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On June 08 2013 22:56 TheKefka wrote:Who ever says they had fun in molten core is either shamelessly lying or his brain is tainted by nostalgia Molten core was one of the worst fucking experiences ever and the only thing that makes is worth it is actually finishing it and looking back at the days of total bullshit that was farming and progression you had to go through. I have no idea who in his right mind wants to go back and raid molten core for fun Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 04:56 Judicator wrote:
Not to mention all the hard checks they put into the game, you weren't going to progress in BWL unless you farmed MC for your 40. Then there are attunement quests, etc. etc. People nostalgic for vanilla just overlook some of the really annoying aspects of getting 40 people together. Oh you got a new member? Gotta run MC again for the 500th time so we can progress in BWL.
That stagnant progression was soul crushing the moment you realized what you were doing.Your state of mind went literally from Yeah we downed Ragnaros! to Fuck we need to kill Ragnaros for someone's T2. That shit wasn't exciting.
TBC was the high point where Blizzard found a balance. Haven't raided enough in anything past that expansion to comment. yes,yes and yes
Molten core was horrible because of all the trash mobs you had to clear. Other than that MC wasn't that bad...
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On June 08 2013 23:17 Redox wrote:
I have played on vanilla servers (feenix Server). Its not as good though as nostalgia makes people believe. If nowadays a game like WoW vanilla came out we would discard it pretty fast.
Biggest problem is vanilla WoW was barely about skill but only investing huge amounts of time. PvP was about zerging, raid encounters were much less complex.
Beginning of TBC was my favorite time with the demanding 5 man heroics.
But yeah if anyone wants to play vanilla I would recomend the Feenix server.
Well I personally think that playing 1 more 5 hour game of Alterac valley would be worth it. It obviously gets boring... like the 4th time, but that first experience is STILL so much better.
Why did they remove those epic quests, NPCs and shit from alterac anyway?
I always wanted a battleground that would closely resemble a WC3 match. Building fortifications, calling reinforcements with whatever resourcess you've acquired, maybe even building towers at pre-set locations etc etc.
All of this is obviously really hard to do especially for such an old game like wow, but a man can dream. Can't he?
Seriously if an MMO ever incorporates as a really complex battleground system, I'll go play it immediatly.
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On June 09 2013 01:03 deth2munkies wrote:
Here's the problem: Vanilla WoW and TBC were great by nostalgia standards, but people tend to forget how inconvenient and utterly retarded some of the mechanics were.
Rep grinding is an ENORMOUS pain in the ass in both places, spending 50+ hours killing Furblogs is not my idea of fun.
Transportation is a nightmare, flight paths are few and far between, you don't get a mount till 40 (and that's if you have more money than is likely for you to have at that point because quests don't give hardly any money), AND on top of it flight paths connect in such a way that you have to discover all of them in order to get to certain places.
Resist gear is a pain in the ass to farm and relies on luck to get a lot of the patterns/materials.
Blackrock Fucking Depths still fucking sucks fucking ass yet you have to do it a billion times.
40 people, 4-5 purples per boss, and most people can't use them.
Tons of specs are not only suboptimal, but completely unviable: non-holy paladins (prot was fixed in TBC), Feral/Balance druids, Demonology/Affliction heavy locks, etc. For many classes there was exactly 1 good raid build.
Raid attunements: there's always one jackass who forgot to do the quest.
Vanilla questing was horrible: often times the questgivers were extremely far from their quests or on the opposite sides of the same area where all were completed, horribly inefficient.
At the time, you couldn't expect much better from a game, now we can, and the oldness will show. I think it might be interesting to try for a bit out of nostalgia, but be forewarned that most of you will get bored very fast with it once you remember how boring it could get.
Questing/Transportation were actually really good imo. It encouraged exploring and all, not just having everything spoonfed to you (or "streamlined"). The raid drops were...i don't know, the only thing that was horrible about it was pally/shammy gear dropping for the opposite faction.
Vanilla wasn't better at everything but i think overall it was still better...even with stupid BRD (it wasn't THAT bad when you didn't PUG it but everybody hated that place it was rare to get good runs there)..
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If the population was high and I thought it would be around for at least a few years, I would join up in a heartbeat. But, I really don't think that's the case.
