|
On August 09 2013 05:41 Blisse wrote:
power brick's a bit annoying, but it means the psu isn't in the case which helps with heat. and hopefully a brick would have a longer cable than standard ac power cords, which is fair. hopefully it isn't proprietary though.
huge case is for cooling - heatsink space and breathing room. they're trying to avoid the rrod issues and they want it to last 10 years, so it better run cool. not sure why you would want something ridiculously small anyways.
idk what's the problem with 2 usb ports on the back, but the usb port on the side would be useful if you want to plug'n'play external hard drives, and it's a lot more out of the way than having it in the front.
having the usb ports at the back is ridiculous because they are used for charging primarily, not to add external storage, if it even supports that. you'd literally have to leave the usb cables plugged in and stored somewhere to access those ports as further, MS saying it wants this to fit into your home entertainment system next to your cable box and other equipment. dont sit there and tell me having to reach around the back of the console to plug in a usb cable is in anyway convenient.
and i dont know if the side port is even worse, if you have to end up rearranging your home theater devices so you have clearance on the sides to use that port. not sure why they just didnt use a hidden front panel like they did on the 360.
you are right about not adding additional heat to the case in regards to the psu, but in technicality smaller cases are better for thermal management; theres a smaller volume of heated air for your cooling system to exhaust.
|
? they support external storage. you can buy an external hard drive that you're always going to keep hooked up to it and plug it in the back or you can buy one that you'll drag around a lot, and use the side port to plug it in that... ?
all external hard drives come with usb cables so you're looking at like 1.5 inch clearance on the left side ...
front panel ports are horrible in terms of aesthetics. you get a clean, unbroken front panel, even when you have things plugged in.
"smaller cases are better for thermal management"
do you even know wtf you're talking about.
sorry i'll clarify
larger cases means you have larger areas of unrestricted airflow. you also have a lot more room for hot air to expand in before the air gets hot enough to negatively affect the system thermals. your fans can also be positioned optimally, away from cables and other restrictive structures, and they can run more quietly because you have a lot more leeway before the air gets too hot.
in a small, restricted case, you're really, really rarely dealing with a perfect airflow situation. more often than not you'll get a lot of turbulence. alongside the need to get rid of the hot air more quickly (because you don't have the air headroom), you have to deal with your unoptimal air venting because you'll have tons of turbulence from the case components pushing the air in directions you don't want it to go to. so you'll have to run your fans higher in order to get the air out (and they were already high because you need to get it out more quickly anyways).
you have exactly the same volume of hot air you need to exhaust (technically incorrect but i'll ignore it for the sake of argument because i dont want to get into the math). you only have less room in which that air can exist in, so your air doesn't have the space to expand, which means it heats up more quickly, and you need to get it out more quickly. which you can't do because the airflow is restrictive.
|
On August 09 2013 05:41 Blisse wrote:
lol hdmi cables are definitely not standard anywhere at all. it's really a "premium thing" which is complete bullshit. lots of dvd/bluray players don't include. ps3 didn't include one to begin with.
power brick's a bit annoying, but it means the psu isn't in the case which helps with heat. and hopefully a brick would have a longer cable than standard ac power cords, which is fair. hopefully it isn't proprietary though.
huge case is for cooling - heatsink space and breathing room. they're trying to avoid the rrod issues and they want it to last 10 years, so it better run cool. not sure why you would want something ridiculously small anyways. it's around what you see for dvd players, and it's really not even that big...
idk what's the problem with 2 usb ports on the back, but the usb port on the side would be useful if you want to plug'n'play external hard drives, and it's a lot more out of the way than having it in the front.
not sure what you keep ripping on stealth. it's exactly the same with the ps4, except the ps4 doesn't even have anything else.
the problem with hdmi cables is cause the majority of consumers have no clue how to differentiate between 480p and 720p, lots of people still don't have nice monitor/tvs that actually make it worthwhile to have a high resolution. it's exactly the same reason why people buy shitty monitors to use with their $300 graphics card. it's not worth it for a manufacturer to take another 10-20 dollar loss for basically zero change for the average consumer. it's only been the last 1-2 years where youtube's really stepped up its 720p and 1080p delivery and that has had such a dramatic effect on the way people look at video (even through a mediocre display) that people are paying more attention now.
This is a console developed for HD content in a very rapidly growing HD TV market. In 2005, almost nobody had an HDTV... and for good reason. There was no HD content. Live TV wasnt HD, bluray wasnt really used, and it was hugely expensive (even HDMI cables then were expensive, I think they were like $25-30+). By 2008 25% of america had one. 2012 we are already up to 49% of americans having an HDTV. We have tons of HD content on live TV, through bluray, through internet on our TV, and through the console which is running at 1080p. On top of that, the cables costs are down to less than $4/piece and even cheaper for mass buyers like MS. Releasing a 1080p console (that is supposed to last 10 years, remember almost 50% of the market has hdtv in LESS than 10 years) without an HDMI cable is just dumb... because you cant do 1080p without it (AFAIK).
