EPTThe XBox Thread - Page 174
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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Epishade
United States2267 Posts
On June 20 2013 10:08 AnomalySC2 wrote: They still are lol. They know that the vast majority of people will still be always online with their xbox, and getting that kinect cam into your house is top priority. Why is the kinect cam so important? So they can spy on you? | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
On June 20 2013 10:36 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Something tells me think that MS is not done with DRM almost as if they are putting this on the back burner till later. Yeah me too. Also... what about all the crap they said to defend their policies now hehe ?  Anyway doesn't change anything for me since PS4 is still cheaper and I liked PS3 more than 360 (due to exclusives, due to having a good computer). But at least I'm happy for XBox fans that were thinking about switching over and are now satisfied. Why is the kinect cam so important? So they can spy on you? If a society ever develops a system able to guess even little things about someone that is in front of its TV (age, corpulence, gender), it will make a fortune due to targeted advertisement. It doesn't even have to be remotely recorded, just local analysis by the machine of images to guess some stuff and feed the advertisement by correlating guessed information with the program being watched. Maybe while they probably don't plan it specifically for the XB1 there may be some research being made with it. It's tin foil hat-ty but it's at least a possibility of the future, not necessarily this machine. Another more likely thing may be to steal some of the casual market which likes fancy stuff like the kinect and the wii. By putting kinect in many homes they assure themselves that their product is widespread and has a lot of exposure. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19298 Posts
XBOX no longer requires internet, allows full trades. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On June 20 2013 10:36 DrakanSilva wrote: Have you ever heard about Used books ? Used Cars ? Second Hand clothing ? Paintings ? And many kinds of Art pieces ? Seriously, what in hell are you saying dude... They are and they will always be the intellectual property of somebody, but at the moment you have a contract that gives you the OWNERSHIP of that product, that product is YOURS. That is why slavery was abolished, because they were selling PEOPLE, not THINGS. So yeah, you have the right to do WHATEVER YOU WANT when you buy something, or at least until the point of not trespassing another person freedom. Do you guys (who are arguing about intellectual property) not understand the difference between property and intellectual property? or have you really missed the last 10 years of the debate between differentiating owning data and owning a physical object... Also I can't believe you're bringing in slavery to defend your point LOL slavery wasn't abolished because of that... Also, do you guys not understand how to differentiate between what a company is supposed to officially say, and what is actually meant? Of course the only way you can tell the public that you're rolling back changes is to say you took in the feedback. It doesn't mean you're supposed to actually believe that... In all honesty the opinion of the consumer about their product (who is obviously dumb in many, many ways) really doesn't matter to a company (because companies aren't as dumb as you guys love to think about). | ||
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
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publicenemies
458 Posts
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FromShouri
United States862 Posts
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semantics
10040 Posts
On June 20 2013 10:46 fuzzy_panda wrote: Atleast Microsoft doesn't brick your console every update like sony. What is it PS3: patches 4.45, 4.40, 4.21, 3.70 3.55, 3.41, 3.21, 2.40 and 3.0 - 3.01. All had a small to medium chance of bricking your console. Not even mention Play-station Network's stellar stability and security.Hmm I still don't trust Microsoft. Apparently this will be implemented with a Day 1 patch. If it's THAT easy to implement and take off, who knows maybe sometime down the road they'll reintroduce it. That coupled with Kinect, nah fuck that. Still sticking with PS4. Sure Microsoft has more exclusives atm, but looking at the past history Sony usually have more varied, better exclusives both in quality and quantity. None of the exclusives shown at the moment interest me except Forza. This image made me lol + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://fbcdn-sphotos-e-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/196490_490085711068175_1529676678_n.jpg) | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
Still absolutely not getting this. I have no faith in their direction. | ||
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Blisse
Canada3710 Posts
