On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG.
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
Except you don't get to choose where and how you engage in most situations. By that logic you should never buy a rifle because there are very few spots where you would have an advantage and you will have to get close range eventually. The direction the game is going means everyone should just buy a p90 and revolver every round as that covers every possible scenario and are the best weapons now. Aiming is dead. Long live run and gun.
I really don't think it is that OP anymore. In fact I'd rather have a deagle than an R8 in most situations.
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote: If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
If you dont wanna play Counter-Strike there are loads of other shooters. Counter-Strike have been one of the deepest and best shooters for more than a decade, and its largely because of extremely reliable core weapons with high skill ceilings and very little rng.
in cs1.6 there were several spray patterns and which one u got was literally determined by RNG
but at the same time, bursting and tapping work fantastically. 1.6 implemented the balance between spraying/bursting/tapping right. One could attempt to spray at long distances which would be extremely hard to pull off, but it if did work, was a god tier play.
On December 12 2015 02:22 zzdd wrote: R8 is still OP but not broken. It's an $850 scout and shotgun. The only weapon you will need on an eco still.
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:
On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG.
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
Except you don't get to choose where and how you engage in most situations. By that logic you should never buy a rifle because there are very few spots where you would have an advantage and you will have to get close range eventually. The direction the game is going means everyone should just buy a p90 and revolver every round as that covers every possible scenario and are the best weapons now. Aiming is dead. Long live run and gun.
I really don't think it is that OP anymore. In fact I'd rather have a deagle than an R8 in most situations.
It's OP because of it's price and the fact that it will do 80-90 damage if you get any hit and kills with 1 hs. It's a scout without a scope and a long range shotgun all in one and has 100% moving accuracy.
If you prefire a corner with this gun and there is someone there, they will be 1 hitable with any gun and there is nothing they could do about it. A good nade (even a bad one) or having teammates soften them up makes this gun essentially the same. Also you can get the enemy's gun after a kill. It's still very OP.
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote: If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
If you dont wanna play Counter-Strike there are loads of other shooters. Counter-Strike have been one of the deepest and best shooters for more than a decade, and its largely because of extremely reliable core weapons with high skill ceilings and very little rng.
in cs1.6 there were several spray patterns and which one u got was literally determined by RNG
but at the same time, bursting and tapping work fantastically. 1.6 implemented the balance between spraying/bursting/tapping right. One could attempt to spray at long distances which would be extremely hard to pull off, but it if did work, was a god tier play.
im not disagreeing with you, (big fan of your articles btw), im just trying to point out that inheritly RNG itself doesnt necessarily ruin the skill-ceiling within the game.
i havent played too much of the game since the patch came out, so i cant say too much about how the new rifle balance affects the game. i dont think increasing more RNG within the rifles is that bad of a change. maybe the way valve implemented it was awful (theyll probably tweak it in the future), but i feel the core principles are a step in the right direction. i'd much rather have RNG force players to change the distances at which bursting, spraying, and tapping are preferable. the way it was before, GO was literally a sprayfest, very one-dimensional when everyone could spray at any time. now we'll see variety in the way each player approaches differing tactical situations in the game
itll take a few weeks to see how the rifle changes the game but im excited for it. i thought the AWP change was horrible at first but looking back now I think its a pretty good change to the game.
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote: If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
If you dont wanna play Counter-Strike there are loads of other shooters. Counter-Strike have been one of the deepest and best shooters for more than a decade, and its largely because of extremely reliable core weapons with high skill ceilings and very little rng.
in cs1.6 there were several spray patterns and which one u got was literally determined by RNG
but at the same time, bursting and tapping work fantastically. 1.6 implemented the balance between spraying/bursting/tapping right. One could attempt to spray at long distances which would be extremely hard to pull off, but it if did work, was a god tier play.
im not disagreeing with you, (big fan of your articles btw), im just trying to point out that inheritly RNG itself doesnt necessarily ruin the skill-ceiling within the game.
i havent played too much of the game since the patch came out, so i cant say too much about how the new rifle balance affects the game. i dont think increasing more RNG within the rifles is that bad of a change. maybe the way valve implemented it was awful (theyll probably tweak it in the future), but i feel the core principles are a step in the right direction. i'd much rather have RNG force players to change the distances at which bursting, spraying, and tapping are preferable. the way it was before, GO was literally a sprayfest, very one-dimensional when everyone could spray at any time. now we'll see variety in the way each player approaches differing tactical situations in the game
itll take a few weeks to see how the rifle changes the game but im excited for it. i thought the AWP change was horrible at first but looking back now I think its a pretty good change to the game.
