There's a free version of War2 on that site, and somebody is crazy enough to be currently pledging $2000 to the winner of a tournament in that game. The community has some real experience, but only about 200 players total, so if there are any top tier BW players that want to collect a big prize, I recommend checking this out.
This is the sixth annual tournament of this kind, and the tourney host has paid out the prize every previous time, but it's never been so large before, so I dunno... but I'm guessing he comes through... It's held the weekend of July 26-27.
I think anyone who's a top tier BW player would have a chance of winning it if they practiced. I don't mean just average good players, but if you know anyone who's a real stud at BW, you should let them know about this. There's only two real contenders playing in War2 these days, they're called Viruz and Swift, and I'd like to see someone come in and challenge them for this. Please share this with anyone who's got a high grade on Iccup or who was a BW contender in the past, because literally, War2 is so old and has so few players that a) we want new blood and b) someone could literally sweep in and win this thing.
Um wtf is up with those user names??? Most racist user base I have seen lol. Just about every user signed up has a troll or racial slur in their name lol wtf. Is this all legit?
On July 12 2014 14:00 LingBlingBling wrote: Um wtf is up with those user names??? Most racist user base I have seen lol. Just about every user signed up has a troll or racial slur in their name lol wtf. Is this all legit?
Great stuff in general. I dislike the community attitude though. Lots of BM especially vs beginners. And playing Orc only? No thx. I wish everyone gl and hf though
On July 12 2014 15:15 TaShadan wrote: Great stuff in general. I dislike the community attitude though. Lots of BM especially vs beginners. And playing Orc only? No thx. I wish everyone gl and hf though
This is being worked on at the moment. They are drafting the updated server rules:
1. Ignorance of the rules is not an excuse for violating them.
2. The account owner is responsible for any actions committed by an account, regardless of who committed the action under this account. Having your password stolen could be a reason to avoid the sanctions once for known persons who can prove his/her account ownership.
3. Cheating and server-hacking attempts are prohibited. Penalties: for the 1st time and repeated offenses: from a temporary ban to a permanent ban depending on the kind of cheating/hacking.
4. If someone requests a screenshot, one must be provided as soon as the game ends. Details about screenshots: http://server.war2.ru/about/screenshot-policy/ Penalties: warning for the 1st time, 1 week ban for repeating the offense once, permanent ban for repeated violation.
5. Offensive language of a religious, racial, or sexual nature are prohibited. Penalties: warning for the 1st time, 1 week ban for repeating the offense once, permanent ban for repeated violation.
6. To offend the dignity of others by using swear words, put-downs, and other statements against them, in any language, is prohibited, except for friendly trash talk. This includes chat messages, the user name and game names, personal communications, mail, etc. This includes "disguised swear words" - with the substitution of letters, etc., for offensive purposes. The purpose of this rule is to protect new and casual players from being offended. Penalties: warning for the first time, 1 day ban for second offense, 1 week ban for the third offense, permanent ban for the fourth offense.
7. Inciting server users to breach the server rules is prohibited. Penalties: warning for the 1st time, 1 week ban for repeating, permanent ban for more repeating.
8. Framing, intentional defaming or baseless accusations against server users is prohibited. Penalties: warning for the 1st time, 1 week ban for repeating, permanent ban for more repeating.
9. Using similar or same nicks of other players with the intent of impersonating them is prohibited. Penalties: warning for the 1-st time, deleting the similar accounts for repeating, 1 week ban for repeating, permanent ban for more repeating.
10. Using clan tags or imitation of clan tags in usernames is prohibited for non clan members. Penalties: warning for the 1st time, deleting the similar accounts for repeating, 1 week ban for repeating, permanent ban for more repeating.
11. Spam is prohibited. Penalties: for the 1st time and repeated: from warning to a permanent ban depending on the kind of spamming.
The penalties provided for these Rules violation: - Warning - A temporary ban - Delete an account - Permanent ban Penalties apply to all accounts of the violating person. Penalties can be amplified in the case of repeated violation. Repeated violation before the ban-time expires (if the offender was able to circumvent the ban) may also amplify the penalty.
Penalties could also be reduced after remorse at the discretion of server administrators.
