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On March 21 2014 04:20 YokaY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:21 Kyuukyuu wrote:On March 21 2014 02:15 YokaY wrote: Is there a small delay to when you can input things after wavedashing?
I wanna blame my emulator/controller but maybe i'm just remembering wrong. There's a couple frames of standard landing lag My follow up question is, is there normally an input buffer when you wavesmash? Or do you just have to time after your landing lag?
The only buffering in melee is out of shield. If you're wavesmashing fast enough that you're concerned about landing lag you should probably just smash someone, since the only reason you wavesmash is to change the range of the smash. If you input it when you're still in the air then nothing will happen. You can smash out of a wavedash any time you're sliding on the ground. If you have an emulator theres a chance that it will have some lag.
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Considering buying a GC controller with USB for use on dolphin (https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1b4c/). Anyone have any experience with this?
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Hey! Was wondering if they've developed any sort of reliable means for online play via Dolphin or any other kind of emulator?
I'm a happy owner of two copies of the game, so I'm not trying to break the law or anything like that. Was just wondering, seeing as how Smash seems to be picking up as an eSport again.
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United States10328 Posts
On March 21 2014 11:05 AimlessAmoeba wrote: Hey! Was wondering if they've developed any sort of reliable means for online play via Dolphin or any other kind of emulator?
I'm a happy owner of two copies of the game, so I'm not trying to break the law or anything like that. Was just wondering, seeing as how Smash seems to be picking up as an eSport again.
Yep, this was answered earlier in the thread:
Maybe this should be put into the OP or stickied or something
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Aerials with c-stick? Or a-button? Or dependent on direction?
I'm having trouble doing things like that sh double forward air with marth if i'm going right...
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United States10328 Posts
You can do either. If you want to aerial the opposite direction you're moving is, c-stick is definitely easier; I usually do directional aerials with c-stick.
One notable exception: Peach actually often wants to do aerials with direction + Z if she's floating (since you need to keep your thumb on the jump button). Some people like doing nairs out of shield with Z, but I play Samus so it sucks
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threw a couple answers to some FAQs in the OP, lemme know if theres repeat questions in here that need to be addressed in the op
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On March 21 2014 11:57 YokaY wrote: Aerials with c-stick? Or a-button? Or dependent on direction?
I'm having trouble doing things like that sh double forward air with marth if i'm going right...
Short hope double F-air is more of a timing thing and learning how to Fair immediately after the jump. I do aerials depending on how my hand position is at but Iike ]343[ said it's mainly preference. Then again I play Falco so I switch hand positions to waveshine and if I'm in my waveshine grip I'm using c-stick. When I play luigi I exclusively aerial using a-button.
On March 21 2014 10:57 sushiko wrote: Considering buying a GC controller with USB for use on dolphin (https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1b4c/). Anyone have any experience with this?
I have never seen those being used before but it's for USB so it's hard to say. They could be good but I've never heard of a good third party controller.
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On March 21 2014 11:57 YokaY wrote: Aerials with c-stick? Or a-button? Or dependent on direction?
I'm having trouble doing things like that sh double forward air with marth if i'm going right...
C-stick aerials vs. A-button aerials is largely preference, but there are some things that are infinitely easier with c-stick. Running forward with a bair, drifting backward with a fair, fastfalling a sh uair, doing a delayed dair with no fastfall, etc. On the other hand you sometimes want a very fast, instant rising aerial, in which case the A-button being so much closer to X/Y makes all the difference. Get used to both, most people I've talked to use a hybrid.
On March 21 2014 10:57 sushiko wrote: Considering buying a GC controller with USB for use on dolphin (https://www.thinkgeek.com/product/1b4c/). Anyone have any experience with this?
Don't do this, buy a GC-USB adapter instead.
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On March 21 2014 04:20 YokaY wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2014 02:21 Kyuukyuu wrote:On March 21 2014 02:15 YokaY wrote: Is there a small delay to when you can input things after wavedashing?
I wanna blame my emulator/controller but maybe i'm just remembering wrong. There's a couple frames of standard landing lag My follow up question is, is there normally an input buffer when you wavesmash? Or do you just have to time after your landing lag?
there's no buffer for most inputs after a wavedash (i think crouching, shielding, walking and turnaround are the only inputs that will buffer during LandFallSpecial), so you have to just learn the timing in order to act asap after the lag is over. luckily, this is the same for every character, so it can be reduced to muscle memory rather than any sort of visual timing: landing during or after an airdodge will always yield 10 frames of unactionable lag.
landing after or during other moves that cause LandFallSpecial (such as most Up+Bs and some Forward+Bs) will yield varying amounts of lag depending on the move. landing during other attack animations will yield varying amounts of lag depending on the move. and landing while neutral will yield varying amounts of lag depending on the character (though it's usually 4 frames).
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How does character picking in tournaments work? Like if someone tries to counterpick you can you just change characters to avoid it or is only one person allowed to change?
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Hyrule18821 Posts
first pick is usually double blind and ends up being mains (some people use a secondary because they don't like mirrors)
after that winner bans a stage loser picks stage winner picks character loser picks character
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I have been having trouble SHUFFling I just started and I'm playing Falco. Right now I am trying to use the thumstick for short hops and a for aerials (I'm also having a lot of trouble just short hopping while fighting). Is this what I should be practicing or should I use x/y and c stick?