You are right in that its a good idea to make players take more effort to spray at long ranges and what not. I'm dissappointed that valve did that implementation wrong completely by nerfing both tapping, bursting, and spraying because the core implementation of their accuracy decay is flawed. It will take a long time for valve to fix that
On December 12 2015 02:22 zzdd wrote: R8 is still OP but not broken. It's an $850 scout and shotgun. The only weapon you will need on an eco still.
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:
On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG.
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
Except you don't get to choose where and how you engage in most situations. By that logic you should never buy a rifle because there are very few spots where you would have an advantage and you will have to get close range eventually. The direction the game is going means everyone should just buy a p90 and revolver every round as that covers every possible scenario and are the best weapons now. Aiming is dead. Long live run and gun.
I really don't think it is that OP anymore. In fact I'd rather have a deagle than an R8 in most situations.
It's OP because of it's price and the fact that it will do 80-90 damage if you get any hit and kills with 1 hs. It's a scout without a scope and a long range shotgun all in one and has 100% moving accuracy.
If you prefire a corner with this gun and there is someone there, they will be 1 hitable with any gun and there is nothing they could do about it. A good nade (even a bad one) or having teammates soften them up makes this gun essentially the same. Also you can get the enemy's gun after a kill. It's still very OP.
Am I the only one who thinks the weapon is now absolutely fine? Even before the patch, I dont think it was THAT good. Yes, it was OP, but the 0.4 sec before you can fire (which is imo a really bad mechanic and has no place in CS) balanced it out. The real problem was (still is?) the right click with its RNG. Yes you can prefire every corner, but you got only 16 bullets, so good luck with that. Even if you hit with the prefire, there is another 0.4 sec before you can fire again and that should be enough for good player to kill you.
Idk man. It seems 10 times better than the T counterpart. It also seems that pros agree. It gets bought a lot more than Galil. I know what he meant, but I actually like the Famas.
On December 12 2015 02:22 zzdd wrote: R8 is still OP but not broken. It's an $850 scout and shotgun. The only weapon you will need on an eco still.
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote:
On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG.
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
Except you don't get to choose where and how you engage in most situations. By that logic you should never buy a rifle because there are very few spots where you would have an advantage and you will have to get close range eventually. The direction the game is going means everyone should just buy a p90 and revolver every round as that covers every possible scenario and are the best weapons now. Aiming is dead. Long live run and gun.
I really don't think it is that OP anymore. In fact I'd rather have a deagle than an R8 in most situations.
It's OP because of it's price and the fact that it will do 80-90 damage if you get any hit and kills with 1 hs. It's a scout without a scope and a long range shotgun all in one and has 100% moving accuracy.
If you prefire a corner with this gun and there is someone there, they will be 1 hitable with any gun and there is nothing they could do about it. A good nade (even a bad one) or having teammates soften them up makes this gun essentially the same. Also you can get the enemy's gun after a kill. It's still very OP.
Am I the only one who thinks the weapon is now absolutely fine? Even before the patch, I dont think it was THAT good. Yes, it was OP, but the 0.4 sec before you can fire (which is imo a really bad mechanic and has no place in CS) balanced it out. The real problem was (still is?) the right click with its RNG. Yes you can prefire every corner, but you got only 16 bullets, so good luck with that. Even if you hit with the prefire, there is another 0.4 sec before you can fire again and that should be enough for good player to kill you.
If you didn't think it was that good then, no offence, but you're probably bad at the game. You could hold any close angle and win most of the time. This is very OP when you're on an eco and on CT side as you get an easy, uncounterable kill and a free gun. You can prefire any angle and if there is someone there you get a free kill. I had insane kills by prefiring this gun around corners and common angles. You don't prefire every single corner but the ones where you know or think an enemy is. If you missed you can just keep holding m1 and the with the delay, they would peek you and you would just kill them in your next shot. Even if you missed, they still have to get 3-4 shots on you to kill you if you're holding a good angle and you just have to hit one. There were many instances where I was looking somewhere else but since they have shoot more than one bullets to kill you, I could turn and get an instant kill. Before 16 bullets was completely retardedly OP as you only need 5 bullets to kill the whole team. And this is a fucking pistol. You can still carry any primary you want.
Even post-nerf you have 100% moving accuracy so you never need to stop moving and can just move back around the corner if you miss. Good luck doing 30-50 damage to me before I do 80-90 damage to you. The 0.4 only effects you if you're standing in the open as you can be mobile and dodge their shots or hold an angle where they cannot react fast enough. And no, no matter how good a player is, 0.4 is barely enough time to get a kill and that's only if you get the 1 kill hs which is not possible with most guns. It's not as broken as it was pre-nerf but it's still incredibly powerful and should be nerfed again. Raising the price would make this gun tolerable.