On July 12 2014 15:15 TaShadan wrote: Great stuff in general. I dislike the community attitude though. Lots of BM especially vs beginners. And playing Orc only? No thx. I wish everyone gl and hf though
Human doesn't have bloodlust bro
also haste is a much more useful and accessible spell than invis
On July 12 2014 15:15 TaShadan wrote: Great stuff in general. I dislike the community attitude though. Lots of BM especially vs beginners. And playing Orc only? No thx. I wish everyone gl and hf though
Human doesn't have bloodlust bro
also haste is a much more useful and accessible spell than invis
Holy shit this is awesome! I had no idea there was still an active Warcraft 2 community, let alone tournaments! Wish I had time get involved in this. I only ever played a few multiplayer games of War2 in my life, but this was one of the best games of my childhood.
Does anyone know whether there will be any sort of streaming / VODs of the event?
From What I remember from playing, it doesn't seem like a particularly good game to have a 2000$ prize for, but I guess there's still some kinda reasonably skillish things involved.
Warcraft 2 is a hugely skillful game Xapti, there isnt much skill at the bottom newbie level though and it can look like random chaos, which you most likely the level you played at based by your comment. It needs to be played at a high standard for skill to be shown. Even starcraft would look totally skilless played by people with less then 100 games each.
I would rank it nearly at the same level as starcraft 1 for skill tricks and knowledge there is literally thousands of tricks to be learned, no one can master them all.
Id say around 6 months to compete with average 'good' players, but the really good players, it would take years to be a challenge for them. Your question is the same with starcraft really, Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft? Extremely doubtful.
I would rank it nearly at the same level as starcraft 1 for skill tricks and knowledge
Not really because WarII only has one viable race whilst SC1 has three viable races. Hope your tournament goes well, surprised someone put up so much money for WarII.
I would rank it nearly at the same level as starcraft 1 for skill tricks and knowledge there is literally thousands of tricks to be learned, no one can master them all.
No offense but i doubt that. BW has much more variability in terms of strats, there are more viable units, the micro is more responsive and there are 3 factions with a good balance. You still need a lot of skill to be good at wc2.
Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft?
Even with years of hardcore training foreigners never were able to compete with the korean pros.
Just to add to the discussion for the people who haven't played, war2 is a much faster game than broodwar.
There are no rallies and next to no collision detection. (to get around trees would take multiple clicks) If you want to play near top level you need to know the maps (mainly just GoW) in and out. That is, you need to know all 8 spawns the following: -how to defend and execute (tower [lesser extent, rax] rushes (and how counter or properly respond) -building placement in each location memorized (necessary for the above) -Wood harvesting pattern (necessary for the above) -Wall/tree hopping and backdooring locations
Could go on and write a book but that is a pretty good gist. I would advise looking up some guides on how to macro properly. A single peon (especially early on) that should be on gold rather than wood or vice versa will/can easily cost you the game. efficiency is everything.
Production timing and building location matter. No rallies so you need to be able to minimize apm required to gather and select units you have produced.
knowing priorities for your apm can be difficult to grasp for newer players. (A supply block in starcraft can be game ending, where as war2 not as much. (you're going to want to start an altar before a farm, etc) Never getting caught with your pants down. Constant scouting so you can always be lusted in an engagement.
Ya ok the games are quite different but i disagree with micro responsiveness, wc2 unit control is very responsive, i doubt there is any difference there between wc2 and sc1.
What people have got to realise about warcraft 2 tho, the strategies don't lie with the race, they lay with the build orders. Every strategy can be countered, everyone plays one race which makes it the most perfectly balanced strategy game to exist. There are imbalances in it and some bugs, but they actually work in the games favour and enhance it, i believe sc1 had similar bugs and things that enhanced the game. The knowledge relates to the maps since walling in ur base is so important there are chops, hops (makin a building then blocking its pop out exit so the unit pops further out, behind wallins )
For warcraft 2, having 1 viable race made the game better. It wouldn't work for other strategy games but i believe its a postive for wc2.
