EPTMy idea of raiding is being on ts with people i know, discussing anything from beer to tactics to whatever the fuck, and actually having to put in some effort to down a boss. That will never ever happen in lfr and it's a huge part of why i enjoy raiding in the first place.
[wow] Warlords of Draenor - Page 60
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
My idea of raiding is being on ts with people i know, discussing anything from beer to tactics to whatever the fuck, and actually having to put in some effort to down a boss. That will never ever happen in lfr and it's a huge part of why i enjoy raiding in the first place. | ||
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Getting a strong group of you together to do this makes it even better and with the new raid system coming out it will become even better i think. (Being able to raid from 10-25 number of people) | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
On January 03 2014 10:16 Godwrath wrote: I am starting to play again, but levelling on a PvE server is too boring for me. STV was always the best part of levelling, but something tells me that with the LFR tool, i won't find outdoor pvp even if i camp towns. Let me tell you what made me ragequit from PvP servers: leveling an alt, I was in questing in STV (around level 30 with just a normal set of heirlooms), when this fully twinked level 10 (yeah, 10) enemy shaman appears. I couldn't kill him! Good luck interrupting his casts when they are under 1s thanks to haste and he still hits every spell because he probably has around 30% hit (gotta love how ratings work at low level). I know twinking appeals to a lot of people but to me its just stupid. Furthermore getting killed along with the quest givers for the 1238152th time when you get to Hellfire is not really fun. | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
[QUOTE]On January 03 2014 10:16 Godwrath wrote: I am starting to play again, but levelling on a PvE server is too boring for me. STV was always the best part of levelling, but something tells me that with the LFR tool, i won't find outdoor pvp even if i camp towns.[/QUOTE] Let me tell you what made me ragequit from PvP servers: leveling an alt, I was in questing in STV (around level 30 with just a normal set of heirlooms), when this fully twinked level 10 (yeah, 10) enemy shaman appears. I couldn't kill him!/QUOTE] Even if you weren't making this up, which you are, why didn't you just move on? It's not like he could ever be a threat to you... | ||
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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Arnstein
Norway3381 Posts
On January 03 2014 20:13 Pandemona wrote: Yeah thats why i like raiding too, nothing beats having banter on voice comms with your mates whilst trying to down bosses and being semi serious doing it. Getting a strong group of you together to do this makes it even better and with the new raid system coming out it will become even better i think. (Being able to raid from 10-25 number of people) Of course I understand that this situation is 12323545234 times better than the LFR tool, but you can still get together a team and raid like that. I would love to do that if I had the time! | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I still rage quit LFR though, when you wipe on trash and you have idiots continually resting mobs and causing more mobs and stuff. Or you get Tank who hasn't read up on what to do and is tanking like he knows what he is doing, oh god that annoys me and happens alot xd Also i add you don't need to do LFR if you have raided previous tier. For example if you raided all of Mogushan Vaults and Heart of Fear you would not need to do LFR when TOES came out as you had all the gear you needed to do that raid from the start. As you also did not need to do LFR to do Mogushan Vaults or Heart of Fear as you could do those in full heroic blues ^_^ So in other words i you raid in a raid team and get yourself covered in epics from farming before the next content is out you don't have to touch LFR - AT ALL xD Which is what it is there for, it is not there to gear up for raids, its there for people who can't raid but want to see the last boss xD | ||
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Godwrath
Spain10152 Posts
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