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On March 21 2014 12:01 ]343[ wrote:You can do either. If you want to aerial the opposite direction you're moving is, c-stick is definitely easier; I usually do directional aerials with c-stick. One notable exception: Peach actually often wants to do aerials with direction + Z if she's floating (since you need to keep your thumb on the jump button). Some people like doing nairs out of shield with Z, but I play Samus so it sucks I highly suggest using a claw grip with Peach. There are a few variations of these grips, but the most popular is using your right index finger to jump with Y, and using your middle finger on Z. This means that floating, holding floats, and doing aerials while moving are incredibly easy, as you can have simultaneous access to your left stick, jump button, and C-stick. There are two main downsides that this grip has. The first is that wavedashing is weird/harder, as it puts a lot more pressure on your left index finger. This isn't a huge concern with Peach, who doesn't have a great wavedash, and get's easier with some practice. Wavedashing out-of-shield also can be a bit tricky, but I just use the analog portion of the trigger to shield, then click down fully after I jump OOS to wavedash. Again, some practice makes this easier. The other downside is that grabbing is less natural with your middle finger, and jump-cancelled grabs are harder. Shield grabbing is obviously not a concern. I tend to just switch back to a normal grip when I expect to grab (e.g. beginning of a chain-grab).
On March 22 2014 11:59 Ethoex wrote: I have been having trouble SHUFFling I just started and I'm playing Falco. Right now I am trying to use the thumstick for short hops and a for aerials (I'm also having a lot of trouble just short hopping while fighting). Is this what I should be practicing or should I use x/y and c stick? Don't try to use the stick for jumping. It's pretty difficult and not recommended for general play. It's usually best to use Y/X for jumping and C-stick for directional aerials.
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On March 22 2014 12:20 theonemephisto wrote: Don't try to use the stick for jumping. It's pretty difficult and not recommended for general play. It's usually best to use Y/X for jumping and C-stick for directional aerials.
to elaborate on this:
the main reason you'll see most people recommend X/Y for jumping and C-Stick for aerials is so that you separate your movement totally from your other action/attack inputs. what i mean is, if you use this control scheme, your left thumb is free to control your ground and aerial movement in any way you choose, while your right thumb handles jumping and attack selection. this lets you do things such as dash forward, jump backward, and forward-air while continuing to drift backwards, for instance.
also, re: short hopping, if you are using X/Y to jump, you can slide your thumb off of the very edge of the button (so that your thumb slips off and presses into the main controller body). this makes sure that no matter how hard you press the button, you will necessarily release it quickly enough to short hop successfully. this method also starts your thumb moving away from the button array and towards the C-Stick, making quick aerials a little bit easier to execute.
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What maps are used for tournament play?
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On March 22 2014 23:59 StuBob wrote: What maps are used for tournament play? Battlefield, Final Destination, Yoshi's Story, Dreamland, Pokemon Stadium and Fountain of Dreams.
In P:M it's usually the bottom row of stages with the one above it as counter-picks.
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what is it about those maps that make them suitable for tournament play? are other maps even allowed?
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On March 23 2014 02:05 Aveng3r wrote: what is it about those maps that make them suitable for tournament play? are other maps even allowed?
They're considered at least somewhat balanced, and are aimed at reducing random variation and players losing to things besides skill. Obviously it's not perfect as most smash stages aren't exactly tailored towards less randomness, but there you go. Notice aside from FD and Pokemon Stadium the others are all three-platform stages of varying platform size, height, stage size, blast zone heights, etc.
Other maps used to be allowed - Peach's Castle, Corneria, Rainbow Cruise, Pokefloats (!), Mute City, Brinstar, and Kongo Jungle 64 used to all be legal but were banned for one reason or another. Additionally, KJ64 is still legal in doubles while Fountain of Dreams is banned.
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it's not really codified anywhere, but having watched the stage list change over the years and been apart of alot of the debates, i'd pretty much describe it like this:
competition is supposed to test a core skillset and that skillset consists of movement-based neutral game, combo/escape, and edgeguard/recovery. and stage features that marginalize or interfere with those core skills or otherwise alter the gameplay in a way that match outcome isn't determined majorly by those core skills are undesirable.
so walk-off blastlines (see: Flatzone, Mushroom Kingdom 1 or 2) pretty much kill edgeguard/recovery. so does the ability to survive infinitely by teching on Hyrule Temple. lack of ledges and the ability to recover through the main stage floor dramatically change edgeguard/recovery in a way that creates almost a new required skill that isn't represented in the rest of the stages (see: Mute City. the river in Jungle Japes also kind of does this). moving camera stages dramatically alter and kind of destroy the idea of a movement-based neutral game; in addition, players have to prioritize dealing with the stage to avoid SDing over comboing or edgeguarding (see: Rainbow Cruise, PokéFloats). that second bit is also the problem with powerful stage hazards (like the acid on Brinstar, which also ruins the stage topography).
but you also want fairness in a set, so there shouldn't be super high variance in expected matchup results over a bo3 or bo5 based on counterpick stages. so you get rid of stages with excessively close (Green Greens, Onett) or inconsistent (Venom) blastlines. you also have to deal with random stage hazards (like bomb blocks or exploding apples on Green Greens)—and especially exploitable ones (like Banzai Bill on Princess Peach's Castle), so you reduce the amount of flukey cheesy wins.
YI64 and KJ64 are banned mostly because of their prohibitive platform heights (and the far clouds on YI64, which some characters can't even reach or make it back from), which causes a pretty big imbalance between camp and approach, depending on a character's movement speed and jump height. KJ64 also has a pretty common glitch where you can airdodge down through the stage while trying to wavedash at certain seams.
once you've applied this filter, you end up with Battlefield, Dreamland 64, Final Destination, Fountain of Dreams, Pokémon Stadium, and Yoshi's Story.
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