Warcraft 2 definitely is skillful it just obviously never reached that level starcraft 1 did but if it got the same focus as sc1 did, tv channels, massive money tournaments etc then it would be pretty similar skill wise. Basically even the best warcraft 2 player ever, wasn't even close to competing at the games full skill potential.
There is a 200 unit limit per player right? I have played this game on and off for 8 years outa the 19 its been out, i have never seen anyone reach that 200 unit limit in a normal game. Ever. So obviously there is potential there for a better player to sc1 apm pros to max out the game even further.
For any newbies who are keen to get into wc1, I suggest joining a 'old garden of war' on even faster setting, and ask to watch. Select human as that indicates you are a watcher. Orc is playing, and random is not ready. You can get booted for being an unknown and selecting orc. Watch and learn then have ago yourself when you see how the game is played.
On July 21 2014 15:25 Luoson wrote: Ya ok the games are quite different but i disagree with micro responsiveness, wc2 unit control is very responsive, i doubt there is any difference there between wc2 and sc1.
I played both wc2 (on medium level) and bw on above average level for a while and units are more responsive in bw.
For warcraft 2, having 1 viable race made the game better. It wouldn't work for other strategy games but i believe its a postive for wc2.
I do not understand that logic. BW would be aweful with just one race viable.
On July 19 2014 20:44 Luoson wrote: Id say around 6 months to compete with average 'good' players, but the really good players, it would take years to be a challenge for them. Your question is the same with starcraft really, Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft? Extremely doubtful.
Rain won OSL and got RO4 in GSL at the same time after about 6 months of practice.
On July 19 2014 20:44 Luoson wrote: Id say around 6 months to compete with average 'good' players, but the really good players, it would take years to be a challenge for them. Your question is the same with starcraft really, Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft? Extremely doubtful.
Rain won OSL and got RO4 in GSL at the same time after about 6 months of practice.
thats sc2 not scbw. sc2 is the only exception since the simpler game mechanics makes its super easy for former bw pros to adapt to quickly. (adapt to, not win) scbw is a different ball game and u will know it if u watch and play it well enough.
so wc2...only 1 viable race? unit control worse than bw? lol
Spent many a night over at my best friends house playing epic LAN games of WC2. Some times even his Dad would join in. We also played on Kali and later the B.net edition, was good times.
On July 21 2014 15:25 Luoson wrote: everyone plays one race which makes it the most perfectly balanced strategy game to exist.
That is some seriously twisted logic.
Best of luck with the tournament, it's always good to see some activity in some different RTS communities than starcraft.
How is that twisted logic? Obviously if there is only 1 race then there is no unit imbalance between the races, everyone has the same tools available to them. When you add other races in it becomes impossible to perfectly balance.. Look at starcraft 2, been out for nearly 5 years or so and balance patches still come out. To many variables to balance perfectly. Im strictly talking about balance here not interest level or variety or anything like that. Think like car racing, what do you think will be more balanced, 1 nissan 1 subaru 1 ford, or all 3 people racing the same ford. This may not necessarily make it more fun but it does make it more balanced. Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches.
The point im trying make here is that having different races doesnt make the game better, the difference is in the strategies which has plenty of variety with the one race to make it a solid game.
Also to the guy trying argue with unit responsiveness, We have a program that sets it to almost lan latency, there is no issues with responsiveness, i click and the unit moves almost instantly and if you had responsiveness issues then it's your computer. Ive played thousands of games and never considered this an issue.
Also one aspect is wc2 is the last pure rts, everything is manual. APM is more important. You cannot cue up 5 workers like in sc1, if you are slow to make that 2nd worker after your first is completed then your behind in production. This really does open up the gaps between noobs and pros even further. Having no cues and no rally points makes the game more skillful, less automation more needing quick apm and fast reacting. Which i found a huge issue in sc2, because ever decent player had the same economy there wasn't really much in the way to get ahead because of the automation.
Please keep in mind im not trying agure what game is better, because clearly starcraft won in the popularity contest, but warcraft 2 is almost a 20 year old game and still has an active player base, that can only give credit to it being a good strategy game.
Hope some of you will come along and see how it's played on the skilled level.
I would play but I feel like I'd just get in the way. Last time I played multiplayer war2 I was on a 56k modem.
