I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG. If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that. Nice one, guys use this line when you have no argument but you disagree. Yeeaaaah, no. On December 12 2015 04:16 zzdd wrote:
If you didn't think it was that good then, no offence, but you're probably bad at the game. Well good thing you wrote "no offence", because if I have a different opinion I must be clearly really bad, right? If you didn't see how it completely breaks the game pre-nerf then you must not have a good understanding of the game. I don't think it's possible to have a different opinion than that if you know the game. To clarify, for example, we take an eco round, normally you buy a pistol, maybe shotgun/smg and try to get some damage/kills. With the R8, you will get kills. There is no try with this gun. Paying $850 (!!!!!) on an eco, getting a kill, and then taking the enemies rifle is completely game breaking right there. This gun is a multiple shot zeus than can also kill long range. It was literally an awp without a scope. If you don't think that's completely game breaking right there than we must be playing different games. Compared to a nova (which is not a one hit kill normally) which is $1200, you instead can get an R8 and also a smoke or two flashes for the same price and have a better chance at killing your enemy and better utility. It also is better in every way than a nova. If you get a kill with a nova, you drop your nova for their rifle meaning you lose your $1200 investment for a $2700-$3100 gun. With the R8, you lose zero investment and gain $2700-$3100. There is NO downside to this weapon. It makes the other pistols and shotguns obsolete on ecos. Ecos are where you should be trying to make your enemies rebuy guns so they don't snowball in terms of money. With the R8, you can just win the round no matter what the enemies had. It completely goes against everything this game has been balanced on before this point. It is absurd if you didn't think this was game breaking as fuck.
Yeah I said the gun was completely OP pre-nerf, and I think the right click is still pretty OP. As I said before I don't like the "charge" mechanic, but still it somehow balances the huge damage and good accuracy while running. What needs fixing is the right click:
1) Completely RNG accuracy
2) Still pretty deadly close range (as you said maybe better than nova/cz-75)
3) I dont like how good is this with awp as a side arm close range cannon. Same thing was the cz-75 until they changed the switch time, now I would rather have p250 with awp than cz
Other than that, I think the left click is fine right now. Have no idea how to fix it other than completely remove the right click (and maybe change back the charge time to 0.333 again?). Even with that I would rather go for a deagle 9/10 times.
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On December 12 2015 13:08 Censured wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 04:58 zzdd wrote:On December 12 2015 04:45 Censured wrote:On December 12 2015 04:41 saddaromma wrote:On December 12 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote:
I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG. If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that. Nice one, guys use this line when you have no argument but you disagree. Yeeaaaah, no. On December 12 2015 04:16 zzdd wrote:
If you didn't think it was that good then, no offence, but you're probably bad at the game. Well good thing you wrote "no offence", because if I have a different opinion I must be clearly really bad, right? If you didn't see how it completely breaks the game pre-nerf then you must not have a good understanding of the game. I don't think it's possible to have a different opinion than that if you know the game. To clarify, for example, we take an eco round, normally you buy a pistol, maybe shotgun/smg and try to get some damage/kills. With the R8, you will get kills. There is no try with this gun. Paying $850 (!!!!!) on an eco, getting a kill, and then taking the enemies rifle is completely game breaking right there. This gun is a multiple shot zeus than can also kill long range. It was literally an awp without a scope. If you don't think that's completely game breaking right there than we must be playing different games. Compared to a nova (which is not a one hit kill normally) which is $1200, you instead can get an R8 and also a smoke or two flashes for the same price and have a better chance at killing your enemy and better utility. It also is better in every way than a nova. If you get a kill with a nova, you drop your nova for their rifle meaning you lose your $1200 investment for a $2700-$3100 gun. With the R8, you lose zero investment and gain $2700-$3100. There is NO downside to this weapon. It makes the other pistols and shotguns obsolete on ecos. Ecos are where you should be trying to make your enemies rebuy guns so they don't snowball in terms of money. With the R8, you can just win the round no matter what the enemies had. It completely goes against everything this game has been balanced on before this point. It is absurd if you didn't think this was game breaking as fuck. Yeah I said the gun was completely OP pre-nerf, and I think the right click is still pretty OP. As I said before I don't like the "charge" mechanic, but still it somehow balances the huge damage and good accuracy while running. What needs fixing is the right click: 1) Completely RNG accuracy 2) Still pretty deadly close range (as you said maybe better than nova/cz-75) 3) I dont like how good is this with awp as a side arm close range cannon. Same thing was the cz-75 until they changed the switch time, now I would rather have p250 with awp than cz Other than that, I think the left click is fine right now. Have no idea how to fix it other than completely remove the right click (and maybe change back the charge time to 0.333 again?). Even with that I would rather go for a deagle 9/10 times.