I dont care that the PS3 didnt have it when it was released... HDMI cables were EXPENSIVE back then.
Having USB ports on the back and none on the front is dumb because you can hide them pretty damn well on the front. For one thing, if you get a play-and-charge adapter so you dont burn through batteries, you lose a foot of cord space because it is in the back and not the front. It is a hassle for such a minor aesthetic.
|
PS3 slim and new xbox 360 don't come with them at least my slim didn't and i don't think the 360 s comes with hdmi cables. Those editions came out what 2009-2010?
|
On August 09 2013 09:36 semantics wrote:
PS3 slim and new xbox 360 don't come with them at least my slim didn't and i don't think the 360 s comes with hdmi cables. Those editions came out what 2009-2010?
xbox 360 is mostly 720p content and while the ps3 does feature 1080p it is an old console that didnt originally come with it. Also, as you say these were released in 2009ish when the penetration for HDTV was still around 25% instead of closer to 50%. Again, these consoles are also forward looking... 5 years down the line it might be 75% of the market with an HDTV. How silly would it be to make a console that will last 10 years and not include a cheaper than $4 cable in a $500 console?
|
um, you do realize still the vast majority of monitors, dvd players, bluray players, graphics cards, anything mass produced video related today don't include hdmi cables? your argument doesn't hold up.
they're not including the hdmi cable because it's required for 1080p output. they're including it because they want to, and it makes sense to. and i'm pointing out the ridiculousness of the idea that they want to, because it should never have gotten to the point where including the hdmi cable or not should be in discussion.
and like i said (which is more of a side rant than anything), the priority on display quality has been absolutely fucking awful for the last 10 years. it's a race to the bottom for whoever can get the cheapest displays out on the laptops/desktops. there's no pressure on any manufacturer to care about including an hdmi cable to support 1080p because the majority of 1080p that's output is to a shitty display, so whatever gains you get by having a higher resolution (which is none. it's about the quality of the picture and not upscaling) is negated by the display. and not only that, hdmi cables are becoming like ac power cords or usb cables. everyone just has some lying around.
back on track..
there's a side usb if you want to use it... i'm not sure why you guys keep completely ignoring that...
and you're not supposed to "hide" it in the first place. that's sloppy. having a cover is completely backwards in terms of aesthetics, as is trying to display raw inputs. actually, raw input is preferable if you can find a way to work it visually.
in any case, you still have a side usb port so i'm not sure what your complaints are since you keep ignoring that...
|
Why would a monitor include HDMI? DVI is just as good. DVD isnt HD, why would a GPU include cables? I dont know about bluray players (what cables are included with a bluray player? composite/component? None?)
In regards to side USB port: It is just one. People have multiple controllers. Also, I imagine that would be the most convenient port for mass storage. I also generally hate side ports because it then requires you to leave 2" of space between devices.
|
On August 09 2013 10:05 TheRabidDeer wrote:
Why would a monitor include HDMI? DVI is just as good. DVD isnt HD, why would a GPU include cables? I dont know about bluray players (what cables are included with a bluray player? composite/component? None?)
In regards to side USB port: It is just one. People have multiple controllers. Also, I imagine that would be the most convenient port for mass storage. I also generally hate side ports because it then requires you to leave 2" of space between devices.
Bluray only connect by HDMI and they are 100% sold separately.
|
Like I said before, if you use a portable external hard drive, you would connect to the side which is convenient. If you use a regular external hard drive, you would just leave it plugged in the back.
The point with the cables is, one of those should include cables. Monitor supports all outputs. Provides vga/dvi cable. Graphics card goes up to display port. Includes no cables. It's a standard to not include hdmi cables. Good point about not needing to provide anything other than dvi, but there's really no real incentive to provide hdmi cables from any manufacturer unless they want to.
I have no clue why there's only 1 usb port "near" the front. Because it seems like they were promoting the microusb portion of it (wired + wireless), but then I don't see how two players can both be wired at the same time. hm. I'm beginning to think that the microusb is just for playing on your computer or something. weird. i can't believe they wouldn't have thought, "how are they going to plug in their controllers".
|
5930 Posts
huge case is for cooling - heatsink space and breathing room. they're trying to avoid the rrod issues and they want it to last 10 years, so it better run cool. not sure why you would want something ridiculously small anyways. it's around what you see for dvd players, and it's really not even that big...