Does really nobody use humans at all? I mean I know that bloodlust was very strong and deathknights pretty much kicked ass, but iirc Polymorph and blizzard had their uses also, and Rangers dealt more damage than berserkers, and couldn't paladins like heal or whatever?
On July 22 2014 23:33 TheFish7 wrote: I would play but I feel like I'd just get in the way. Last time I played multiplayer war2 I was on a 56k modem.
Does really nobody use humans at all? I mean I know that bloodlust was very strong and deathknights pretty much kicked ass, but iirc Polymorph and blizzard had their uses also, and Rangers dealt more damage than berserkers, and couldn't paladins like heal or whatever?
Please join with us! All players of any skill level are encouraged to join in! The Festival has always been about the reunion of the players!!
Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches.
The last balance patch was around 2001 or 2002. The other patches were cosmetic stuff and bug fixes. (Patchlog Thread) To be honest your whole post is a wc2 fanboy post and offensive against any other rts out there. This is one of the reasons i do not like the wc2 community beside from being bm towards beginners. Do not get me wrong i love wc2 but you are talking every other rts down which is kinda lame.
On July 21 2014 15:25 Luoson wrote: everyone plays one race which makes it the most perfectly balanced strategy game to exist.
That is some seriously twisted logic.
Best of luck with the tournament, it's always good to see some activity in some different RTS communities than starcraft.
How is that twisted logic? Obviously if there is only 1 race then there is no unit imbalance between the races, everyone has the same tools available to them. When you add other races in it becomes impossible to perfectly balance.. Look at starcraft 2, been out for nearly 5 years or so and balance patches still come out. To many variables to balance perfectly. Im strictly talking about balance here not interest level or variety or anything like that. Think like car racing, what do you think will be more balanced, 1 nissan 1 subaru 1 ford, or all 3 people racing the same ford. This may not necessarily make it more fun but it does make it more balanced. Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches.
The point im trying make here is that having different races doesnt make the game better, the difference is in the strategies which has plenty of variety with the one race to make it a solid game.
Also to the guy trying argue with unit responsiveness, We have a program that sets it to almost lan latency, there is no issues with responsiveness, i click and the unit moves almost instantly and if you had responsiveness issues then it's your computer. Ive played thousands of games and never considered this an issue.
Also one aspect is wc2 is the last pure rts, everything is manual. APM is more important. You cannot cue up 5 workers like in sc1, if you are slow to make that 2nd worker after your first is completed then your behind in production. This really does open up the gaps between noobs and pros even further. Having no cues and no rally points makes the game more skillful, less automation more needing quick apm and fast reacting. Which i found a huge issue in sc2, because ever decent player had the same economy there wasn't really much in the way to get ahead because of the automation.
Please keep in mind im not trying agure what game is better, because clearly starcraft won in the popularity contest, but warcraft 2 is almost a 20 year old game and still has an active player base, that can only give credit to it being a good strategy game.
Hope some of you will come along and see how it's played on the skilled level.
Umm theres 1 race in War2 because Humans suck compared to Orcs? If anything that shows true imbalance just because 1 race is completely unviable in comparison to the other
the guys that play the 16 yo game hating on the guys that play the 20 yo game and vice versa? ridiculous bullshit i say! As small scenes, where an old Blizz RTS title is still played, we should rather stick together than hate ourselves, i don't really get it. Is it really about finding out which is the best game ever? I don't think that question needs or can be answered, as the answer is always subjective. What can be asserted is, that both player bases share a very similar passion and face similar problems. Mobilization, Monetization, Advertisement. What should happen ideally is, that we at least cross promote events and cooperate. Guys who like WC2 are quite likely to like BW too, it's almost a no-brainer. But instead i read a lot of "objective "arguments" here, to claim why title x is better than y. Do you think you achieve anything but satisfy your own egoism by doing that? Nobody gives a shit what we think the best game is in the days of LoL and Hearthstone, or whatever the stuff is the youth plays today. We can't afford to be ignorant if we want to give our scenes a way to at least remain the way they are, or even improve. To those complaining about BM on the war2combat server: have you played Iccup recently? We should be happy there are still more people out there sticking to their guns and giving an awesome and complex old RTS title action and tournaments ahppening beyond what could ever be expected. I played some games on the russian server for fun coz i used to love War2 and people are incredibly skilled. So gogo Warcraft, much love from me <3
Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches.
