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On November 19 2013 04:31 Grumbels wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 03:14 Disengaged wrote:
They already say that the end boss for WoD isn't an orc. Well, the final boss is not always the most relevant. If they purely want to resolve the time travel story and finish the alternate Draenor story line then the final boss needs to be the bronze dragon that is behind this plot, as far as I know. On the other hand, Gul'Dan could be a very engaging penultimate boss that will be more of an actual threat than the dragon.
Seeing how they already said that Kairoz helped Garrosh then it'd probably be him.
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On November 19 2013 05:07 micronesia wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 05:06 TheFish7 wrote:
Is 15K alot nowadays? I think I had about 15k total on all my MoP characters. I actually have no idea how much gold a BiS mail/leather armor item should sell for... except obviously the pants will be more than the belt since they require more mats/days.
It really depends on the server, but on Illidan, I see the ilvl 553 belt going anywhere from 4-6k, and the pants from 9-11k. Of course, 553 is only normal raiding ilvl (heroic warforged is 572 I think?). So yeah, 15k is a decent sum of gold.
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On November 19 2013 05:47 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 04:05 TheFish7 wrote:My history with this game defies logic: -Played Vanilla, quit around the release of Naxx 1 because college started for me and my raiding guild broke up. -Re-subbed once I realized that I had lots of free time in college. TBC released. -Quit about 8 months into TBC because no time to raid and lost interest in PvP -Re-subbed upon release of WotLK -Quit about 1 year later because WotLK raids got boring for me -Re-subbed upon release of Cata -Quit about 1 year later due to living abroad in China. -Re-subbed upon release of MoP. -Bored once again and quit after about only 4 months. And now this expac looks pretty sick, (making outland/draenor what it should have been in the first place??) Many more expansions are lined up now. How long will this continue? How many more expacs until this cycle completes? When will Blizzard release me from this MADNESS?!? P.S. Gul'dan is the best character in the Warcraft multiverse hehehehe i played from vanilla straight up until WOTLK, hit 80 and just kinda...hung out. Quit for a few months and came back when Trial of the Crusader came out. Played till cata release, quit 3 days after i hit 85. Came back for ZA/ZG re-release and got all epic gear(even if it was crap epics) and quit. Finally came back last week and hit 90. And while Im not "loving" mists, its okay and its nice to have a game to chill out and play while I watch streams/movies. Previous was swtor but im kind of strating to get burnt out on it. Was pretty fun though watching home story cup while grinding out some levels on my shaman. That said my biggest absolute biggest gripe is pandas still look out of place as hell(i guess ill just learn to deal with it and its more that they don't look much of anything like their wc3 counter parts.) and the lack of skills. I wish they'd revert it back to what it was. Granted there were a lot of abilities but I felt infinitely more powerful and my rotations got all screwed up(like deathcoil->immolate->conflag->shadowfury->fear->immolate/dots.) Personally I think they're taking the dumbed down parts too far in some areas like skill removal and taking out reforge and not enough in other areas(finally glad to see hit/expertise removed).
I guess there are lots of people with the same experience. I tried SWTOR for a while but got bored of that one pretty quick. Playing FF14 now but I'm not having the same amount of fun I had as back in the FF11 days. It's ironic how I swore off WoW because it was becoming too casual and I felt it was wasting my time, but now that I'm older and have very structured free time, all I really want to do is waste time, so the direction the game has taken appeals to me.
The Pandas are pretty silly but I can deal with that. I really do still wish the old talent trees were somehow still in and there was more opportunity for open-world or solo farming/questing for end-game epics. Farming for frayed abomination stitchings and a pristine hide of the beast (but only after getting the reqd skinning skill items) is my fondest memory of vanilla. IT scares me what I see on the forums, people complaining about not being able to fly from 90-99, complaining about "too many quests". Too much carebear attitude there for my tastes, to me its about the journey and the struggle, not what you do in the end game. On the other hand I agree that expertise and reforging was needlessly complicated for what it was supposed to be, and some simplification of the many many things that have started to clutter up the game (literally in the case of inventory) is probably good overall.
On November 19 2013 05:47 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 05:06 TheFish7 wrote:
Is 15K alot nowadays? I think I had about 15k total on all my MoP characters.
