EPT
#REVERTDAPATCHThe Big Patch Thread - Page 15
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porkRaven
United States953 Posts
#REVERTDAPATCH | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
Also it really annoys me when Valve and some people in the community argue that they need to collect more data before reverting something about the rifles. This is missing the point completely. The intention is absolutely fine : making tapping and bursting more viable. But the way it was implemented in this patch is beyond retarded and you don't need more data to tell that adding more rng to all aspect of shooting is terrible and a really lazy design decision that shows how little they know on how to bring balance changes. Guys like Slothsquadron could have done a much much better job at making tapping and bursting more viable without introducing so much randomness. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7103 Posts
On December 11 2015 15:12 Roggay wrote: To be honest the major issue is the rifle change. The R8 would have been nerfed no matter what but they don't seem willing to revert that god awful change to the rifles. Also it really annoys me of Valve and some people in the community argue that they need to collect more data before reverting something about the rifles. This is missing the point completely. The intention is absolutely fine : making tapping and bursting more viable. But the way it was implemented in this patch is beyond retarded and you don't need more data to tell that adding more rng to all aspect of shooting is terrible and a really lazy design decision that shows how little they know on how to bring balance changes. Guys like Slothsquadron could have done a much much better job at making tapping and bursting more viable without introducing so much randomness. 100% agree, youre a smart man Rogg :D | ||
Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
While in fact, it's just that every single way of shooting got nerfed through the recoil... Also, watching apEX awesome spray yesterday night made me sigh. I want this to still be possible. This is only affecting pro-level, and this is so cool...  | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
I am going on a tangent there but it reminds me of the principles of Validation and Verification. To make it short: Validation = Are we building the right product? Verification = Are we building the product right? In this case, the answer to the first question is yes, tapping and bursting is not promoted enough in csgo. But the answer to the second question is no, more rng is not a satisfying solution. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
On December 11 2015 19:13 Roggay wrote: Its sad that even some pro players are taking that bait and confusing the intention and the implementation. For example on his stream Shroud mentionned that he thought it was a good change and that at long ranges it should be harder to spray. And this is exactly where the confusion is ; you do not implement that by making everything more random, that's just lazy and it's sad that some people give that reasonning a free pass. I am going on a tangent there but it reminds me of the principles of Validation and Verification. To make it short: Validation = Are we building the right product? Verification = Are we building the product right? In this case, the answer to the first question is yes, tapping and bursting is not promoted enough in csgo. But the answer to the second question is no, more rng is not a satisfying solution. I had a class with literally that topic in my studies. :D They clearly failed to answer correctly the second one... I clearly dunno with which variables they could play with to achieve that and only that... | ||
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Luolis
Finland7103 Posts
On December 11 2015 19:42 saddaromma wrote: Dunno why people are so butthurt about rifle changes. They clearly were too good. Welcome SG and AUG meta. We Call of Duty now | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On December 11 2015 19:52 Luolis wrote: Welcome SG and AUG meta. We Call of Duty now You know that they are expensive right. Even winning a round doesn't warrant you enough money for a full buy. Continuing topic of rifle nerfs, now maybe we will see more strategic variety in the game. Smgs, shotguns might become solid buy choice rather than being situational anti-eco. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On December 11 2015 20:02 saddaromma wrote: You know that they are expensive right. Even winning a round doesn't warrant you enough money for a full buy. Continuing topic of rifle nerfs, now maybe we will see more strategic variety in the game. Smgs, shotguns might become solid buy choice rather than being situational anti-eco. I'd rather have them stay situational. That's where they belong. I still strongly feel that the core of cs is rifle and awp, and while I am completely fine with variety, it should be in specific instances. | ||
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Luolis
Finland7103 Posts
On December 11 2015 20:02 saddaromma wrote: You know that they are expensive right. Even winning a round doesn't warrant you enough money for a full buy. Continuing topic of rifle nerfs, now maybe we will see more strategic variety in the game. Smgs, shotguns might become solid buy choice rather than being situational anti-eco. Sure theyre expensive, but still theyre just objectively a better choice now. Also its only 200$ more expensive than m4. Not a huge deal. Just dumb to make AK and m4 bad and RNG based | ||
