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On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy.
mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things?
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On November 17 2024 16:04 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy. mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things?
Brilliance Aura is an archmage (mage hero) skill that regens mana faster for all friendly units. thats why AM is played 1st in most of the games
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Northern Ireland24006 Posts
On November 17 2024 16:04 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy. mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things?
Human’s basic gameplan in most matchups is fast expand. Militia + Archmage summons + the ability to fast build help get those spots creeped and an expo up.
Much more so IMO than SC, mana sustain becomes really important in WC3. You’ll be out of energy a lot more on your casters and heroes, especially if you’re skirmishing a lot. Whereas in SC2 you’ve often got games with initial harass into a few big engagements.
So Archmage’s brilliance aura synergises very well with a comp like rifle/caster + footies or whatever. Healing from Priests and Sorc’s slow are super potent, and Brilliance lets you keep it up for longer.
For me it’s a less stressful game than the SCs, but there is a lot to learn too! It’s definitely worth checking out damage and armour types as well. Rifles absolutely shred huntresses for example as they’ve bonus damage, but less so grunts say, even though they’re somewhat similar in role and stuff like that isn’t always immediately obvious
Incidentally other thread dwellers where’s the best place to find just written guides for basic openers and builds? I like video content for more in-depth guides but sometimes I just wanna add a few builds to my note folder.
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United States12227 Posts
On November 18 2024 01:17 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 16:04 CicadaSC wrote:On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy. mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things? Human’s basic gameplan in most matchups is fast expand. Militia + Archmage summons + the ability to fast build help get those spots creeped and an expo up. Much more so IMO than SC, mana sustain becomes really important in WC3. You’ll be out of energy a lot more on your casters and heroes, especially if you’re skirmishing a lot. Whereas in SC2 you’ve often got games with initial harass into a few big engagements. So Archmage’s brilliance aura synergises very well with a comp like rifle/caster + footies or whatever. Healing from Priests and Sorc’s slow are super potent, and Brilliance lets you keep it up for longer. For me it’s a less stressful game than the SCs, but there is a lot to learn too! It’s definitely worth checking out damage and armour types as well. Rifles absolutely shred huntresses for example as they’ve bonus damage, but less so grunts say, even though they’re somewhat similar in role and stuff like that isn’t always immediately obvious Incidentally other thread dwellers where’s the best place to find just written guides for basic openers and builds? I like video content for more in-depth guides but sometimes I just wanna add a few builds to my note folder.
Same answers: WC3 Gym website and Grubby's discord (#wc3-builds pinned messages).
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United States12227 Posts
On November 17 2024 16:04 CicadaSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy. mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things?
Human counters to Batriders. Bats have an antiair suicide attack like Scourge, but in a small AoE. Counters include Flying Machines (they're 1 food and you can mass a lot of them, so just keep them spread out. The Batrider is cost effective if it takes out 2 Flying Machines) and Gryphons with max armor upgrade + Devotion Aura + Inner Fire, which heavily reduces the physical damage of the explosion and which you can heal quickly with Holy Light.
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Northern Ireland24006 Posts
On November 18 2024 01:24 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 01:17 WombaT wrote:On November 17 2024 16:04 CicadaSC wrote:On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy. mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things? Human’s basic gameplan in most matchups is fast expand. Militia + Archmage summons + the ability to fast build help get those spots creeped and an expo up. Much more so IMO than SC, mana sustain becomes really important in WC3. You’ll be out of energy a lot more on your casters and heroes, especially if you’re skirmishing a lot. Whereas in SC2 you’ve often got games with initial harass into a few big engagements. So Archmage’s brilliance aura synergises very well with a comp like rifle/caster + footies or whatever. Healing from Priests and Sorc’s slow are super potent, and Brilliance lets you keep it up for longer. For me it’s a less stressful game than the SCs, but there is a lot to learn too! It’s definitely worth checking out damage and armour types as well. Rifles absolutely shred huntresses for example as they’ve bonus damage, but less so grunts say, even though they’re somewhat similar in role and stuff like that isn’t always immediately obvious Incidentally other thread dwellers where’s the best place to find just written guides for basic openers and builds? I like video content for more in-depth guides but sometimes I just wanna add a few builds to my note folder. Same answers: WC3 Gym website and Grubby's discord (#wc3-builds pinned messages).
Oops, missed those tips first times around, my bad. Well at this stage I need to at least hit one gym! I’d initially thought WC3 Gym was just a YouTube channel but I’m finding good stuff in the website already, my thanks.
