EPTWarCraft II (free download) tournament - $2000 - Page 2
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Luoson
New Zealand153 Posts
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4332 Posts
On July 18 2014 17:07 Luoson wrote: I would rank it nearly at the same level as starcraft 1 for skill tricks and knowledge Not really because WarII only has one viable race whilst SC1 has three viable races. Hope your tournament goes well, surprised someone put up so much money for WarII. | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1970 Posts
I would rank it nearly at the same level as starcraft 1 for skill tricks and knowledge there is literally thousands of tricks to be learned, no one can master them all. No offense but i doubt that. BW has much more variability in terms of strats, there are more viable units, the micro is more responsive and there are 3 factions with a good balance. You still need a lot of skill to be good at wc2. Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft? Even with years of hardcore training foreigners never were able to compete with the korean pros. | ||
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Agh
United States972 Posts
There are no rallies and next to no collision detection. (to get around trees would take multiple clicks) If you want to play near top level you need to know the maps (mainly just GoW) in and out. That is, you need to know all 8 spawns the following: -how to defend and execute (tower [lesser extent, rax] rushes (and how counter or properly respond) -building placement in each location memorized (necessary for the above) -Wood harvesting pattern (necessary for the above) -Wall/tree hopping and backdooring locations Could go on and write a book but that is a pretty good gist. I would advise looking up some guides on how to macro properly. A single peon (especially early on) that should be on gold rather than wood or vice versa will/can easily cost you the game. efficiency is everything. Production timing and building location matter. No rallies so you need to be able to minimize apm required to gather and select units you have produced. knowing priorities for your apm can be difficult to grasp for newer players. (A supply block in starcraft can be game ending, where as war2 not as much. (you're going to want to start an altar before a farm, etc) Never getting caught with your pants down. Constant scouting so you can always be lusted in an engagement. | ||
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Luoson
New Zealand153 Posts
What people have got to realise about warcraft 2 tho, the strategies don't lie with the race, they lay with the build orders. Every strategy can be countered, everyone plays one race which makes it the most perfectly balanced strategy game to exist. There are imbalances in it and some bugs, but they actually work in the games favour and enhance it, i believe sc1 had similar bugs and things that enhanced the game. The knowledge relates to the maps since walling in ur base is so important there are chops, hops (makin a building then blocking its pop out exit so the unit pops further out, behind wallins ) For warcraft 2, having 1 viable race made the game better. It wouldn't work for other strategy games but i believe its a postive for wc2. Warcraft 2 definitely is skillful it just obviously never reached that level starcraft 1 did but if it got the same focus as sc1 did, tv channels, massive money tournaments etc then it would be pretty similar skill wise. Basically even the best warcraft 2 player ever, wasn't even close to competing at the games full skill potential. There is a 200 unit limit per player right? I have played this game on and off for 8 years outa the 19 its been out, i have never seen anyone reach that 200 unit limit in a normal game. Ever. So obviously there is potential there for a better player to sc1 apm pros to max out the game even further. For any newbies who are keen to get into wc1, I suggest joining a 'old garden of war' on even faster setting, and ask to watch. Select human as that indicates you are a watcher. Orc is playing, and random is not ready. You can get booted for being an unknown and selecting orc. Watch and learn then have ago yourself when you see how the game is played. Hope to see some of you there | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1970 Posts
On July 21 2014 15:25 Luoson wrote: Ya ok the games are quite different but i disagree with micro responsiveness, wc2 unit control is very responsive, i doubt there is any difference there between wc2 and sc1. I played both wc2 (on medium level) and bw on above average level for a while and units are more responsive in bw. For warcraft 2, having 1 viable race made the game better. It wouldn't work for other strategy games but i believe its a postive for wc2. I do not understand that logic. BW would be aweful with just one race viable. | ||
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War2Combat
United States276 Posts
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
On July 19 2014 20:44 Luoson wrote: Id say around 6 months to compete with average 'good' players, but the really good players, it would take years to be a challenge for them. Your question is the same with starcraft really, Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft? Extremely doubtful. Rain won OSL and got RO4 in GSL at the same time after about 6 months of practice. | ||
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Probemicro
3708 Posts
