EPTGeneral Discussion - Page 90
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Please be advised: We will be closing this General thread in 24 hours. It will remain searchable. After that we will require new threads to discuss topics. Questions should go in the stickied Q&A thread, screenshots and PotG will go in the PotG sticky, QQ/Rage/Complaints should go in the QQ/Rage thread. If you want to talk about maps or strategies open a new thread. Any comments or concerns will be logged please forward them to ZeromuS. This new forum is still fluid so we will try this out. General TL rules will still apply to new threads. | ||
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smOOthMayDie
United States997 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 19 2015 04:53 Valiver wrote: The 100k+ viewers of the Heroes World Championship (not counting viewers using Blizzard's stream) would like a word with you. 100k? I am not saying this isn't true but the highest number i personally saw was like 70k and that was after hearthstone hosted the stream. (hearthstone had like over 150k viewers, maybe even more) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
A beta, mind you, that has only been out for 3 weeks and has already added content in the form of heroes. A beta that will continue for months to come. Surely, this is the final version of the game and it is destined to fail. (psst, that was what we call sarcasm) A game that literally isn't even in it's infancy because it hasn't even released yet cannot be criticized for not having something that it clearly will add. That's just really, really dumb. If you're going to put forward criticism, talk about mechanics or balance. If those are fine, then when they add more game modes before release then they will be fine too. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
The characters feel good, there isn't much to complain there (obviously little things can be adjusted, but nothing really major) The current game mode just lacks any form of impact, there is nothing memorable about any given overwatch game atm. I played a decent amount of it in the last few weeks, but i couldn't name one thing which was special. The pacing doesn't allow for it, you spawn, kill some stuff, die and respawn again in like 5 seconds. No narrative. It would already be way better if you HAD TO play both sides on each map. This way one match would actually have some form of impact. I also don't see how you can be so certain that there will be clearly other modes. So far all i have seen are excuses why popular fps modes aren't in the game. CTF doesn't work because of tracer? mhm... Why are there no custom mode lobbies? This game feels like it was made for consoles in the first place tbh... Why do i compare it to heroes? Because that was another beta phase which was a huge disappointment. Blizzard is just really bad at dealing with community feedback, which is a shame because it is required in the current gaming scene/esports scene. I can understand that people look at my posts and see only complaining (ok these little one liner posts were really stuoid, i agree), but only praising how fun the game looks isn't any better. There are issues and (imo) you can already see people losing interest because of it. 7k twitch viewers isn't anything overwatch should be happy about. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2709 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
The modes don't have to be complex to do this. They don't need custom lobbies to do this. All you need it to see if you can match 12 people, put them in a game together, and if it runs from beginning to end without it falling apart. That's a proper way to test. Then, you add more - big things like game modes, small things like lobbies and trophies. Anyone who works with developing new technologies knows this. How do I know they'll add more game modes? Because Blizzard, despite what you think, is not a stupid company. They created the biggest and most successful MMO and RTS of all time. Blizzard knows they're competing with other class based shooters like TF2 and Bloodborne. They're not going to release a game that only has a fraction of their competitors' content, they're going to shoot to have more. And if you honestly think they're bad at dealing with community feedback because they're not clinging to your every, pointless word, then the problem lies with you. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
Blizzard betas always feel more like marketing tools primarily. There aren't really any bugs or bigger issues, if the game would get released tomorrow nobody would complain about the technical side. And yes i think blizzard is bad with this kind of stuff, they clearly don't act at the necessary speed. The problem only gets bigger when you realize that this game will actually cost 40 bucks. (which in itself is maybe ok, but in the current scene it will have a hard time nonetheless) Just one thing, are you even in the beta right now? On November 19 2015 05:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Just make the flag disable all special abilities and you can only move at half speed (or slower the closer you get to your base or something). And enemies can't pick it up so it's a race to see who gets the flag to their side first. Tracer problem solved. There are a lot of ways to make a ctf mode work, the statement that they don't think so just makes me doubt their creativity... | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On November 19 2015 06:13 The_Red_Viper wrote: While all of this is somewhat true, i also think that the technical side is pretty much trivial at this point (for the most part) Blizzard betas always feel more like marketing tools primarily. There aren't really any bugs or bigger issues, if the game would get released tomorrow nobody would complain about the technical side. And yes i think blizzard is bad with this kind of stuff, they clearly don't act at the necessary speed. The problem only gets bigger when you realize that this game will actually cost 40 bucks. (which in itself is maybe ok, but in the current scene it will have a hard time