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On February 19 2014 02:56 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 02:47 stuchiu wrote:On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). What people want is a game that's challenging when it doesn't need to be ("lol walking to towns is so hard" and so they can deny the game is easy to their friends) and easy when it gets too hard ("oh no, a whole day on a puzzle, whatever will we do") rather than play by established rules that make the whole thing challenging and getting better at it over time. They don't know, or care, that you'll never have an experience as fulfilling as cutting a simple tree when a game is easy, they just want to beat the game with a moderate amount of challenge but not too much (god forbid we get stuck in 1 area!) Filthy god-damn casuals. I don't mind casuals cause usually they don't impact me at all. But it sucks that they saw this screen and clicked yes since I was having fun watching the progress. Owell, easy enough to move on to something else.
The way I see it democracy will only win when anarchy is becoming boring, and once democracy has become boring, anarchy will win the vote back anyway.
So while some progress will be made with easy mode, it will be followed up by chaos pretty quickly.
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On February 19 2014 03:47 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 02:56 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:47 stuchiu wrote:On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). What people want is a game that's challenging when it doesn't need to be ("lol walking to towns is so hard" and so they can deny the game is easy to their friends) and easy when it gets too hard ("oh no, a whole day on a puzzle, whatever will we do") rather than play by established rules that make the whole thing challenging and getting better at it over time. They don't know, or care, that you'll never have an experience as fulfilling as cutting a simple tree when a game is easy, they just want to beat the game with a moderate amount of challenge but not too much (god forbid we get stuck in 1 area!) Filthy god-damn casuals. I don't mind casuals cause usually they don't impact me at all. But it sucks that they saw this screen and clicked yes since I was having fun watching the progress. Owell, easy enough to move on to something else. The way I see it democracy will only win when anarchy is becoming boring, and once democracy has become boring, anarchy will win the vote back anyway. So while some progress will be made with easy mode, it will be followed up by chaos pretty quickly.
The issue is that like 80% of the commands are taken by the diplomacy war. I think this kills the point and just makes things less interesting.
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they had a good thing going, now with the voting it's just lame
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On February 19 2014 03:52 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 03:47 Myrddraal wrote:On February 19 2014 02:56 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:47 stuchiu wrote:On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). What people want is a game that's challenging when it doesn't need to be ("lol walking to towns is so hard" and so they can deny the game is easy to their friends) and easy when it gets too hard ("oh no, a whole day on a puzzle, whatever will we do") rather than play by established rules that make the whole thing challenging and getting better at it over time. They don't know, or care, that you'll never have an experience as fulfilling as cutting a simple tree when a game is easy, they just want to beat the game with a moderate amount of challenge but not too much (god forbid we get stuck in 1 area!) Filthy god-damn casuals. I don't mind casuals cause usually they don't impact me at all. But it sucks that they saw this screen and clicked yes since I was having fun watching the progress. Owell, easy enough to move on to something else. The way I see it democracy will only win when anarchy is becoming boring, and once democracy has become boring, anarchy will win the vote back anyway. So while some progress will be made with easy mode, it will be followed up by chaos pretty quickly. The issue is that like 80% of the commands are taken by the diplomacy war. I think this kills the point and just makes things less interesting.
Yeah, since it has been introduced, I feel like I'm forced to only send Anarchy commands instead of actually participating 
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United Kingdom10443 Posts
I think this is how the country should be run, fuck the government
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Just create 2 streams, whats the issue.
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On February 19 2014 03:47 Myrddraal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 02:56 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:47 stuchiu wrote:On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). What people want is a game that's challenging when it doesn't need to be ("lol walking to towns is so hard" and so they can deny the game is easy to their friends) and easy when it gets too hard ("oh no, a whole day on a puzzle, whatever will we do") rather than play by established rules that make the whole thing challenging and getting better at it over time. They don't know, or care, that you'll never have an experience as fulfilling as cutting a simple tree when a game is easy, they just want to beat the game with a moderate amount of challenge but not too much (god forbid we get stuck in 1 area!) Filthy god-damn casuals. I don't mind casuals cause usually they don't impact me at all. But it sucks that they saw this screen and clicked yes since I was having fun watching the progress. Owell, easy enough to move on to something else. The way I see it democracy will only win when anarchy is becoming boring, and once democracy has become boring, anarchy will win the vote back anyway. So while some progress will be made with easy mode, it will be followed up by chaos pretty quickly.