The gun was really OP yes but I don't think it is that good anymore. Atleast I prefer the deagle in most situation except when you are using it like a shotgun. Well, I guess its a pretty good shotgun for its price. I think they could maybe nerf moving and jumping accuracy because thats bs to begin with.
Also my major gripe with the gun is that its mechanics has nothing to do with cs really. It's more something you would find in overwatch or tf2.
On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG.
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that.
Nice one, guys use this line when you have no argument but you disagree.
On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG.
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that.
Nice one, guys use this line when you have no argument but you disagree.
Yeeaaaah, no.
On December 12 2015 04:16 zzdd wrote: If you didn't think it was that good then, no offence, but you're probably bad at the game.
Well good thing you wrote "no offence", because if I have a different opinion I must be clearly really bad, right?
On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people.
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG.
If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun.
Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite".
There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that.
Nice one, guys use this line when you have no argument but you disagree.
On December 12 2015 04:16 zzdd wrote: If you didn't think it was that good then, no offence, but you're probably bad at the game.
Well good thing you wrote "no offence", because if I have a different opinion I must be clearly really bad, right?
If you didn't see how it completely breaks the game pre-nerf then you must not have a good understanding of the game. I don't think it's possible to have a different opinion than that if you know the game.
To clarify, for example, we take an eco round, normally you buy a pistol, maybe shotgun/smg and try to get some damage/kills. With the R8, you will get kills. There is no try with this gun. Paying $850 (!!!!!) on an eco, getting a kill, and then taking the enemies rifle is completely game breaking right there. This gun is a multiple shot zeus than can also kill long range. It was literally an awp without a scope. If you don't think that's completely game breaking right there than we must be playing different games.
Compared to a nova (which is not a one hit kill normally) which is $1200, you instead can get an R8 and also a smoke or two flashes for the same price and have a better chance at killing your enemy and better utility. It also is better in every way than a nova. If you get a kill with a nova, you drop your nova for their rifle meaning you lose your $1200 investment for a $2700-$3100 gun. With the R8, you lose zero investment and gain $2700-$3100. There is NO downside to this weapon. It makes the other pistols and shotguns obsolete on ecos. Ecos are where you should be trying to make your enemies rebuy guns so they don't snowball in terms of money. With the R8, you can just win the round no matter what the enemies had. It completely goes against everything this game has been balanced on before this point. It is absurd if you didn't think this was game breaking as fuck.
Censured is actually good at the game, so maybe play with someone before you make insulting them an introduction point for your arguments.
That being said I disagree with him on the guns power pre-nerf. Right click at close range was fucking nuts, and quick 1 shot peaks with the left click was crazy strong, like old school aggressive awping but faster. Haven't had enough time to think about it post-nerf to form a substantial opinion.
On December 12 2015 08:01 Camail wrote: Censured is actually good at the game, so maybe play with someone before you make insulting them an introduction point for your arguments.
That being said I disagree with him on the guns power pre-nerf. Right click at close range was fucking nuts, and quick 1 shot peaks with the left click was crazy strong, like old school aggressive awping but faster. Haven't had enough time to think about it post-nerf to form a substantial opinion.
Doesn't really matter how good he is. If he thinks the R8 wasn't broken, he would wrong.
Maybe instead of just dismissing him because he doesn't immediately agree with the points you make, you could address the points he has made? I briefly mentioned that the .4 second delay can be mitigated by a particular type of skirmishing.
Maybe you could also do research regarding the CZ before it got a huge nerf. If the time to kill in close ranges is similar in both the post-nerf r8 and the pre-nerf CZ, then you would have a strong case for it's imbalance. This gun might even become the AWPer's new best friend like the CZ was.
There are many ways to go about convincing Censured to agree with you, if that is your goal.
The aspect I liked about the R8 in his first form was that it reduced the number of eco rounds in my games. And I think eco rounds are boring most of the time.
On December 12 2015 09:35 Camail wrote: I'm not defending his opinions, just his person.
Maybe instead of just dismissing him because he doesn't immediately agree with the points you make, you could address the points he has made? I briefly mentioned that the .4 second delay can be mitigated by a particular type of skirmishing.
Maybe you could also do research regarding the CZ before it got a huge nerf. If the time to kill in close ranges is similar in both the post-nerf r8 and the pre-nerf CZ, then you would have a strong case for it's imbalance. This gun might even become the AWPer's new best friend like the CZ was.
There are many ways to go about convincing Censured to agree with you, if that is your goal.
I already did.
Another interesting thing I checked was the deagle takes about 0.8-1.6s to reset accuracy. R8 is even better for going for headshots and you don't have to stop moving lol. R8 is pretty much better than a deagle in every way.
EPT