On July 22 2014 10:25 ZAiNs wrote: Rain won OSL and got RO4 in GSL at the same time after about 6 months of practice. thats sc2 not scbw. sc2 is the only exception since the simpler game mechanics makes its super easy for former bw pros to adapt to quickly. (adapt to, not win) scbw is a different ball game and u will know it if u watch and play it well enough. so wc2...only 1 viable race? unit control worse than bw? lol | ||
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Rostam
United States2552 Posts
On July 21 2014 15:25 Luoson wrote: everyone plays one race which makes it the most perfectly balanced strategy game to exist. That is some seriously twisted logic. Best of luck with the tournament, it's always good to see some activity in some different RTS communities than starcraft. | ||
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nikj
Canada669 Posts
Spent many a night over at my best friends house playing epic LAN games of WC2. Some times even his Dad would join in.  We also played on Kali and later the B.net edition, was good times. Will stay tuned good luck! | ||
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Luoson
New Zealand153 Posts
On July 22 2014 12:09 Rostam wrote: That is some seriously twisted logic. Best of luck with the tournament, it's always good to see some activity in some different RTS communities than starcraft. How is that twisted logic? Obviously if there is only 1 race then there is no unit imbalance between the races, everyone has the same tools available to them. When you add other races in it becomes impossible to perfectly balance.. Look at starcraft 2, been out for nearly 5 years or so and balance patches still come out. To many variables to balance perfectly. Im strictly talking about balance here not interest level or variety or anything like that. Think like car racing, what do you think will be more balanced, 1 nissan 1 subaru 1 ford, or all 3 people racing the same ford. This may not necessarily make it more fun but it does make it more balanced. Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches. The point im trying make here is that having different races doesnt make the game better, the difference is in the strategies which has plenty of variety with the one race to make it a solid game. Also to the guy trying argue with unit responsiveness, We have a program that sets it to almost lan latency, there is no issues with responsiveness, i click and the unit moves almost instantly and if you had responsiveness issues then it's your computer. Ive played thousands of games and never considered this an issue. Also one aspect is wc2 is the last pure rts, everything is manual. APM is more important. You cannot cue up 5 workers like in sc1, if you are slow to make that 2nd worker after your first is completed then your behind in production. This really does open up the gaps between noobs and pros even further. Having no cues and no rally points makes the game more skillful, less automation more needing quick apm and fast reacting. Which i found a huge issue in sc2, because ever decent player had the same economy there wasn't really much in the way to get ahead because of the automation. Please keep in mind im not trying agure what game is better, because clearly starcraft won in the popularity contest, but warcraft 2 is almost a 20 year old game and still has an active player base, that can only give credit to it being a good strategy game. Hope some of you will come along and see how it's played on the skilled level. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
Does really nobody use humans at all? I mean I know that bloodlust was very strong and deathknights pretty much kicked ass, but iirc Polymorph and blizzard had their uses also, and Rangers dealt more damage than berserkers, and couldn't paladins like heal or whatever? | ||
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Boonbag
France3318 Posts
ahhh brings back old memories | ||
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War2Combat
United States276 Posts
On July 22 2014 23:33 TheFish7 wrote: I would play but I feel like I'd just get in the way. Last time I played multiplayer war2 I was on a 56k modem. Does really nobody use humans at all? I mean I know that bloodlust was very strong and deathknights pretty much kicked ass, but iirc Polymorph and blizzard had their uses also, and Rangers dealt more damage than berserkers, and couldn't paladins like heal or whatever? Please join with us! All players of any skill level are encouraged to join in! The Festival has always been about the reunion of the players!! | ||
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KalWarkov
Germany4126 Posts
never played wc2, was good in wc3 and am so in sc2 (relatively ofc). wonder if i should dl :O | ||
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TaShadan
Germany1970 Posts
Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches. The last balance patch was around 2001 or 2002. The other patches were cosmetic stuff and bug fixes. (Patchlog Thread) To be honest your whole post is a wc2 fanboy post and offensive against any other rts out there. This is one of the reasons i do not like the wc2 community beside from being bm towards beginners. Do not get me wrong i love wc2 but you are talking every other rts down which is kinda lame. | ||
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War2Combat
United States276 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17257 Posts
On July 24 2014 05:41 War2Combat wrote: Well you have to admit though Warcraft 2 is better than any other RTS ever made.... That's debatable... | ||
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GoShox
United States1837 Posts
On July 24 2014 05:41 War2Combat wrote: Well you have to admit though Warcraft 2 is better than any other RTS ever made.... Is this you? | ||
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