EPThttps://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3wyypv/the_ak47s_spraying_inaccuracy_before_and_after/cy0cvph
The Big Patch Thread - Page 20
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jonich0n
United States1982 Posts
https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3wyypv/the_ak47s_spraying_inaccuracy_before_and_after/cy0cvph | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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jonich0n
United States1982 Posts
Try to be a noob in Quake and go up against half-decent players. You'll get fucking destroyed.Like 99-1 K/D for real. Because that's always been a crazy serious competitive game, and I dunno, I personally would like the skill ceiling raised a bit in this game for sure, in terms of individual play. Not to make it impossible for casuals but the game has been around well long enough to raise the ceiling further for sure now. Source2 will be around sooner rather than later isn't it? Obviously there is always room to improve when it comes to teamplay chemistry and tactics in CSGO and all that... but I'm talking about the aim and movement portions of the game specifically. That can be improved and feel more reward for most true "competitors", I definitely believe that still so strongly. If Valve really cared about it. They're sitting back and making bank with the skins and all that. As for the game I think it all still feels not as crisp enough as it could be, not rewarding enough for the nuttiest aimers/talents to stand out more in this game TBH... Dunno. Maybe it's just me (old-school gamer who used to play 1.3-1.6 competively, a bit of Quake, and Brood War even though I was utterly dreadful at that one  ). | ||
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porkRaven
United States953 Posts
 . I'm sure they care a great deal they just might not have similar visions on how to make csgo super great. | ||
Nagisama
Canada4481 Posts
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Dwayn
Germany949 Posts
And why are people talking about 'long range spray'? If never seen anybody spray long range, it's useless. Maybe we have a different understand of what long range means... | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
[MISC] – Client bone setup performance optimizations. – Fixed bullet hits on players beyond max bullet penetration distance always counting as penetration hits. [KILLER REPLAY] – Fixed sometimes incorrect in-scope fog and blur in Killer Replay. – Fixed some instances where a player could get stuck in Killer Replay. [GAME STATE INTEGRATION] – Bomb plant timer Game State Integration event is now slightly delayed when playing on Terrorist or Counter-Terrorist team. – CDN URLs for images of weapons and weapon finishes are now available in items_game_cdn.txt [STEAM CONTROLLER] – Added support for haptic feedback. – Use steam_controller_haptics convar to turn haptics on or off. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On December 18 2015 05:58 jonich0n wrote: ...game still feels so CASUAL in many aspects (aim and movement especially). It's funny to me how baddies with zero aim can just run and gun spray down actually decent players if they're just a tiny but lucky or the opponents are in a position that can't back up their target... Haha so true, whenever I feel my aiming is off or opponents are better than me, I just buy P90 and walk mindlessly on the map, shooting everything that moves. And it works! | ||
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Ricjames
Czech Republic1047 Posts
I can't still get used to bursting/tapping in csgo and often i get owned by low-skilled dude who just sprays over long distance. The outcome is that I tap/burst him for 80-100hp while he spray&pray kills me. This really bothers me as it promotes lower-skilled luck/rng based plays instead of skill. They should definitely increase the accuracy of first bullets as that rewards players with faster and more accurate aiming. I personally would even like nerf to spraying accuracy, but that might be just me being oldschool CS player. Let's hope Valve realizes they need to promote skill and forget the noob-friendly bullshit going around in all games. | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
On December 18 2015 23:05 Ricjames wrote: I would prefer the 1.6 shooting mechanics over actual CSGO any time. CS 1.6 was much more about skill and less about rng/luck. I would call myself very decent 1.6 player (over 3K hours only on steam, but i played cs since it was released). I can't still get used to bursting/tapping in csgo and often i get owned by low-skilled dude who just sprays over long distance. The outcome is that I tap/burst him for 80-100hp while he spray&pray kills me. This really bothers me as it promotes lower-skilled luck/rng based plays instead of skill. They should definitely increase the accuracy of first bullets as that rewards players with faster and more accurate aiming. I personally would even like nerf to spraying accuracy, but that might be just me being oldschool CS player. Let's hope Valve realizes they need to promote skill and forget the noob-friendly bullshit going around in all games. Did you know 1.6 had worse first bullet accuracy? And also more random spraying. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On December 19 2015 04:25 yamato77 wrote: Did you know 1.6 had worse first bullet accuracy? And also more random spraying. Yeah if you are having trouble landing your 4th bullet of a spray then your not doing it right. The spray is GO is very tight and predictable so not being able to control it effectively compared to having to tap is just a lack of skill period. There is no luck in spraying effectively in this game imo. | ||