nonetheless) Just one thing, are you even in the beta right now? I'm not in the beta. That has literally nothing to do with anything that I've said. "Technical side is pretty much trivial" is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard. Yes, Blizz is good and they make solid games. But if you've ever put any amount of code on a screen, you would know that bugs appear in places that you would never expect it. It would be irresponsible to put in more than necessary and complicate the QA process. Because that's what beta is, it's a QA process. "Don't act at the necessary speed". Are you literally fucking kidding me? The beta has been out for 22 days. The overall length of the beta is nearly 8 months. There is no reason whatsoever to make big sweeping changes or add anything major after people have been playing it for less than a month. And they did anyway by adding new heroes. It really boils down to you just being impatient and entitled. | ||
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Vaelone
Finland4400 Posts
Hoping for that beta weekend invite tomorrow. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 19 2015 06:22 Requizen wrote: I'm not in the beta. That has literally nothing to do with anything that I've said. "Technical side is pretty much trivial" is the most bullshit thing I've ever heard. Yes, Blizz is good and they make solid games. But if you've ever put any amount of code on a screen, you would know that bugs appear in places that you would never expect it. It would be irresponsible to put in more than necessary and complicate the QA process. Because that's what beta is, it's a QA process. "Don't act at the necessary speed". Are you literally fucking kidding me? The beta has been out for 22 days. The overall length of the beta is nearly 8 months. There is no reason whatsoever to make big sweeping changes or add anything major after people have been playing it for less than a month. And they did anyway by adding new heroes. It really boils down to you just being impatient and entitled. Yes i am impatient, because i saw their other beta phases. They promise a lot and in the end it was just that, a big promise at the start. "Trivial" as in there aren't really any issues atm. Blizzard betas always are in a state where nobody would complain when it was released in that state. I am not saying that there aren't any bugs, there are ALWAYS bugs in any software. Yes the beta is only up a short amount of time, but as i said before betas are mostly promotional these days. There was a ton of hype before people actually played the game, right now no big streamer even plays the game anymore. Not even a little bit. When i read reddit the only players who are still excited are the players who actually didn't play the game yet. But even then you can already tell that people don't care as much anymore. 6k viewers on twitch is laughable. There simply are a lot of questionable decisions already noticable. Note: this is blizzard we are talking about, not some no name studio. On November 19 2015 06:29 Plansix wrote: Personally I respect a designer that says “No, we are not going to do a mode that we are sure not will work,” rather than try to shoe horn it in with a bunch of exceptions. Just work with what they got and refine from there. Maybe create brand new game modes we have never seen before. As i said before, there are a lot of different things you could do. Some are kinda bad (like making heroes unavailable), but some others are pretty decent (not being able to use your skills while holding the flag) The fact is that ctf is a very popular fps mode and the overall pacing of the game would make it pretty awesome (when done right) Blizzard not wanting to include that because of some little issues seems just weird. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
There's still a ton of people hyped, but people aren't going to stay on a high for 8 months, especially when most of them don't have hopes of getting access any time soon. No one was going to scream "woohoo" while waiting around with no news. It's a little early to be calling anything dead before it even exists. Calm down. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 19 2015 06:32 The_Red_Viper wrote: As i said before, there are a lot of different things you could do. Some are kinda bad (like making heroes unavailable), but some others are pretty decent (not being able to use your skills while holding the flag) The fact is that ctf is a very popular fps mode and the overall pacing of the game would make it pretty awesome (when done right) Blizzard not wanting to include that because of some little issues seems just weird. I didn't say I didn't want them to include it. I said I respected their decision not to and I hoped they would try to make new modes for their game that they felt would fit it. | ||
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
And no obviously i didn't expect them to switch to overwatch, but playing it from time to time? Yes i thought that might be the case if they enjoy it enough. (mostly talking about variety streamers here, not pro players) I don't wanna use the ded game meme, but i don't think blizzard can be happy atm. Maybe that will change with the next bigger update, but it really has to be a good one if you ask me. But yeah whatever, i think everything was said, let's wait and see what happens. | ||
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FeyFey
Germany10114 Posts
On November 19 2015 06:46 Requizen wrote: There are plenty of big name streamers/Youtubers who still play. Streamers who are known for playing certain games went back to the ones they were known for, of course they did. I mean, you don't expect LoL/DotA/CS:GO/other esports pros to quit their main games and suddenly switch to beta full time, did you? There's still a ton of people hyped, but people aren't going to stay on a high for 8 months, especially when most of them don't have hopes of getting access any time soon. No one was going to scream "woohoo" while waiting around with no news. It's a little early to be calling anything dead before it even exists. Calm down. jumping on the new thing is a really streameresque thing to do. And since the big streamers got big by doing it I guess you can't blame them haha. But I found the streaming numbers always fairly high for a beta. Which is a good sign. No one will be able to copy hearthstone beta anyway. | ||