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Yeah, if there were 500 people playing this i'd jump on it, but im not going to be 1 of the 50 that waste their time because it never gets off the ground
The thing is, with 500 people on a vanilla private server, you know they all mean business, they're all going to want to do shit, they're all going to be motivated, and if they'r enot, they'll be motivated by the other tryhards
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I'm playing on a vanilla (french) private server at the moment, and raiding with my guild the evening. It's really really fun to have a guild and progress through the raids again. The PvP however is really bad in vanilla (getting one shotted or one shot someone, pvp trinket does nothing, lack of abilities etc...), and when I want to do PvP I go to the Feenix TBC server where I have some well geared PvP chars.
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On June 09 2013 02:48 Roggay wrote:
I'm playing on a vanilla (french) private server at the moment, and raiding with my guild the evening. It's really really fun to have a guild and progress through the raids again. The PvP however is really bad in vanilla (getting one shotted or one shot someone, pvp trinket does nothing, lack of abilities etc...), and when I want to do PvP I go to the Feenix TBC server where I have some well geared PvP chars.
So how many players does a server like this have?
I looked on feenix and vanilla gaming and i found no substantial proof of what number their active player base is.
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We set one up a few months ago for wotlk. We are a group of people who usually play other things and sometimes easily reach 10-15 players. Suffice to say, it did not go well for raiding. My god, I wish some of my friends never even showed up.
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On June 09 2013 02:52 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 02:48 Roggay wrote:
I'm playing on a vanilla (french) private server at the moment, and raiding with my guild the evening. It's really really fun to have a guild and progress through the raids again. The PvP however is really bad in vanilla (getting one shotted or one shot someone, pvp trinket does nothing, lack of abilities etc...), and when I want to do PvP I go to the Feenix TBC server where I have some well geared PvP chars. So how many players does a server like this have? I looked on feenix and vanilla gaming and i found no substantial proof of what number their active player base is.
Feenix has the most afaik (their TBC server usually has 2400+ people in the evening for example, never played their vanilla one).
My vanilla server is french so it has less people, between 700-800 the evening.
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On June 09 2013 01:31 xMiragex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 01:03 deth2munkies wrote:
Here's the problem: Vanilla WoW and TBC were great by nostalgia standards, but people tend to forget how inconvenient and utterly retarded some of the mechanics were.
Rep grinding is an ENORMOUS pain in the ass in both places, spending 50+ hours killing Furblogs is not my idea of fun.
Transportation is a nightmare, flight paths are few and far between, you don't get a mount till 40 (and that's if you have more money than is likely for you to have at that point because quests don't give hardly any money), AND on top of it flight paths connect in such a way that you have to discover all of them in order to get to certain places.
Resist gear is a pain in the ass to farm and relies on luck to get a lot of the patterns/materials.
Blackrock Fucking Depths still fucking sucks fucking ass yet you have to do it a billion times.
40 people, 4-5 purples per boss, and most people can't use them.
Tons of specs are not only suboptimal, but completely unviable: non-holy paladins (prot was fixed in TBC), Feral/Balance druids, Demonology/Affliction heavy locks, etc. For many classes there was exactly 1 good raid build.
Raid attunements: there's always one jackass who forgot to do the quest.
Vanilla questing was horrible: often times the questgivers were extremely far from their quests or on the opposite sides of the same area where all were completed, horribly inefficient.
At the time, you couldn't expect much better from a game, now we can, and the oldness will show. I think it might be interesting to try for a bit out of nostalgia, but be forewarned that most of you will get bored very fast with it once you remember how boring it could get. Questing/Transportation were actually really good imo. It encouraged exploring and all, not just having everything spoonfed to you (or "streamlined"). The raid drops were...i don't know, the only thing that was horrible about it was pally/shammy gear dropping for the opposite faction. Vanilla wasn't better at everything but i think overall it was still better...even with stupid BRD (it wasn't THAT bad when you didn't PUG it but everybody hated that place it was rare to get good runs there)..
Not really, there are vast areas of the map where there is literally no point to go there other than one quest that starts from a chain in a different zone. Add to it you're walking at slow ass walking speed for the majority of it (and can't run past monsters until you get a mount, so you have a bunch of pointless fights) and it gets really annoying.
As far as questing, let me just point out one of the less egregious examples: Ragefire Chasm had quests from every major Horde city that you had to run around and get before you did it. It was like that for nearly every dungeon, and even some zones didn't have very many quests IN them, but had quests to GO TO them.
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I've been semi-interested in playing on some WoW private server (I don't have Pandaria, and I won't buy it), but everytime I realize it probably won't be as great as I imagine. I'm quite a casual player and while I would like to raid etc, I doubt there's even close to enough people on private servers to find mature casual raiding guilds.
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Would love to do the opening of Ahn´Qiraj again. That was epic as fuck!