The last balance patch was around 2001 or 2002. The other patches were cosmetic stuff and bug fixes. (Patchlog Thread) To be honest your whole post is a wc2 fanboy post and offensive against any other rts out there. This is one of the reasons i do not like the wc2 community beside from being bm towards beginners. Do not get me wrong i love wc2 but you are talking every other rts down which is kinda lame.
Yet your first post was this one
On July 21 2014 01:02 TaShadan wrote:
No offense but i doubt that. BW has much more variability in terms of strats, there are more viable units, the micro is more responsive and there are 3 factions with a good balance. You still need a lot of skill to be good at wc2.
Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft?
Even with years of hardcore training foreigners never were able to compete with the korean pros.
This post and your last one screams starcraft fanboy to me, not the other way around. This is a thread about warcraft 2 so of course im going to talk positively about the game, as im trying to get players to give it a try. It's you that has come in trying to knock it down that it doesnt even come close to comparing to starcraft. I am not sure how you think i am talking every other rts down when all i have tried to do is show people the positive aspects of warcraft. There has been 0 put downs on other rts, infact i acknowledge that starcraft is a really good and solid rts i never once said it wasnt. So please make sure your comments are accurate and represent what was actually said.
On July 21 2014 15:25 Luoson wrote: everyone plays one race which makes it the most perfectly balanced strategy game to exist.
That is some seriously twisted logic.
Best of luck with the tournament, it's always good to see some activity in some different RTS communities than starcraft.
How is that twisted logic? Obviously if there is only 1 race then there is no unit imbalance between the races, everyone has the same tools available to them. When you add other races in it becomes impossible to perfectly balance.. Look at starcraft 2, been out for nearly 5 years or so and balance patches still come out. To many variables to balance perfectly. Im strictly talking about balance here not interest level or variety or anything like that. Think like car racing, what do you think will be more balanced, 1 nissan 1 subaru 1 ford, or all 3 people racing the same ford. This may not necessarily make it more fun but it does make it more balanced. Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches.
The point im trying make here is that having different races doesnt make the game better, the difference is in the strategies which has plenty of variety with the one race to make it a solid game.
Also to the guy trying argue with unit responsiveness, We have a program that sets it to almost lan latency, there is no issues with responsiveness, i click and the unit moves almost instantly and if you had responsiveness issues then it's your computer. Ive played thousands of games and never considered this an issue.
Also one aspect is wc2 is the last pure rts, everything is manual. APM is more important. You cannot cue up 5 workers like in sc1, if you are slow to make that 2nd worker after your first is completed then your behind in production. This really does open up the gaps between noobs and pros even further. Having no cues and no rally points makes the game more skillful, less automation more needing quick apm and fast reacting. Which i found a huge issue in sc2, because ever decent player had the same economy there wasn't really much in the way to get ahead because of the automation.
Please keep in mind im not trying agure what game is better, because clearly starcraft won in the popularity contest, but warcraft 2 is almost a 20 year old game and still has an active player base, that can only give credit to it being a good strategy game.
Hope some of you will come along and see how it's played on the skilled level.
Umm theres 1 race in War2 because Humans suck compared to Orcs? If anything that shows true imbalance just because 1 race is completely unviable in comparison to the other
I see your point and yes they are imbalanced, but it's not what warcraft 2 has become. Warcraft 2 has evolved to be orc vs orc, which is balanced. Bloodlust is the spell that is overpowered against humans, but bloodlust has enhanced the game with it's imbalance and added many interesting aspects.
