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On November 22 2024 13:01 CicadaSC wrote:
does anything beat pala + bloodmage + rifle + priest in the midgame? wow!
What race are you?
I'm UD and it can be beaten with DL+ghouls with carrion swarm spam (lvl2) or Lich first, 2 lvl nova ghouls.
If it draggs to lategame Aboms+fiend+statue+destros.
Orc beats it with FS+SH chain/stomp combo.
It's crucial to keep paladin under level 3 as long as possible and try attacking 2 targets so Pala can't heal both.
Never hero focus unless Paladin is exposed.
I recently returned after 15 years of SC2 and CS but my MMR isn't terrible (aroubd 5.3), so I hope I can help a bit.
I can't say for elf but I guess bears stomps it if you defend until t3
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On November 21 2024 14:39 CicadaSC wrote:
question: what are the signs an orc is going Taurens without actually seeing the taurens on the field. Like what is the tech or building? I keep going gryphons to counter it too late and getting rolled over lol
Tauren are now produced from the same building as Walkers - tauren totem.
Usual sign would be skipping beastiary as one base orc can't support going 3 production facility + t3 without expo.
Without beastiary and ensnare you should get 3 sorc and spam bolt on units, dispell spirit link and try to level up MK or 2nd hero.
Orc has batriders, riders and sick orb so avoid going Gryphons unless you have expo and upgrades (+2 armor and inner fire with pala).
Knights are good vs taurens, also go for sorc master upgrade and try to spam polymorph on taurens. Orc's dispell is terrible and you have brilliance aura to outlast it in the lategame.
If you are in doubt about expo, upgrade Magic Sentry from arcane sanctum and use towers to reveal and now and then so you are up with orc
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Is warcraft 3 more popular than SC2 now?
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I think almost exclusively due to the recent effort by Grubby to onboard a lot of popular mainstream/variety streamers into the game after meeting and interacting with them during his WoW stint.
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Northern Ireland26194 Posts
On March 07 2025 01:12 cha0 wrote:
I think almost exclusively due to the recent effort by Grubby to onboard a lot of popular mainstream/variety streamers into the game after meeting and interacting with them during his WoW stint.
The sad part is that if Reforged wasn’t shit to begin with, you could have had this years ago.
Yeah a Grubby could have boosted things further, but there were potential audiences just shredded with that launch fiasco. WoW fiends interested in the setting and the previous lore, players of games like SC2 who were burned out on those games etc.
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Northern Ireland26194 Posts
On March 07 2025 03:10 htrdfsda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2025 01:56 WombaT wrote:On March 07 2025 01:12 cha0 wrote:
I think almost exclusively due to the recent effort by Grubby to onboard a lot of popular mainstream/variety streamers into the game after meeting and interacting with them during his WoW stint. The sad part is that if Reforged wasn’t shit to begin with, you could have had this years ago. Yeah a Grubby could have boosted things further, but there were potential audiences just shredded with that launch fiasco. WoW fiends interested in the setting and the previous lore, players of games like SC2 who were burned out on those games etc. Grubby was always popular with Warcraft 3. Original and release reforged. So was Back2Warcraft. The game was still playable. And as the guy already said: World of Warcraft is the real driving force here, Hard to imagine, eh? Always remember: League of Legends was garbage in its early years (Or maybe still is). Didnt stop people from playing it
For OGs like me, it lacked a bunch of features the original game had.
For SC2 (or players from other games) players seeking a new challenge, it didn’t launch with a working ladder.
This is just hardcore cope.
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Warcraft 3 reforged was so bad, instead of boosting it, it damn near killed the remaining scene.
Trying to say anything else is very rose tinted. They did some neat things since and seem kinda interested to turn the ship around but the damage was done.
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Grubby is even playing Heroes of the Storm again. Quite a trip down memory lane
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On March 07 2025 18:47 htrdfsda wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2025 16:14 Velr wrote:
Warcraft 3 reforged was so bad, instead of boosting it, it damn near nearly killed the remaining scene.
Trying to say anything else is very rose tinted. They did some neat things since and seem kinda interested to turn the ship around but the damage was done. Bullshit. They still had their tournament scene going on. Back2Warcraft were streaming for +1000. Grubby, Tod, Happy have their audience. How big do you think the scene was? The game was good enough for them
Actually it peaked in 2020 (release of Reforged) with a big drop after and then had a steady decline down until mid 2024. Since then it goes slightly up with an incredible peak end of Feb, beginning of March 2025
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Northern Ireland26194 Posts
I love how the game was ‘good enough’ for Grubby even though he made YouTube content slamming it on multiple occasions.
WC3 is still a great game, Reforged absolutely was not, and was a huge missed opportunity.
I can only speak for myself, some of my local SC2 scene. Plenty of people who’d not really experienced WC3 and were burned out on SC2 were gonna switch and give it a shot. But they all refunded because of basic missing things, such as a ladder.
