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While BGs certainly hurt world PvP a lot, causing most of the ACTUAL competent PvPers to grind BGs for weekly honor caps, it didn't really kill it.
A combination of flying, zone architecture, and cross realm bgs killed it. Being capable of flying directly into raid zones bypassing contention areas such as BRM or AQ20/AQ40 left little opportunity for world pvp. Also, taking things out such as tubers and NDBs made less opportunity for player interactions over limited resources.
I'm actually very glad Blizzard is trying something new this expansion with at least gating flying. Hopefully they make it 'rare' rather than everyone being able to fly 3 weeks into the expansion. Sadly I think the damage is already done and the average player would be extremely unhappy to be unable to fly now.
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Large scale world PvP died a few months into what is now a 9-year old game. While all those things hastened its death, I don't think it would've lasted as it was for 9 years even if Blizzard didn't change anything. At the time, WoW was attracting plenty of new players who were still leveling from 1-60. Those SS vs TM battles were a nice change of pace from what is the longest leveling grind that WoW had to offer. As more and more people hit max level, they started doing max level stuff and there just weren't enough new players leveling in those areas to start the huge battles. It had the feel of a short term diversion.
Life just happened to many of the players from WoW's early days. Plenty of the hardcore players went more casual and quit. For example, sometime around late TBC to early WotLK, plenty of the top US guilds went from around 20ish hours of raiding to 10ish.
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On November 11 2013 18:19 Pandemona wrote:So as everyone keeps asking and no one is making.....
Lets Make A Player List!
For both EU and NA, just write down your battle tag if you want people to play with. Remember this is for Warlords of Draenor specifically, not just Panda land, only post if you will be getting WoDThree things i need; 1. Battletag 2. Faction 3. NA/EUWith Cross Realm now all you need to be is on a server and be either Horde or Alliance and you can group with anybody in the game 
Example;
Pandemon - Panda#2710 - Europe - Horde
Europe List+ Show Spoiler +
Team Liquid Username - BattleTag - Server - Faction
Pandemona - Panda#2710 - Europe - Horde - [Twisting Nether]
Akatama - Sphinx#2651 - Europe - Horde - [Draenor]
FFW_Rude - FFW#2606 - Europe - Alliance - [Rashgaroth[FR]]
Siggen - Siggen#2894 - Europe - Horde - [The Maelstrom]
Wintex - Wintex#2278 - Europe - Alliance Horde - [Twilight's Hammer / Defias Brotherhood]
Baituri - Baituri#2727 - Europe - Horde - [Draenor]
Team Liquid Username - BattleTag - Server - Faction
farvacola - Tren#1762 - Alliance - NA (Akama)
softee - softee#1275 - Alliance - NA [Kil'Jaeden]
Stancel - Stancel#6869 Alliance - NA [Caelestrasz]
Digmouse - digmouse#1608 Alliance - NA [Aerie Peak]
Bluelightz - Matth34#1980 Alliance - NA [Nagrand]
psyq - Mitchoi#6843 Horde - NA - (Area 52)
nikj -lovemuffinz#1108 Horde - NA (Ner'Zhul)
Bashnek - Bash#6746 Horde - NA [Blackrock]
Qaatar - Qaatar#1840 Horde - NA [Illidan]
I mostly play with a buddy of mine who can't really play until winter break. Definitely will be getting WoD. Just leveled a mage to 90, and will probably be playing that for the foreseeable future. I also have a 520+ priest.
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On November 15 2013 02:51 Nausea wrote:Show nested quote +On November 15 2013 02:31 Grumbels wrote:
I'm wondering how Blizzard actually could have avoided the mess they are in now, where they seemingly have run out of valid options to take the story to.
Dealing with the threat of the Burning Legion in the first expansion was a natural choice, the Warcraft 3 story was still fresh in people's memory and there was even a class that was directly to demons (the warlock). Demonic influence was rife in Azeroth, with many zones having quest lines focusing on the threat of portals or summoners or fel corruption.
Then the next expansion relates to Arthas in Northrend. Again, a perfectly natural way to develop the world, because it resolves the story line of a known lore figure (and undead were an existing theme/opponent that players were familiar with).
But cataclysm is just a mismatch of various unrelated things and pandaria is a completely new invention. And Warlords of Draenor seems like they have given up on progressing the story to instead just do fan service.