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On June 09 2013 01:22 thezanursic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 08 2013 23:08 Copymizer wrote:On June 08 2013 22:21 thezanursic wrote:
Whats server population like?
Honestly I'd prefer a TBC private though. I personally think that was the pinnacle of raiding. Feenix private server is the place for you then. it's very active on horde side, several guilds are fully geared tier4/5 and the leveling is 14x so it won't take so long to reach max. www.wow-one.comi had fun up until end of wotlk ca. cata only lasted 2 months for me and i'm not touching MoP. I had the most fun in TBC when i was hardcore raiding, defintely the prime years for me, 2007-2008 late'ish I started just before Zul'aman. And was mostly just REALLY bad at PvP and ran a couple of pugs in Kara. In WOTLK I started getting decent, but I still didn't have time to commit to raiding, I did get a couple of offers to join good guilds, but I didn't have the time to raid regularly as I said, but then in Cata I finally found time and joined a guild, but kind of missed the queue for the A line-up and mostly sat on the bench so I quit... So what's the Alliance pop like? If I played I would most likely play Horde, but having a healthy Alliance population is always nice.
I would say horde population is the biggest, so rolling alliance would be the best choice balance wise, but it's all up to you. better AH economy and finding groups should be on horde side. you can add me as well if you feel like it. i'm Rendes
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On June 09 2013 05:29 Tobberoth wrote:
I've been semi-interested in playing on some WoW private server (I don't have Pandaria, and I won't buy it), but everytime I realize it probably won't be as great as I imagine. I'm quite a casual player and while I would like to raid etc, I doubt there's even close to enough people on private servers to find mature casual raiding guilds.
Dunno, 2.4k players on a TBC server at peak sounds like a hell of alot of players to me, definitely enough for one server.
I really expected sub 100. Wow damn.
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On June 09 2013 05:20 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 01:31 xMiragex wrote:On June 09 2013 01:03 deth2munkies wrote:
Here's the problem: Vanilla WoW and TBC were great by nostalgia standards, but people tend to forget how inconvenient and utterly retarded some of the mechanics were.
Rep grinding is an ENORMOUS pain in the ass in both places, spending 50+ hours killing Furblogs is not my idea of fun.
Transportation is a nightmare, flight paths are few and far between, you don't get a mount till 40 (and that's if you have more money than is likely for you to have at that point because quests don't give hardly any money), AND on top of it flight paths connect in such a way that you have to discover all of them in order to get to certain places.
Resist gear is a pain in the ass to farm and relies on luck to get a lot of the patterns/materials.
Blackrock Fucking Depths still fucking sucks fucking ass yet you have to do it a billion times.
40 people, 4-5 purples per boss, and most people can't use them.
Tons of specs are not only suboptimal, but completely unviable: non-holy paladins (prot was fixed in TBC), Feral/Balance druids, Demonology/Affliction heavy locks, etc. For many classes there was exactly 1 good raid build.
Raid attunements: there's always one jackass who forgot to do the quest.
Vanilla questing was horrible: often times the questgivers were extremely far from their quests or on the opposite sides of the same area where all were completed, horribly inefficient.
At the time, you couldn't expect much better from a game, now we can, and the oldness will show. I think it might be interesting to try for a bit out of nostalgia, but be forewarned that most of you will get bored very fast with it once you remember how boring it could get. Questing/Transportation were actually really good imo. It encouraged exploring and all, not just having everything spoonfed to you (or "streamlined"). The raid drops were...i don't know, the only thing that was horrible about it was pally/shammy gear dropping for the opposite faction. Vanilla wasn't better at everything but i think overall it was still better...even with stupid BRD (it wasn't THAT bad when you didn't PUG it but everybody hated that place it was rare to get good runs there).. Not really, there are vast areas of the map where there is literally no point to go there other than one quest that starts from a chain in a different zone. Add to it you're walking at slow ass walking speed for the majority of it (and can't run past monsters until you get a mount, so you have a bunch of pointless fights) and it gets really annoying. As far as questing, let me just point out one of the less egregious examples: Ragefire Chasm had quests from every major Horde city that you had to run around and get before you did it. It was like that for nearly every dungeon, and even some zones didn't have very many quests IN them, but had quests to GO TO them.
That wasn't as bad as you think, it was bad for new players, but it wasn't that bad once sites like allakhazam/wowhead came out where you can start mapping your quest lines out and minimize your travel.
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All the pointless shit is what makes it great imo. Its bullshit, clearly and bad design / shitty gameplay, but its what makes it great.