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decemberscalm
United States1353 Posts
Bursting, tapping, and following up with taps after a burst feels AWFUL in CSGO. http://imgur.com/a/PDCPj It has a lot to do with how quickly bullets start spreading and recoil jerk in CSGO, where they recoil less at first in 1.6. In CSGO your initial burst has some of the biggest jumps your recoil will ever have. It also feels AWFUL to try and replicate followup taps after a burst in CSGO compared to 1.6. After playing 1.6 DM, CSGO recoil feels like its trying to steal my crosshair away. It jerks that thing super hard and far, making follow up taps really cumbersome and unenjoyable to use. This is after a mere 5 shot burst. Feels really nice to followup tap in 1.6. Lastly the recovery time formula encourages spraying in CSGO compared to 1.6. Your 1.6 accuracy regains based on how many bullets you shoot. Shoot 1 bullet? Very small minimal delay in recovery time so rapid tapping feels awesome. Shoot a large spray of bullets? Your accuracy feels is more punished. In CSGO your accuracy regains faster based on the current amount of inaccuracy you have accumulated. Hence, 1 tapping in CSGO your accuracy recovers the slowest, but you do have less built up. Full spray? Your accuracy recovers verrrry quickly because you've built up so much inaccuracy. Lastly you've got map size, and movement. Longer sight lines in 1.6 means it feels more sensical to burst and tap at more ranges. Medium ranges in csgo feel more like long range in 1.6. Combine this with players less able to instantly stop on a dime resume again into a different strafe direction and you get shooting that feels more rewarding for lining up really nice bursts and taps onto a target instead of spray controlling someone down at every range sans cover fights. "CS 1.6 was much more about skill and less about rng/luck" You haven't played CSGO enough. People get VERY good at perfecting their spray pattern. The heat map of a really done 7 shot burst has an insanely high percentage of headshots at most important ranges you'll be fighting in CSGO. The first shot is more accurate than in 1.6, so if you line up your initial burst you are rewarded. There is a reason pros didn't give a shit as much as more casual players on the rifle nerf. They are on point with their initial shots, while us mere mortals rely on our spray control to correct our shots back onto the target. The nerf hurt casual players the most, and pros the least. Its certainly different, but it still absolutely rewards the better player. Its also even faster and more athletic than 1.6. People move faster, fights are in closer ranges and are dirty, quick and deadly. Even so I do prefer 1.6 shooting mechanics, its just simply better feeling to me, and more enjoyable to kill people in. I'd prefer a single static spray pattern, but less explosive jerk. More of a thread the needle and fine tuned spray control rather than these giant vertical and horizontal patterns. Combine that with larger and roomier feeling maps plus less explosive inaccuracy growth. This is a situation where the spray nerf for rifle makes sense. CSGO didn't have anything to compensate for the nerfed spray style to make up for it. So people just kept spraying, just with more rng towards the latter half of the spray. Oh and I forgot, compensating for spray recoil in 1.6 feels awesome. You've got amazing visual feedback, and can even manually compensate mid spray. In CSGO this feels more ugly relying on tracers at anything past short range where you can easily see the wall behind your opponent. Whats sad is I have the last 4 bullets of my M4A1 in CSGO memorized, so I know where to offset my crosshair from my target if I just need to get 1 or 2 more bullets onto him. This is just kinda silly in my opinion. End Rant. | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
On December 19 2015 08:40 decemberscalm wrote: I played a bunch of deathmatch in 1.6 to remove bits of nostalgia. I never played CS seriously until CSGO, but I did casually play 1.6. Take this as someone who never gave a shit about 1.6 shooting mechanics back in its glory days. Bursting, tapping, and following up with taps after a burst feels AWFUL in CSGO. http://imgur.com/a/PDCPj It has a lot to do with how quickly bullets start spreading and recoil jerk in CSGO, where they recoil less at first in 1.6. In CSGO your initial burst has some of the biggest jumps your recoil will ever have. It also feels AWFUL to try and replicate followup taps after a burst in CSGO compared to 1.6. After playing 1.6 DM, CSGO recoil feels like its trying to steal my crosshair away. It jerks that thing super hard and far, making follow up taps really cumbersome and unenjoyable to use. This is after a mere 5 shot burst. Feels really nice to followup tap in 1.6. Lastly the recovery time