When I played TBC, I had a couple of people who loved doing 5-men heroics, so whenever I had an evening with nothing to do, I could call up two of them, pick up our tank who was always online and pick a fifth decent player from a pool of friends I had made during TBC and Classic. We would have a blast on TS, do a challenging dungeon, reap our rewards in form of tokens and reputation and call it quits an hour or two later. And boy did we have a blast when Magister's Terrace came out. Doing that with Mage / Warrior / Shaman as DPS, wearing only gear from Karazhan, crafts and the stuff we got from other heroics was SO fun and we could even use some of the items. When 3.0 hit, it went from great to awesome, because of the added achievements and the Red Proto Drake. Things were really challenging, because we had the appropriate item level for the dungeons (180-200) and even if you'd pick up an item or two from Naxx 10, things weren't instantly trivial. Less-Rabi and the Occulus-Achievements still felt really challenging. So what are my options now? I can do LFR. I can cue for an hour while doing tedious daily quests, I can do my thing for an hour or so, alongside random players whose names mean nothing to me, who may as well be bots for all I care, my contribution doesn't matter in the slightest and even the loot system (which is vastly better than it ever was) feels unnatural and unrewarding. Of course I could steam-roll five-mens again, but the reward fits the challenge. | ||
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akatama
Romania982 Posts
[QUOTE]On January 03 2014 20:18 akatama wrote: [QUOTE]On January 03 2014 10:16 Godwrath wrote: I am starting to play again, but levelling on a PvE server is too boring for me. STV was always the best part of levelling, but something tells me that with the LFR tool, i won't find outdoor pvp even if i camp towns.[/QUOTE] Let me tell you what made me ragequit from PvP servers: leveling an alt, I was in questing in STV (around level 30 with just a normal set of heirlooms), when this fully twinked level 10 (yeah, 10) enemy shaman appears. I couldn't kill him!/QUOTE] Even if you weren't making this up, which you are, why didn't you just move on? It's not like he could ever be a threat to you...[/QUOTE] You are underestimating low level twinking. This is something you need to see in action. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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SixStrings
Germany2046 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I wasn't end end game level in TBC, i was just Kara and Zul Aman level later on. Yet it was so much fun because of all the friends you make through asking to play together. Then you become friends and you do lots of dungeons together. Adding in LK which imo was an under rated expansion your sat with achievements to farm with your friends until the dreaded LFG came into play then that changed. BUT you could still do achievements to get cool mounts from heroics which were good fun. Then you bridge the gap with raiding with new dungeons in patches which felt more fun. Anyway, nostaliga ftl xD Onwards and upwards with WoD!!!! | ||
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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{ToT}ColmA
Japan3260 Posts
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Teoita
Italy12247 Posts
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SoleSteeler
Canada5468 Posts
On January 03 2014 21:45 akatama wrote: You are underestimating low level twinking. This is something you need to see in action. + Show Spoiler + Damn! Where can I see that guy's gear? | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10921 Posts
Low Level chars with herilooms and all the neat stuff from the AH are really a diffrent beast than one whiteout any of it (and no gold to buy decent weapons for his Level from the AH). Becoming maxlevel and not knowing your class hasn't much to do with the player being bad, it has to do with Blizzard making the leveling process too damn easy, all you need to learn is your basic spell combination (well, you could also Level whiteout it i guess)... The Eleshaman i leveled basically killed about any mob before it even reached him in "classic-cata" content... My Spriest just walked thru Wrath/Cata (ok, he had ~T5-T6 for Wrath content so that was expected, but he also just walked thru Cata whiteout any raiding gear from Wrath). I atm play a bit on some classic TBC Server (just hit lvl 66)... Leveling on Azeroth was actually "tough"... I skipped/abandoned several quests due to them just being too hard, despite being on or slightly under my Level. Now on this Server you get 4 x XP rate so that was a non-issue... With normal XP gain you actually would have to spend time in instances to get decent gear which would enable you to do the harder quests or grind comfortably... You would not run around in some Wailing Caverns/Deadmines/Whatever blues till lvl 50 because you actually needed/wanted level appropriate gear... Blue questrewards generally are only granted for doing instance or classquests, normal quest rewards, even from questchains, only grant green items (and the chains generally end in an instance quest or are so ridiculously long that they actually should drop epics of heroic quality  ...). Mind you, this is "late-Cata" so there were allready some improvements implemented to make "classic" leveling easier (spell-dmg on more low Level items and stuff like this).Heirlooms is just sugar on the candy... Wearing 3-4 parts of herilooms basically allows you to not even wear anything on all other slots. Or to put the diffrence really simple: My TBC-Ele-Shaman --> Did his first crit over 1000 at iirc lvl 57 just before going to outlands and needed to sit and drink after 2-3 Mobs, being able to buy the next quality wather felt more important than actually getting a level in my main spells :D. My Cata-Ele-Shaman --> Did his first crit over 1000 at lvl ~40 or even lower (he had about 4 heirloom parts) and generally killed everything before it reached him. I don't know if this would have changed during wrath/cata/tbc content (i highly doubt it)... I leveld him only via Herbalism and mining thru all of TBC/Wotlk/Cata and only when he hit maxlevel started using him again as something more than a farmbot. | ||