If you look at the engineering sample of the Xbox One, the heatsink space is absurdly small compared to the console. The heatsink itself is no better than any low profile cooler from Thermalright or Noctua, which is good but you get the point. These are consoles using APUs. This isn't a gaming desktop so restriction between components is not a problem at all.
RROD isn't a problem at all because APUs don't have any real power draw to speak of and they should know how to use lead free solder by now. Their claim about it lasting 10 years is laughable because if they believed their console really could last 10 years they'd offer more than one year warranty on the product. Its just a silly boast that is meant to give console warriors some ammo.
The design of the Xbox One is really obvious. Its meant to be a similar size to all of your home theatre equipment and the whole system is very open to deal with the inevitable issue that is dust. Then USB ports are at the back because you're meant to attach portable storage to it and forget.
With a big open downdraft heatsink design, you don't have to worry so much about dust because it'll still be able to cool itself with incidental airflow. This also means it'll stay quieter for longer. The only problem is that it might struggle in hot ambient temperatures and cramped spaces.
Either way, we're talking about netbook CPU cores + a HD7790. You don't need very much to cool that and its not going to kick out a lot of heat either. I still don't know why they couldn't use an internal PSU since the power draw of this machine is going to be tiny and good PSUs are easily attainable these days.
|
Most of the problem with RROD was heating but not the heating of cpu and gpu but the surrounding components due to the oem's processes they were subpar once microsoft forced revisions to correct this rrod is a rare occurrence but it did take them what 3 years? which is pretty shitty.
The heatsink in the engineering sample was like 1/4th the console which is big, xbox 360 newer ones is all fan space and duct work and ps3 uses a large low profile fan under the case but not much heatsink volume
|
5930 Posts
Which was a problem related to lead-free solder and a rushed launch. Microsoft knew about this problem well before launch, don't pass the blame to the OEMs.
On August 09 2013 11:05 semantics wrote:
The heatsink in the engineering sample was like 1/4th the console which is big, xbox 360 newer ones is all fan space and duct work and ps3 uses a large low profile fan under the case but not much heatsink volume
Indeed that's true but what I'm saying is that the design isn't really aimed towards decreasing failure rates. The idea is to decrease noise because the whole console is designed to be something you shove in your home theatre cabinet. We're talking about Jag Cores + a mid range GPU and not a power hungry CPU and discrete GPU. You can probably passively cool that system in an environment with low enough ambient temperatures. I don't expect the PS4 to be much louder either, if you've seen how they cooled the Cell and RSX.
|
On August 09 2013 10:59 Womwomwom wrote:Show nested quote +huge case is for cooling - heatsink space and breathing room. they're trying to avoid the rrod issues and they want it to last 10 years, so it better run cool. not sure why you would want something ridiculously small anyways. it's around what you see for dvd players, and it's really not even that big... If you look at the engineering sample of the Xbox One, the heatsink space is absurdly small compared to the console. The heatsink itself is no better than any low profile cooler from Thermalright or Noctua, which is good but you get the point. These are consoles using APUs. This isn't a gaming desktop so restriction between components is not a problem at all. RROD isn't a problem at all because APUs don't have any real power draw to speak of and they should know how to use lead free solder by now. Their claim about it lasting 10 years is laughable because if they believed their console really could last 10 years they'd offer more than one year warranty on the product. Its just a silly boast that is meant to give console warriors some ammo. The design of the Xbox One is really obvious. Its meant to be a similar size to all of your home theatre equipment and the whole system is very open to deal with the inevitable issue that is dust. Then USB ports are at the back because you're meant to attach portable storage to it and forget. With a big open downdraft heatsink design, you don't have to worry so much about dust because it'll still be able to cool itself with incidental airflow. This also means it'll stay quieter for longer. The only problem is that it might struggle in hot ambient temperatures and cramped spaces. Either way, we're talking about netbook CPU cores + a HD7790. You don't need very much to cool that and its not going to kick out a lot of heat either. I still don't know why they couldn't use an internal PSU since the power draw of this machine is going to be tiny and good PSUs are easily attainable these days.
my issue is that these things will get absurdly hot after 3-4 years of use when there's a lot of dust in them, even if it's just an apu. they probably run a good 4-5 hours at a time at maximum power in 1080p, so i don't think it's exactly accurate to say they're not going to put out a lot of heat and that you don't need very much to cool that (even though you really don't need that much). it'll be cool(ish) only for the first few years of its life, which is why i think they're not lying when they say they want it to last 10 years when they're trying to minimize the heat issues this much. i actually do think they expect this to at least go 7-8 years before refreshing, then 2-3 years of scaling down to nothing.