Aside from remembering old builds, one thing I am finding a bit trickier are upgrades.
Maybe it’s just familiarity but I find various SC2 approaches quite simple. 2/2 is a big power spike playing Terrran and a big focus on timings. +1 Zealots kill lings in one less hit, +2 banes one shot workers. As Toss attack ups are what you want in a range army you don’t want hit, but armour ups make Zealots ridiculous if you can manage to have a 2 upgrade lead.
I’m finding it a little trickier in WC3 to identify where those power spikes are, they feel a bit more nuanced or something.
There’s some that are somewhat easy enough to figure out. IIRC batriders do a set amount of physical damage when they’re suiciding, that doesn’t scale with attack ups. So if you can grab a bunch of air armour upgrades you can just straight up tank more batrider explosions
Overall it feels a little trickier to figure out how to prioritise certain ups, also I guess because heroes punch so hard when they scale sometimes the base army’s attributes aren’t quite as important
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United States12227 Posts
On November 18 2024 09:14 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 01:24 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 18 2024 01:17 WombaT wrote:On November 17 2024 16:04 CicadaSC wrote:On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy. mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things? Human’s basic gameplan in most matchups is fast expand. Militia + Archmage summons + the ability to fast build help get those spots creeped and an expo up. Much more so IMO than SC, mana sustain becomes really important in WC3. You’ll be out of energy a lot more on your casters and heroes, especially if you’re skirmishing a lot. Whereas in SC2 you’ve often got games with initial harass into a few big engagements. So Archmage’s brilliance aura synergises very well with a comp like rifle/caster + footies or whatever. Healing from Priests and Sorc’s slow are super potent, and Brilliance lets you keep it up for longer. For me it’s a less stressful game than the SCs, but there is a lot to learn too! It’s definitely worth checking out damage and armour types as well. Rifles absolutely shred huntresses for example as they’ve bonus damage, but less so grunts say, even though they’re somewhat similar in role and stuff like that isn’t always immediately obvious Incidentally other thread dwellers where’s the best place to find just written guides for basic openers and builds? I like video content for more in-depth guides but sometimes I just wanna add a few builds to my note folder. Same answers: WC3 Gym website and Grubby's discord (#wc3-builds pinned messages). Oops, missed those tips first times around, my bad. Well at this stage I need to at least hit one gym! I’d initially thought WC3 Gym was just a YouTube channel but I’m finding good stuff in the website already, my thanks. Aside from remembering old builds, one thing I am finding a bit trickier are upgrades. Maybe it’s just familiarity but I find various SC2 approaches quite simple. 2/2 is a big power spike playing Terrran and a big focus on timings. +1 Zealots kill lings in one less hit, +2 banes one shot workers. As Toss attack ups are what you want in a range army you don’t want hit, but armour ups make Zealots ridiculous if you can manage to have a 2 upgrade lead. I’m finding it a little trickier in WC3 to identify where those power spikes are, they feel a bit more nuanced or something. There’s some that are somewhat easy enough to figure out. IIRC batriders do a set amount of physical damage when they’re suiciding, that doesn’t scale with attack ups. So if you can grab a bunch of air armour upgrades you can just straight up tank more batrider explosions Overall it feels a little trickier to figure out how to prioritise certain ups, also I guess because heroes punch so hard when they scale sometimes the base army’s attributes aren’t quite as important
Yeah there are basically three components which kind of eliminate the concept of "breakpoints" like you'd find in SC:
- Units have tons of health
- There are more damagetypes and armortypes
- Armor values mitigate damage according to a formula
Healing is a secondary one since it's much more prevalent than in SC. So yes, everything is more nuanced. Roughly speaking, each attack upgrade increases damage by 12.5%, and each armor upgrade increases physical effective health by 12%. In general, if you are going into an armortype interaction which is unfavorable (Headhunters being attacked by Ghouls), or if you have on-demand healing, armor upgrades are more useful than attack upgrades because each unit your enemy kills gives them XP.
e: But by no means is anything set in stone. Starbuck just beat ultra-dominant player Happy a few days ago by getting double Blacksmith so he could rush 3/3 for his Knights while Happy still had 1/0 Ghouls. People are still innovating with regard to upgrade prioritization even today.