My mistake then. I thought you said it wasn't OP pre-nerf.
I don't think a gun where you get 100% moving accuracy should do insane damage even with slow firing. If they nerfed movement accuracy, that might actually balance the gun to a degree.
I don't think the delay is really that big a deal because it gives you time to aim and if the enemy moves, you know they don't have a good shot on you (for the most part). If they stand still, you get can get a free hit and maybe kill if you get the hs which isn't too hard to get because of how accurate it is. Since you can just move around as they're standing still, they have to compensate their aim while you're just lining up your easy shot. I would only use left click for long range and never for close range.
If you peek at far distances and hold close distances, you can play to the gun's strengths, making it really strong on ecos. Of course, if you miss your shot, you're more likely to get punished but that goes for most sniper like guns. If the gun was $1300 or $1400, I think that would make it tolerable to leave in the game as is but I still think it needs some kind of nerf.
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I mean if we're getting personal I'd like to casually mention that Censured is a total scum bag. He always shoots me whenever we try to knife duel :D
The r8 seems fine now and it probably won't be to bad. I can't see myself buying it that often because I'm ass with it.
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On December 12 2015 13:46 zzdd wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 13:08 Censured wrote:On December 12 2015 04:58 zzdd wrote:On December 12 2015 04:45 Censured wrote:On December 12 2015 04:41 saddaromma wrote:On December 12 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote:
I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG. If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that. Nice one, guys use this line when you have no argument but you disagree. Yeeaaaah, no. On December 12 2015 04:16 zzdd wrote:
If you didn't think it was that good then, no offence, but you're probably bad at the game. Well good thing you wrote "no offence", because if I have a different opinion I must be clearly really bad, right? If you didn't see how it completely breaks the game pre-nerf then you must not have a good understanding of the game. I don't think it's possible to have a different opinion than that if you know the game. To clarify, for example, we take an eco round, normally you buy a pistol, maybe shotgun/smg and try to get some damage/kills. With the R8, you will get kills. There is no try with this gun. Paying $850 (!!!!!) on an eco, getting a kill, and then taking the enemies rifle is completely game breaking right there. This gun is a multiple shot zeus than can also kill long range. It was literally an awp without a scope. If you don't think that's completely game breaking right there than we must be playing different games. Compared to a nova (which is not a one hit kill normally) which is $1200, you instead can get an R8 and also a smoke or two flashes for the same price and have a better chance at killing your enemy and better utility. It also is better in every way than a nova. If you get a kill with a nova, you drop your nova for their rifle meaning you lose your $1200 investment for a $2700-$3100 gun. With the R8, you lose zero investment and gain $2700-$3100. There is NO downside to this weapon. It makes the other pistols and shotguns obsolete on ecos. Ecos are where you should be trying to make your enemies rebuy guns so they don't snowball in terms of money. With the R8, you can just win the round no matter what the enemies had. It completely goes against everything this game has been balanced on before this point. It is absurd if you didn't think this was game breaking as fuck. Yeah I said the gun was completely OP pre-nerf, and I think the right click is still pretty OP. As I said before I don't like the "charge" mechanic, but still it somehow balances the huge damage and good accuracy while running. What needs fixing is the right click: 1) Completely RNG accuracy 2) Still pretty deadly close range (as you said maybe better than nova/cz-75) 3) I dont like how good is this with awp as a side arm close range cannon. Same thing was the cz-75 until they changed the switch time, now I would rather have p250 with awp than cz Other than that, I think the left click is fine right now. Have no idea how to fix it other than completely remove the right click (and maybe change back the charge time to 0.333 again?). Even with that I would rather go for a deagle 9/10 times. My mistake then. I thought you said it wasn't OP pre-nerf. I don't think a gun where you get 100% moving accuracy should do insane damage even with slow firing. If they nerfed movement accuracy, that might actually balance the gun to a degree. I don't think the delay is really that big a deal because it gives you time to aim and if the enemy moves, you know they don't have a good shot on you (for the most part). If they stand still, you get can get a free hit and maybe kill if you get the hs which isn't too hard to get because of how accurate it is. Since you can just move around as they're standing still, they have to compensate their aim while you're just lining up your easy shot. I would only use left click for long range and never for close range. If you peek at far distances and hold close distances, you can play to the gun's strengths, making it really strong on ecos. Of course, if you miss your shot, you're more likely to get punished but that goes for most sniper like guns. If the gun was $1300 or $1400, I think that would make it tolerable to leave in the game as is but I still think it needs some kind of nerf.