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kongoline
6318 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9420 Posts
On November 19 2015 03:10 Reaps wrote: You already made 6-7 posts in this thread that you're bored of the game and that the game needs more modes, your first post was after 2 days of getting into beta. An extra game mode wont really make much difference for you, probably prolong your playtime for a week at most before you get bored and complain the game need more content again. I think the game just isn't for you, there has been people playing it 12 hours a day since beta release and still cant get enough. This is my impression as well from his comment. I found his harsh comments kinda ridiculous when beta-testers in general are super satisfied about the game - despite there being no form of ranking (nor esport-scene) which typically is a major motivational factor This will be just like heroes, nobody will give a damn after release... The problem for Heroes was never diversity but rather just an extremely low skill-cap and in the end that's the major motivational factor of many games. If most people find that the game lack game-modes, I am sure that the developers can react to that eventually. But when you seem to be the only one thinking so, it's not an apparent issue. So I am gonna hold you up to that prediction 8-12 months from now on. (Which reminds me; I should be holding Khaldor up for his prediction on Heroes of the Storm's being a huge viewer succes https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/2kd578/do_you_think_this_game_will_have_a_competitive/cll4jav?context=3 Though to be fair I didn't fully commit to it, because I wasn't sure how many people would play the game. But ofc that was in October 2014, a few months later I became more convinced that the player numbers wouldn't be that high as it seemed apparent that the developers had some flaws in how they thought about game-design). I estimate around 6-8M copies sold within a month of release for OW and people will certainly care about it once it becomes accessible. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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The_Red_Viper
19533 Posts
On November 19 2015 07:49 Hider wrote: This is my impression as well from his comment. I found his harsh comments kinda ridiculous when beta-testers in general are super satisfied about the game - despite there being no form of ranking (nor esport-scene) which typically is a major motivational factor The problem for Heroes was never diversity but rather just an extremely low skill-cap and in the end that's the major motivational factor of many games. If most people find that the game lack game-modes, I am sure that the developers can react to that eventually. But when you seem to be the only one thinking so, it's not an apparent issue. So I am gonna hold you up to that prediction 8-12 months from now on. (Which reminds me; I should be holding Khaldor up for his prediction on Heroes of the Storm's being a huge viewer succes https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/2kd578/do_you_think_this_game_will_have_a_competitive/cll4jav?context=3 Though to be fair I didn't fully commit to it, because I wasn't sure how many people would play the game. But ofc that was in October 2014, a few months later I became more convinced that the player numbers wouldn't be that high as it seemed apparent that the developers had some flaws in how they thought about game-design). I estimate around 6-8M copies sold within a month of release for OW and people will certainly care about it once it becomes accessible. More game modes wouldn't even be that big of a deal if the current one would be any good. But it isn't. At least the implementation of it is horrible. I had countless of games which ended below 5 minutes, that isn't satisfying at all. If you play on a higher level that probably isn't a real issue, but the majority of people will just play some solo queue games and there it won't really change. There is no buildup, there is no climax, there is no narrative to any match. I think that is a huge problem. (not only for esports, but also for normal solo queue games) I compared it to heroes because there blizzard also neglects interesting maps (here: game modes) even though that is one of the main "selling points" for heroes over other mobas. Also just in general to show blizzard's knowledge of what the community really wants. The skill cap might not be a problem in overwatch (even though i think the turret characters need to change, not because you cannot deal with them, but they are the most unfun part of the game right now concerning game mechanics) but the impact of your skill is not there atm. In theory the "play of the game" feature would be some form of narrative, but most of the time it doesn't really work well either. I see the potential (the heroes and their unique playstyles, all really smooth) but right now it isn't anywhere near it. That could change, but i don't have much hope in blizzard right now, not after all the other disappointments in the last few months. On November 19 2015 07:54 Plansix wrote: Apparently its already dead game because of twitch numbers or something. Its almost like the game is just fun. It's nice that you know the ded game meme, but i didn't even say it is dead or anything. It's just below the level it should be at this point, for multiple reasons. Will it be a total failure? No probably not. But they clearly want this to be the next big thing, that doesn't really work out for them atm. It's funny that you all neglect the twitch numbers when it is clear that it's a good indication a lot of the times. | ||
Jer99
Canada8159 Posts
On November 19 2015 04:30 salle wrote: It has two game modes. Point Capture and Payload does it count for a third if you combine the two | ||
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