On June 20 2013 13:48 Brett wrote: Well, Blisse, I posed a number of questions in my last post, so perhaps you could answer them so that I understand your position more clearly since this is definitely not a legal debate on property vs intellectual property concepts. Well all your questions were IP versus Property questions except possibly the one about music/movies, in which case I believe the music industry has already stated that you don't own the right to distribute your music among your friends. It's just that there's no format for them to enforce, and I believe they've tried to enforce it but mp3 won out anyways, so yeah I don't know how your questions even relate to this discussion, because PC gaming has always had these same "you can't trade your games" restrictions. Again I saw absolutely no problems with the DRM system they had in place because most of it has been how PC gaming has worked. And now because of the backlash we won't be able to see how it would've turned out i.e. whether any of the effects of trying a Steam like system would actually be profitable to consumers, and turning off the online activation check means we're not advancing our technology/development with the assumption that we will always be online - an assumption that is going to be true in the future for the majority of the planet that should even consider getting a gaming console. I don't see a problem with DRM unless it gets in my way, and it only gets in my way if someone's actively trying to screw with me (see: Diablo 3), or if someone in charge fucks up in which case you kind of need some big fuck ups to learn lessons in working in new territories (see: Simcity). On June 20 2013 14:03 FromShouri wrote: Totally blisse...totally. I mean between Windows 8, Surface Tablet, and now them admitting they were wrong after pissing off countless people and even firing people within microsoft they clearly aren't as stupid or arrogant as we think. Nothing's wrong with Windows 8 except for the Start Button, and honestly I'm using Windows 8 without the Classic Shell mod to add the start button and it's absolutely fine ... and the Surface tablet has always been a concept design, not a laptop replacement... and it works well as a general purpose light workstation replacement (the pro, not the rt). I'm not saying Microsoft's not bad at stuff. I'm saying the consumer always highly over-estimates how dumb Microsoft is and how smart they are in comparison. If you wanted failures you should've named RT and Vista. As for the admitting they were wrong, see my previous post, and if you're talking about firing the Orth guy, I think people concluded it was because he broke NDA, not because of bad press... (even though it was probably related to it). | ||
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Brett
Australia3822 Posts
E: changed use of real property as it is misleading in the legal context. | ||
Jibba
United States22883 Posts
People keep bringing up Steam, but before Steamworks games came out, PC games had the exact option Microsoft says they can't do. If you wanted to share discs with your friend, then you bought the disc version of the game. If you wanted convenience and a cheaper price, you bought it from the Steam store. Why does lifting the restrictions on disc-based games stop them from doing all the things they want to do with downloaded games? In fact, they'd probably win over everyone if they actually did the price thing, and would have a much easier time phasing out disc-based games. Disc sales drop, used game supply decreases, used game cost goes up, plus used games have a shorter lifetime than something tied to your account. Or you add some DLC code or something that's only for the first purchase, to further incentivize buying from the equally low-priced online store. | ||
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rezoacken
Canada2719 Posts
I have no idea. | ||
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fuzzy_panda
New Zealand1681 Posts
On June 20 2013 14:05 semantics wrote: Atleast Microsoft doesn't brick your console every update like sony. What is it PS3: patches 4.45, 4.40, 4.21, 3.70 3.55, 3.41, 3.21, 2.40 and 3.0 - 3.01. All had a small to medium chance of bricking your console. Not even mention Play-station Network's stellar stability and security. You're right, Xbox 360 only had the red ring of death that killed 3 of my mate's Xboxes | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
What Microsoft was trying to do was to make the console market more similar to the PC market by restricting the sale of used games. Ask yourself why console games tend to be more expensive than PC games. Why haven't Gamestop and EB and Amazon and developers and publishers competing brought prices down to the level they are on PC? Why can't console games have PC-like pricing? The main difference is resale and the fact that Gamestop and EB leeches money that they simply do not deserve. They are the real winners here, the losers are console gamers who will have to pay higher prices. And now we return to disc-based games, a relic from last decade which is quickly becoming obsolete. As I had previously explained, the 24 hour check-in was required to prevent people from getting access to every Xbox One game for free or at a significantly reduced price, and every company and platform, including Sony, uses DRM to restrict this. So with this flip-flop, what DRM have Microsoft employed instead? Downloaded titles cannot be shared or resold. Also, similar to today, playing disc based games will require that the disc be in the tray. Source: http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update Requiring the disc to be in a drive is an antiquated artifact from PC gaming circa 1999, which has been rejected by even some Xbox One haters. PC gaming eventually got over this phase, to emerge more efficient, cheaper and better for gamers. It looks like console gamers will continue to remain stuck in the past a while longer. The fact is that most people have no problem with the internet. Indeed, the most popular games like LoL and WoW are internet and social games. Have fun paying high prices for console games and propping up the current inefficient status quo. A status quo where a sizable proportion of the money that gamers spend goes to leeches like Gamestop and EB, businesses that are unnecessary and add little to no value to the games, businesses that deserve nothing, instead of going to developers. I have no horse in this race because I play PC games, nearly all of which are online, but the loser of Microsoft's cowardly and pathetic flip-flop is ultimately the console gamers. | ||
