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Noizhende
Austria328 Posts
On January 06 2014 15:50 Golgotha wrote: if i buy dreadmist cloth gear, will it still help me level at and after 85? I'm nearing 85 and would like to speed things up as much as i can. Thank you! They stop offering xp boni above 85 it seems: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/6713481901 | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
Warlords JC Rework (Speculation/Suggestion) If gem slots would simply have 'random chance' to appear on gear, whole GEMS concept would be kinda lame. Instead : - Head and weapons now always have GEM SOCKET (1 for head/ 2 for weapon). - Gems might be freely socketed and removed from sockets without destroing them, so player might quickly upgrade a piece of gear without need for new set of gems. - All sockets are considered prismatic - Gems crafted with JC might rarely have bonus tetriary stats. Both the kind of tetriary stat and are value is random. For example getting this "perfect" [Quick multistrike] gem will be very hard and its value might be outside 'every week expenses'. But with possibility to unsocket gems from old piece of gear and moving it to new, it might be good investment for top content players. - Unique gems with stats not following standard rules might drop from Raid bosses. Thats kind of direction I would love Jewelcrafting to go. Not only does this genius want to effectively remove Jewelcrafting from the economy, but he also wants to butcher the profession itself and effectively turn it into some RNG-fest (and this is on top of the already-terrible MoP JC system). Now, my complaint isn't with this player directly... but rather the big picture. The unfortunate truth is that borderline-retarded suggestions like this are posted on the official forums all the time and outnumber decent suggestions a hundred to one. Now, as incompetent as Blizzard can be at times even they know that most of these suggestions are terrible. The problem lies in numbers. When the overwhelming majority of their playerbase makes terrible suggestions, and when the same terrible suggestions inevitably get reposted hundreds of times... at some point Blizzard has to cave in - not necessarily because they want to, but because their financial bottom line does. Take Inscription as an example. A few expansions ago glyphs were similar to gems in that you needed to purchase a new one every time you swapped. The economy for them was great; prices were low to account for needing to buy more than one, but you could make profit with it due to people coming back for more. The glyphs themselves were learned via books, which was a great system. You could do a daily research for a random glyph of lower quality, and then you could farm or purchase books to learn the high end ones. Even though the glyphs you learned were random it didn't really matter because nearly all of them were useful to some extent. And, if you were willing to shell out some gold, you could learn the valuable glyphs faster than normal. So how did Inscription go from a near-perfect profession to the worthless Darkmoon card-spamming one it is today? Well, let me preface by saying the profession itself isn't worthless. Darkmoon cards can make hundreds of thousands of gold in the first month or two of a new expansion. But the profit of Inscription used to be spread evenly across multiple items whereas now it's pretty much all in the cards. This happened because all of the casual players whined that glyphs were too expensive. They didn't like having to spend 100g a week on glyphs while raiding. After enough whining Blizzard caved in and butchered the system, adding a ton of useless glyphs, removing the ability to spend gold for faster research, and worst of all turning glyphs into a one-time purchase. To make matters worse, the prices of glyphs didn't change at all - despite the fact that you now only had to buy them once. Ever. Without getting into too much detail, a similar butchering happened to Enchanting and Jewelcrafting. The same catering to casuals has also happened in nearly every other aspect of the game. World PvP, Heroics, Raids - you name it, casual players have whined until things were adjusted to their liking. Remember back in vanilla or TBC where you could be one of a small handful of players on your server that had a certain profession recipe because you put in the extra effort to get it? Now everyone gets everything! Remember when you could set yourself apart on your server by being excellent at crowd control, raid awareness, etc? People sought you out for their dungeon groups and raids because of it. Not anymore! It's hard for me to form an opinion on Warlods of Draenor at the moment. I really loved Outland. I like the lore, I like style, etc. Going there again, albeit in a different format, sounds great to me. What doesn't sound great is pretty much everything else they've released about WoD so far - and the post I quoted above is exactly why. As stated earlier, there are loads and loads of stupid suggestions each day. These come from the casual players that make up 90-99% of Blizzard's playerbase. These players don't raid; they do dailies, get carried through LFR, and well... that's about it. Yet they have all the power. These weekend warriors that sub, play for 3-4 months, then quit. Blizzard makes design decisions based around them because they are the voice of the community. I can't blame Blizzard for catering to the hands that feed them. I can't even blame the hands that do the feeding. I kind of feel like I should blame myself for not spending