I cant explain it, just having to run from here to there, there to here and experience the world (and actually have to make effort, like those "pointless fights") made it come more alive if you ask me. Having to work for your shit (even if a "pointless grind") held alot of satisfaction, although vanilla WoW may have been stretching limits to what people could handle, not many can handle it again in this day and age of pansie games
I much prefer it to AFKing in dungeon/raid finder queue and doing daily quests that go in a perfect circle before buying my optimised buff items from auction house and logging off untill raid time.
I might check this out..but 14x servers sound shit to me, levelling is a huge part of the process and i dont want it 14x quicker. Im yet to find a 1x server (or any in fact) to boast such a playerbase of 2.4k people peak. If anyone knows of one, let me know ya?
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After trying out some of these vanilla/TBC servers I realized it was the community who made the game awesome in the first place. Keep in mind that I have never been a good PvP player, so I can only speak from a PvE point of view.
From a mechanical standpoint the game evolved with every xpack. Almost all the specs are viable and ability rotations are fun and have some depth (as opposed to mashing the Shadowbolt/Fireball/Lifebloom/etc button).
The community is however really bad and I mostly blame cross realm Dungeon Finder and too easy leveling for that. Back when you were limited to your own server being a jackass all the time only bit you in the rear in the long run. Right now it does not really matter, as chances to meet the people you run dungeons/LFR with again are really slim. You would have to either roll a new character (took a long time) or get a name change (implemented later on, but I believe there was a website to "track" these people).
Easier leveling also means new players don't learn their class properly. Is grinding 100 basilisks (that apparently have no brain) boring? Yes. Will you have "OH SHI-!" moments during that time and be forced to kite/CC/throw everything your class can do to survive? Yes. Heirlooms were a great way to speed up that process for players who wanted to roll a new char, but it got a bit out of hand.
I really hate the new 1-60 leveling. Sure, it is fun but you only see a fraction of the world. You go to a new area, complete 10-15 quests, do a dungeon since you queue while doing said quests and then you outlevel the area and need to move to the next. You don't even get to fully explore that area!
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On June 09 2013 06:18 Capped wrote:
All the pointless shit is what makes it great imo. Its bullshit, clearly and bad design / shitty gameplay, but its what makes it great.
I cant explain it, just having to run from here to there, there to here and experience the world (and actually have to make effort, like those "pointless fights") made it come more alive if you ask me. Having to work for your shit (even if a "pointless grind") held alot of satisfaction, although vanilla WoW may have been stretching limits to what people could handle, not many can handle it again in this day and age of pansie games
I much prefer it to AFKing in dungeon/raid finder queue and doing daily quests that go in a perfect circle before buying my optimised buff items from auction house and logging off untill raid time.
I might check this out..but 14x servers sound shit to me, levelling is a huge part of the process and i dont want it 14x quicker. Im yet to find a 1x server (or any in fact) to boast such a playerbase of 2.4k people peak. If anyone knows of one, let me know ya?
The 1x vanilla server of Feenix is pretty big afaik.
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On June 09 2013 05:58 Judicator wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 05:20 deth2munkies wrote:On June 09 2013 01:31 xMiragex wrote:On June 09 2013 01:03 deth2munkies wrote:
Here's the problem: Vanilla WoW and TBC were great by nostalgia standards, but people tend to forget how inconvenient and utterly retarded some of the mechanics were.
Rep grinding is an ENORMOUS pain in the ass in both places, spending 50+ hours killing Furblogs is not my idea of fun.
Transportation is a nightmare, flight paths are few and far between, you don't get a mount till 40 (and that's if you have more money than is likely for you to have at that point because quests don't give hardly any money), AND on top of it flight paths connect in such a way that you have to discover all of them in order to get to certain places.
Resist gear is a pain in the ass to farm and relies on luck to get a lot of the patterns/materials.
Blackrock Fucking Depths still fucking sucks fucking ass yet you have to do it a billion times.
40 people, 4-5 purples per boss, and most people can't use them.
Tons of specs are not only suboptimal, but completely unviable: non-holy paladins (prot was fixed in TBC), Feral/Balance druids, Demonology/Affliction heavy locks, etc. For many classes there was exactly 1 good raid build.
Raid attunements: there's always one jackass who forgot to do the quest.
Vanilla questing was horrible: often times the questgivers were extremely far from their quests or on the opposite sides of the same area where all were completed, horribly inefficient.
