EPTThe Big Patch Thread - Page 18
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Aocowns
Norway6070 Posts
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Nagisama
Canada4481 Posts
Tapping/burst is also nerfed, just not as much as spraying, so that's valve's justification on "buffing/encouraging" tap/bursting, aka bs. It takes longer per burst to fire again. So your first bursts better be accurate, or else your opponent will kill you with theirs. But wait, first shot is inaccurate, and has pretty high variability, so while you're aiming at their head to "burst/tap", it might not even hit their head. And while you're bad and NOT aiming at their head, you might hit their head. Thus rewarding more RNG instead of actual skill of "I aimed and fired at the guys head, therefore he should be dead." So instead you'll probably still get more spraying, and more random ass weapons like p90s/smgs, which encourages more running and gunning because the rifles don't have that dependable accuracy for a skilled person to aim/take them out. /rant | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
On December 15 2015 23:34 Aocowns wrote: and I think you have it wrong, recoil reset time isn't faster, it's slower. So sure that kinda makes tapping and bursting sound better in theory, but they actually nerfed every way of shooting a rifle, they just nerfed tapping the least. Then you also have the laughable first shot accuracy of the AK and whatnot, and the end result is that spraying is most likely still preferred to tapping like it was before, except weird buys are gonna be even better because spraying down rushers is worse P90 all day! | ||
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waffelz
Germany711 Posts
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Censured
Czech Republic1061 Posts
On December 15 2015 23:06 jonich0n wrote: I just don't understand how people are thinking these rifle changes are SO DRAMATIC and are a "nerf" to the AK and m4a4. Maybe I just haven't experienced it yet in my matches. Having to adapt isn't always such a terrible thing. Exactly how I feel. I mean I don't think rifles needed some changes in the first place, but reddit with its hivemind made it look like the game is literally unplayable right now. Me personally, I didnt notice any change in spraying close/mid distances. And if they would actually buff tapping (like they said on their blog) and first shot accuracy, I would actually like the patch (not speaking about the timers and r8 now) On December 16 2015 00:17 waffelz wrote: Is there a good review on the spray/tap changes around? Like real research with graphs/comparisons and not just ranting and “logical” arguments to prove it is really that bad? I would like to see hard facts and the comparison of real data instead of weird arguments. I think I saw post on reddit which said spraying with AK from pit to A site on D2 is 8% more inaccurate. I will try to find it | ||
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Latringuden
Sweden79 Posts
On December 16 2015 00:17 waffelz wrote: Is there a good review on the spray/tap changes around? Like real research with graphs/comparisons and not just ranting and “logical” arguments to prove it is really that bad? I would like to see hard facts and the comparison of real data instead of weird arguments. There's this: and tbh, watching the numbers that he pulls off in his test (which is aimed at the head) a midrange perfect stand still recoil compensation aimed at center mass would more or less get you 100% hits. The same dude made some other video about tapping which I haven't watched yet os I dunno if it's good (I like the first one so I'll still link it). | ||
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RuiBarbO
United States1340 Posts
On December 16 2015 01:02 Latringuden wrote: There's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ocoqjsLd44 and tbh, watching the numbers that he pulls off in his test (which is aimed at the head) a midrange perfect stand still recoil compensation aimed at center mass would more or less get you 100% hits. The same dude made some other video about tapping which I haven't watched yet os I dunno if it's good (I like the first one so I'll still link it). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wgLWOqe-VXY Wow... So that's surprising. 15-round burst with AK is virtually the same as before, while 5-round burst with AK is 25% worse. Seems like someone didn't test this patch before it went live? I mean the R8 could be chalked up to mistaken predictions on how the gun would play, but this is just a straightforward mistake with the numbers. | ||
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jonich0n
United States1982 Posts
On December 16 2015 00:28 Censured wrote: Exactly how I feel. I mean I don't think rifles needed some changes in the first place, but reddit with its hivemind made it look like the game is literally unplayable right now. Me personally, I didnt notice any change in spraying close/mid distances. And if they would actually buff tapping (like they said on their blog) and first shot accuracy, I would actually like the patch (not speaking about the timers and r8 now) Yeah... I think people need to do more conclusive pre- and post- tests on how this affects the AK and M4a4 in various shooting techniques (tapping, bursting, spraying at various ranges). Honestly, the game has always felt a bit too random (first shot inaccuracy etc) so this update didn't change things significantly all that much. Again, I don't think long range spraying should ever even be a thing in CS, ever. Maybe it's just me. All I can say is I feel ADAD quick 3-4 shot bursts actually feels "better: now... but I'd need to play a lot more to confirm. Which may mean it'd be better than that annoying strafing silver crouch spray bullshit in more situations which I personally think would be nice for the game. Any change that raises the skill ceiling by rewarding more precise faster aimers is GREAT in my book. I'm just not sure if how this patch has affected things at the top level yet, and I'm sure as hell not convinced many people know at all as well. Reddit hivemind knows jackshit, that should go without saying. | ||