I don't understand why they never did a Maelstrom expansion. Azshara is maybe not as iconic as Arthas, but still... I don't think they are running out of ideas. I think they seriously just wanted to explore Draenor and show it off. And this expansion will lead on to the next one. And they can't keep killing off the biggest bad guys in the old lore or we will end up with nothing left. So instead they try to create new ones that they keep for later so it will feel like a bigger reward killing them later. They don't have a rts game they can create bad guys in. Wrathion and Sylvanas are good examples of future bad guys.
From what I understand, Sargeras should be the "final boss" of the WoW universe. If WoW does eventually come to an end, I can't see anyone else but Sargeras as the final boss, provided that Blizz does abide by banal story tropes of most other fiction. Of course, given that this is an MMO, Blizz can easily do some DBZ-style retconning by introducing XYZ with power-level 9 trillion after Sargeras.
The only problem I have is that I don't think many know who he is, or particularly care even if they do. This is a problem some have stated in the past, when discussing prominent reasons why Cataclysm (and Mop in particular) suffered. When the Lich King story ended, it also essentially ended the story arc for Warcraft 3. It seemed like everyone knew who Arthas was, and his story is arguably the most famous in Warcraft lore, due in no small part to War 3, and just the general build-up in the game from Classic through TBC. Everyone knew who the Lich King is. When Cata came around, while some might remember Deathwing from War 2, there's no comparison in the fame between the two final bosses of each respective expansion.
Sargeras probably suffers even more from this problem, because I don't think he's appeared in any game, his name has since been 'forgotten' both in-game and in the player base, and the burning legion is definitely more known for Archimonde, KJ, and Illidan.
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I like that they don't want to give away who the final boss will be (and no it will not be a orc). This should make for a good experience and probably a nice story development over the course of the expansion. I would bet we end it against the burning legion and that leads into the next expansion.
I wonder tho, who from burning legion we would face off with? Will it maybe be Kil'jaeden in his full form? Mannoroth? Both?
And I wonder how this would work since I guess these would be separate copies of them from this alternate timeline. I guess this could be used as an argument for this expansion not ending with the burning legion, but I wonder then what would continue over to the next expansion.
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Gul'Dan is one of my favourite characters in any Blizzard universe. I read and re-read the War2 manual over and over as a kid. Pretty excited for WoD!
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On November 18 2013 20:44 SoleSteeler wrote:
Gul'Dan is one of my favourite characters in any Blizzard universe. I read and re-read the War2 manual over and over as a kid. Pretty excited for WoD!
http://www.wowwiki.com/Warcraft_II_manual it's fun to read, with a seemingly higher level of literary quality than your typical Blizzard product. These days I can hardly believe that it was written by Chris Metzen.
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They already say that the end boss for WoD isn't an orc.
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My history with this game defies logic:
-Played Vanilla, quit around the release of Naxx 1 because college started for me and my raiding guild broke up.
-Re-subbed once I realized that I had lots of free time in college. TBC released.
-Quit about 8 months into TBC because no time to raid and lost interest in PvP
-Re-subbed upon release of WotLK
-Quit about 1 year later because WotLK raids got boring for me
-Re-subbed upon release of Cata
-Quit about 1 year later due to living abroad in China.
-Re-subbed upon release of MoP.
-Bored once again and quit after about only 4 months.
And now this expac looks pretty sick, (making outland/draenor what it should have been in the first place??)
Many more expansions are lined up now.
How long will this continue? How many more expacs until this cycle completes? When will Blizzard release me from this MADNESS?!?
P.S. Gul'dan is the best character in the Warcraft multiverse
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Italy12248 Posts
On November 19 2013 04:05 TheFish7 wrote:
When will Blizzard release us from this MADNESS?!?
Fixed. Also never.
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Nono, they'll release you when Titan comes out. 
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On November 19 2013 03:14 Disengaged wrote:
They already say that the end boss for WoD isn't an orc.
Well, the final boss is not always the most relevant. If they purely want to resolve the time travel story and finish the alternate Draenor story line then the final boss needs to be the bronze dragon that is behind this plot, as far as I know. On the other hand, Gul'Dan could be a very engaging penultimate boss that will be more of an actual threat than the dragon.
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I spent like 4 hours alone on mining ghost iron yesterday. There is no hope for me.
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On November 19 2013 04:33 farvacola wrote:
I spent like 4 hours alone on mining ghost iron yesterday. There is no hope for me.
You should be proud of yourself for contributing to the global economy and for your hard work.