I know, that's exactly what I said in my original post. People want to be challenged, but not actually challenged. If something is easy you crank it up to max difficulty so you can say you're playing the game at max difficulty because easy things are boring. If something is hard you pop in the cheat code and move on cause hard things are also boring, or "oh, I'll eventually beat this boss in max difficulty anyways so I'm just saving time not cheating", "it's not real difficulty", "it's cheap how few people can screw up the majority" etc. (basically, all the complaints from Dark Souls on forums when it came out) all the while not realizing having a few people screw with the larger amount of people is what made things like cave exploration/getting rid of starter/cutting a tree so memorable and fulfilling when it was finally completed.
The "we're gonna do it anyways so let's just take a shortcut" mentality is obviously the majority (which is why every game lets you change difficulty settings in the middle of the game now), which is fine, but it's just not for me because it's really boring to watch and hearing "we got lift key" or "we beat giovanni" is meaningless. Of course you beat giovanni, and got the lift key, how can you not? It's so easy to do now. The argument is then: it's not easy to do, there's still 90k viewers! Sure, beating a particularly hard boss on normal instead of impossible isn't easy to do either, it just doesn't feel the same (to me) and is meaningless (to me).
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Another issue is that the best parts of the run happened in the hard sections. This wouldn't have been as fun without the Ledge of Doom, the fear of the PC, etc. If all that had been done in diplomacy mode, we would have lost so many special moments.
Anarchy in the easy parts isn't interesting, it's just walking randomnly for 15 mins. Anarchy in the hard spots, and how they managed to overcome it, is what generates the true stories.
We always talk about how the run cannot fail, because if the interest drops, it becomes easy, but I can understand why the streamer doesn't want the interest to drop. It's just worse for the viewers.
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On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time).
But isn't it the case that once one side wins, they will start playing as normal, and the other side starts voting for their method? So is it not just being tossed back and forth?
I loved hearing about the start9 riots, but if the chat is actually swaying toward democracy a majority of the time (or it goes from anarchy->democracy faster than democracy->anarchy) then I'm kind of legitimately depressed.
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Well RIP in peace Flareon you follower of the Dome Fossil scum.
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On February 19 2014 04:08 Duka08 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). But isn't it the case that once one side wins, they will start playing as normal, and the other side starts voting for their method? So is it not just being tossed back and forth? I loved hearing about the start9 riots, but if the chat is legitimately swaying toward democracy a majority of the time (or it goes from anarchy->democracy faster than democracy->anarchy) then I'm kind of legitimately depressed.
Well, you need a 70% vote to get it back, and it's been stuck on democracy last time I checked. I'm sure it will go anarchy again when things get easy. It's just pointless cause anytime difficulty comes up, or there's a chance to lose a valuable pokemon (like the pidgeot) then it'll just go democracy and beat it/avoid disaster. Basically, safe and boring with a much higher chance at success -- not guaranteed by any means (this run still dies at safari zone surf at latest) but it's just boring any time you need to increase your success rate you just kinda do it.
Hell, even if they ditch pidgeot it'd be boring with democracy. Just a "well, we systematically voted out pidgeot"... who cares? No images of people spamming 'b' for charmeleon, no images of that one guy who pushed 'a' amidst a wall of 'b's and starts. Yeah, there will be stories about "we got anarchy for 1 hour and did this!" but it's so much less meaningful that completing game objectives despite people working actively against them.
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FLAREON RELEASED!!!
THE FAIL PROPHET HAS FALLEN
ALL HAIL ANARCHY
On February 19 2014 04:13 Count9 wrote:(this run still dies at safari zone surf at latest)
actually, the game has been changed so safari has no step limit. filthy casual.
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On February 19 2014 04:13 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 04:08 Duka08 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). But isn't it the case that once one side wins, they will start playing as normal, and the other side starts voting for their method? So is it not just being tossed back and forth? I loved hearing about the start9 riots, but if the chat is legitimately swaying toward democracy a majority of the time (or it goes from anarchy->democracy faster than democracy->anarchy) then I'm kind of legitimately depressed. Well, you need a 70% vote to get it back, and it's been stuck on democracy last time I checked. I'm sure it will go anarchy again when things get easy. It's just pointless cause anytime difficulty comes up, or there's a chance to lose a valuable pokemon (like the pidgeot) then it'll just go democracy and beat it/avoid disaster. Basically, safe and boring with a much higher chance at success -- not guaranteed by any means (this run still dies at safari zone surf at latest) but it's just boring any time you need to increase your success rate you just kinda do it.