the time to reply to every idiotic suggestion explaining why it's terrible and attempting to change the mind of the poster. It would be a full time job, so I can't. Too many games these days suffer from the same issue. I have nothing against casual players, just like I have nothing against the hardcore of the hardcore that play their favorite game 23/7. But damn if it isn't frustrating seeing things you enjoy removed or watered down simply because people who don't understand them or don't/can't put in the time to learn them have the louder voice. The point of this post? Nothing at all, really. It's 5am and I couldn't sleep so I decided to rant about how one of my favorite professions will be horse shit next expansion (moreso than it already is this expansion). I had a strong urge to register an account at MMO-C and reply to that post but then I remembered back to the last time I made a post on a community forum... I spent months gathering hard data on item duping in WoW (and to a lesser extent D3). I made a big thread, full of facts, data, links, and personal experience from myself and a dozen other players (some of whom are very well-known elsewhere) that had firsthand experience with dupes. I spent hours writing up a forum post in order to educate people about the issue and finally hit the post button. Half an hour later I checked my thread to find it already had four pages of replies. Great! Or not... because I read through the replies and every single one was some clueless dolt blindly defending Blizzard with remarks like "if there were dupes blizzard would make a front page news post about it to tell us" or "battlenet cant be hacked". In my view it's a lost cause. Most players are dumb and unwilling to learn. Call it nostalgia all you want but a decade ago gaming communities and the games they belonged to were influenced mainly by people that actually knew what they were talking about. #NOSTLAGIA | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
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nimbim
Germany983 Posts
It is true, this is totally catering to the casuals who don't want to spend x hours every week to farm gold/mats. However, I don't see what difference it makes, it's not like farming is fun for anyone in the long run. Blizzard is filtering the stupid suggestions just fine, in my opinion. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21339 Posts
On January 06 2014 19:58 nimbim wrote: I disagree with what you wrote about glyphs. The whole idea behind making them reusable is the ability to swap them on the fly in a raid etc without having to permanently reserve several slots of inventory. A simple matter of convience. They removed soulstones and arrows for the same reason and I take it you don't disagree with that. It is true, this is totally catering to the casuals who don't want to spend x hours every week to farm gold/mats. However, I don't see what difference it makes, it's not like farming is fun for anyone in the long run. Blizzard is filtering the stupid suggestions just fine, in my opinion. His argument i think wasnt so much about making it for casuals and convience as the fact that it killed the profession. It does nothing besides the card decks and a few new glyphs for a week when they get introduced because no one needs to buy anything else. from them | ||
Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On January 06 2014 19:58 nimbim wrote: I disagree with what you wrote about glyphs. The whole idea behind making them reusable is the ability to swap them on the fly in a raid etc without having to permanently reserve several slots of inventory. A simple matter of convience. They removed soulstones and arrows for the same reason and I take it you don't disagree with that. It is true, this is totally catering to the casuals who don't want to spend x hours every week to farm gold/mats. However, I don't see what difference it makes, it's not like farming is fun for anyone in the long run. Blizzard is filtering the stupid suggestions just fine, in my opinion. Changing soulstones and arrows didn't completely null a profession, though. As far as bag space is concerned they could have just relocated the inventory to the current glyph system in the form of charges. The problem is that nobody was complaining about having to use up 3-4 bag slots on glyphs, and glyphs were always able to be swapped on the fly in a raid. The change was made 100% because of people complaining about the cost of them, and having to spend ~100g a week on glyphs - the same way people complained about enchants being too expensive so now you can't even make profit on 90% of them. I disagree about having to farm, too. I average about 12k gold per hour without ever leaving town. If people couldn't make 100g a week for glyphs then it's certainly not an issue of farming but rather of simply being lazy and wanting things handed to them. I mean, look at the current situation. If you're raiding 6 hours a week that's gonna cost you less than 500g/week to raid. You can make that in half an hour of doing dailies, and yet still people complain that things are too expensive - even when the profit margins are nearly non-existent these days for most tradeskills. You can also see this laziness in Cooking and Blacksmithing this expansion; being able to level both to max while standing at the vendor. The changes to Inscription solved none of the problems you mentioned (as they weren't even problems in the first place), added new problems that previously did not exist (economy issues), and pretty much only benefited players who were lazy (those