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United States24805 Posts
What should I do with all the hardened magnificent hides I'm making? I already made myself the two BiS items for my hunter. Should I just sell an armor piece for like 15k?
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Yeah I'd say that's your best bet, I'm not sure there's any reason to hold onto them.
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Is 15K alot nowadays? I think I had about 15k total on all my MoP characters.
So, with the item squish, does that mean EVERYTHING is getting re-balanced? Will HP bars continue to say 192,000K? Will we still travel to the "old" outland at 70 to level (the most boring zones for leveling imo)
I have this weird thing I do where every new expac I level up a new character from scratch, in this way my account has 3 level 70s, a level 80, 2 level 85s, and a level 87 (my mop character didn't make it all the way). I suppose it will be easier since all the hand-me-down bonus xp items are account wide now, but how bloody long will it take to go from 1-100? Also I am going to have to finish getting my 87 to 90 because OCD, and then start a new one to get to 100.
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United States24805 Posts
On November 19 2013 05:06 TheFish7 wrote:
Is 15K alot nowadays? I think I had about 15k total on all my MoP characters. I actually have no idea how much gold a BiS mail/leather armor item should sell for... except obviously the pants will be more than the belt since they require more mats/days.
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On November 19 2013 04:05 TheFish7 wrote:My history with this game defies logic: -Played Vanilla, quit around the release of Naxx 1 because college started for me and my raiding guild broke up. -Re-subbed once I realized that I had lots of free time in college. TBC released. -Quit about 8 months into TBC because no time to raid and lost interest in PvP -Re-subbed upon release of WotLK -Quit about 1 year later because WotLK raids got boring for me -Re-subbed upon release of Cata -Quit about 1 year later due to living abroad in China. -Re-subbed upon release of MoP. -Bored once again and quit after about only 4 months. And now this expac looks pretty sick, (making outland/draenor what it should have been in the first place??) How long will this continue? How many more expacs until this cycle completes? When will Blizzard release me from this MADNESS?!? P.S. Gul'dan is the best character in the Warcraft multiverse
hehehehe i played from vanilla straight up until WOTLK, hit 80 and just kinda...hung out. Quit for a few months and came back when Trial of the Crusader came out. Played till cata release, quit 3 days after i hit 85. Came back for ZA/ZG re-release and got all epic gear(even if it was crap epics) and quit. Finally came back last week and hit 90. And while Im not "loving" mists, its okay and its nice to have a game to chill out and play while I watch streams/movies. Previous was swtor but im kind of strating to get burnt out on it. Was pretty fun though watching home story cup while grinding out some levels on my shaman.
That said my biggest absolute biggest gripe is pandas still look out of place as hell(i guess ill just learn to deal with it and its more that they don't look much of anything like their wc3 counter parts.) and the lack of skills. I wish they'd revert it back to what it was. Granted there were a lot of abilities but I felt infinitely more powerful and my rotations got all screwed up(like deathcoil->immolate->conflag->shadowfury->fear->immolate/dots.) Personally I think they're taking the dumbed down parts too far in some areas like skill removal and taking out reforge and not enough in other areas(finally glad to see hit/expertise removed).
On November 19 2013 05:06 TheFish7 wrote:
Is 15K alot nowadays? I think I had about 15k total on all my MoP characters.
So, with the item squish, does that mean EVERYTHING is getting re-balanced? Will HP bars continue to say 192,000K? Will we still travel to the "old" outland at 70 to level (the most boring zones for leveling imo)
I have this weird thing I do where every new expac I level up a new character from scratch, in this way my account has 3 level 70s, a level 80, 2 level 85s, and a level 87 (my mop character didn't make it all the way). I suppose it will be easier since all the hand-me-down bonus xp items are account wide now, but how bloody long will it take to go from 1-100? Also I am going to have to finish getting my 87 to 90 because OCD, and then start a new one to get to 100.
500.000 HP in MoP -> 30939 HP at WOD was the example blizzard gave. Also if you're just straight leveling from 1 to 100 a long....time. I mean it may take a lot less time then going from 1-70 back in the day, but it'll be a pretty decent chunk of time invested. If you use your 1 free insta level to 90 thing, not long at all. I personally used one offer they have now when i reactivated my second account and got an instant bump to 80 on 1 char, it took me all of 20 hours to go to 85. And it'll take me probably another 25 hours or so to get to 90. So probably something similar to a couple days.
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EPT