Warcraft 2!!!! wewt! ive watched prob all the videos you guys put up on youtube! Glad the festival is still happening! and yea unless youve played warcraft 2 at the top level or at least watched the top level you might be underestimating how hard war2 is, and how much skill comes into play. This was my first rts! I miss those days...
hmmm, if its undisputable that orc is better than humans which results in orc vs orc mirrors, thats all great, but why dont you guys play human vs human too then? It makes sense noone would want to play human vs orc if its so imbalanced, but this would provide a second balanced matchup to the game and for variation sake, there could be a tournament with human vs human only and since nobodys plays human it would take time to master them till orc skill levels. You have a whole other half of game unplayed there, but choose to play orc vs orc only, why? Im just wondering is all, i assume from posts here noone plays human at all, is that the case?
On July 24 2014 17:45 iknowFiRE wrote: hmmm, if its undisputable that orc is better than humans which results in orc vs orc mirrors, thats all great, but why dont you guys play human vs human too then? It makes sense noone would want to play human vs orc if its so imbalanced, but this would provide a second balanced matchup to the game and for variation sake, there could be a tournament with human vs human only and since nobodys plays human it would take time to master them till orc skill levels. You have a whole other half of game unplayed there, but choose to play orc vs orc only, why? Im just wondering is all, i assume from posts here noone plays human at all, is that the case?
it's like asking why nobody plays bio vs bio in TvT starcraft
Arguing war2 is more "manual" because it requires "higher apm" due to having no rally points or unit queues is a void argument.I could argue that since dune 2 allows you to select only one unit at a time whilst war2 allows 9 units to be selected means dune 2 is even more skilled?
On July 24 2014 19:23 upro)wraith wrote: it's like asking why nobody plays bio vs bio in TvT starcraft
I dont think thats an adequate comparison, bio is not a faction, its only half of terran tech tree and it is entirely unrealistic for players to adhere to some ingame made up rule to use bio only, you use entire tech tree and humans are a faction not half of orc tech tree u dont use because it sucks. And you give such a poor comparison infact, I mean if sc2 protoss beats sc1 protoss completely one sided (orc vs human) and then you only play sc2 toss vs sc2 toss (orc vs orc) and neglect entire other game u have right there, sc1 toss vs sc1 toss (human vs human). Dont even answer, that did happen, everyone abandoned sc1 when 2 came, but they are actualy 2 diffrent games and my point is, human vs human is part of the same game and as balanced as orc vs orc, yet its abandoned?
Also for instance company of heroes 1, a pretty good rts i might add, ironicaly has it backwards in that sense, there games are always axis vs allies, and each of those have 2 factions, so theres 8 possible matchups or in vanilla coh1 just 2 before expansion came. So not only theres no mirrors, there not even matchups against other army, which developers made suposedly for historic feeling or whatever. Well guess what, there was a mod to allow such mirror matches to happen upping the total matchup count to 16, but community was so against it that nobody ever played it, not even tried mind u. But in wc2 its only orc mirror, how diffrent yet how similar we are, its mind blowing
Honestly, if communities can do that at a whim Im really surprised nobody ever thought of banning tvt zvz and pvp in sc2 because they infact hold back the balance or make game severely boring. DavidKim has always said he wont nerf photon overcharge cause pvp or buff tanks because of tvt, so are you telling me all it takes is to not play these? But clearly there are double standards in such things or it would happen a long time ago. Like i said, i certainly understand if orc vs human is terribly imbalanced to make it pointless from competitive standpoint, but mirrors cant be. Add to that that sc has 9 possible matchups for a player to play, which wc2 has 4, but only 1 is played, orc vs orc. Im pretty sure human vs human is perfectly balanced aswell, so 2 matchups wouldnt be that bad to have, no?
Pointless debate is pointless. Warcraft 2 is an amazing game, stacraft is an amazing game. I have amazing memories from both these games and both are extremely fast-paced.
As for the balance yes human is almost unplayable because you would need 2000 apm to micro paladin's heals perfectly, and even then it seems bloodlust is still stronger. As has been said it doesn't really matter because everyone plays orc so there is perfect balance but obviously less diversity.
People keep telling something vs something debate is pointless, then discussing the differences between them. If you can compare differences, isn't something by definition better or worse in some aspect?
Obviously, if somebody is like ' X > Y, Y can go die in hell, everybody switch to X', he's an idiot. But saying that one is the more difficult (skillful) competitive game is a discussion with an answer, as long as it's not very close and subjective.