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Northern Ireland24006 Posts
On November 18 2024 10:21 Excalibur_Z wrote:Show nested quote +On November 18 2024 09:14 WombaT wrote:On November 18 2024 01:24 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 18 2024 01:17 WombaT wrote:On November 17 2024 16:04 CicadaSC wrote:On November 17 2024 15:30 Excalibur_Z wrote:On November 17 2024 15:16 CicadaSC wrote:
If anyone can help me with HUMAN Tech Progression i am a bit lost after riflemen, footman and 2 hero stage. i heard u go priests but arent they useless until t3 inner fire? I made a couple and it felt like they did literally nothing. Do i need to research something at t2 for them to be good? Feels like you just need some basic resources to find a build and explain why it's good. WC3 Gym is great for that, and their Discord is designed for mentorship. Grubby also has beginner-oriented builds and strategies both posted in his Discord (in #wc3-builds) as well as his main Youtube channel. Short answer is Priest healing is very good as it keeps the Human army downtime low, particularly paired with Brilliance Aura to fuel their mana regen. Priest Dispel is immensely useful and is arguably a main reason you get Priests in the first place. It has a decent AoE, removes buffs and debuffs, and deals 200 damage to summons. Inner Fire is of course nice to have if you go Castle, but doing so is a big commitment that will only be affordable if you have a strong economy. mana regen for my heroes you mean with priest brilliance? Just trying to make sure i understand. Also what is a good human counter to flying bat things? Human’s basic gameplan in most matchups is fast expand. Militia + Archmage summons + the ability to fast build help get those spots creeped and an expo up. Much more so IMO than SC, mana sustain becomes really important in WC3. You’ll be out of energy a lot more on your casters and heroes, especially if you’re skirmishing a lot. Whereas in SC2 you’ve often got games with initial harass into a few big engagements. So Archmage’s brilliance aura synergises very well with a comp like rifle/caster + footies or whatever. Healing from Priests and Sorc’s slow are super potent, and Brilliance lets you keep it up for longer. For me it’s a less stressful game than the SCs, but there is a lot to learn too! It’s definitely worth checking out damage and armour types as well. Rifles absolutely shred huntresses for example as they’ve bonus damage, but less so grunts say, even though they’re somewhat similar in role and stuff like that isn’t always immediately obvious Incidentally other thread dwellers where’s the best place to find just written guides for basic openers and builds? I like video content for more in-depth guides but sometimes I just wanna add a few builds to my note folder. Same answers: WC3 Gym website and Grubby's discord (#wc3-builds pinned messages). Oops, missed those tips first times around, my bad. Well at this stage I need to at least hit one gym! I’d initially thought WC3 Gym was just a YouTube channel but I’m finding good stuff in the website already, my thanks. Aside from remembering old builds, one thing I am finding a bit trickier are upgrades. Maybe it’s just familiarity but I find various SC2 approaches quite simple. 2/2 is a big power spike playing Terrran and a big focus on timings. +1 Zealots kill lings in one less hit, +2 banes one shot workers. As Toss attack ups are what you want in a range army you don’t want hit, but armour ups make Zealots ridiculous if you can manage to have a 2 upgrade lead. I’m finding it a little trickier in WC3 to identify where those power spikes are, they feel a bit more nuanced or something. There’s some that are somewhat easy enough to figure out. IIRC batriders do a set amount of physical damage when they’re suiciding, that doesn’t scale with attack ups. So if you can grab a bunch of air armour upgrades you can just straight up tank more batrider explosions Overall it feels a little trickier to figure out how to prioritise certain ups, also I guess because heroes punch so hard when they scale sometimes the base army’s attributes aren’t quite as important Yeah there are basically three components which kind of eliminate the concept of "breakpoints" like you'd find in SC: - Units have tons of health - There are more damagetypes and armortypes - Armor values mitigate damage according to a formula Healing is a secondary one since it's much more prevalent than in SC. So yes, everything is more nuanced. Roughly speaking, each attack upgrade increases damage by 12.5%, and each armor upgrade increases physical effective health by 12%. In general, if you are going into an armortype interaction which is unfavorable (Headhunters being attacked by Ghouls), or if you have on-demand healing, armor upgrades are more useful than attack upgrades because each unit your enemy kills gives them XP. e: But by no means is anything set in stone. Starbuck just beat ultra-dominant player Happy a few days ago by getting double Blacksmith so he could rush 3/3 for his Knights while Happy still had 1/0 Ghouls. People are still innovating with regard to upgrade prioritization even today.