Frustrating, it was the one time a bunch of us were enthused on all switching to a game at once. Since then it’s sorta been a mix, some went to AoE games, some kept with SC, some went dormant waiting to see how Stormgate or Zerospace shape up. Some don’t much play RTS
On the plus side, I think it’s shaping up pretty decent. There’s more I’d like to see, but the core is there. If it had launched in this state, I think it would have been broadly good enough as a product and got more traction.
Plus the community is great, arguably greater than it needed to be,
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United States12240 Posts
On March 07 2025 23:27 WombaT wrote:
I love how the game was ‘good enough’ for Grubby even though he made YouTube content slamming it on multiple occasions.
WC3 is still a great game, Reforged absolutely was not, and was a huge missed opportunity.
I can only speak for myself, some of my local SC2 scene. Plenty of people who’d not really experienced WC3 and were burned out on SC2 were gonna switch and give it a shot. But they all refunded because of basic missing things, such as a ladder.
Frustrating, it was the one time a bunch of us were enthused on all switching to a game at once. Since then it’s sorta been a mix, some went to AoE games, some kept with SC, some went dormant waiting to see how Stormgate or Zerospace shape up. Some don’t much play RTS
On the plus side, I think it’s shaping up pretty decent. There’s more I’d like to see, but the core is there. If it had launched in this state, I think it would have been broadly good enough as a product and got more traction.
Plus the community is great, arguably greater than it needed to be,
'Good enough' is pulling a lot of weight there, because he almost immediately switched back to Classic graphics (as did every other pro player, not just for unit clarity but to avoid sound and animation bugs, crashes, and to play at 8x the framerate). The lack of ladder was particularly frustrating because it meant he had to create content like "can I go 100-0?" It wasn't until W3Champions was created some months later to fill the void that there was a real opportunity to have viewers witness meaningful skill progression, and more importantly, have the pro and tournament community invested to create high-quality games.
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Northern Ireland26194 Posts
On March 07 2025 23:57 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 07 2025 23:27 WombaT wrote:
I love how the game was ‘good enough’ for Grubby even though he made YouTube content slamming it on multiple occasions.
WC3 is still a great game, Reforged absolutely was not, and was a huge missed opportunity.
I can only speak for myself, some of my local SC2 scene. Plenty of people who’d not really experienced WC3 and were burned out on SC2 were gonna switch and give it a shot. But they all refunded because of basic missing things, such as a ladder.
Frustrating, it was the one time a bunch of us were enthused on all switching to a game at once. Since then it’s sorta been a mix, some went to AoE games, some kept with SC, some went dormant waiting to see how Stormgate or Zerospace shape up. Some don’t much play RTS
On the plus side, I think it’s shaping up pretty decent. There’s more I’d like to see, but the core is there. If it had launched in this state, I think it would have been broadly good enough as a product and got more traction.
Plus the community is great, arguably greater than it needed to be, 'Good enough' is pulling a lot of weight there, because he almost immediately switched back to Classic graphics (as did every other pro player, not just for unit clarity but to avoid sound and animation bugs, crashes, and to play at 8x the framerate). The lack of ladder was particularly frustrating because it meant he had to create content like "can I go 100-0?" It wasn't until W3Champions was created some months later to fill the void that there was a real opportunity to have viewers witness meaningful skill progression, and more importantly, have the pro and tournament community invested to create high-quality games.
Oh agreed, was referencing our departed friend’s assertion that it was ‘good enough’, not making the observation myself
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On March 08 2025 02:48 bongviptel wrote:
da
DA? Defense of the Ancients? What about it?
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Yea some people here definitely have a very muddled memory of the Reforged launch and first year of it. Yes B2W was still doing well and China was still hosting tournaments but Reforged itself had nothing to do with that - in fact I think if there was no Reforged it probably would have ended up thriving more.
On Grubby - he was extremely vocal about how much of a disappointment Reforged was not only on launch, but for many following months during which he was attempting to communicate and work with Blizzard to make it better(Which he mentioned by the way that he was completely ignored throughout). In fact the Reforged launch saga was so bad that it eventually drove Grubby away from WC3 and to try AoE4. https://www.reddit.com/r/WC3/comments/qw8hu6/grubby_is_stepping_down_from_wc3_at_least_for_now/
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Yeah WC3 reforged was worse for everyone.
People nostalgic for the campaign were basically rugpulled on rework or improvement there.
Graphic reworks were pretty unanimously panned.
Competitive multiplayer people were offered nothing in the way of ladder.
...I assume WC3 custom map players also got hosed, or did popular WC3 maps actually survive reforged?
In any case reforged was pretty objectively terrible. They put it in the furnace for a while and tried to sell it back to people, slightly melted and misshapen.
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EPT