formula encourages spraying in CSGO compared to 1.6. Your 1.6 accuracy regains based on how many bullets you shoot. Shoot 1 bullet? Very small minimal delay in recovery time so rapid tapping feels awesome. Shoot a large spray of bullets? Your accuracy feels is more punished. In CSGO your accuracy regains faster based on the current amount of inaccuracy you have accumulated. Hence, 1 tapping in CSGO your accuracy recovers the slowest, but you do have less built up. Full spray? Your accuracy recovers verrrry quickly because you've built up so much inaccuracy. Lastly you've got map size, and movement. Longer sight lines in 1.6 means it feels more sensical to burst and tap at more ranges. Medium ranges in csgo feel more like long range in 1.6. Combine this with players less able to instantly stop on a dime resume again into a different strafe direction and you get shooting that feels more rewarding for lining up really nice bursts and taps onto a target instead of spray controlling someone down at every range sans cover fights. "CS 1.6 was much more about skill and less about rng/luck" You haven't played CSGO enough. People get VERY good at perfecting their spray pattern. The heat map of a really done 7 shot burst has an insanely high percentage of headshots at most important ranges you'll be fighting in CSGO. The first shot is more accurate than in 1.6, so if you line up your initial burst you are rewarded. There is a reason pros didn't get a shit as much as more casual players on the rifle nerf. They are on point with their initial shots, while us mere mortals rely on our spray control to correct our shots back onto the target. Its certainly different, but it still absolutely rewards the better player. Its also even faster and more athletic than 1.6. People move faster, fights are in closer ranges and are dirty, quick and deadly. Even so I do prefer 1.6 shooting mechanics, its just simply better feeling to me, and more enjoyable to kill people in. I'd prefer a single static spray pattern, but less explosive jerk. More of a thread the needle and fine tuned spray control rather than these giant vertical and horizontal patterns. Combine that with larger and roomier feeling maps plus less explosive inaccuracy growth. This is a situation where the spray nerf for rifle makes sense. CSGO didn't have anything to compensate for the nerfed spray style to make up for it. So people just kept spraying, just with more rng towards the latter half of the spray. Oh and I forgot, compensating for spray recoil in 1.6 feels awesome. You've got amazing visual feedback, and can even manually compensate mid spray. In CSGO this feels more ugly relying on tracers at anything past short range where you can easily see the wall behind your opponent. Whats sad is I have the last 4 bullets of my M4A1 in CSGO memorized, so I know where to offset my crosshair from my target if I just need to get 1 or 2 more bullets onto him. This is just kinda silly in my opinion. End Rant. Yeah I play more 1.6 than go myself since my friends from back in the CAL days with families and shit play once or twice a week. I pretty much treat them as different games. The only time I will tip is if I have a bobbing head to aim at. Its not fair to compare. Also faster recovery means its easier to transfer sprays aswell. I definately have more fun in 1.6 but thats also because Im playing with old buddies. But man if I dont dm for 30 mins in either game since I dont play much. the muscle memory is totally fucked. | ||
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iXphobos
Germany1464 Posts
On December 18 2015 23:05 Ricjames wrote: I would prefer the 1.6 shooting mechanics over actual CSGO any time. CS 1.6 was much more about skill and less about rng/luck. I would call myself very decent 1.6 player (over 3K hours only on steam, but i played cs since it was released). I can't still get used to bursting/tapping in csgo and often i get owned by low-skilled dude who just sprays over long distance. The outcome is that I tap/burst him for 80-100hp while he spray&pray kills me. This really bothers me as it promotes lower-skilled luck/rng based plays instead of skill. They should definitely increase the accuracy of first bullets as that rewards players with faster and more accurate aiming. I personally would even like nerf to spraying accuracy, but that might be just me being oldschool CS player. Let's hope Valve realizes they need to promote skill and forget the noob-friendly bullshit going around in all games. Skill always beats luck in CS:GO. And CS is so much more than just clicking fast on peoples heads. I am an oldschool player too, and i always liked the fact that quick reactions are not tier 1 important in CS. I play Quake for that. | ||
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jonich0n
United States1982 Posts