At the time, you couldn't expect much better from a game, now we can, and the oldness will show. I think it might be interesting to try for a bit out of nostalgia, but be forewarned that most of you will get bored very fast with it once you remember how boring it could get. Questing/Transportation were actually really good imo. It encouraged exploring and all, not just having everything spoonfed to you (or "streamlined"). The raid drops were...i don't know, the only thing that was horrible about it was pally/shammy gear dropping for the opposite faction. Vanilla wasn't better at everything but i think overall it was still better...even with stupid BRD (it wasn't THAT bad when you didn't PUG it but everybody hated that place it was rare to get good runs there).. Not really, there are vast areas of the map where there is literally no point to go there other than one quest that starts from a chain in a different zone. Add to it you're walking at slow ass walking speed for the majority of it (and can't run past monsters until you get a mount, so you have a bunch of pointless fights) and it gets really annoying. As far as questing, let me just point out one of the less egregious examples: Ragefire Chasm had quests from every major Horde city that you had to run around and get before you did it. It was like that for nearly every dungeon, and even some zones didn't have very many quests IN them, but had quests to GO TO them. That wasn't as bad as you think, it was bad for new players, but it wasn't that bad once sites like allakhazam/wowhead came out where you can start mapping your quest lines out and minimize your travel.
Very true, but it's still culture shock to see such a step back in game design. Say what you want about Wrath/Cata, their leveling and questing were far superior to anything that came before it.
Also, got on the server advertised in this post and was lvl 5 before I finished the lvl 1 Kobold killing quest in Elwynn...yeah, fuck it.
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On June 09 2013 06:40 deth2munkies wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2013 05:58 Judicator wrote:On June 09 2013 05:20 deth2munkies wrote:On June 09 2013 01:31 xMiragex wrote:On June 09 2013 01:03 deth2munkies wrote:
Here's the problem: Vanilla WoW and TBC were great by nostalgia standards, but people tend to forget how inconvenient and utterly retarded some of the mechanics were.
Rep grinding is an ENORMOUS pain in the ass in both places, spending 50+ hours killing Furblogs is not my idea of fun.
Transportation is a nightmare, flight paths are few and far between, you don't get a mount till 40 (and that's if you have more money than is likely for you to have at that point because quests don't give hardly any money), AND on top of it flight paths connect in such a way that you have to discover all of them in order to get to certain places.
Resist gear is a pain in the ass to farm and relies on luck to get a lot of the patterns/materials.
Blackrock Fucking Depths still fucking sucks fucking ass yet you have to do it a billion times.
40 people, 4-5 purples per boss, and most people can't use them.
Tons of specs are not only suboptimal, but completely unviable: non-holy paladins (prot was fixed in TBC), Feral/Balance druids, Demonology/Affliction heavy locks, etc. For many classes there was exactly 1 good raid build.
Raid attunements: there's always one jackass who forgot to do the quest.
Vanilla questing was horrible: often times the questgivers were extremely far from their quests or on the opposite sides of the same area where all were completed, horribly inefficient.
At the time, you couldn't expect much better from a game, now we can, and the oldness will show. I think it might be interesting to try for a bit out of nostalgia, but be forewarned that most of you will get bored very fast with it once you remember how boring it could get. Questing/Transportation were actually really good imo. It encouraged exploring and all, not just having everything spoonfed to you (or "streamlined"). The raid drops were...i don't know, the only thing that was horrible about it was pally/shammy gear dropping for the opposite faction. Vanilla wasn't better at everything but i think overall it was still better...even with stupid BRD (it wasn't THAT bad when you didn't PUG it but everybody hated that place it was rare to get good runs there).. Not really, there are vast areas of the map where there is literally no point to go there other than one quest that starts from a chain in a different zone. Add to it you're walking at slow ass walking speed for the majority of it (and can't run past monsters until you get a mount, so you have a bunch of pointless fights) and it gets really annoying. As far as questing, let me just point out one of the less egregious examples: Ragefire Chasm had quests from every major Horde city that you had to run around and get before you did it. It was like that for nearly every dungeon, and even some zones didn't have very many quests IN them, but had quests to GO TO them. That wasn't as bad as you think, it was bad for new players, but it wasn't that bad once sites like allakhazam/wowhead came out where you can start mapping your quest lines out and minimize your travel. Very true, but it's still culture shock to see such a step back in game design. Say what you want about Wrath/Cata, their leveling and questing were far superior to anything that came before it. Also, got on the server advertised in this post and was lvl 5 before I finished the lvl 1 Kobold killing quest in Elwynn...yeah, fuck it.
Why do people like to level up? I dont understand, it takes way too much time. Its fun the first time on retail, but its really annoying after that.
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