who raided but couldn't spend 30 minutes a week to support their own raiding). It had no effect on players who didn't raid and a negative affect on players who were putting in effort. I guess that's the overall gist of most changes; they do more harm than good, and generally the good that do is geared towards players that don't even do the content the changes affect the most in the first place. Epic gems come to mind from back in TBC and WoTLK. Players whined that epic gems were too expensive to purchase and so they were scrapped in later expansions. The problem is that the people who complained about them being too expensive were players who didn't even need to use them - players that didn't raid, or simply raided entry level content. They had no legit reason to purchase epic gems in the first place but "i pay $15 too!" took over and thus they felt entitled to be able to use them just like the raiders who actually needed them. Same thing happened with JC at the end of Cata (or was it WoTLK? I can't recall). Raiders had no problem spending that extra half an hour a week to pay for their new top-end enchants... but the non-raiders and lazy players couldn't afford them, even though they clearly didn't need endgame enchants for their dailies and dungeon runs. Thus, they whined and complained on the forums until Blizzard caved in and doubled the drop rate on dusts and essences. Later we got the horrible LFG Disenchant option that further devalues enchants - all to benefit a group of players that wanted a change they didn't need in the first place. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On January 06 2014 20:06 Teoita wrote: Do you have a link to your post on that item thing serejai? I wish. I probably have it saved someone but I posted it on the official forums and at the end of page 4 the thread was deleted and my account was forum banned for "trolling". I'll dig up a copy tonight. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
The other day i had the saddest moment when i thought "well shit, to be honest i dont NEED to keybind shackle undead on my priest alt, and i'm running out of hotkeys anyway". I miss cc being relevant. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
Hell some of the glyphs still go for between 150-300g and that's on busy servers. Also any profession can be maxed out by stood in front of a vendor ^_^ Best way to make money in this game is from that as well, farming old school mats like Cata LK TBC ore or herbs is the best way, put them on AH for 50g-100g a stack and you have people buying them out vendor leveling there professions. Also the issue with the economy in the game is down to the retard players who play it, other than that the economy would be fine. When you see those Golem mounts which took a whole 60days was it? or 30 i can't remember of doing a daily on top of all the bars you needed for them to be sold day for 40k was just stupid. Now you can pick one up for 20k? Lol great fun. Or when your stacks get undercut by a random 10g a stack just for NO REASON what so ever. Ha so much fun. Anyway my main point is that there is nothing wrong with professions imo they all seem fairly balance and have their own reward. You want mining on your tank get better HP buff, you want Inscription get a better shoulder enchant, you want Tailoring get better spellthreads. I think thats the way you should think of what profession you want to get not the "ah this will make me the most money" especially if your just a PvE player. | ||
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Teoita
Italy12246 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
I mean its great having the design for a really good item in your Tailoring/Blacksmithing etc but you still need mats the drop from latest raids to make it quickly. If not you have to wait 30 days  So 30days of being lazy but still having to farm cloth vs get it within a week or so of raid lock outs through the other option xD | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
On January 06 2014 20:26 Teoita wrote: Anyway, i agree on your point. I was incredibly happy in early Cata when they announced that cc would be back, heroics would be challenging again etc but i guess that didn't last (i quit anyway because i started playing sc2), which is really sad. The other day i had the saddest moment when i thought "well shit, to be honest i dont NEED to keybind shackle undead on my priest alt, and i'm running out of hotkeys anyway". I miss cc being relevant. The funny part is that Cata normals are still pretty punishing compared to Pandaria and everything before it. You can die so easily if you ignore boss mechanics or even trash mechanics (so many deaths in ToT to swells not being interrupted/dispelled and the ground-pounding faceless). I think Cata had, by far, the best normal/heroic dungeon for its time. | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
The beginning of an expansion is always the most fun and you can understand why most people come back for say 3months and then quit. The leveling is always fun the first time, the exploring the new content given. Then you get to the PvE side and your right ok now i wait for my tank/healer/dps friends to hit the level cap with me and spam dungeons until your falling asleep in your chair. Rinse and repeat for a few days whilst your guildies catch up then BOOM you start that first raid with everyone in blues, possibly the odd crafted epic if you have some serious farmers xD So much fun when your doing raid content in blues (even though im well aware its scaled to be able to be done in blues). Cannot wait for WoD  | ||