I personally doubt wc2 is harder than sc:bw if we take into account all the aspects, but it's possible that as such an old game in some ways is, so I'll probably tune in to watch it to see some of that, because that makes it uniquely interesting to watch compared to newschool games.
Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches.
The last balance patch was around 2001 or 2002. The other patches were cosmetic stuff and bug fixes. (Patchlog Thread) To be honest your whole post is a wc2 fanboy post and offensive against any other rts out there. This is one of the reasons i do not like the wc2 community beside from being bm towards beginners. Do not get me wrong i love wc2 but you are talking every other rts down which is kinda lame.
No offense but i doubt that. BW has much more variability in terms of strats, there are more viable units, the micro is more responsive and there are 3 factions with a good balance. You still need a lot of skill to be good at wc2.
Could a good rts player compete with bisu after 6 months of starcraft?
Even with years of hardcore training foreigners never were able to compete with the korean pros.
This post and your last one screams starcraft fanboy to me, not the other way around. This is a thread about warcraft 2 so of course im going to talk positively about the game, as im trying to get players to give it a try. It's you that has come in trying to knock it down that it doesnt even come close to comparing to starcraft. I am not sure how you think i am talking every other rts down when all i have tried to do is show people the positive aspects of warcraft. There has been 0 put downs on other rts, infact i acknowledge that starcraft is a really good and solid rts i never once said it wasnt. So please make sure your comments are accurate and represent what was actually said.
Did you even read my posts? You should be more accurate with your comments... My posts would make more sense if you add your comments i replied to as well. The first reply quote just showed your lack of knowledge.
On July 24 2014 22:30 RouaF wrote: Pointless debate is pointless. Warcraft 2 is an amazing game, stacraft is an amazing game. I have amazing memories from both these games and both are extremely fast-paced.
As for the balance yes human is almost unplayable because you would need 2000 apm to micro paladin's heals perfectly, and even then it seems bloodlust is still stronger. As has been said it doesn't really matter because everyone plays orc so there is perfect balance but obviously less diversity.
This.
To those complaining about BM on the war2combat server: have you played Iccup recently?
No, but why do people think you can justify everything that is negative if others do it? IMO thats a twisted logic.
On July 21 2014 15:25 Luoson wrote: everyone plays one race which makes it the most perfectly balanced strategy game to exist.
That is some seriously twisted logic.
Best of luck with the tournament, it's always good to see some activity in some different RTS communities than starcraft.
How is that twisted logic? Obviously if there is only 1 race then there is no unit imbalance between the races, everyone has the same tools available to them. When you add other races in it becomes impossible to perfectly balance.. Look at starcraft 2, been out for nearly 5 years or so and balance patches still come out. To many variables to balance perfectly. Im strictly talking about balance here not interest level or variety or anything like that. Think like car racing, what do you think will be more balanced, 1 nissan 1 subaru 1 ford, or all 3 people racing the same ford. This may not necessarily make it more fun but it does make it more balanced. Keep in mind i know that starcraft 1 is pretty balanced now after 10+ years of patches.
The point im trying make here is that having different races doesnt make the game better, the difference is in the strategies which has plenty of variety with the one race to make it a solid game.
Also to the guy trying argue with unit responsiveness, We have a program that sets it to almost lan latency, there is no issues with responsiveness, i click and the unit moves almost instantly and if you had responsiveness issues then it's your computer. Ive played thousands of games and never considered this an issue.
Also one aspect is wc2 is the last pure rts, everything is manual. APM is more important. You cannot cue up 5 workers like in sc1, if you are slow to make that 2nd worker after your first is completed then your behind in production. This really does open up the gaps between noobs and pros even further. Having no cues and no rally points makes the game more skillful, less automation more needing quick apm and fast reacting. Which i found a huge issue in sc2, because ever decent player had the same economy there wasn't really much in the way to get ahead because of the automation.
Please keep in mind im not trying agure what game is better, because clearly starcraft won in the popularity contest, but warcraft 2 is almost a 20 year old game and still has an active player base, that can only give credit to it being a good strategy game.
Hope some of you will come along and see how it's played on the skilled level.