It won't die at Safari Zone, steps counter is removed. I'm fine with that, it's the one section where it would be almost literally impossible.
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On February 19 2014 04:13 Count9 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 04:08 Duka08 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). But isn't it the case that once one side wins, they will start playing as normal, and the other side starts voting for their method? So is it not just being tossed back and forth? I loved hearing about the start9 riots, but if the chat is legitimately swaying toward democracy a majority of the time (or it goes from anarchy->democracy faster than democracy->anarchy) then I'm kind of legitimately depressed. Well, you need a 70% vote to get it back, and it's been stuck on democracy last time I checked. I'm sure it will go anarchy again when things get easy. It's just pointless cause anytime difficulty comes up, or there's a chance to lose a valuable pokemon (like the pidgeot) then it'll just go democracy and beat it/avoid disaster. Basically, safe and boring with a much higher chance at success -- not guaranteed by any means (this run still dies at safari zone surf at latest) but it's just boring any time you need to increase your success rate you just kinda do it.
I thought they'd just disable it, or make it so after like 12 damn hours of failing, toggle it on for a brief time.
People voting for democracy... actually playing with the intention of beating the game? Or at least, doing so quickly? Isn't that not really even the point?
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On February 19 2014 04:15 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On February 19 2014 04:13 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 04:08 Duka08 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:37 Count9 wrote:On February 19 2014 02:33 Duka08 wrote:
I do hope they get rid of democracy =/ They won't, it's what the majority wants (or else anarchy votes would win the poll most of the time). But isn't it the case that once one side wins, they will start playing as normal, and the other side starts voting for their method? So is it not just being tossed back and forth? I loved hearing about the start9 riots, but if the chat is legitimately swaying toward democracy a majority of the time (or it goes from anarchy->democracy faster than democracy->anarchy) then I'm kind of legitimately depressed. Well, you need a 70% vote to get it back, and it's been stuck on democracy last time I checked. I'm sure it will go anarchy again when things get easy. It's just pointless cause anytime difficulty comes up, or there's a chance to lose a valuable pokemon (like the pidgeot) then it'll just go democracy and beat it/avoid disaster. Basically, safe and boring with a much higher chance at success -- not guaranteed by any means (this run still dies at safari zone surf at latest) but it's just boring any time you need to increase your success rate you just kinda do it. It won't die at Safari Zone, steps counter is removed. I'm fine with that, it's the one section where it would be almost literally impossible.
oh, makes the game easier but I'm fine with that since it's literally impossible and there's really no argument against it. Doesn't change anything I've said. The run is pretty meaningless now that it's gotten so much easier.
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The worst part being that now when it's set to anarchy, there's so much dispute over switching back that people aren't even trying a little bit to actually progress it seems.
Democracy why
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omfg this is hilarious, im just sitting here watching people spam and seeing Ash spin around in circles, constantly open the menu and run into the wall, been like this for 10 minutes straight.
Amazing.
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i don't understand why people like count9 are talking about democracy "breaking the rules" or w/e? are these rules not imposed only in your mind? so far as i can tell, having watched the stream from the near-beginning, the stream rules are "enter text commands"
the stream itself has, to me, never been that interesting. the content and storylines created because of it are awesome though. in fact, the meta-storylines ("changing to democracy invalidates the run" etc) are even more fascinating to me. the author has truly created something special
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On February 19 2014 04:29 gtrsrs wrote:
i don't understand why people like count9 are talking about democracy "breaking the rules" or w/e? are these rules not imposed only in your mind? so far as i can tell, having watched the stream from the near-beginning, the stream rules are "enter text commands"
the stream itself has, to me, never been that interesting. the content and storylines created because of it are awesome though. in fact, the meta-storylines ("changing to democracy invalidates the run" etc) are even more fascinating to me. the author has truly created something special
Most storylines wouldn't have happened with democracy, which is the biggest issue with it.
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I don't really care how it's controlled, but it's a fact that start9 wins the vote every time right now.
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EPT