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nimbim
Germany985 Posts
However, in our raid group we have to invite random players while doing HC progression every other week, because someone is moving, working etc. This is in 10m mind you and our realm is damn empty (horde has it even worse), but we always have somebody and we have met a lot of nice+skilled players and did some HC progress with them. I'm writing this because some of the last posts here made it seem like there is no interaction with random players anymore, or that you should avoid it in any case. The number of people you meet in the game is up to you, there are enough left, even on low pop servers. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
That's all I need to say. | ||
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Serejai
6007 Posts
On January 04 2014 03:00 nimbim wrote:...there are enough left, even on low pop servers. This is simply untrue. Can you still meet people that aren't ten year old racists? Sure. It's rare, but there ARE still people out there who know how to spell and aren't homophobic. Can you still find people to raid with on low pop servers? Generally not unless your guild is really bad. I was in the server first guild on a low pop server two tiers ago. If we were missing a member for a raid, we simply had to cancel for that night. There was no replacing because nobody else on the server was even close to being geared enough to fill in. Low pop servers tend to have at most about 100 raiders total split across both factions. When I say raiders I mean people that can kill a new boss in a night. Not the bad players that get kills because they throw themselves at it two hundred times. Since my server was about 50/50, that means I had around 50 players that raided. Once you factor in that probably a quarter of them were being carried in their groups, then account for availability... there's just zero chance of you finding replacements. Guild 1 is at 6/12 heroic. Guild 2 is at 11/12 normal. Guild three is at 6/12 normal. Anyone below this point is pretty much in the "throw themselves at it two hundred times" crowd and aren't real raiders. Now, if you're guild 3 you can borrow people from 1 and 2, and if you're 2 you can borrow from 1. But nine times out of ten when you're finding a replacement you look down, not up. So, I think your assumptions are pretty far off. Sure, it's possible to find a mature, skilled player that you want to encounter again in the future. But it certainly isn't likely these days and as such when you have to choose between encountering public players and hoping to find that one in hundred that you can stand... or simply avoid them altogether; the latter is the safe choice. We can also look at this from a mathematical standpoint. According to armory parses less than 1% of players kill the final boss in a tier on normal. Based on current WoW subcription numbers NA would have about 2 million players. There are 241 NA servers. 2,000,000 / 241 = ~8,200 players per server 8,200 * 0.01 = 82 players per server that can clear a raid on normal Because the majority of servers are pretty much dead, we can safely assume that the above numbers would be valid for low pop servers, whereas medium pop servers are probably 3-4x that with high pop being 8-10x that. You also have to factor in that if you're in the top 3-10 (depending on server size) guilds on your server, a lot of people have alts and raid in multiple guilds. So, you may have three guilds that are 13/13H but in reality you don't have 30 players; you have 24-25 + some alts. Anyway, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that back in the days of TBC or early WoTLK, when servers were actually thriving and there was a legit sense of community, you could indeed find players all the time. After the introduction of LFG and the subsequent removal of communities via cross realm and LFR... it's really not worth looking for that needle in the haystack. EDIT: I should also note that my post applies to the NA servers while the quoted post applies to EU servers. It would not surprise me in the least if the EU servers were better in every way possible. | ||
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