On December 19 2015 04:25 yamato77 wrote: Did you know 1.6 had worse first bullet accuracy? And also more random spraying. Yes, you are right on both counts. The "annoying" thing about the rifle shooting mechanics in GO that myself and maybe quite a few others that used to play 1.6 a lot, is the **2nd and 3rd** bullet inaccuracy after that first shot... that in combination with the reset time if you try to tap after taking a quick burst, which just feels annoyingly long and unsatisfying. Which definitely contributes to why spraying (aka any continuous fire after 5+ bullets basically IMO) is almost always the only true best firing technique even at surprisingly long ranges. This is just one aspect of the game which I've always been slightly annoyed by, which just doesn't feel quite "right" in a such a competitive FPS... where it feels in a way "unsatisying", as compared to maybe games like Quake and 1.6 when if you were fragging out and really feeling the aim, you could more consistently take out multiple opponents facing you at once in quick succession (provided one of them misses or fucks up of course, basically punishing their mistakes). Without having to waste precious milliseconds simply waiting for the long recoil reset just so you can be confident your next shot/burst after your first kill will be accurate and not feel random as fuck. Bit more rewarding for great quick aimers I would think and something I would personally think would feel more satisfying. And yes, I know there is the whole spray transfer thing which is currently required in situations like this in GO's current state, but you know, that's my whole thing, I just personally feel it's just a tad too rewarding to spray too often, which I guess many don't have a problem with. Although I would personally love to see if they tried to test a tweak like I suggested above and see what the rest of you would think after taking the time to adapt and seeing how it felt. I'm not talking about massive changes making this game exactly like Quake or anything, but just something. I do appreciate a bunch of their changes even though it feels Valve takes AGES to make what should have been obvious changes... I still like GO as it is, for the most part (except for a few more slightly annoying things but I won't get into that here). I guess I just got super excited with the rifle changes before they reverted and played a lot during those couple days and felt like I was getting used to it and fragging just felt nicer in a way, specifically the recoil reset time after short bursts... but of course I do understand why that was a problem for so many players considering the "randomness" they added to spraying, which has been such an integral technique in GO for so long and what everyone had gotten used to. Just my two cents, trying to explain where I'm coming from with the comments. Some kind of rifle change would definitely be quite refreshing (same with pistols especially) IMO. Can't remember if I posted this in this thread or elsewhere, but here is a link to a comment I liked from one clever reddit poster who suggested as a possible fresh change to rifle shooting mechanics (which would make 2nd 3rd 4th bullets more accurate and "precise" than its current state), which would be interesting to test and see how the playerbase felt... https://www.reddit.com/r/GlobalOffensive/comments/3wyypv/the_ak47s_spraying_inaccuracy_before_and_after/cy0cvph | ||
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Dwayn
Germany949 Posts
It's the 2nd graph in your link. It's still the same graph, they just moved it up a little. I would try have the recoil reset at an increasing rate instead of a steady rate. So it stays the same for spraying as it is, but if your only tapping it resets faster than it does right now. Something like that. | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
GRAPHICS Visually upgraded all first-person arm, hands and glove models. KILLER REPLAY Fixed a bug where client could sometimes get stuck in Killer Replay with a black screen. Fixed a bug where victim weapons could sometimes be invisible in Killer Replay. Player’s own footstep sounds are now correctly mixed as third-person footsteps during Killer Replay. Voice communications are now not faded out before and after Killer Replay. SOUND Reduced volume falloff distance for USP-S. Removed high frequencies from Killer Replay tape sound. Adjusted falloff curve of ricochet and impact sounds. Minor mix tweaks. MATCHMAKING Added official game servers in India. LINUX Upgraded to newer version of libSDL. Improved game performance during the end of match scoreboard. Sound options now distinguish between headphones vs two-speakers options. MISC Added support for in-game broadcast of Regional Minor Championships. | ||
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porkRaven
United States953 Posts
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
HOLIDAY Removed holiday cheer. MISC Added a convar cl_crosshair_sniper_width to allow increasing width of sniper crosshair lines on high dpi monitors or multimonitor setups. Fixed some looping sounds not stopping after Killer Replay. Bomb plant and defuse are excluded from Low-Light playback. Players can no longer vote-kick a bot. An HE grenade not owned by any connected player will no longer result in kicking the victim for too many suicides. LINUX Fixed mouse handling in community server dialog. ART Fixed arms/sleeve textures not rendering in workbench. Fixed minor shadow errors on viewmodels. Optimized CT viewmodel arm texture size. | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
They finally fixed that mouse in community server browser lol. Oh well, that's something I guess. | ||
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