So, with the item squish, does that mean EVERYTHING is getting re-balanced? Will HP bars continue to say 192,000K? Will we still travel to the "old" outland at 70 to level (the most boring zones for leveling imo)
I have this weird thing I do where every new expac I level up a new character from scratch, in this way my account has 3 level 70s, a level 80, 2 level 85s, and a level 87 (my mop character didn't make it all the way). I suppose it will be easier since all the hand-me-down bonus xp items are account wide now, but how bloody long will it take to go from 1-100? Also I am going to have to finish getting my 87 to 90 because OCD, and then start a new one to get to 100. 500.000 HP in MoP -> 30939 HP at WOD was the example blizzard gave. Also if you're just straight leveling from 1 to 100 a long....time. I mean it may take a lot less time then going from 1-70 back in the day, but it'll be a pretty decent chunk of time invested. If you use your 1 free insta level to 90 thing, not long at all. I personally used one offer they have now when i reactivated my second account and got an instant bump to 80 on 1 char, it took me all of 20 hours to go to 85. And it'll take me probably another 25 hours or so to get to 90. So probably something similar to a couple days.
Ah that is very significant, awesome. I guess you have like, what, 14 hit points at level 10? Much needed change. Actually the time it takes to level doesn't bug me too much, since theres so much to do along the way and leveling to me is the fun part. Whatever it is it will almost certainly take less than the 300+ hours it took to go from 1-60 in vanilla.
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Leveling is a joke now with the add-ons, you can get more out of your circuits with no additional work even if you don't know the zones. If you do a little planning, you can get even more.
I remember planning out quest turn-ins in Vanilla to min/max everything, took me around 12 days to go from 1-60, think the best runs were around 8 days depending on luck and server. I wouldn't be concerned with the leveling in the expansions.
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United States24805 Posts
Well if you are leveling right when the expansion comes out, you won't really have anything to aid you, right? For those who wait to level there will be plenty available, however.
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On November 19 2013 08:07 micronesia wrote:
Well if you are leveling right when the expansion comes out, you won't really have anything to aid you, right? For those who wait to level there will be plenty available, however.
Beta will ensure all the addons are out there already upon release.
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In my opinion, what they should do is remove the item gap that is caused by the level 60,70,80,85 endgame. For instance, the reason that the green items you get at the start of outlands are so good is that they have to make sure that there is a level playing field even if there are people with epics from naxxramas. Which doesn't exist anymore, so I think they could remove the gap so that the greens you get in outlands are not so superior. And obviously rebalance the content, which I'll assume is easy for them.
Another thing they could do is to remove some of the exponential growth in items. Like an item with ilvl 50 is x times as strong as one of level 45 and is x*x times as strong as one of level 40, which means the stats grow very quickly. They could make the growth a bit more linear for the content up to level 85, leaving MoP and WoD with the current system.
(if that makes sense)
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Italy12248 Posts
I get the feeling that's what they are doing.
All we know so far of the item reduction thing is that at max level characters are weaker, but none knows how things work as we level up.
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![[image loading]](http://www.blogcdn.com/wow.joystiq.com/media/2013/11/warlock-of-draenor.jpg)
rofl
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On November 19 2013 08:20 Stancel wrote:rofl
lol what sparked that tweet?
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On November 19 2013 08:20 Teoita wrote:
I get the feeling that's what they are doing.
All we know so far of the item reduction thing is that at max level characters are weaker, but none knows how things work as we level up.
There's been a lot of argument that I've read on other forums about the issues that a reduction of power creates. The biggest problem that could theoretically happen (again, all conjecture), is that scaling back items exponentially has the side effect of making old content more difficult relative to the current system. With the item squish at level 100, the relative power that we have fighting a level 60 mob is much smaller than what we have now.
Blizz did say in the press release that they want old content to be solo'd, so one workaround to this would be something like the heroic dungeon buff that we currently get. However, world elites and world bosses would probably be unaffected by this, unless a buff like that can extend out in the world.
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On November 19 2013 09:46 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 08:20 Teoita wrote:
I get the feeling that's what they are doing.
All we know so far of the item reduction thing is that at max level characters are weaker, but none knows how things work as we level up. There's been a lot of argument that I've read on other forums about the issues that a reduction of power creates. The biggest problem that could theoretically happen (again, all conjecture), is that scaling back items exponentially has the side effect of making old content more difficult relative to the current system. With the item squish at level 100, the relative power that we have fighting a level 60 mob is much smaller than what we have now. Blizz did say in the press release that they want old content to be solo'd, so one workaround to this would be something like the heroic dungeon buff that we currently get. However, world elites and world bosses would probably be unaffected by this, unless a buff like that can extend out in the world.
We will still be able to solo old content being heroic dungeons and raids. Our relative power isn't going to change. Lets say if it takes you 5-10 seconds to kill a boss in Black Temple then it will still take you 5-10 seconds to kill that boss. The only thing that changes are the numbers not our relative power.
They even gave an example of a mob on Timeless Isle. If it takes you 5 seconds to kill a gulp frog then it will still take you 5 seconds after the squish.