Plus variable damage as well to a degree. Hey it’s very different from SC which is part of the fun but I imagine it’s a bit daunting for someone more familiar with that. I did play a ton of it back in the day and hit the ‘heady heights’ of getting ranked in 2v2 :p Surprised how much is coming back to me already actually!
Is there a way to fix the sounds? I have this thing where a few units have like 2 death sounds, one’s the old school one and the other is the new one. It seems it just randomly picks between them for a few units and it’s minorly irksome
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United States12227 Posts
Oh. Duh. Yes. Random damage. Basically the staple of Warcraft lmao. The most obvious one!
The sounds, unfortunately, are linked with the Reforged slider. When you enable that main "Reforged" toggle in the Options menu, all audio automatically gets shifted to Reforged sounds, including those extra death sounds. So whether you're using Reforged graphics or Classic HD, you'll still have the new sound effects. At present there's no way to decouple them, but I know that's been requested (Grubby said this is the main reason he doesn't like using Classic HD graphics, which on their own are great).
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this game is such a breath of fresh air. a real quality rts, but at the same time, so different from any others ive played. It's got a lot more depth than it leads on and there is so much to figure out. It is perhaps the most build order / ability centric game ive played? SC2 builds and ability casting are crucial don't get me wrong, but to me it feels more like a mechanics fest. A nice FUN game.
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what's with me and discovering good games so late. 
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Northern Ireland24006 Posts
On November 20 2024 07:56 CicadaSC wrote:
this game is such a breath of fresh air. a real quality rts, but at the same time, so different from any others ive played. It's got a lot more depth than it leads on and there is so much to figure out. It is perhaps the most build order / ability centric game ive played? SC2 builds and ability casting are crucial don't get me wrong, but to me it feels more like a mechanics fest. A nice FUN game.
Happy cake day!
Interesting from someone I’m assuming is pretty wholly new to it, I’d say WC3 is way less build dependent personally. They’re important of course, but I find it a bit more improvisational than SC2, past initial levels. I think a lot of how to do that is kinda hidden behind lack of knowledge to know how to pivot.
Ok so let’s say my general gameplan is to go DH into Panda or Naga in Nelf/Human, behind a reasonably fast tech, behind fast expo. Game 1 resembles most games where I’ve got a pretty even early game, so I just do that. Game 2 might be atypical where I stomp creeping, get some great items that suit, GH and I grab an unexpected hero kill.
It may become viable to just hard push a solo DH and be aggressive then. Only if you have a solo hero, you get bonus exp when you hit tier 2/3, so it can be possible to pivot from your original plan based on the early game and how it went. Slow down a bit and get a second hero or just push your momentum and go for a stacked Demon Hunter
Of course, one has to know about the solo hero tech tier bonus exp mechanic to be aware of this possibility, but it’s there. It’s kinda the whole basis of solo Warden styles, and it’s pretty cool. Indeed Warden may be the only hero in the game that is actively better as a solo build.
Upkeep is a really, really interesting mechanic too. An anti-snowball that I’m generally surprised more games haven’t experimented with
But there’s a load of little intricacies to be aware of, and it’s quite different from a lot of other games
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Man you all talking about Warcraft makes me really want to play it again but I also really don't want to give Blizzard money. Stuck between a rock and a hard place here
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Warcraft 3 should really be way more popular than it currently is. Especially the team game aspect. It's crazy good.
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Northern Ireland24006 Posts
On November 20 2024 17:56 Harris1st wrote:
Man you all talking about Warcraft makes me really want to play it again but I also really don't want to give Blizzard money. Stuck between a rock and a hard place here
Way I justified it is I held off for years not being able to play my all-time favourite game, and I somewhat considered this as giving Microsoft my money given the recent impetus and it being consistent with what they’ve done with AoE games in recent years.
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Northern Ireland24006 Posts
On November 21 2024 03:29 zhrtehgdf wrote:Show nested quote +On November 21 2024 00:50 WombaT wrote:On November 20 2024 17:56 Harris1st wrote:
Man you all talking about Warcraft makes me really want to play it again but I also really don't want to give Blizzard money. Stuck between a rock and a hard place here Way I justified it is I held off for years not being able to play my all-time favourite game, and I somewhat considered this as giving Microsoft my money given the recent impetus and it being consistent with what they’ve done with AoE games in recent years. What? Microsoft released Windows ME, Windows Vista. How could you ever support a company like that? What about Age of Empires 4? I dont think you are trolling. You are actually serious
You never get bored of this eh?
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EPT