micronesia
United States24568 Posts
On January 06 2014 19:26 Serejai wrote: I saw this thread on MMO-C and had to repost here because it's fucking hilarious and yet explains perfectly why most people feel this game is turning to shit. You go on to say The problem lies in numbers. When the overwhelming majority of their playerbase makes terrible suggestions, and when the same terrible suggestions inevitably get reposted hundreds of times... at some point Blizzard has to cave in - not necessarily because they want to, but because their financial bottom line does. Which are "most people"? You are saying the problem is that the 'idiots' greatly outnumber the people who actually know what suggestions are good/bad. Would you say the same people who force blizzard to make terrible changes will later complain about how it ruined the game, or by 'most people' are you just saying: "amongst hardcore raiders/etc", or perhaps something else? Another thing you say Serejai: On January 06 2014 19:26 Serejai wrote:A few expansions ago glyphs were similar to gems in that you needed to purchase a new one every time you swapped. The economy for them was great; prices were low to account for needing to buy more than one, but you could make profit with it due to people coming back for more I don't know much about WoW economies, so what you say might be true, but it seems to violate my understanding of microeconomics. Assuming the methods and abilities to supply glyphs for sale on the auction house, etc, remained constant regardless of demand (which makes sense since herb node respawn rates don't scale with glyph demand), an increase in demand (as compared to today's system in mop for example) would result in an increase in prices, as per the four basic laws of supply and demand. Why would prices for glyphs be lower (accounting for expansion inflation, let's say) at a time when people needed many more glyphs? | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21339 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:49 micronesia wrote: I don't know much about WoW economies, so what you say might be true, but it seems to violate my understanding of microeconomics. Assuming the methods and abilities to supply glyphs for sale on the auction house, etc, remained constant regardless of demand (which makes sense since herb node respawn rates don't scale with glyph demand), an increase in demand (as compared to today's system in mop for example) would result in an increase in prices, as per the four basic laws of supply and demand. Why would prices for glyphs be lower (accounting for expansion inflation, let's say) at a time when people needed many more glyphs? More people needing glyphs means higher turnover in the AH which means traders post/refresh more often which makes them undercut more which drives down prices. Game economics dont always follow real live examples because people react differently when it concerns real or electronic goods. | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:49 micronesia wrote: Serejai I'm not going to agree or disagree with the main points you made in that big post since I don't feel I know enough to comment, but I want to address a couple of specific parts. You go on to say Which are "most people"? You are saying the problem is that the 'idiots' greatly outnumber the people who actually know what suggestions are good/bad. Would you say the same people who force blizzard to make terrible changes will later complain about how it ruined the game, or by 'most people' are you just saying: "amongst hardcore raiders/etc", or perhaps something else? Another thing you say Serejai: I don't know much about WoW economies, so what you say might be true, but it seems to violate my understanding of microeconomics. Assuming the methods and abilities to supply glyphs for sale on the auction house, etc, remained constant regardless of demand (which makes sense since herb node respawn rates don't scale with glyph demand), an increase in demand (as compared to today's system in mop for example) would result in an increase in prices, as per the four basic laws of supply and demand. Why would prices for glyphs be lower (accounting for expansion inflation, let's say) at a time when people needed many more glyphs? I'll just adress the last part as a Cata "wow economist" back then (meaning i just payed my subscription to play ebay). There was a lot of demands so a lot of selling. Everyone was destroying the prices constantly. It was never really stable but it would sell. Now you can try to sell glyphs on a low pop server... it never sells. Like EVER. I have glyphs that stayed 2month in the AH (and i was the only one to put them). | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51449 Posts
On January 07 2014 00:55 Gorsameth wrote: More people needing glyphs means higher turnover in the AH which means traders post/refresh more often which makes them undercut more which drives down prices. Game economics dont always follow real live examples because people react differently when it concerns real or electronic goods. Mainly due to kids not understanding what they are doing ie undercutting by not just 1g or even 1 silver but undercutting by 10gold, meaning the next guy undercuts 1g and ur stack u put on is now 11g to much = WTF It just silly really the whole thing of AH and kids just fuck everything up and best bet is to just make enough gold so you can manipulate the AH yourself. Or if that isn't the case then you just undercut every time and hope for fast sales. | ||
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