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I'm actually pretty interested, which I haven't been since...idk Wrath probably. I've always come back when each expansion hits just to level to max level and see the content, but this time I'm pretty excited.
I don't think I saw a single bad change/idea at blizzcon, besides maybe scrapping 10H, but that doesn't affect me personally so whatever.
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On November 19 2013 09:51 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 09:46 Qaatar wrote:On November 19 2013 08:20 Teoita wrote:
I get the feeling that's what they are doing.
All we know so far of the item reduction thing is that at max level characters are weaker, but none knows how things work as we level up. There's been a lot of argument that I've read on other forums about the issues that a reduction of power creates. The biggest problem that could theoretically happen (again, all conjecture), is that scaling back items exponentially has the side effect of making old content more difficult relative to the current system. With the item squish at level 100, the relative power that we have fighting a level 60 mob is much smaller than what we have now. Blizz did say in the press release that they want old content to be solo'd, so one workaround to this would be something like the heroic dungeon buff that we currently get. However, world elites and world bosses would probably be unaffected by this, unless a buff like that can extend out in the world. We will still be able to solo old content being heroic dungeons and raids. Our relative power isn't going to change. Lets say if it takes you 5-10 seconds to kill a boss in Black Temple then it will still take you 5-10 seconds to kill that boss. The only thing that changes are the numbers not our relative power. They even gave an example of a mob on Timeless Isle. If it takes you 5 seconds to kill a gulp frog then it will still take you 5 seconds after the squish.
So they're just going to divide all numbers in the game by ~15 or something? It doesn't seem like a good long-term solution, since they would run into the same issue next expansion.
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On November 19 2013 09:51 Disengaged wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 09:46 Qaatar wrote:On November 19 2013 08:20 Teoita wrote:
I get the feeling that's what they are doing.
All we know so far of the item reduction thing is that at max level characters are weaker, but none knows how things work as we level up. There's been a lot of argument that I've read on other forums about the issues that a reduction of power creates. The biggest problem that could theoretically happen (again, all conjecture), is that scaling back items exponentially has the side effect of making old content more difficult relative to the current system. With the item squish at level 100, the relative power that we have fighting a level 60 mob is much smaller than what we have now. Blizz did say in the press release that they want old content to be solo'd, so one workaround to this would be something like the heroic dungeon buff that we currently get. However, world elites and world bosses would probably be unaffected by this, unless a buff like that can extend out in the world. We will still be able to solo old content being heroic dungeons and raids. Our relative power isn't going to change. Lets say if it takes you 5-10 seconds to kill a boss in Black Temple then it will still take you 5-10 seconds to kill that boss. The only thing that changes are the numbers not our relative power. They even gave an example of a mob on Timeless Isle. If it takes you 5 seconds to kill a gulp frog then it will still take you 5 seconds after the squish.
That's how it would seem, but it doesn't make sense, unless the scaling back isn't constant. For example, there's a huge jump in relative power of characters from 80 to 85, and even larger from 85-90. Conversely, the relative jump in power from 60 to 70 isn't nearly as large. If all they do is cut a few 0's from the system, then the relative power issue will actually become an issue purely due to mathematics.
That's what makes me think that either they're going to scale each and every mob individually (very painstaking process), or there's some other process that I can't think of right now.
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On November 19 2013 10:13 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 09:51 Disengaged wrote:On November 19 2013 09:46 Qaatar wrote:On November 19 2013 08:20 Teoita wrote:
I get the feeling that's what they are doing.
All we know so far of the item reduction thing is that at max level characters are weaker, but none knows how things work as we level up. There's been a lot of argument that I've read on other forums about the issues that a reduction of power creates. The biggest problem that could theoretically happen (again, all conjecture), is that scaling back items exponentially has the side effect of making old content more difficult relative to the current system. With the item squish at level 100, the relative power that we have fighting a level 60 mob is much smaller than what we have now. Blizz did say in the press release that they want old content to be solo'd, so one workaround to this would be something like the heroic dungeon buff that we currently get. However, world elites and world bosses would probably be unaffected by this, unless a buff like that can extend out in the world. We will still be able to solo old content being heroic dungeons and raids. Our relative power isn't going to change. Lets say if it takes you 5-10 seconds to kill a boss in Black Temple then it will still take you 5-10 seconds to kill that boss. The only thing that changes are the numbers not our relative power. They even gave an example of a mob on Timeless Isle. If it takes you 5 seconds to kill a gulp frog then it will still take you 5 seconds after the squish. That's how it would seem, but it doesn't make sense, unless the scaling back isn't constant. For example, there's a huge jump in relative power of characters from 80 to 85, and even larger from 85-90. Conversely, the relative jump in power from 60 to 70 isn't nearly as large. If all they do is cut a few 0's from the system, then the relative power issue will actually become an issue purely due to mathematics. That's what makes me think that either they're going to scale each and every mob individually (very painstaking process), or there's some other process that I can't think of right now.