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NightOfTheDead
Lithuania1711 Posts
On June 20 2013 15:26 paralleluniverse wrote: So Microsoft is too spineless to stick up for their principles and have decided to u-turn on their DRM policies. They've jumped on the bandwagon with a mob of irrational, short-sighted, and economically-illiterate gamers on the internet (oh so they do have access to the internet!) who are stuck in the past. What Microsoft was trying to do was to make the console market more similar to the PC market by restricting the sale of used games. Ask yourself why console games tend to be more expensive than PC games. Why haven't Gamestop and EB and Amazon and developers and publishers competing brought prices down to the level they are on PC? Why can't console games have PC-like pricing? The main difference is resale and the fact that Gamestop and EB leeches money that they simply do not deserve. They are the real winners here, the losers are console gamers who will have to pay higher prices. And now we return to disc-based games, a relic from last decade which is quickly becoming obsolete. As I had previously explained, the 24 hour check-in was required to prevent people from getting access to every Xbox One game for free or at a significantly reduced price, and every company and platform, including Sony, uses DRM to restrict this. So with this flip-flop, what DRM have Microsoft employed instead? Requiring the disc to be in a drive is an antiquated artifact from PC gaming circa 1999, which has been rejected by even some Xbox One haters. PC gaming eventually got over this phase, to emerge more efficient, cheaper and better for gamers. It looks like console gamers will continue to remain stuck in the past a while longer. The fact is that most people have no problem with the internet. Indeed, the most popular games like LoL and WoW are internet and social games. Have fun paying high prices for console games and propping up the current inefficient status quo. A status quo where a sizable proportion of the money that gamers spend goes to leeches like Gamestop and EB, businesses that are unnecessary and add little to no value to the games, businesses that deserve nothing, instead of going to developers. I have no horse in this race because I play PC games, nearly all of which are online, but the loser of Microsoft's cowardly and pathetic flip-flop is ultimately the console gamers. Are you that naive? What does region locking your fucking CONSOLE accomplish in this your far-sighted future? Does PC has that? What does locking your whole library of single player games accomplish, if you want to play them offline, taking it like a laptop away from internet for example? | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On June 20 2013 14:43 Jibba wrote: Is it just me or is it disingenuous of Microsoft to say that they have to drop the new features (like sharing, account tied games and lower prices) because of the change in DRM to disc-based games? Since when are those entirely dependent upon each other? People keep bringing up Steam, but before Steamworks games came out, PC games had the exact option Microsoft says they can't do. If you wanted to share discs with your friend, then you bought the disc version of the game. If you wanted convenience and a cheaper price, you bought it from the Steam store. Why does lifting the restrictions on disc-based games stop them from doing all the things they want to do with downloaded games? In fact, they'd probably win over everyone if they actually did the price thing, and would have a much easier time phasing out disc-based games. Disc sales drop, used game supply decreases, used game cost goes up, plus used games have a shorter lifetime than something tied to your account. Or you add some DLC code or something that's only for the first purchase, to further incentivize buying from the equally low-priced online store. Yeah, let the game be tied to the account so that people can resell the game or lend the disc while you still have full access. Genius. Yes, they have to kill these features. | ||
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paralleluniverse
4065 Posts
On June 20 2013 15:31 NightOfTheDead wrote: Are you that naive? What does region locking your fucking CONSOLE accomplish in this your far-sighted future? Does PC has that? What does locking your whole library of single player games accomplish, if you want to play them offline, taking it like a laptop to away from internet for example? This has got nothing to do with region locking and always online (which Xbox One isn't). So try again. | ||
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