i'm OK with an external brick because if it'll provide even slightly better thermals then it's worth it. the largest footprint isn't really that much of a bother since we just dump things in the back anyways. i don't think it's reasonable for anyone to provide 10 years customer service though, especially when the numbers of the x1 users are going to be upwards of tens of millions, so providing warranties that long would be even less profitable than consoles already are (even if it looks good). i meant rrod issues as in they don't want any other heating related issues, not exactly that heating was the exact cause of the rrods. and the ambient and cramped issues exist for every system. one day... these consoles will provide dust covers XD
but yeah, the biggest reason we're talking about the space appears to really just be fan noise. i was just pointing out that a case with more room for air to expand isn't going to get as hot as quickly. incidentally that also means you don't need to run fans as fast, in turn making it quieter. and it looks like there was a bigger focus on making it quiet and cooler this time around, even though you disagree that the thermals couldn't get out of hand, which i believe it could after 3-4 years.
|
ah
fuck you too microsoft. so much wasted time defending them. i'm this close to buying a ps4 because microsoft's a pussy. jesus.
http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/08/05/ask-microsoft-anything-about-xbox-one
kinect no longer required to be plugged in for x1 to work.
pathetic. the whole point of the kinect was that the kinect made it unique - same as how the wiiu has a built in tablet in the controller, the wii has motion remotes, the kinect would have an insanely accurate camera, and we can have some progress into integrating motion and voice control with our games. nope, not anymore.
i'm trying to look for my quote where i told ms to screw themselves if they took out the kinect. they're almost there...
edit: here it is
On June 21 2013 16:32 Blisse wrote:+ Show Spoiler +(Fuck you Microsoft if you make a non-Kinect XB1)
sigh. if they sell the x1 without the kinect at all, then i have no words for their inability to stop sucking. i mean, all of this is based on the premise they know what they're doing, and then they retract their own vision? srs.
|
Saw on BBC that you can't stream without the 60$ thing for xbox. It's like they are the best advertisers for PS4.
|
On August 13 2013 13:04 On_Slaught wrote:
Saw on BBC that you can't stream without the 60$ thing for xbox. It's like they are the best advertisers for PS4.
Can't online multiplayer on ps4 unless you pay $50 bucks a year for ps+ vs $60 a year for xbox live gold. I see it as splitting hair unless you have like 3 4 xbox ones in the same house
|
Hmm their built in Game DVR feature that allows you to record your moments in-game only records at 720p and 30fps. Cmon at least make it 1080p, ffs we're arldy at 2160p with the newest TVs. In a couple years 1080p is going to become the norm and 720p is going to be a crappy quality.
|
On August 13 2013 13:15 semantics wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 13:04 On_Slaught wrote:
Saw on BBC that you can't stream without the 60$ thing for xbox. It's like they are the best advertisers for PS4. Can't online multiplayer on ps4 unless you pay $50 bucks a year for ps+ vs $60 a year for xbox live gold. I see it as splitting hair unless you have like 3 4 xbox ones in the same house
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23613754
Says that Sony will charge to play online multiplayer games but says you do NOT have to pay for recording and streaming videos like you do with the Xbox. That's the only thing I was talking about in the original post. In the end they are all greedy fucks.
|
On August 13 2013 13:28 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On August 13 2013 13:15 semantics wrote:On August 13 2013 13:04 On_Slaught wrote:
Saw on BBC that you can't stream without the 60$ thing for xbox. It's like they are the best advertisers for PS4. Can't online multiplayer on ps4 unless you pay $50 bucks a year for ps+ vs $60 a year for xbox live gold. I see it as splitting hair unless you have like 3 4 xbox ones in the same house http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23613754Says that Sony will charge to play online multiplayer games but says you do NOT have to pay for recording and streaming videos like you do with the Xbox. That's the only thing I was talking about in the original post. In the end they are all greedy fucks.
You can only stream to ustream on ps4 and devs can turn off recording as they please with the game.
|
the issue with the 1080p is that you're looking at about 2x bigger file sizes if you record in 1080p versus 720p. that's huge. maybe if in the future they figure out a way to output directly to your external (which might be slow (not sure about usb 3.0 here), def. slow on usb 2.0), but 720p is reasonable. you have to understand there are limits to technology lol.
also, like i said before, some people will find a way no matter what to bash microsoft. rofl.
my issue right now is kinda how sony's just not announcing anything until microsoft does (technically twitter announced but whatever), and then it seems like they'll announce the same thing, except somehow "better" to 1up microsoft. i mean, it's a good strategy to fuck over your competitor, but it's kinda disappointing how they don't actually lead with anything. well, not disappointing, rather annoying really.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