Yeah but 850 is still a lot for an eco. If it would cost 1300/1400 I personally would never buy it.
The thing about moving around while shooting - maybe nerf the moving speed with it then? Nerf it to something absurd, like negev moving speed or something. I mean it wouldnt make any sense (why would you move so slow with a pistol), but I think that would help that problem. But I would still rather have the insane moving accuracy on R8 than the right click shotgun mode. IMO that's the real problem, it does much better job close range than cz-75 which is kinda designed for close range only. And it goes perfectly together with an awp. If they fix these 2 issues the gun is completely fine in my eyes.
On December 12 2015 16:23 porkRaven wrote:
I mean if we're getting personal I'd like to casually mention that Censured is a total scum bag. He always shoots me whenever we try to knife duel :D
I see what you did there
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The new timers are shit. You cannot delay your opponents really at all, because the round lasts so damn long. gg in fucking up the game vulva.
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Canada4481 Posts
But... they shortened it compared to MM times.
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On December 12 2015 21:26 Nagisama wrote:
But... they shortened it compared to MM times.
Yea they shortened it compared to MM times, but when you try to play tournaments or scrims its a joke :D
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Canada4481 Posts
Not sure if cevo changed its times to MM times now. So don't really notice.
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On December 12 2015 23:10 Nagisama wrote:
Not sure if cevo changed its times to MM times now. So don't really notice.
Faceit atleast did (spoiler alert: its cancer)
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Sounds like some confirmation bias in here.
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Russian Federation4050 Posts
On December 12 2015 21:26 Nagisama wrote:
But... they shortened it compared to MM times.
They shortened it compared to scrub times.
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On December 12 2015 23:53 Kipsate wrote:
Sounds like some confirmation bias in here.
Sorry, i dont see the point of switching something that works for sure, to something much less stabile and most likely will force even more changes. Delaying your opponent on CT with nades is pretty much useless now, which makes for a much slower paced game (yayy welcome sitting on your ass until theres 30 secs left and CTs dont have almost any nades left).
On the other hand i despise the rifle changes even more. The nerf on ak and m4 was absolutely uncalled for, adds RNG and lessens the skill ceiling. I presume were going to see SG and AUG being bought alot more now (which i dont really like, if i wanted to see scope rifles id play CoD).
Overall it feels like Volvo is switching up things just for the sake of switching up things. As the saying goes "dont fix what isnt broken". Well Volvo just did it (spoiler alert: its more broken than before)
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On December 12 2015 17:57 Censured wrote:Show nested quote +On December 12 2015 13:46 zzdd wrote:On December 12 2015 13:08 Censured wrote:On December 12 2015 04:58 zzdd wrote:On December 12 2015 04:45 Censured wrote:On December 12 2015 04:41 saddaromma wrote:On December 12 2015 02:16 Roggay wrote:On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote:
I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG. If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that. Nice one, guys use this line when you have no argument but you disagree. Yeeaaaah, no. On December 12 2015 04:16 zzdd wrote:
If you didn't think it was that good then, no offence, but you're probably bad at the game. Well good thing you wrote "no offence", because if I have a different opinion I must be clearly really bad, right? If you didn't see how it completely breaks the game pre-nerf then you must not have a good understanding of the game. I don't think it's possible to have a different opinion than that if you know the game. To clarify, for example, we take an eco round, normally you buy a pistol, maybe shotgun/smg and try to get some damage/kills. With the R8, you will get kills. There is no try with this gun. Paying $850 (!!!!!) on an eco, getting a kill, and then taking the enemies rifle is completely game breaking right there. This gun is a multiple shot zeus than can also kill long range. It was literally an awp without a scope. If you don't think that's completely game breaking right there than we must be playing different games. Compared to a nova (which is not a one hit kill normally) which is $1200, you instead can get an R8 and also a smoke or two flashes for the same price and have a better chance at killing your enemy and better utility. It also is better in every way than a nova. If you get a kill with a nova, you drop your nova for their rifle meaning you lose your $1200 investment for a $2700-$3100 gun. With