Umm theres 1 race in War2 because Humans suck compared to Orcs? If anything that shows true imbalance just because 1 race is completely unviable in comparison to the other
I know literally nothing about War2, but a game doesn't have to be balanced to be balanced.
What I mean by that is that the metagame can theoretically still be perfectly balanced, even if a game itself is not balanced by definition. One race being completely eliminated from play is actually the best and most extreme example of this process I've ever seen and I find this very interesting. It really depends on your personal definition of balance of course.
On July 24 2014 22:30 RouaF wrote: Pointless debate is pointless. Warcraft 2 is an amazing game, stacraft is an amazing game. I have amazing memories from both these games and both are extremely fast-paced.
As for the balance yes human is almost unplayable because you would need 2000 apm to micro paladin's heals perfectly, and even then it seems bloodlust is still stronger. As has been said it doesn't really matter because everyone plays orc so there is perfect balance but obviously less diversity.
In theory Humans can actually outplay an Orc if they make it to the late game because Mages are fucking 100x better than Death Knights with the amount of control that they have. Getting there along with fully upgrading them and then controlling them is a totally different matter.
Execution wise it's just easier to mass Ogre Magi and just bloodlust and face smash.
On August 06 2014 14:59 Smuft wrote: When viruz 2 hall small 9 and 9 why doesnt he get 1 archer? seems like it'll pay for itself in repair cost + peons not mining easily.
Takes time away from building a cat (catapult)which can stop towers, an axer cant. The timing isnt good for an axer altho it can be used to push off early attackers but way more risky if they offensively tower.
Also at s9/9 duals u always need a cat, so it's better to just go to that rather then wasting resources on axers, it's actually really fine lined, urll be dropping to 0 gold quite often if ur good
I watched all 3 games and was impressed, but I just couldn't understand, why do they have terrible terrible macro and stack soooooo much money like a D- player?
Why don't they dump all that money into more barracks and farms?
Finally started watching these and they're really great, although the manner seems to be a bit lacking.
I'm wondering, though: Why doesn't anyone organize Human vs. Human tournaments (where you have to choose Human)? Of course there are no balance issues with everyone playing Orc, since Orc > Human, but there are also no balance issues if both players have to pick Human. It seems like there's an entire game that we're missing out on.
orc vs orc is what warcraft 2 is. The dynamics are so much more exciting with lust. It speeds the game up since lusted ogres kill and can break buildings 3 times and quick. Human vs human is very boring and tends to be very draged out games because knights cannot break walls as easily.
To the guy who said they have horrible marco, they dont really, its common to stack 10,000-30,000 gold late game. 9 ogres cost 7200 gold ! the problem is with putting down more rax is that huge numbers of ogres can be killed with smaller amounts with better control, a dk can wipe out huge numbers alone. It's generally too risky and you should only have enough groups that you can control (defense and 2 offensive on different part of the maps) few ogres here n there to kill expos etc
Also you must remember, unlike starcraft. Warcraft has no cueing you have to manually make every unit, so it's more time consuming to use your resources. Bloodlust takes time to mirco etc cant get caught off guard. 4 lusted ogres can take out 12 unlusted ogres with good control.
On August 14 2014 18:02 Luoson wrote: orc vs orc is what warcraft 2 is. The dynamics are so much more exciting with lust. It speeds the game up since lusted ogres kill and can break buildings 3 times and quick. Human vs human is very boring and tends to be very draged out games because knights cannot break walls as easily.
To the guy who said they have horrible marco, they dont really, its common to stack 10,000-30,000 gold late game. 9 ogres cost 7200 gold ! the problem is with putting down more rax is that huge numbers of ogres can be killed with smaller amounts with better control, a dk can wipe out huge numbers alone. It's generally too risky and you should only have enough groups that you can control (defense and 2 offensive on different part of the maps) few ogres here n there to kill expos etc
Also you must remember, unlike starcraft. Warcraft has no cueing you have to manually make every unit, so it's more time consuming to use your resources. Bloodlust takes time to mirco etc cant get caught off guard. 4 lusted ogres can take out 12 unlusted ogres with good control.
EPT