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Dantak
Czech Republic648 Posts
I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG. | ||
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saddaromma
1129 Posts
On December 11 2015 21:58 Dantak wrote: I think that every change that makes game more random is essentially promoting casual play over "skill oriented" people. I want to be responsible if I'm good or not and not be in a mercy of RNG. If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote: If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". There is so much wrong with this comment that I don't even know if I want to start a discussion on that. | ||
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zzdd
United States484 Posts
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote: If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". Except you don't get to choose where and how you engage in most situations. By that logic you should never buy a rifle because there are very few spots where you would have an advantage and you will have to get close range eventually. The direction the game is going means everyone should just buy a p90 and revolver every round as that covers every possible scenario and are the best weapons now. Aiming is dead. Long live run and gun. | ||
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kinsky
Germany368 Posts
On December 11 2015 15:12 Roggay wrote: To be honest the major issue is the rifle change. The R8 would have been nerfed no matter what but they don't seem willing to revert that god awful change to the rifles. Also it really annoys me when Valve and some people in the community argue that they need to collect more data before reverting something about the rifles. This is missing the point completely. The intention is absolutely fine : making tapping and bursting more viable. But the way it was implemented in this patch is beyond retarded and you don't need more data to tell that adding more rng to all aspect of shooting is terrible and a really lazy design decision that shows how little they know on how to bring balance changes. Guys like Slothsquadron could have done a much much better job at making tapping and bursting more viable without introducing so much randomness. ^ THIS! C´mon Valve, you can do better! There should be enough money through the sells of cases and skins (lol, good one) that you guys could hire 1 or 2 more balance guys. Dont hire people from Blizzard though. | ||
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Clonester
Germany2808 Posts
But CS lost alot of its fun for me. The massive running spray for pistols just gets me off. Not that I cant hit something standing and have to use Run&Gun, but you get these wired headshots now every pistolround. When someone stands and kills, okay, he just was better, but this i run, hammer my bullets in your direction and one will give you headshot is just annoying. I have hard times to stay calm during pistol rounds and i compeltly stopped to buy cevlar there. Its useless, you get headshoted or nothing anyway. Either because people stand and aim or people run and hope for the best. I would love to buy just a helm in the pistol round for 350$ The M4/AK nerf gets me off 2. I know it is not right but every time I die to these weapons I just think "damn RNGesus". Oh and yeah, more SGs and AUGs are used on the battleflied. Revolver isnt a problem for me, it was fun to use it these days (till the nerf), the very first day was super funny, as you could use hold right - tab left which then got fixed. But now the dmg got nerfed and you usually lose the battles against guns (like it should be) but I loved how strong the revolver was and I felt like I really learned how to play it. These things just get me off, I take some days of break from CS. I also think that I cant hold my rank at the moment, P90 is an answer, but not a solution for my problems. | ||
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kyllinghest
Norway1607 Posts
On December 12 2015 00:58 saddaromma wrote: If you buy an AK and find yourself spraying in close encounter, hoping for better RNG, it speaks you're not skilled player. You shouldn't be fighting at close range with this weapon. Same as not fighting long range with smg/shotgun. Valve is promoting smart/thoughtful play, rather than "hey I mastered AK/M4 and now I am Global Elite". If you dont wanna play Counter-Strike there are loads of other shooters. Counter-Strike have been one of the deepest and best shooters for more than a decade, and its largely because of extremely reliable core weapons with high skill ceilings and very little rng. | ||
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whatusername
Canada1181 Posts
On December 12 2015 02:30 kyllinghest wrote: If you dont wanna play Counter-Strike there are loads of other shooters. Counter-Strike have been one of the deepest and best shooters for more than a decade, and its largely because of extremely reliable core weapons with high skill ceilings and very little rng. in cs1.6 there were several spray patterns and which one u got was literally determined by RNG | ||
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