the R8, you lose zero investment and gain $2700-$3100. There is NO downside to this weapon. It makes the other pistols and shotguns obsolete on ecos. Ecos are where you should be trying to make your enemies rebuy guns so they don't snowball in terms of money. With the R8, you can just win the round no matter what the enemies had. It completely goes against everything this game has been balanced on before this point. It is absurd if you didn't think this was game breaking as fuck. Yeah I said the gun was completely OP pre-nerf, and I think the right click is still pretty OP. As I said before I don't like the "charge" mechanic, but still it somehow balances the huge damage and good accuracy while running. What needs fixing is the right click: 1) Completely RNG accuracy 2) Still pretty deadly close range (as you said maybe better than nova/cz-75) 3) I dont like how good is this with awp as a side arm close range cannon. Same thing was the cz-75 until they changed the switch time, now I would rather have p250 with awp than cz Other than that, I think the left click is fine right now. Have no idea how to fix it other than completely remove the right click (and maybe change back the charge time to 0.333 again?). Even with that I would rather go for a deagle 9/10 times. My mistake then. I thought you said it wasn't OP pre-nerf. I don't think a gun where you get 100% moving accuracy should do insane damage even with slow firing. If they nerfed movement accuracy, that might actually balance the gun to a degree. I don't think the delay is really that big a deal because it gives you time to aim and if the enemy moves, you know they don't have a good shot on you (for the most part). If they stand still, you get can get a free hit and maybe kill if you get the hs which isn't too hard to get because of how accurate it is. Since you can just move around as they're standing still, they have to compensate their aim while you're just lining up your easy shot. I would only use left click for long range and never for close range. If you peek at far distances and hold close distances, you can play to the gun's strengths, making it really strong on ecos. Of course, if you miss your shot, you're more likely to get punished but that goes for most sniper like guns. If the gun was $1300 or $1400, I think that would make it tolerable to leave in the game as is but I still think it needs some kind of nerf. Yeah but 850 is still a lot for an eco. If it would cost 1300/1400 I personally would never buy it. The thing about moving around while shooting - maybe nerf the moving speed with it then? Nerf it to something absurd, like negev moving speed or something. I mean it wouldnt make any sense (why would you move so slow with a pistol), but I think that would help that problem. But I would still rather have the insane moving accuracy on R8 than the right click shotgun mode. IMO that's the real problem, it does much better job close range than cz-75 which is kinda designed for close range only. And it goes perfectly together with an awp. If they fix these 2 issues the gun is completely fine in my eyes.
I think $850 is too good for a pistol that is arguably better than a $1200 nova and you don't have to drop it if you get a rifle off an enemy. Personally, I would buy an R8 every CT eco on a map like Inferno. It's perfect for a second round buy. Maybe not as much on T unless I have a specific idea for it as tec-9 is still the classic OP pistol.
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Missed the R8 thing, must have been pretty funny.
I hate everything about this patch. The rifle and pistol changes and the round/bomb timer. It all sucks --
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GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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I hate the round time change I think. The r8 addition was just dumb as fuck, basically a Holiday cash grab by Valve. Ugh, whatever.
As for the rifle recoil reset change... I seriously think I really like it. I think the "rifle nerf" thing is being overblown, both the AK and m4a4 feel fine, just slightly different. feels a bit more like 1.6 TBH which I like. Going for full spray at long range should have never been a thing in CS anyway.
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Can someone please explain how the "rifle change" "lowers the skill ceiling" and "adds more RNG"? Sorry if I missed something. But from my own personal experiences, this change is better for nutty aimers at range. Better for T entry fraggers getting multi-kills opening up bombsites if CT's don't play it perfectly, due to faster recoil reset. I really really like that.
I just don't understand how people are thinking these rifle changes are SO DRAMATIC and are a "nerf" to the AK and m4a4. Maybe I just haven't experienced it yet in my matches. Having to adapt isn't always such a terrible thing.
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Hyrule19200 Posts
they literally added more RNG to each shot trajectory calculations
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EPT