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Nagisama
Canada4481 Posts
On December 16 2015 02:42 jonich0n wrote: Yeah... I think people need to do more conclusive pre- and post- tests on how this affects the AK and M4a4 in various shooting techniques (tapping, bursting, spraying at various ranges). Honestly, the game has always felt a bit too random (first shot inaccuracy etc) so this update didn't change things significantly all that much. Again, I don't think long range spraying should ever even be a thing in CS, ever. Maybe it's just me. All I can say is I feel ADAD quick 3-4 shot bursts actually feels "better: now... but I'd need to play a lot more to confirm. Which may mean it'd be better than that annoying strafing silver crouch spray bullshit in more situations which I personally think would be nice for the game. Any change that raises the skill ceiling by rewarding more precise faster aimers is GREAT in my book. I'm just not sure if how this patch has affected things at the top level yet, and I'm sure as hell not convinced many people know at all as well. Reddit hivemind knows jackshit, that should go without saying. Like this? http://imgur.com/a/PDCPj | ||
Jer99
Canada8160 Posts
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porkRaven
United States953 Posts
Recovery Time 15 Dec 2015 - We made some adjustments to rifles recently, and those changes have been causing a lot of pain in the CS:GO community. The pain was the result of a few mistakes we made, and while we usually prefer to avoid disrupting conversations happening in the community, we wanted to talk about some of the thinking that led to the recent changes as well as our plan for moving forward. Why change rifles at all? In CS:GO, spraying is generally the most popular way of firing a rifle. We can see this pretty clearly in the rifle data that we collect internally, and it’s something we hear the community discussing frequently. Because we think it’s valuable for players to have choices when they’re thinking about how to engage an opponent, we looked at ways to make tapping/bursting a bit more appealing. The hope was that by encouraging more deliberate firing, we would add something skillful that players could use to their advantage. As a first step toward this goal, we increased recoverytime for the AK-47, M4A4, and M4A1-S. For a detailed breakdown of the change and its impact, check out this excellent community post by lalush. Unfortunately, our implementation failed in a few ways. For one thing, increasing inaccuracy while spraying also comes with reduced accuracy for all forms of firing. Proportionally, spraying was the most impacted, but we underestimated the impact that the change would have on players who were already firing in shorter bursts. As it turns out, the adjustments didn’t really achieve the goal either – our rifle data shows that players in all skill groups are still spraying more than tapping or bursting. What’s next? It’s difficult to measure the impact on gameplay when too much changes at once. The Winter Update came with some really huge changes to gameplay, including a new weapon, an adjustment to pistols, and the rifle change. Since we likely changed too much too quickly, in today’s update we’re rolling back both the rifle and pistol adjustments to their pre-Winter Update state. We failed to anticipate the reaction of the community to changes in such heavy-use weapons, and we clearly need to re-evaluate our process for making and communicating about changes in that space. We still think there’s value in trying to find a better balance for pistols and more skillful ways to use rifles, so we hope to tackle rifles and pistols again in the future. We’re constantly reading community feedback and while we don’t often respond directly, understanding the community is one of the most important parts of working on CS:GO. Mistakes happen, but when they do, we’re committed to making sure they get fixed. Happy Holidays, The CS:GO Team | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
THEY ACTUALLY REVERTED THE NERFS!!!!!!!! | ||
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porkRaven
United States953 Posts
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Camail
United States1030 Posts
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GoShox
United States1847 Posts
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Dantak
Czech Republic648 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On December 16 2015 11:11 porkRaven wrote: Wait a minute... this is all a distraction so we don't make a fuss about the round timer changes... oh no Well to be honest, the round timers is the one update where we do need more data before deciding if it is a good one or not so I am fine with them keeping it for now. Other than that, good job Valve for actually listening and admitting your mistakes. I hope they do a better job next time at actually implementing what they are trying to. | ||
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hymn
Bulgaria832 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
If that turns out to actually happen, this could be great. Then, I read the release notes of the new DotA patch and I cry. Seriously, DotA has so many awesome features (not talking about the game itself, but the menu, profile, etc.), CS looks pitiful compared to that: - Still no individual stats, and no, the stats tab isn't even remotely relevant - A horrible interface that has so many UX defects it's not funny, and big up to the Inventory tab which seems to have a lot of leeway when it comes to that, like for example from a lobby you can't access the settings or nearly anything else, but the inventory, yeah why not! - A lot of silly bugs that, while not really hindering play, show somehow a lack of interest in the game, like all the alt-tab UI resize/disappear bugs, the crouching bug on spawn, the flying bug on spawn, that kind of retarded things that has been there for ages | ||
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Yrr
Germany805 Posts
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