I don't know how they are gonna do it but they are gonna have to do something. They said it themselves that there is only so much their system can take on calculating all the high ass numbers. Theres a reason they had Garrosh heal like 3-4 times.
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Yeah, I'm all for smaller numbers as well. I'm just curious as to how they will do this. If they don't go back and change all the mobs individually in accord to the power scaling algorithms of each expansion, then we inevitably will see certain low level mobs that are extremely easy to kill right now, become much more difficult at level 100.
I'm actually fine with that (group content should be group content no matter what level it is, imo), but I'm pretty sure some won't be.
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United States24805 Posts
What is the state of solo'ing content right now? I have solo'd all dungeons and raids that are still available (as of say, 5.4) from classic wow and burning crusade. I have solo'd all WOTLK dungeons and am currently doing as much of the raid content as possible. Is it possible to solo all 25 man raids in WOTLK? What about the heroic 25s? Can any cata dungeons be solo'd? I'm guessing it's not possible to solo cata raids for the most part (maybe the easiest 10 man with trickery with the right class?) One thing I would look forward to with the expansion is the ability to solo more content that I currently can't reasonably solo.
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On November 19 2013 10:13 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 19 2013 09:51 Disengaged wrote:On November 19 2013 09:46 Qaatar wrote:On November 19 2013 08:20 Teoita wrote:
I get the feeling that's what they are doing.
All we know so far of the item reduction thing is that at max level characters are weaker, but none knows how things work as we level up. There's been a lot of argument that I've read on other forums about the issues that a reduction of power creates. The biggest problem that could theoretically happen (again, all conjecture), is that scaling back items exponentially has the side effect of making old content more difficult relative to the current system. With the item squish at level 100, the relative power that we have fighting a level 60 mob is much smaller than what we have now. Blizz did say in the press release that they want old content to be solo'd, so one workaround to this would be something like the heroic dungeon buff that we currently get. However, world elites and world bosses would probably be unaffected by this, unless a buff like that can extend out in the world. We will still be able to solo old content being heroic dungeons and raids. Our relative power isn't going to change. Lets say if it takes you 5-10 seconds to kill a boss in Black Temple then it will still take you 5-10 seconds to kill that boss. The only thing that changes are the numbers not our relative power. They even gave an example of a mob on Timeless Isle. If it takes you 5 seconds to kill a gulp frog then it will still take you 5 seconds after the squish. That's how it would seem, but it doesn't make sense, unless the scaling back isn't constant. For example, there's a huge jump in relative power of characters from 80 to 85, and even larger from 85-90. Conversely, the relative jump in power from 60 to 70 isn't nearly as large. If all they do is cut a few 0's from the system, then the relative power issue will actually become an issue purely due to mathematics. That's what makes me think that either they're going to scale each and every mob individually (very painstaking process), or there's some other process that I can't think of right now.
I think Blizzard has some automated capabilities to balance all classes and specs for all gear and character levels. So even with item squish they can just generate a new set of values and it doesn't require them to manually change everything, even though it probably would benefit from some manual tinkering.
Also, I think it's very stupid that as a level 90 character you can walk into Serpentshrine Cavern and have nothing pose a challenge to you. I wouldn't mind if that capability was gone, so that you would need like three people instead.
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On November 19 2013 10:34 micronesia wrote:
What is the state of solo'ing content right now? I have solo'd all dungeons and raids that are still available (as of say, 5.4) from classic wow and burning crusade. I have solo'd all WOTLK dungeons and am currently doing as much of the raid content as possible. Is it possible to solo all 25 man raids in WOTLK? What about the heroic 25s? Can any cata dungeons be solo'd? I'm guessing it's not possible to solo cata raids for the most part (maybe the easiest 10 man with trickery with the right class?) One thing I would look forward to with the expansion is the ability to solo more content that I currently can't reasonably solo.
Yeah, it does depend on class. I think for the most part, if you're in full heroic raiding gear (I'm talking 570+ ilvl, 600k+ hp unbuffed), you should be able to solo all content as any class, up to maybe certain bosses in 25 man heroic LK. In fact, I'm pretty sure LK 25 heroic is harder to solo than some heroic Cata dungeons.
Of course, I'm willing to bet that a hunter and maybe certain tanks like blood DK's or warriors due to second wind can solo even more than that.
edit: a few bosses in 25-man Ulduar can also be a pain. Thorim in particular is difficult for any class due to the mechanics of the fight.
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EPT
